2017 MacBook Pro is Up to 20% Faster Than Last Year's Model in Benchmarks

[vipergts2207]

Just tested, my base 15 Late 2016 Intel Core i7-6700HQ @ 2.60 GHz beats the new 2.8 model:
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/3054143
Am I missing something?

​

Yeah, the guy who wrote the article used averages going all the way back to the launch of the 2016 model. Apple has likely optimized the software since launch and thus the article's values are underreported from what someone would actually see. Most people are seeing around 6-8% difference. While not nothing, not exactly earth shattering as the headline would seem to imply.

 

[iChrist]

I'm so glad I bought mine six months ago when it previously took them three years to update.... what a slap in the face...

somebody call the waaahmbulance.

1. You bought a rev A product
2. That product was using the same chips as the old model

And yet you still act surprised and whine.

Sadly, what Apple really needed to do was drop the price back to the original tiers from the $400 bump they added. But they were probably scared of a bunch of babies calling them and complaining. Thanks a lot.

 

[vipergts2207]

somebody call the waaahmbulance.

1. You bought a rev A product
2. That product was using the same chips as the old model

And yet you still act surprised and whine.

Sadly, what Apple really needed to do was drop the price back to the original tiers from the $400 bump they added. But they were probably scared of a bunch of babies calling them and complaining. Thanks a lot.

Huh? 2015 MBP's were Haswell. 2016 were Skylake.

 

[truthertech]

His machine is suddenly worth a lot less money. You always have a chance of getting screwed if the next update is a lot faster, but it's even more extreme this time because Apple also took forever to update to Skylake but went to Kaby Lake quickly.
[

This is the imaginary problem that some people let ruin their sense of satisfaction for no reason. You aren't getting "screwed," and it is meaningless to say "it's suddenly worth a lot less money", unless you bought it with the intent to hold on to it for a few months and then sell it, which applies to no one. People bought the previous version and undoubtedly planned on using it for a minimum of two or three years; thus the only thing some people "suddenly lost" was their sense of satisfaction with a cool new product for no reason. You have to change your thinking if you want to be happy in life.

 

[iChrist]

Huh? 2015 MBP's were Haswell. 2016 were Skylake.

Yes sorry, but similar performance. Even Kaby Lake isn't a big jump. It's impossible to notice unless you are constantly pegging your system.

Hopefully this fall they do the price drop. No one want to pay extra for some useless touch bar.

 

[sudo1996]

This is the imaginary problem that some people let ruin their sense of satisfaction for no reason. You aren't getting "screwed," and it is meaningless to say "it's suddenly worth a lot less money", unless you bought it with the intent to hold on to it for a few months and then sell it, which applies to no one. People bought the previous version and undoubtedly planned on using it for a minimum of two or three years; thus the only thing some people "suddenly lost" was their sense of satisfaction with a cool new product for no reason. You have to change your thinking if you want to be happy in life.

It's money, not satisfaction. When you buy a laptop that you're going to sell within 1-3 years, every update makes it worth less depending on how big an update it is, so you really don't want to buy right before a refresh since that'll increase the likely number of updates before you sell. And if that refresh also comes with a large performance improvement, that's even worse. Also, I don't know how many people sell after a few months, but people in my family often buy <1 year old used Macs, so someone must be selling them.

The other thing is the faster the hardware is, the more incentive there is for Apple and devs to write heavier software. So if you're keeping your Mac for many years, it does get less and less useful (and becomes worth less) as other hardware that you don't own gets faster. Look at Photoshop CS3 system requirements vs Photoshop CC, keeping in mind they're basically the same thing, or Google Hangouts vs iChat AV. People on this forum love to say "your Mac doesn't just stop working," except it kinda does.

 

[Ploki]

Yes sorry, but similar performance. Even Kaby Lake isn't a big jump. It's impossible to notice unless you are constantly pegging your system.

Hopefully this fall they do the price drop. No one want to pay extra for some useless touch bar.

actually... I tried it in the store, and for pro apps (especially Logic) its incredible useful. If it had 32GB RAM i'd get it in a heart-beat, but as it is, its a marginal upgrade to my 2012 maxed out rMBP. (for my needs, CPU is marginally better, and I already have 16GB RAM)

 

[iChrist]

actually... I tried it in the store, and for pro apps (especially Logic) its incredible useful. If it had 32GB RAM i'd get it in a heart-beat, but as it is, its a marginal upgrade to my 2012 maxed out rMBP. (for my needs, CPU is marginally better, and I already have 16GB RAM)

Yes, but don't you usually use an external monitor when using pro apps? That means you have to have the laptop open in front of you to use the touch bar. Doesn't make sense to me because you can't use it all the time unless you never use a real monitor.

 

[smirking]

It's money, not satisfaction. When you buy a laptop that you're going to sell within 1-3 years, every update makes it worth less depending on how big an update it is, so you really don't want to buy right before a refresh since that'll increase the likely number of updates before you sell.

It's turning out that the actual difference is around 6%. If you're losing sleep over this, you should just buy a PC that you can upgrade at any time.

So if you're keeping your Mac for many years, it does get less and less useful (and becomes worth less)

This used to be ridiculously true back when the difference between a computer bought now and one only 2 years down the road was often a doubling or better in real performance, but that hasn't been the case in quite some time now. I replaced a 2012 Unibody with a maxed 2016. The difference isn't night and day. In fact, I need a stopwatch to be assured that my 2016 really is more than a bump up.

It's a significant bump up from my 2012, but it's not paradigm shifting. I could comfortably still be using my 2012 to do my software development work if I needed to.

By hanging onto a machine for over five years, I've saved more money than I would have if I kept selling and buying a new one everytime I felt like there was a better model available and because it's performed capably all this time, I probably actually even saved time too because you can't discount the amount of time and effort it takes to switch to a new system, especially when you need all 2TB of storage space as I do. Ok, actually my 2012 is actually a bit more than the original machine. I upgraded to a Samsung 850EVO SSD, which is very fast. Not as fast as the MBP's SSD, but more than good enough.

 

[sudo1996]

It's turning out that the actual difference is around 6%. If you're losing sleep over this, you should just buy a PC that you can upgrade at any time.



This used to be ridiculously true back when the difference between a computer bought now and one only 2 years down the road was often a doubling or better in real performance, but that hasn't been the case in quite some time now. I replaced a 2012 Unibody with a maxed 2016. The difference isn't night and day. In fact, I need a stopwatch to be assured that my 2016 really is more than a bump up.

It's a significant bump up from my 2012, but it's not paradigm shifting. I could comfortably still be using my 2012 to do my software development work if I needed to.

By hanging onto a machine for over five years, I've saved more money than I would have if I kept selling and buying a new one everytime I felt like there was a better model available and because it's performed capably all this time, I probably actually even saved time too because you can't discount the amount of time and effort it takes to switch to a new system, especially when you need all 2TB of storage space as I do. Ok, actually my 2012 is actually a bit more than the original machine. I upgraded to a Samsung 850EVO SSD, which is very fast. Not as fast as the MBP's SSD, but more than good enough.

Yeah, that sounds perfectly reasonable if the improvement really is that small. I'd hang onto my laptops longer if they even lasted that long, but something fatal like the motherboard always breaks, or at least a lot of fixable things like the battery go bad... dunno what I do to them. My Mac Pro is holding up, given I've had to upgrade the GPU and put in an SSD for the newer versions of OS X, but I am annoyed that the SSD was necessary in the first place since the HDD was good enough for me before.

 

[agravic]

It's still too thin. Give me one with a proper keyboard, more expansion ports (you can shove dongles where the sun doesn't shine), a matte screen option and 64GB RAM and then I'd buy it. For £3k I want it to be functional not look pretty.

Very true. I am still on the 2012 model for the matte screen and the accessibility of components. And if you look at the competition, Apple prices have become just insane. In the PC world, a similar or even better equipped laptop in terms of functionality ( https://www.asus.com/us/Laptops/ASUS-ZenBook-Pro-UX501VW/ ) is 2000$ (!!!) cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, switching back to Windows would really hurt. But Apple is becoming a rich kids only Company.

 

[truthertech]

It's money, not satisfaction. When you buy a laptop that you're going to sell within 1-3 years, every update makes it worth less depending on how big an update it is, so you really don't want to buy right before a refresh since that'll increase the likely number of updates before you sell. And if that refresh also comes with a large performance improvement, that's even worse. Also, I don't know how many people sell after a few months, but people in my family often buy <1 year old used Macs, so someone must be selling them.

The other thing is the faster the hardware is, the more incentive there is for Apple and devs to write heavier software. So if you're keeping your Mac for many years, it does get less and less useful (and becomes worth less) as other hardware that you don't own gets faster. Look at Photoshop CS3 system requirements vs Photoshop CC, keeping in mind they're basically the same thing, or Google Hangouts vs iChat AV. People on this forum love to say "your Mac doesn't just stop working," except it kinda does.

Of course everyone's laptop, phone, car, etc., is worth less money year after year. And of course, over time software becomes more demanding and there are things that the 2011 iMac I own can't do as well as the ones coming out this month, that's all common sense that no one disputes, but you're avoiding the main issue, i.e., it's foolish to claim that the laptop he just bought is "suddenly worth a lot less money" unless he bought it with the intent of selling it a few months later. And no, his Mac didn't just stop working and won't for many years despite your contention. Heaven forbid, what is he/she going to feel when Intel releases the next chip in six months and heaven forbid Apple puts it in the new laptops in the beginning of the year?

Psychologists study this phenomenon and therapists help people who have extreme cases of it, where some humans can't find satisfaction/happiness because they are always feeling what they have is inadequate, i.e., they crave something, but only get a very temporary sense of satisfaction and believe there is something better that will get them that sense of happiness/satisfaction. In our materialistic societies it manifests itself in how we feel about material things.

 

[MH01]

I lost a whole $100 on mine... Yep flipped on ebay and bought the new one with received a $50 gift card from Target so the net loss was actually $50.

So you are telling me , you paid retail for it and lost $100?

Or you bought it as a business asset....blah blah and are telling me that you lost $100

Do tell.

 

[Paapaa]

Please correct me if I'm wrong:

Is the default CPU on the non-touch bar models (7360U) better in every way than the CPU on touch bar models (7267U)? It has lower TDP and higher max frequency. What is the catch here I'm missing?

 

[sebin90]

4 years old model. Still beats base 2017 model. Great job Intel

 

[sudo1996]

it's foolish to claim that the laptop he just bought is "suddenly worth a lot less money" unless he bought it with the intent of selling it a few months later. And no, his Mac didn't just stop working and won't for many years despite your contention.

The market value of an item is how much you can sell it for currently. So when I said it's worth less money, I meant you can't sell for as much. No, I didn't say it'll stop working in 6 months but that bit by bit things will stop working eventually, and hardware improvements speed that up.

 

[Wahlstrm]

Heat - the iMac quad cores put out over two to three times the heat as the Mac Mini's dual-core.

Yeah, tbh my Quad i7 mini does sound a bit like a hairdryer when pushed.
Still the best bang for buck machine ever sold by Apple thou

 

[Hoosier317]

Still happy with my 13-inch Retina (Early 2013) w/ Intel Core i7-3540M @ 3.00 GHz. No real need to upgrade yet.

The only modifications I have made are to upgrade the network card to an AC capable version to allow for unlocking with my Apple Watch. It greatly increased my speeds. 150 Mbps up and down. Couldn't be happier!

 

[macintoshmac]

While I'm happy you enjoy the new style keyboard I could never agree with that statement. I've been typing all my life, I know keys with a long travel work best for touch typing. I shouldn't have to "get used to it" just because Apple decided their machines look cooler if they're thin. Apple should serve the needs of their customers not the customers bowing down to Jonny Ive's latest fetishism.

Cherry MX rules, I know. But, I think, it is we who are blurring the lines.

A desktop was supposed to have everything great, and a portable was a portable, with the needs that one might have when on the move. Today, we want everything from one device, and physical limitations are just not that easy to get away from.

We want desktop class graphics performance which uses a 750w SMPS or maybe more if you put a great SLI or Quattro/ Crossfire rig, then we want the best battery life as well, and we want thin and light and then long travel keys as well.

Laptops were always a balance of compromise, and when we see them in that light, these notebooks suddenly come out shining really, really bright, checking all the necessary points in a laptop.

 

[GoldenJoe]

Lucky that you'd have 4 power ports on the 2016/17, so if one goes it'll still soldier on.

Extra ports aren't going to help very much when the kids trip over the cord and the computer gets kicked to the floor. Is there a good reason you are defending this so eagerly?

 

[smirking]

Yeah, that sounds perfectly reasonable if the improvement really is that small. I'd hang onto my laptops longer if they even lasted that long, but something fatal like the motherboard always breaks, or at least a lot of fixable things like the battery go bad.

I used to upgrade about once every two years to take advantage of resale value and also dodge the worry that something would break while I was in the middle of a project and I couldn't fix it myself or get it fixed for a while. I actually stopped selling my old machines because now I'm hanging onto them for so long that they're worth more to me as an emergency backup than they are for resale value.

SSDs completely changed the equation for me. If my 5 year old 2012 Unibody is still very servicable as a backup machine and even my 2009 Unibody workable in a pinch, it's a lot less risky for me to ride my 2016 MBP to the ground and you end up saving quite a bit of time and money when you can extract every ounce of value from a laptop instead of selling it while it's still valuable.

I'm sure I'll end up on the wrong side of this bet from time to time. Perhaps my 2016 will break down 1 day after my 3 year Applecare expires and I'll kick myself for not having sold and reinvested in a new machine, but that's just the law of averages. I'd rather place the smarter bet and know that I'll lose big once in a while than to place a less risky bet that will mean I'll likely lose modestly every time.

It's like that extended warranty thing at stores that you're always advised to skip by experts. If you just banked that money, you'll probably end up having to pay some of it out to replace something, but you'll end up ahead.

 

[Ploki]

Yes, but don't you usually use an external monitor when using pro apps? That means you have to have the laptop open in front of you to use the touch bar. Doesn't make sense to me because you can't use it all the time unless you never use a real monitor.

Well when I bought the retina, all external displays were still non-retina and it annoyed me + i needed to work in many different studios (audio) and band places, so i got used to working on a laptop screen, for a second screen I just used ipad with Duet app (wired screen connection).

I do wish they made a magic keyboard with the touch bar! I'm surprised the new iMac Pro doesn't come with it. I was certain they were going for the whole range.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Cherry MX rules, I know. But, I think, it is we who are blurring the lines.

A desktop was supposed to have everything great, and a portable was a portable, with the needs that one might have when on the move. Today, we want everything from one device, and physical limitations are just not that easy to get away from.

We want desktop class graphics performance which uses a 750w SMPS or maybe more if you put a great SLI or Quattro/ Crossfire rig, then we want the best battery life as well, and we want thin and light and then long travel keys as well.

Laptops were always a balance of compromise, and when we see them in that light, these notebooks suddenly come out shining really, really bright, checking all the necessary points in a laptop.

That's certainly a well thought-out, reasoned argument (on Macrumors, I know!) but I'm not talking about desktop class performance; just a nice keyboard, the 2015 MacBook Pro was fine and I don't see how crippling the keyboard with shallow "butterfly" switches just to shave a mm or less off the depth of the machine makes things better.

 

[macintoshmac]

That's certainly a well thought-out, reasoned argument (on Macrumors, I know!) but I'm not talking about desktop class performance; just a nice keyboard, the 2015 MacBook Pro was fine and I don't see how crippling the keyboard with shallow "butterfly" switches just to shave a mm or less off the depth of the machine makes things better.

I am sure a healthier compromise could have been struck. I imagine, Jony wanted to shave it just a wee bit more, but then he figured he will have to put out a touchscreen keyboard if he wanted to go thinner than this today.. Oh well, next refresh it is..

 

[WatchFromAfar]

I am sure a healthier compromise could have been struck. I imagine, Jony wanted to shave it just a wee bit more, but then he figured he will have to put out a touchscreen keyboard if he wanted to go thinner than this today.. Oh well, next refresh it is..

I do have a theory about the lack of love for decent keyboards from Apple. The way Apple sees it the majority of their users are iPhone/iPad users; devices with no keyboards. They figure if these people are happy stabbing away on glass then traditional users should be thankful that Apple provides any type of keyboard at all. Oh well..