2018 MacBook Pro Has 'Quieter' Keyboard, But Unclear if Sticky and Unresponsive Key Issues Addressed

[Rogifan]

The sad part is, their keyboards used to be great - rock solid, reliable, a joy to type on. They sacrificed an existing fantastic design, and the only thing they seem to have gained is the ability to make the machine a few millimeters thinner, which nobody outside of Apple is asking for.
[doublepost=1531443163][/doublepost]They're facing several class action suits over the previous design. If they say "this one breaks less", not only does it make them look bad in general, the attorneys in the class action suits will point to the relevant interviews, press release, and videos, and say, "Your Honor, we'd like to submit these as exhibit A, B, and C."

Thus, we won't really know if it's better until several thousand of them have been in customer hands for several months.

Source?
[doublepost=1531448617][/doublepost]

No duh it’s not in their interest to sell faulty hardware. Has anyone actually said that it was or is that just your preferred straw man? Do you think Ford intentionally designed Pinto gas tanks to explode when rear-ended? Obviously not, it was just a design flaw, same as the MBP keyboards. I’m glad you said John Gruber has it right though, because it actually hits many of the same notes I did...

Gruber didn’t say there was a design flaw. He’s saying if there was one it would be in Apple’s interest to not admit it and just fix it. That’s what I’m agreeing with. One, we don’t know if the keyboard issue was a design flaw with the butterfly mechanism. If Gruber’s rumor is true the issue was with a metal alloy in one of the parts used. That’s something Apple could fix without telling anyone. Two, even if there was a design flaw Apple wouldn’t admit it for obvious reasons. At the same time it seems highly unlikely they would release brand new models without fixing the issue. I get that people still have concerns about the keyboard but perhaps they should wait for reviews before assuming the problem hasn’t been fixed.

 

[fpsBeaTt]

The issues existed on my 2016 model, not my 2017. If these keyboards are even further improved and refined, then I couldn't be happier.

 

[greenmeanie]

Well if the poster above us isn't lying you probably urinated on it while using it in the bathroom

I just wish the keyboard backlight on my 2017 Pro didn’t turn yellow...

 

[Gameboy70]

The butterfly mechanism isn't the problem. The standalone keyboards use them. I like the feel of the newer external keyboards a lot.

The problem with the MBP (and rMB) keyboards is there is like... NO

As someone who despises butterly keyboards, I have to disagree that the low travel is the main culprit.

First, AFAIK, the only external keyboard with butterly switches is the one for the iMac Pro. The Magic Keyboard uses scissor switches.

I endured two years with the 2015 12" MacBook, then four months with the 2017 13" MBP before finally switching to a 2015 15" MBP. I struggled with stuck and repeating keys on both butterly models. But the thing that drove me insane was the larger footprint of the keycaps, which wreaked havoc with the muscle memory I've built up over decades of typing. I kept trying to convince myself that I'd get used to it after enough use, but that never happened.

I thought I'd hate the Magic Keyboard based on my experience with newer Apple keyboards, but while it does have low travel, the keycaps are the same width as the older keyboards, so hopefully, Apple will eventually integrate that design into their laptops—maybe even in this lifetime.

 

[Marconelly]

I can’t be sure until I try the 2018 model, but I think the keyboard replacement program is putting these gen 3 keyboards into older MBPs now. They replaced my whole 2017 MBP keyboard (whole top case actually) due to a single key press not registering, and the new keyboard is noticeably more quiet.

 

[LV426]

This tiny, tiny fraction of the MacBook Pro user base has had his keyboard replaced twice.

 

[MareLuce]

I opted for a silicone keyboard cover to help quiet the keys. Definitely made a difference, but it's still consierabley louder then the previous generation keyboard.

which one did you purchase?

 

[mountainman3520]

This tiny, tiny fraction of the MacBook Pro user base has had his keyboard replaced twice.

Same here. I have a late 2016 MBP 15" that was ordered during the initial release hence backordered and had to wait a few months. But it was an early unit in the new model production. It was a custom configuration with upgraded CPU and GPU so maybe that is a factor in failure rate. It also seems to run hotter due to these upgrades, compared to my wife's baseline model that has not had keyboard issues. I suspect the added heat of the upgraded features is a trigger.

Within a few months I had horrible key squeaking, squishiness, sticking, missing, and double hitting. It was easily reproduced, particularly when the laptop was warm such as from running graphics.

Apple replaced this keyboard with another gen 1 keyboard which lasted about 6 months before deteriorating in the same way.

Apple replaced the second keyboard with a gen 2 keyboard that I'm using now. It's much better and still working well after 6 more months. It does still occasionally miss or double hit but its rare and tolerable. No more weird key sound or feel, yet.

Other than that I generally dislike the feel and sound compared to my prior MBP 15. But I can live with the feel and sound it if it will just work reliably.

Note that I'm a meticulously clean person. No food ever comes near this computer. I clean and dust it frequently. There's nothing more anyone could do to keep a laptop clean other than seal it in plastic or not use it. So people who have attempted to connect this keyboard design issue with sloppy use are completely mistaken.

 

[dwaite]

[keyboards failing, bad press, multiple class action lawsuits, worldwide recall program active]
Apple: “Oh let’s make the clicks quieter”

Except the keyboard hasn't been recalled, and apple being targeted by lawyers is way more common than rain.
[doublepost=1531467977][/doublepost]

Until Apple comes out and says "here is what the problem was and here is how we fixed it" I'm not buying it.

Just be prepared to wait a very, very long time
[doublepost=1531468508][/doublepost]

I had 4 defects right out of the box. I don’t eat around my expensive MacBook Pro.

My first one would double hit “H” or not register it at all right out of the box. I was wondering why my password wasnt matching up until I typed on forums.


The rest had issues when heated up (such as gaming) would result in keys not working or getting stuck.

This was from 2016 MacBook Pro to 2017. I returned my 4th and waited out till now and will see if they fixed it now (which I would assume they did since they made aware of the issue).

I don't think either of these are the issues people have been complaining about. Most of the complaints have been about mechanical failures after months of use.

 

[Hustler1337]

Don't be a slob around your $2000 device and it shouldn't be an issue.

It's absolutely gross how people treat their digital devices. "I'm gonna take this phone in the bathroom, touch it after touching the toilet seat or lid which gets toilet water splashed on it every time it's flushed then sits in a humid environment where germs multiply, play on this phone then put it in my pocket when I'm done, where it's also warm and the germs multiply further, then stick that phone against my face and mouth when it rings."

Dude, what numpty takes their MacBook Pro to the toilet?

 

[dwaite]

The worst part: I am toting around a Bluetooth external keyboard because I know my newly replaced laptop keyboard will crap out in a few months. That is PATHETIC.

This confuses me - you are carrying around a bluetooth keyboard and using it instead of your functional laptop keyboard? Or you are carrying it around because you worry your laptop keyboard will spontaneously and completely fail while you are away from your home?

 

[antonis]

Where is the evidence this is a design issue vs a malfunctioning part? Nobody but Apple knows. The only thing we can assume is it’s not in Apple’s interest to sell products with hardware they know is going to fail. Even if we assume for the sake of argument that it was a design issue, from a legal standpoint admitting that would cause all sorts of trouble.

There is no evidence for this, but not for the opposite as well.
The fact, though, that there are issues from MB 12" from 2015 to newest laptops from 2017 (but sold in 2018 as well) is an indication (not a proof) that it is not a mere malfunctioning part that could be recalled and changed easily.

 

[Burger Thing]

You must be uninformed about the keyboard problem. As someone else correctly pointed out, Apple didn't initiate a repair program for the MacBook Pro keyboards because people who are "slobs" abused their computers. If that was the main reason for the keyboard problems people have experienced, Apple would've continued to tell people that they need to have AppleCare+ in order to have coverage for user-caused accidents. Instead, Apple launched a repair program for the keyboards. Apple doesn't launch a repair program unless they've looked at the data and concluded that there is a flaw they need to address.

He is not uninformed. He is... ah... different...

Just look at every thread something even remotely controversial comes up and look who responds usually immediately on page 1.

Yupp. Him. And usually all his responses are rather cringe worthy.

 

[macpodman]

FYI: all of the complaints about the keyboard online and in the lawsuits are anecdotal. Nobody has provided actual numbers that would prove that there's some sort of widespread mechanical problem. Apple's own repair program is completely generic and applies to pretty much any type of keyboard problem, minor or major. I think the tech media needs to drop the huffing/puffing about this issue for the time being and wait for some actual numbers. No doubt Apple could provide them for the discovery portion of a lawsuit.

Surely therein lies the condundrum. You need the lawsuit to force Apple to reveal the numbers of faulty keyboards.

 

[amegicfox]

Apple should make the MacBooks lighter and with a real working keyboard, not thinner

On a laptop the weight is a problem, the thickness not so much

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Dude, what numpty takes their MacBook Pro to the toilet?

Once went in to the bathroom at a very large Fortune 500 company to take a wiz. I'm at the urinal when I hear a sound coming from the one toilet stall. "What's that noise?", I think, trying to identify it. Then I realize. It's typing. Someone brought their laptop into the toilet and it typing away while crapping.

 

[Rogifan]

Until Apple comes out and says "here is what the problem was and here is how we fixed it" I'm not buying it.

Then you’ll never be buying one as Apple is never going to do that.
[doublepost=1531487509][/doublepost]

There is no evidence for this, but not for the opposite as well.
The fact, though, that there are issues from MB 12" from 2015 to newest laptops from 2017 (but sold in 2018 as well) is an indication (not a proof) that it is not a mere malfunctioning part that could be recalled and changed easily.

We don’t know and Apple will never say. I’m sure a lot of would be buyers will wait for reviews. But no doubt we’re going to see a lot of stupid YouTube ‘reviews’ where people intentionally muck up the keyboard in a way that would make any keyboard fail so they can claim Apple didn’t fix the problem.

 

[Hustler1337]

Once went in to the bathroom at a very large Fortune 500 company to take a wiz. I'm at the urinal when I hear a sound coming from the one toilet stall. "What's that noise?", I think, trying to identify it. Then I realize. It's typing. Someone brought their laptop into the toilet and it typing away while crapping.

I can't comment on common cubicle behaviour of Fortune 500 companies, but for the most part, hardly anyone 'normal' takes the MacBook Pro to the toilets.

Now that you say it, maybe it's for this very reason Apple added a new 'quieter' keyboard....

 

[Siannath]

... according to people that earn their living by sh___ on Apple.

This is why we can't have nice things.

I really do not understand how people can blindly defend some company.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[MacBH928]

These flimsy options should be on the macbook AIR lineup. The PRO lineup should not have paper thin keys, 1 port type, dead quite, thinner than magazine body case. It should be a PRO machine on the GO.

The extended warranty for faulty keyboards applies to 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pros only (and other gen MacBook models).

Or have Apple extended the programme to include 2018 models? If so, at launch, that is an indication nothing has really changed with this keyboard.

call me paranoid, but I rather not have to send my computer with its soldered storage and personal data to computer experts to store, open up, fiddle with it, fix it, seal it and send it back for few days/weeks.

 

[La Plata]

Apple today released new 2018 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar models that feature "improved" and "quieter" third-generation keyboards, but it's unclear if issues with sticky or unresponsive keys have been addressed.

TechCrunch's Brian Heater:Heater speculates that Apple may not have had enough lead time to completely redesign the keyboard on the 2018 MacBook Pro, as despite years of anecdotal complaints, the situation only developed into a furor more recently.

iMore's Rene Ritchie is more optimistic that Apple hopefully reengineered the keyboards to have improved reliability:The Verge's Dieter Bohn, however, says the third-generation keyboard "wasn't designed to solve those issues," based on what Apple told him during a press briefing for the new MacBook Pro earlier this week.That can be interpreted in two ways: either Apple has not made any structural changes to the keyboard to address the issues outlined in its service program, or it has and doesn't want to acknowledge it on the record.

Engadget's Dana Wollman also believes, based on Apple's information, that the "stability and precision of the keys remain unchanged":MacRumors reached out to Apple for clarification, but we did not immediately receive a response. We'll update if we hear back.

For context, following years of anecdotal complaints from customers, and a few class action lawsuits, Apple initiated a worldwide service program last month, offering free repairs of 2015-and-later MacBook and 2016-and-later MacBook Pro keyboards, which have low-profile butterfly switch mechanisms.

We've already reported about the service program in more detail, but the gist is that affected MacBook and MacBook Pro models can experience issues with sticky, unresponsive, or inconsistently functioning keys when small particles like dust or crumbs get stuck underneath the shallow keycaps.

Teardowns and extended usage of the 2018 MacBook Pro keyboards should reveal whether the issues have been fully addressed.

Article Link: 2018 MacBook Pro Has 'Quieter' Keyboard, But Unclear if Sticky and Unresponsive Key Issues Addressed

[doublepost=1531494014][/doublepost]I was about to buy a Macbook Pro but this keyboard problem stopped me in my tracks.

Would a plastic keyboard cover solve the dust and crumb problem?

 

[seek3r]

Once went in to the bathroom at a very large Fortune 500 company to take a wiz. I'm at the urinal when I hear a sound coming from the one toilet stall. "What's that noise?", I think, trying to identify it. Then I realize. It's typing. Someone brought their laptop into the toilet and it typing away while crapping.

I guess if you're on a deadline... nah, still gross.

 

[jdiamond]

Don't be a slob around your $2000 device and it shouldn't be an issue...."

Minor typo - you meant to say a $7,000 device.
And since when do people eat "a single spec of dust"?

As frustrating as an unreliable keyboard is, I think it would be much less of an issue if there were an easy fix. But even with Apple's extended warranty program, you still have to send off your laptop for a week. And I can testify to all the folks who dealt with not one, but multiple failures - when you send off a Mac for repair and get a refurb part replacement, the odds are significantly higher that you get yet another failure. My record is 4 identical failures in a row, although I find 3 more common.

 

[antonis]

We don’t know and Apple will never say. I’m sure a lot of would be buyers will wait for reviews. But no doubt we’re going to see a lot of stupid YouTube ‘reviews’ where people intentionally muck up the keyboard in a way that would make any keyboard fail so they can claim Apple didn’t fix the problem.

No doubt about that. Also, no doubt we'll see youtube channels that are traditionally praising apple no matter what, claiming that the new laptops are superb and make no mention at all about whether the keyboard issues are fixed or not. Luckily, though, a potential buyer can get consulted by more neutral reviewers.

 

[Bacillus]

Once went in to the bathroom at a very large Fortune 500 company to take a wiz. I'm at the urinal when I hear a sound coming from the one toilet stall. "What's that noise?", I think, trying to identify it. Then I realize. It's typing. Someone brought their laptop into the toilet and it typing away while crapping.

I’d advise their staff to improve toilet paper distribution - to prevent the more stubborn sticky keys..