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You must have been cheated then. My 2016 MacBook Pro is a wonderful modern device with better CPU performance than most of much larger workstation laptops, connects to display, power and a bunch of other accessories with a single cable and has a very comfy, ergonomic keyboard. Very strange.
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There is talk of Apple updating the MacBook Air in some way and the i5-8250u cpu is the perfect upgrade for it. Some rumours have it delayed till October in time for college students and there may even be a retina screen in the offing but the keyboard and old usb 3 ports (and lack of pricey touchbar) will surely herald a stampede of purchases if it gets a quad core CPU.

The successor of the MBA will most certainly have dual-core Cannon Lake. Which is the most likely reason why it got delayed.
 
Hello, got a MBP 2017 13" yesterday. The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use. Then, I needed to add an ugly big adapter to connect to the the display. Next, I could not find an usb port to connect a dongle for external keyboard. I guess adding all these adapter makes the overall laptop clumsy, heavier and more ugly looking. The current MBP should be pat of the MBA. Apple really scre*wed our MBP. JI mentioned that he listens to our complains and we hope that Apple would bring us a better keyboard next month. How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters? What they are doing is scramming us to spend money on products that should have included. They changed their product line for people who prefer eye candy over functionality.

I guess I have wasted over 2.5 years waiting for nothing. Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?

Why would you need a dongle for an external keyboard? Use a BlueTooth one, as the machine has BT in it. The machine also indeed has USB ports, just not the old "legacy" USB-A ones, but rather the newer, current USB-C ones.

There is no likelihood that Apple is going to put back USB-A ports or a separate display port; USB-C ports handle everything now.
 
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The only way to fix the MBP is to make it thicker. But Apple will never do this. So the product line is a non-starter.

We need to wait for the CEO to be changed.
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Your thread title's still wrong: First it was "Post 2014 MBPs should be called MacBook Air' which you seemingly changed, and now it's '2015-2016...' - surely you mean the 2016-2017 MBPs?

Somebody pointed out my mistake. I will change it to 2016-2017 then.
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Why would you need a dongle for an external keyboard? Use a BlueTooth one, as the machine has BT in it. The machine also indeed has USB ports, just not the old "legacy" USB-A ones, but rather the newer, current USB-C ones.

There is no likelihood that Apple is going to put back USB-A ports or a separate display port; USB-C ports handle everything now.

My logitech keyboard and mouse use unifier usb device.
 
You must have been cheated then. My 2016 MacBook Pro is a wonderful modern device with better CPU performance than most of much larger workstation laptops, connects to display, power and a bunch of other accessories with a single cable and has a very comfy, ergonomic keyboard. Very strange.
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The successor of the MBA will most certainly have dual-core Cannon Lake. Which is the most likely reason why it got delayed.

That would be the other way to do it, but do you not find it slightly regressive that Apple would wait for a Cannon Lake CPU to update a range that looked set to go the way of the 2012 MacBook Pro (ie into a semi retirement zombie state to fill a low price point) which only went off sale when the 2016 MacBook Pros came in?

If the MacBook Pro 2016-17 keyboard debacle continues into a third year with the 2018 models can you imagine the pent up demand for sales of a 2018 MBA regardless of CPU?
 
If you are unhappy with the product, then you should definitely return it and reward your money to the competition who does meet your needs. That's the only way Apple will listen. Otherwise, if you blindly hand over your cash, no matter what atrocity Apple foists on you, they have no motivation to change. Make Apple earn your purchase, don't be a doormat.
 
We need to wait for the CEO to be changed.
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Somebody pointed out my mistake. I will change it to 2016-2017 then.
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My logitech keyboard and mouse use unifier usb device.

Not sure what that is, but rather than fool with a dongle, why not replace those with a mouse and keyboard that both use BT -- no dongle, no "unifier device" needed..... Looks much nicer, too, and saves the USB-C port for something that does need to be plugged in.
 
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If the MacBook Pro 2016-17 keyboard debacle continues into a third year with the 2018 models can you imagine the pent up demand for sales of a 2018 MBA regardless of CPU?
My guess would be that any updated MBA will also have the butterfly keyboard design.

Not sure what that is, but rather than fool with a dongle, why not replace those with a mouse and keyboard that both use BT -- no dongle, no "unifier device" needed..... Looks much nicer, too, and saves the USB-C port for something that does need to be plugged in.
The OP knew all these "issues" before he "purchased" his new MBP... he's been unhappy with Apple for months. The OP just wanted to start his own "let's bash Apple" thread. :rolleyes:
 
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My guess would be that any updated MBA will also have the butterfly keyboard design.


The OP knew all these "issues" before he "purchased" his new MBP... he's been unhappy with Apple for months. The OP just wanted to start his own "let's bash Apple" thread. :rolleyes:


How likely will those traditional usb and video ports on the Air be gone when released later this year?

No. I am trying to see if up-coming products will have those ports back. If not, I should start looking somewhere ASAP.

Apple is not worth my time to bash anymore. I may not even buy their product until TC is gone.
 
That would be the other way to do it, but do you not find it slightly regressive that Apple would wait for a Cannon Lake CPU to update a range that looked set to go the way of the 2012 MacBook Pro (ie into a semi retirement zombie state to fill a low price point) which only went off sale when the 2016 MacBook Pros came in?

Oh, I agree. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that MacBook Air is ever going to be updated. That line is dead. It hasn't got any updates since 2015, and it never got updated to Skylake or Kaby Lake.

What I think will happen is that the MBA will get completely dropped and we will have a new low-priced laptop instead, most likely called "MacBook". This would allow Appel to go back to its historical successful duo of consumer (MacBook) and a prosumer (MacBook Pro) lines, while maintaining clear capability difference between them: the MacBook will be a dual-core, super-efficient, hyper-mobility device with only USB 3.2, while the MacBook Pro will be a quad/hexa-core model, ultra-mobile and offer pro-level connectivity via thunderbolt.

If the MacBook Pro 2016-17 keyboard debacle continues into a third year with the 2018 models can you imagine the pent up demand for sales of a 2018 MBA regardless of CPU?

Since Apple's laptop sales are as strong as ever and only getting stronger, I don't really think that there is much of pent up demand. Whoever wants a Mac still gets an Mac, and whoever wants to switch, switches. Despite all the outrage at the forums, Apple's position in the computer market is not getting any weaker.

Still, I am at a loss why they haven't announced a warranty extension for keyboard-related problems yet. It would be a powerful publicity move and wouldn't cost that much. Data we have puts actual keyboard failures at around or sub 3%, which is high — but not that high. Certainly nothing to warrant a total recall like some are asking for, but more then enough to warrant a 5 year warranty on this particular item.
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No. I am trying to see if up-coming products will have those ports back. If not, I should start looking somewhere ASAP.

Then you should really start looking around ASAP, since they are not the only ones switching to modern ports. Dell, Lenovo etc. all have computers that either partially or completely move to the modern USB standard. Wait for too long and you won't be able to find anything at all. Its 2018. You are complaining about lack of ports that haven't received any updates for the last 10 years. At some point its going to be time to move on.
 
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How likely will those traditional usb and video ports on the Air be gone when released later this year?

No. I am trying to see if up-coming products will have those ports back. If not, I should start looking somewhere ASAP.

Apple is not worth my time to bash anymore. I may not even buy their product until TC is gone.

I don't believe Apple has ever put something back after removing it, so my guess is you're out of luck. Apple are more likely to discontinue the Air line altogether, or put in the new keyboard, usb-c, and headphone jack a'la the MacBook line if they do anything.

The entire laptop line is too fragmented currently, there are just too many sku's.

Current MacBook Air starts @ 999.00 - Currently underpowered, screen is lacking. The only upside (to some) are a couple of ports and the keyboard. IF Apple were to give this machine a retina screen, usb-c instead of -a, etc then you are looking at a price increase (all about money, right?).

Current MacBook starts @ 1299.00 - 1x USB-C port (two would be nice), but it has the Retina display, and is ridiculously portable. This is the machine that should be (and quite possibly could be) the next "MbA".

Current MacBook Pro starts @ the same 1299.00 - Starts with 2x USB-C, but lowly storage (128gb).

One could argue that unless you really need the storage space, that the entry level MbP is the way to go (keyboard not withstanding). Faster processor, faster ssd, better video, and 2x usb-c ports.

And that, in an nutshell is how Apple are able to up-sell people into the MbP line even if they don't fit the "definition".
 
You’ve had it one day!
The keyboard keeps sucking for more than a day, my friend. I myself gave it a month and it was still terrible. I'm far from the only one who thinks this.
I guess you didn’t notice that the machine has a display already attached (and connected internally)?
Have you heard of external displays before? It's this thing they have now where you can connect your laptop to a separate display, to use in addition to the one that's built in. I think that's what the OP was posting about, but your answer was very helpful anyway.
It also has a keyboard built in and “attached” but if you need a USB port, there are four of them—two on each side.
Ohh, is that what those holes are? Thanks so much for stopping by to help out!
 
Have you heard of external displays before? It's this thing they have now where you can connect your laptop to a separate display, to use in addition to the one that's built in. I think that's what the OP was posting about, but your answer was very helpful anyway.

Indeed. Indeed. I need an external display.
 
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Oh, I agree. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that MacBook Air is ever going to be updated. That line is dead. It hasn't got any updates since 2015, and it never got updated to Skylake or Kaby Lake.

What I think will happen is that the MBA will get completely dropped and we will have a new low-priced laptop instead, most likely called "MacBook". This would allow Appel to go back to its historical successful duo of consumer (MacBook) and a prosumer (MacBook Pro) lines, while maintaining clear capability difference between them: the MacBook will be a dual-core, super-efficient, hyper-mobility device with only USB 3.2, while the MacBook Pro will be a quad/hexa-core model, ultra-mobile and offer pro-level connectivity via thunderbolt.



Since Apple's laptop sales are as strong as ever and only getting stronger, I don't really think that there is much of pent up demand. Whoever wants a Mac still gets an Mac, and whoever wants to switch, switches. Despite all the outrage at the forums, Apple's position in the computer market is not getting any weaker.

Still, I am at a loss why they haven't announced a warranty extension for keyboard-related problems yet. It would be a powerful publicity move and wouldn't cost that much. Data we have puts actual keyboard failures at around or sub 3%, which is high — but not that high. Certainly nothing to warrant a total recall like some are asking for, but more then enough to warrant a 5 year warranty on this particular item.
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Then you should really start looking around ASAP, since they are not the only ones switching to modern ports. Dell, Lenovo etc. all have computers that either partially or completely move to the modern USB standard. Wait for too long and you won't be able to find anything at all. Its 2018. You are complaining about lack of ports that haven't received any updates for the last 10 years. At some point its going to be time to move on.

By calling a model 'MacBook' I think you're placing it below the Retina MacBook that already exists, although that product line looks a little in question because the suitable CPUs for that haven't been announced by Intel yet either. It might be that the incoming Cannon Lake SKUs include versions that go down to 5w and don't require a fan. We won't know, but the main bugbear for me is those models only sport a single USB-C port (not even Thunderbolt or even USB3 Gen 2 for 10Gb/s speed). I reckon this is because of the potential power drain from having more ports - the power situation is that specific.

If you rebrand the MacBook Air as a non Retina device, how can it sit beneath a *less powerful CPU* in a product called the Retina MacBook which has a retina screen (albeit 12")?

In the face of a lack of a suitable replacement i5 15w Iris Graphics CPU for the non touchbar Apple could go with the i3-8109u which has Iris Graphics but remains dual core, 4 threads but is a higher power 28w CPU. It might briefly confuse by having a higher clock speed than but at least the decent onboard graphics are in and the MacBook Pro case is the same size so could in theory handle the cooling profile.

Apple price for profit - remember there's no other official Mac provider in town. There's nothing wrong with that, and they make a decent margin on their profits. There's just a small but vocal community of us who want a product to meet our own needs - although a keyboard that works reliably would be nice. ;)
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I don't believe Apple has ever put something back after removing it, so my guess is you're out of luck. Apple are more likely to discontinue the Air line altogether, or put in the new keyboard, usb-c, and headphone jack a'la the MacBook line if they do anything.

The entire laptop line is too fragmented currently, there are just too many sku's.

Current MacBook Air starts @ 999.00 - Currently underpowered, screen is lacking. The only upside (to some) are a couple of ports and the keyboard. IF Apple were to give this machine a retina screen, usb-c instead of -a, etc then you are looking at a price increase (all about money, right?).

Current MacBook starts @ 1299.00 - 1x USB-C port (two would be nice), but it has the Retina display, and is ridiculously portable. This is the machine that should be (and quite possibly could be) the next "MbA".

Current MacBook Pro starts @ the same 1299.00 - Starts with 2x USB-C, but lowly storage (128gb).

One could argue that unless you really need the storage space, that the entry level MbP is the way to go (keyboard not withstanding). Faster processor, faster ssd, better video, and 2x usb-c ports.

And that, in an nutshell is how Apple are able to up-sell people into the MbP line even if they don't fit the "definition".

If this year is about going all retina, Apple can do that by eliminating the last 21.5" iMac non retina SKU - it's been on the cards since the first 5k iMac landed. It would leave the Macbook Air as the remaining product unless it too is going retina when it gets refreshed.

The existing MacBook Air must have been surprisingly popular to even get rumours about a spec bump as opposed to becoming resigned to be a zombie product. It's cheaper, has ports that were eliminated from the 2016 and 2017 products, retains Magsafe, an SD port, and a reliable keyboard. The 13" screen is the weakest part of the MBA and if that is addressed it would make a refresh a compelling product for people on a budget - so why would they potentially undermine the non touch bar MacBook Pro?

Perhaps the sales bump is comprised of people who felt the various iterations of the 13" MacBook Pro were too expensive because it included a gimmick touch bar they didn't see the point of. The non touch bar versions were then underpowered and lacked ports - just 2 Thunderbolt 3, and that reduced to 1 when you were plugged in for charging.

Funnily enough, I just checked the 8th generation Coffee Lake CPUs and it appears the 2018 13" MacBook Pros could have 4 full speed Thunderbolt 3 ports because they come with 16 PCIe lanes (as opposed to just 12 lanes forcing 2 of the ports on the 2017 7th Generation Kaby Lake variants to be half speed).

Even the i3-8109U could support 4 full speed Thunderbolt 3 ports if they choose to use it in a product.

I'm in agreement that there's too many SKUs going on for MacBooks, but with a simple price cut across the board due to maturity of technology, optional removal of the touch bar, and a few extra ports (even if they were all Thunderbolt 3) for the lower end MacBook Pros they could afford to eliminate the MBA by closing the gaps and reducing the starting storage on the Retina MacBook.
 
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By calling a model 'MacBook' I think you're placing it below the Retina MacBook that already exists ...

I'm not. I fully expect a new cheaper macbook or whatever it will be called to have a retina screen.

... although that product line looks a little in question because the suitable CPUs for that haven't been announced by Intel yet either. It might be that the incoming Cannon Lake SKUs include versions that go down to 5w and don't require a fan.

The first Cannon lakes to be released are supposed to be the Y-Series (ultra low-power), this has been known for quite some time (there are also leaks).

We won't know, but the main bugbear for me is those models only sport a single USB-C port (not even Thunderbolt or even USB3 Gen 2 for 10Gb/s speed). I reckon this is because of the potential power drain from having more ports - the power situation is that specific.

I cannot claim familiarity with that area of engineering but I can't imagine ports having any impact on power draw. Most likely there were space concerns and they needed the space for something else. Personally, I think that the singe USB port is just silly. One really needs two.

If you rebrand the MacBook Air as a non Retina device, how can it sit beneath a *less powerful CPU* in a product called the Retina MacBook which has a retina screen (albeit 12")?

Again, I don't think there will be a rebrand. I expect the MBA just to die. And the dual-core low-power Cannon Lake is not going to be less powerful then the 15W CPU in the current MBA. Its going to have next-gen graphics, which means being close to what Kaby Lake/Coffe Lake offer, and an improved architecture, not to mention wider vector units (not a game-changer for usual office work, but a neat 30-50% boost for computation-intensive workflows when compiled appropriately).
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The existing MacBook Air must have been surprisingly popular to even get rumours about a spec bump as opposed to becoming resigned to be a zombie product.

All these rumours are simply products of lazy journalism. The original rumour never spoke about "upgraded MacBook Air". It was about a model that is supposed to "replace" the MacBook Air.
 
New products with issues. Slightly change things and call it an update or improvements. Customers continue to buy the next improved ones. Apple’s way of doing business under TC.

To be fair, these types of things were also done during Steve “You’re Holding it Wrong” Jobs’ reign. This is nothing new.
 
Interesting, I found that I am typing on my MBP 2010 17" rather than on a brand new computer. In fact, I only used the MBP 2017 for about 15 minutes yesterday and never use it again.
 
As @jlc1978
Also general advice -- Anyone who is thinking of making any Hackintosh should spend A LOT of time at https://www.tonymacx86.com, and I mean A LOT OF TIME. Read through as much of the tutorials, recommendations, and support request threads as you can (especially after an OS update comes out and breaks some compatibility)... and decided if thats really what you want. Some might enjoy the work and tinkering, and others might want to invest their time elsewhere.

I've done a hackintosh before...it's a thousand times easier getting a decked out laptop with tons of RAM and a really good CPU and then running Mac OS in a virtual machine...people have images for download that will basically start right up in a VM via Windows 10.
 
"2016-17 MBPs should be called MacBook Air."

I've seen those MBPs. I own a Macbook Air. That ^^^ is in my opinion an insult to the MacBook Air. :D:D:D:D:D

As this discussion has noted, the MBA line hasn't quite died yet. I think that's because, although it's not on the bleeding edge of tech, it provides enough power, features, portability, and durability to meet the needs of countless computer users. I love my old 11" MBA. I have a rMBP, but nevertheless I also want a new/refurb 13" MBA. IMO it's still an elegant machine after all these years. I doubt that a new "improved" version will, despite having more computing power, seem like an improvement to me. Just my two cents, YMMV.

Look, I know the tech world is moving on and USB-C is the new thing. I just don't need to hop on that train yet. When I do, I'm sure the marketplace will have caught up and I won't need a stinkin' USB-C adapter for everything.

In the meantime, I shall defend the honor of the MBA. When I think about it. ;)
 
Hello, got a MBP 2017 13" yesterday. The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use. Then, I needed to add an ugly big adapter to connect to the the display. Next, I could not find an usb port to connect a dongle for external keyboard. I guess adding all these adapter makes the overall laptop clumsy, heavier and more ugly looking. The current MBP should be pat of the MBA. Apple really scre*wed our MBP. JI mentioned that he listens to our complains and we hope that Apple would bring us a better keyboard next month. How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters? What they are doing is scramming us to spend money on products that should have included. They changed their product line for people who prefer eye candy over functionality.

I guess I have wasted over 2.5 years waiting for nothing. Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?

What are you thinking about getting? I'm in the same boat. Very disappointing with the new offerings
 
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....Despite all the outrage at the forums, Apple's position in the computer market is not getting any weaker.
The big tragedy.

Then you should really start looking around ASAP, since they are not the only ones switching to modern ports. Dell, Lenovo etc. all have computers that either partially or completely move to the modern USB standard. Wait for too long and you won't be able to find anything at all. Its 2018. You are complaining about lack of ports that haven't received any updates for the last 10 years. At some point its going to be time to move on.
You make it sound as if the other manufacturers behave dictatorially like Apple. They don't.
Dell still offers the traditional XPS 13 with all the ports along with the USB-C only model.
Lenovo offers a whole of choices as well. In short, they do not impose on their customers like Apple does. There is a reason why they don't. If they do, customers will simply hop on to the next manufacturer. Apple can and will do so in the future because of the monopoly it has on OSX.

In the computer hardware industry, user interface decisions are not taken lightly. I recall a situation with Lenovo when they faced a furore over they changing the shape of the arrow keys on one of their Thinkpad models. They reverted it in the next update.

With Apple, they had the 'courage' to remove the physical 'Esc' key along with the rest of the function keys and offer it as the only choice to its customers who have been entrenched in the Apple ecosystem for decades! So, in my view, the visceral reaction to their new MBPs on this forum is justified. They need to stop treating their customers like doormats.
 
The big tragedy.


You make it sound as if the other manufacturers behave dictatorially like Apple. They don't.
Dell still offers the traditional XPS 13 with all the ports along with the USB-C only model.
Lenovo offers a whole of choices as well. In short, they do not impose on their customers like Apple does. There is a reason why they don't. If they do, customers will simply hop on to the next manufacturer. Apple can and will do so in the future because of the monopoly it has on OSX.

That is the key. As long as yo want OSX you will have to live with Apple's offerings. MS took a different tack in deciding to focus on the OS/Software and leave the hardware to others; but both strived for, and achieved lock in so the they keep you in their ecosystem.

With Apple, they had the 'courage' to remove the physical 'Esc' key along with the rest of the function keys and offer it as the only choice to its customers who have been entrenched in the Apple ecosystem for decades! So, in my view, the visceral reaction to their new MBPs on this forum is justified. They need to stop treating their customers like doormats.

They have no reason to, given their success. As tehy move further and further away from making computers to selling the entire ecosystem (video/audio/home control/ health / fitness / phone / tablet) you will probably see less diversity in the computer product line.
 
You make it sound as if the other manufacturers behave dictatorially like Apple. They don't.

Never claimed they did? o_O Just pointing out that as a technology, USB-A has reached its end of development. It has been superseded, for all intends and purposes, by USB-C. And as time passes by, less and less computers will offer USB-A ports — just like it was with old now obsolete technologies like parallel and serial ports.

In short, they do not impose on their customers like Apple does. There is a reason why they don't. If they do, customers will simply hop on to the next manufacturer. Apple can and will do so in the future because of the monopoly it has on OSX.

[...]

In the computer hardware industry, user interface decisions are not taken lightly. I recall a situation with Lenovo when they faced a furore over they changing the shape of the arrow keys on one of their Thinkpad models. They reverted it in the next update.

Because the average user — just as an average human — is rather reactionary and doesn't want change, since it entails momentarily discomfort. Apple has been using their unique position to implement such change on large scale. They did it with the original USB (Apple computers are first to go USB-only, for which they were heavily criticised — just like now), ultra-thin computers, floppy drives and optical drives, retina displays etc. All of these things were controversial.

With Apple, they had the 'courage' to remove the physical 'Esc' key along with the rest of the function keys and offer it as the only choice to its customers who have been entrenched in the Apple ecosystem for decades! So, in my view, the visceral reaction to their new MBPs on this forum is justified. They need to stop treating their customers like doormats.

Except function keys have been obsolete on OS X/macOS for ages and no application that follows the Apple design guidelines is supposed to rely on the function keys, not to mention that Fn keys are not straightforward to use on a Mac to begin with (since they require a modifier key per default). This "oh my god, they took my function keys" just because you use some obscure software whose devs didn't get a memo years ago is beyond silly. Why should one keep a key bar thats only used by few programs that can't be bothered to implement proper UI aka. shortcuts?
 
Never claimed they did? o_O Just pointing out that as a technology, USB-A has reached its end of development. It has been superseded, for all intends and purposes, by USB-C. And as time passes by, less and less computers will offer USB-A ports — just like it was with old now obsolete technologies like parallel and serial ports.
Oh right. I might have misunderstood you when you asked a member to look around ASAP. I agree that USB-A ports have been technically superseded by USB-C ones but they are still not mass market and neither are they cheap. Hell, the USB-C port can even replace HDMI ports but again, it is not a great idea at this time to do so.

Because the average user — just as an average human — is rather reactionary and doesn't want change, since it entails momentarily discomfort. Apple has been using their unique position to implement such change on large scale. They did it with the original USB (Apple computers are first to go USB-only, for which they were heavily criticised — just like now), ultra-thin computers, floppy drives and optical drives, retina displays etc. All of these things were controversial.

Except function keys have been obsolete on OS X/macOS for ages and no application that follows the Apple design guidelines is supposed to rely on the function keys, not to mention that Fn keys are not straightforward to use on a Mac to begin with (since they require a modifier key per default). This "oh my god, they took my function keys" just because you use some obscure software whose devs didn't get a memo years ago is beyond silly. Why should one keep a key bar thats only used by few programs that can't be bothered to implement proper UI aka. shortcuts?
I see what you are saying. And this is why I could, although begrudgingly, accept the USB-C transition. I am going to hate it but I will live.

Touchbar, not so much. Function keys are very much a part of my life since I am a developer. OSX itself has a few shortcuts that involve the function keys. And the software I am talking about is not obscure.

But more importantly, the touch bar also forces you to look down at your keyboard whereas before I could have simply accomplished my task with a shortcut, without the need to look down at the keyboard. That is a massive break in any touch typists' workflow. This is worse than the touch screen on Windows laptops cause at least you are still looking at the screen and not hunting for a control on a thin stripe of a display above the keyboard.

And the best of all, although anecdotal, is when I used my mate's MBP typing out a memo we were all working on, the touchbar crashed when working on Pages. It was blank! That was hilarious! Our only option then was to restart the laptop. Granted this was a bug and probably would be fixed. But still. Is there a possibility that a rogue app could kill the touch bar?

In my view, the touchbar should have come only to the external keyboards and perhaps as an optional add-on to the MBP. At least this way, we would have had a choice.
 
Not sure what that is, but rather than fool with a dongle, why not replace those with a mouse and keyboard that both use BT -- no dongle, no "unifier device" needed..... Looks much nicer, too, and saves the USB-C port for something that does need to be plugged in.
Well my personal answers to that would be:

1) unnecessarily replacing something that works is just adding to humanity's waste problem.

2) actually my own (Apple) USB keyboard provides me with 2 additional USB-A ports, which I use for an additional 2 devices I always use in the office. A BT keyboard won't do that, so I'd be either replacing them as well or using another adapter/dock for them.

One person's solution isn't always everybody's.

Ironically one of the reasons I have that particular external keyboard was because of an earlier Apple "design" decision: to only include 2 USB-A ports on a 15" Macbook Pro (2010), and place them so close together that using any but the smallest periperals in one of them would block the other - something they seem to have replicated in the current 13" non-TB model, where the 2 ports are also very close together (though the lack of separate display and power ports makes that arrangement pretty paltry anyway: if you are only providing 2 ports in total, put them on opposite sides so someone can attach a dock to one without blocking the other). I understand the move to USB-C, and am not complaining about that, but I do wish Apple would remember that good design involves usability as well as aesthetics.
 
Good design and usability do go hand-in-hand, and they do with Apple products when the user actually uses them in the way that was intended. That is, when purchasing a computer with BT capabilities it just seems to make sense to go ahead and take advantage of being able to get rid of at least one cable by eliminating the need to plug in one's keyboard or mouse -- especially when there are a limited number of ports on the machine or if in order to plug something in an adapter is required. The OP was complaining because his Logitech devices and their "unifying device" can't be plugged in to a USB-A port on the new Apple computer he had just bought. Well, Apple didn't design the machine to be used with Logitech devices! Reality is that they designed it to be used either with the machine's own keyboard and trackpad or with Bluetooth external devices such as their own BT external keyboards and BT mice.
 
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