Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
2020 Formula 1 Season Thread
- Thread starter pachyderm
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I don't think the cars are too large. The idea of reintroducing stops that including refueling could add a new strategic element to a race once again. However, with the push in F1 toward becoming a more carbon neutral sport I don't see it happening. Eventually F1 will become the Ironman of Formula E, IMO. Although that is many, many , years away.
Especially given the expectations recently laid out be Mercedes and others as to what they need F1 to become if they are going to continue to participate.
I don't think reducing the size of the cars would really reduce costs that much. I also prefer the current types form and it's differentiation from say, Indy Car by design. I will admit Indy Cars do have some advantages on tight courses, and racing the past 2 years has become enjoyable for the most part, but other than COTA one can't really compare US Indy Road Courses with European F1 Tracks.
I'm still of the opinion that IMSA offers the highest level of front of the grid racing today.
Last edited:
Lewis has managed to make a arse of himself today. Posted a Bill Gates COVID-19 Anti-Vax conspiracy on Instagram. Deleted it after backlack and posted a clarification.
The clarification doesn't look great either. It boils down to "I didn't see the comment" (which is a bit stupid, but fair enough), and "I'm uncertain about the side effects", which is the entire anti-vaxxer argument.
F1 did not need its biggest star, its only black driver, and the driver at the forefront of the BLM movement in a very white dominated sport, posting anti-vax comments. 🤦♂️
The clarification doesn't look great either. It boils down to "I didn't see the comment" (which is a bit stupid, but fair enough), and "I'm uncertain about the side effects", which is the entire anti-vaxxer argument.
F1 did not need its biggest star, its only black driver, and the driver at the forefront of the BLM movement in a very white dominated sport, posting anti-vax comments. 🤦♂️
I'm not defending Lewis, as I didn't watch all the video. From what I saw, Bill was acting very uncomfortable saying a vaccine was safe while talking about side affects. So the text fixed to the video suited that.
But Lewis has a massive following & can influence people. So he should watched it all and got his facts straight before sharing it. Not the kind of publicity he needs right now.
As usual though, everything gets blown out of proportion and Lewis is now being branded an anti vaxxer. My fav comment was from a guy who claims to watched every grand prix since the 70s. He now won't watch again until Lewis stops driving. Ok, we belive you.
But Lewis has a massive following & can influence people. So he should watched it all and got his facts straight before sharing it. Not the kind of publicity he needs right now.
As usual though, everything gets blown out of proportion and Lewis is now being branded an anti vaxxer. My fav comment was from a guy who claims to watched every grand prix since the 70s. He now won't watch again until Lewis stops driving. Ok, we belive you.
If I want tips on driving around a track fast, I'll ask Lewis for his advice.
If I want to know if a vaccine is safe to take, I'm probably going to stick with the chief medical officer (doctor). I suspect he'll know very little about fast driving!
If I want to know if a vaccine is safe to take, I'm probably going to stick with the chief medical officer (doctor). I suspect he'll know very little about fast driving!
Agreed. I saw the video, it's disturbing but I mean - it's Bill Gates. Everyone seems to forget how vilified he was for stealing everyone's ideas and fighting anti trust laws for his whole time at Microsoft. Wasn't exactly a model citizen. Now he's trying to develop vaccines. Okay...
He did clear up his comments fairly quickly relative to how long he took to apologize to Marko. Maybe he's got someone helping him with that. Personally I'd rather the driver shares how he really feels instead of going dark but the world is a tough place to voice your opinions right now.
But what if you want tips about a vaccine really fast...?
When a vaccine becomes available it will be in limited supply. When it comes to the UK the first ones will be for key workers.
Then people who’s job is considered vital or important.
Then people in the higher risk health, age and ethnic groups.
Then the people in higher risk areas.
Then eventually when everyone is done it will be my turn. But I’ll certainly not turn it down!
Here's a comparison.
F1 cars have ungainly wheelbases, and are very busy. All the little bits and appendages are for aero, I can appreciate that, but the end result are not attractive cars.
High noses were novel, and looked ok in the past, but the evolution in the rules and interpretations that were so bad, even the FIA had to take action, and general likeness to Squidward was not a good thing. At least they've fixed the front/rear wing balance so they don't look like snow plows any longer.
The IndyCar DW12 began life trying to look forward, and was OK, but the bar set by the IRL cars was low. Still, the "Kardashans" were not well liked, and didn't provide any real benefit, so people were glad to see them gone.
The attempt to being some additional differentiation between the engine suppliers in the form of the aerokits was noble, but the result was overwrought, and costly, for little benefit.
The fix for that, in the form of the UAK18, resulted in one of the best looking cars since the CART days, combining modern looks with traditional cues. With the addition of the aeroscreen this year has come some unflattering angles, but it's still more palatable than if they just ran with the halo structure underneath. The new car should do a better job of incorporating those features from the start.
It can be, but many will argue that BoP plays too much of a role. And it doesn't help that the rules are continually tweaked after each event. Imagine if the 3-point line was moved in and out between games, or some teams got eight points with a touchdown, and others six points.
But BoP is a necessary evil, and hard to implement. The worst is when attempts to maintain a competitive balance are tried, but fail (hello, WEC!). However, to be fair, anyone would have a hard time trying to reconcile a full factory P1H effort versus privateers, though they do do a good job with the other classes.
My old diehard F1 fandom evolved into an appreciation for IndyCar, and its varied disciplines. Every series has stronger teams that win more frequently than the rest, but that's only really palatable is there is real competition at the front of the grid. The 80s-90s F1 had it, but lost it during the Schumacher Ferrari era, when his own teammate wasn't even allowed to race him, in the only other car that could challenge him, That's when I lost interest and drifted away.
I still enjoy IndyCar and its competitiveness, but I most look forward to the endurance races now. Daytona, Sebring, Le Mans, PLM, Bathurst, N24. Those are real tests, even more so now that they've evolved into long sprints.
IMSA is pretty good, but it's in a very dangerous position right now. The manufacturer involvement in WEC which has caused its eventual LMP1 collapse is currently in full swing in IMSA too, and they aren't doing anything about it. Both IMSA and the ACO are obsessed with having manufacturer badges, even when it costs the series the small teams. This becomes a problem with the big names leave. ACO didn't take care of LMP1, and when Audi and Porsche left they had a big problem.
IMSA is doing the exact same thing right now. Nissan never really entered, so scratch them. The Mazda is still not in a position to sell as a customer car, and they've dropped Joest as the operating team. Acura just split with Penske, citing high operating costs, and want someone else to run the car. But they still aren't selling it. So Acura is a question mark over the works team, and have no customer cars. That just leaves Cadillac.
So basically, IMSA DPi class is at the mercy of the Cadillac board. If that project goes, then DPi dies. And IMSA has separated LMP2 from DPi (because we can't have customer teams beating the badges now, can we?) which means there is no fall back plan either.
Basically IMSA is following WECs top class destruction path right now. And both series need to stop. DPi 2.0 and Hypercar solutions are not looking like good ideas as things currently stand either.
IMSA is doing the exact same thing right now. Nissan never really entered, so scratch them. The Mazda is still not in a position to sell as a customer car, and they've dropped Joest as the operating team. Acura just split with Penske, citing high operating costs, and want someone else to run the car. But they still aren't selling it. So Acura is a question mark over the works team, and have no customer cars. That just leaves Cadillac.
So basically, IMSA DPi class is at the mercy of the Cadillac board. If that project goes, then DPi dies. And IMSA has separated LMP2 from DPi (because we can't have customer teams beating the badges now, can we?) which means there is no fall back plan either.
Basically IMSA is following WECs top class destruction path right now. And both series need to stop. DPi 2.0 and Hypercar solutions are not looking like good ideas as things currently stand either.
I think one could make the argument that all forms of motor racing are in some state of peril in todays world. I've gotten back into Moto GP the last two weeks. I'd forgotten how competitive and exciting it is.
I agree, but IMSA was in trouble before COVID. It relies solely on Caddy running DPIs. That's a terrible position to be in. And the planned destruction of LMP2 class means there is no fall back. Also relies on having GTE cars (which there aren't many of now). IMSAs only healthy class is GTD, but even that relies on SRO series being healthy.
I think there is reason for IMSA to be cautious, but that is a perpetual state for sports car racing.
What does bring reason for immediate concern is how the COVID economy will impact racing budgets, but that applies to every series, and isn't unique, or confined to IMSA.
If you want to talk about a series in danger, look at the grave situation of DTM, but that's a different topic.
Looking at the various classes:
DPi - I can see the argument that it's too much of a Caddy-dominated class, but that is natural consequence of GM's approach to the series, and being the only one to sell cars. Instead of running an exclusive, full-factory effort, it had opted to support different teams, who also bring their own sponsors to bear the costs. WTR and AXR are tasked with helping with development, which gives them a bit of an edge, but others are still free to buy the cars.
Mazda was open to the idea, but obviously had to sort itself out and field a competitive car before even giving any consideration to it. With Multimatic now having completely taken control of the program, and expanding its business, it could be in a position to do customer cars if other factors allow, and Mazda gives its blessing.
Acura has fielded customer interest, but was first hamstrung by the exclusivity granted to Penske, and now, by the costs of supporting customers, in a time when HPD is re-evaluating all of its North American racing programs, with an eye toward cutting costs, if possible. It is planning to continue, following more of GM's model of spreading the burden, sans customers. The Penske split isn't necessarily positive, but it's not doom either, unless a bomb is dropped.
The new LMDh/DPi 2.0 brings promise. I think the Penske/Porsche hookup many envision contains more wishful thinking than many do, but a harmonized class that will be able to run in the WEC and IMSA is large, wise step and beneficial for the sport as a whole if it is executed properly.
P2 - I wasn't entirely sure that splitting P2 off would work, in weakening the P class, and creating a new one that few were interested in. But, that has changed, with the emphasis on it being a Pro/Am class, and the flexibility to contest both full- and partial season championships making it more attractive to teams, including those that normally mostly run ELMS. It was seeing a revival before COVID stepped in.
GTLM - This one is of the most concern, and many feel that its days are numbered and will repeat GT1's footsteps. Porsche's withdrawl is a big blow, and BMW's commitment (and decision-making) has been questionable, even before it withdrew the M8 from the WEC. GM has a shiny new car, but may not have anyone else to race against, and might have to resort to the Plan-B of turning it in a GT3. Ferrari and Aston-Martin have never had much interest, or wanted to pay IMSA's manufacturer's fee, respectively.
GTD - it's doing ok, even if it has strayed from its intended purpose, with thinly-veiled factory efforts bringing pro drivers, and increased costs. It's a step up in prestige and exposure for the Am drivers who can afford it. IMSA's shorter schedule, with fewer races but still a considerable number of racing hours requires a bigger commitment than the other GT3 series options. Ratel's SRO series, as popular as they are, are more for the enjoyment of its participants, and his racing business, than for notoriety, and sprint races are cheaper and easier to work around.
Anyone who has followed sports car racing for any amount of time knows that it is the most cyclical of any class, and more reliant on manufacturers than other classes. Ups and downs are part of the game, and to be expected.
IMSA has stable ownership, has had good leadership, and may take some hits as a result of COVID, but not necessarily of its own doing.
One only has to look at the painful story of the WEC in the last few years, and tortuous efforts to birth a new top class to see that it could be worse. Toyota has been a loyal and trusted partner for the ACO, but Hypercar wasn't something any other OEM wanted, no matter how many adjustments were made, or how many meetings were held. Adopting DPi 2.0 as LMDh was the only sensible option to take, and if taken earlier, would have saved many headaches.
The P1H era was glorious, but always going to be fleeting. Sister marques Audi and Porsche spending low nine-figure budgets to beat up on each other wasn't going to last, even before Dieselgate forced VAG to cut back. Toyota showed very well with its high eight-figure budgets, but spending $60-80M to beat up on privateers is no fun to watch, and leaves its victories a bit hollow. Even $40M for a Hypercar is still too much, when LMDh will likely cost half that, or less.
IMSA isn't perfect, but had the right idea with DPi, and LMDh may prove that even further.
What does bring reason for immediate concern is how the COVID economy will impact racing budgets, but that applies to every series, and isn't unique, or confined to IMSA.
If you want to talk about a series in danger, look at the grave situation of DTM, but that's a different topic.
Looking at the various classes:
DPi - I can see the argument that it's too much of a Caddy-dominated class, but that is natural consequence of GM's approach to the series, and being the only one to sell cars. Instead of running an exclusive, full-factory effort, it had opted to support different teams, who also bring their own sponsors to bear the costs. WTR and AXR are tasked with helping with development, which gives them a bit of an edge, but others are still free to buy the cars.
Mazda was open to the idea, but obviously had to sort itself out and field a competitive car before even giving any consideration to it. With Multimatic now having completely taken control of the program, and expanding its business, it could be in a position to do customer cars if other factors allow, and Mazda gives its blessing.
Acura has fielded customer interest, but was first hamstrung by the exclusivity granted to Penske, and now, by the costs of supporting customers, in a time when HPD is re-evaluating all of its North American racing programs, with an eye toward cutting costs, if possible. It is planning to continue, following more of GM's model of spreading the burden, sans customers. The Penske split isn't necessarily positive, but it's not doom either, unless a bomb is dropped.
The new LMDh/DPi 2.0 brings promise. I think the Penske/Porsche hookup many envision contains more wishful thinking than many do, but a harmonized class that will be able to run in the WEC and IMSA is large, wise step and beneficial for the sport as a whole if it is executed properly.
P2 - I wasn't entirely sure that splitting P2 off would work, in weakening the P class, and creating a new one that few were interested in. But, that has changed, with the emphasis on it being a Pro/Am class, and the flexibility to contest both full- and partial season championships making it more attractive to teams, including those that normally mostly run ELMS. It was seeing a revival before COVID stepped in.
GTLM - This one is of the most concern, and many feel that its days are numbered and will repeat GT1's footsteps. Porsche's withdrawl is a big blow, and BMW's commitment (and decision-making) has been questionable, even before it withdrew the M8 from the WEC. GM has a shiny new car, but may not have anyone else to race against, and might have to resort to the Plan-B of turning it in a GT3. Ferrari and Aston-Martin have never had much interest, or wanted to pay IMSA's manufacturer's fee, respectively.
GTD - it's doing ok, even if it has strayed from its intended purpose, with thinly-veiled factory efforts bringing pro drivers, and increased costs. It's a step up in prestige and exposure for the Am drivers who can afford it. IMSA's shorter schedule, with fewer races but still a considerable number of racing hours requires a bigger commitment than the other GT3 series options. Ratel's SRO series, as popular as they are, are more for the enjoyment of its participants, and his racing business, than for notoriety, and sprint races are cheaper and easier to work around.
Anyone who has followed sports car racing for any amount of time knows that it is the most cyclical of any class, and more reliant on manufacturers than other classes. Ups and downs are part of the game, and to be expected.
IMSA has stable ownership, has had good leadership, and may take some hits as a result of COVID, but not necessarily of its own doing.
One only has to look at the painful story of the WEC in the last few years, and tortuous efforts to birth a new top class to see that it could be worse. Toyota has been a loyal and trusted partner for the ACO, but Hypercar wasn't something any other OEM wanted, no matter how many adjustments were made, or how many meetings were held. Adopting DPi 2.0 as LMDh was the only sensible option to take, and if taken earlier, would have saved many headaches.
The P1H era was glorious, but always going to be fleeting. Sister marques Audi and Porsche spending low nine-figure budgets to beat up on each other wasn't going to last, even before Dieselgate forced VAG to cut back. Toyota showed very well with its high eight-figure budgets, but spending $60-80M to beat up on privateers is no fun to watch, and leaves its victories a bit hollow. Even $40M for a Hypercar is still too much, when LMDh will likely cost half that, or less.
IMSA isn't perfect, but had the right idea with DPi, and LMDh may prove that even further.
I agree with a lot of your post, but a few things to think about -
Whilst the DTM situation is worse, lets not downplay the IMSA situation. The reason DTM is dying is they did not address things when they were in a slightly better situation. IMSA is literally 1 board decision away from the DTM issues right now. They are 100% reliant on GM keeping the Caddy and Corvette programs alive. Corvette is more certain, but Caddy can be pulled at any point.
Acura has fielded customers in the past with the LMP2 cars, but even that was a half effort compared to other LMP projects at the time. They have shown no interest in fielding customer cars this time around. Whilst that can be put down to Acuras exclusive contract with Penske, they did agree to that. That isn't something that was forced upon them. The Penske split is absolutely a negative because Acura have stated they want a cheaper contract. They are putting less money into the series, not more.
The LMP2 resurgence wasn't really much. A couple of random cars for Daytona but that's about it. That isn't going to act as a safety net if DPi plans falter. IMSA purposely killed off LMP2 but may live to regret that decision. The next generation of LMP2s isn't looking that hot either (not that the current generation has been great).
You're right that sportscar racing goes in cycles - however I disagree that it has to. It only goes in cycles when the series bend over significantly for manufacturers. Group C was fine until manufacturers made demands and the FIA and ACO were all too happy to bend to these demands in order to keep manufacturers. When they left, there was nothing. The ACO actually got pretty decent at managing the cycles through the 00s as they moved into LMP900 for the start of the 2000s and adjusted that into LMP1 (and LMP675 becoming LMP2). This did very little to appease manufacturers and it was only when they started demanding hybrids be a larger part of the show that it became a serious problem. Then they neglected the private teams only to need them when VAG pulled cars out.
IMSA had the same thing. It actually did well at managing cycles during the split years, and always had a healthy grid of DPs after the initial generation issues. Fans didn't like them, but it didn't matter - the series did well and had teams and enough sponsors and paid drivers to keep it healthy. IMSA now is playing the exact same game WEC did and has making plays for manufacturers for easy money. They're targeting the most fickle of entries, and have simultaneously killed off LMP2, meaning privateers have very little options. The current IMSA play book is right from the WEC play book and it doesn't look good.
Absolute king of managing issues is SRO. They've managed to keep a lid on costs by excluding manufacturers to the best of their ability. Manufacturers should only be supplying customer vehicles, and they now have a minimum sales number for GT3 homologated cars. It isn't fool proof and there's plenty of cars you could argue have factory backing - but it's worked enough. GT3 is strong, and GT4 (and GT2) are waiting in the wings for when GT3 does begin to stutter a bit.
Simply put: Stefan Ratel is a better long term businessman than the people running IMSA and WEC. The result is his series have been stronger for longer, because he doesn't chase short term cash injections like the others are. And who was it that had to bail out the ACO when Group C collapsed? Ratel. Who had to take over British GT to keep it running? Ratel. Who is now in complete control of what was Pirelli World Challenge? Ratel. Who has built a popular (entry wise) racing series in Asia? Ratel. Who is still struggling for Asian entries? ACO. I don't even like Mr Ratel, but damn he is good at what he does.
On the original topic - F1 is very guilty of this right now too. We're appeasing engine manufacturers and the entire sports survival is now based on who can afford over expensive engines that fans don't care about, but manufacturers do. F1 should be looking at horse racing and sailing and embracing the idea of being a pure sport rather than desperately trying to remain road relevant, which would allow it to not be completely controlled by manufacturers.
Whilst the DTM situation is worse, lets not downplay the IMSA situation. The reason DTM is dying is they did not address things when they were in a slightly better situation. IMSA is literally 1 board decision away from the DTM issues right now. They are 100% reliant on GM keeping the Caddy and Corvette programs alive. Corvette is more certain, but Caddy can be pulled at any point.
Acura has fielded customers in the past with the LMP2 cars, but even that was a half effort compared to other LMP projects at the time. They have shown no interest in fielding customer cars this time around. Whilst that can be put down to Acuras exclusive contract with Penske, they did agree to that. That isn't something that was forced upon them. The Penske split is absolutely a negative because Acura have stated they want a cheaper contract. They are putting less money into the series, not more.
The LMP2 resurgence wasn't really much. A couple of random cars for Daytona but that's about it. That isn't going to act as a safety net if DPi plans falter. IMSA purposely killed off LMP2 but may live to regret that decision. The next generation of LMP2s isn't looking that hot either (not that the current generation has been great).
You're right that sportscar racing goes in cycles - however I disagree that it has to. It only goes in cycles when the series bend over significantly for manufacturers. Group C was fine until manufacturers made demands and the FIA and ACO were all too happy to bend to these demands in order to keep manufacturers. When they left, there was nothing. The ACO actually got pretty decent at managing the cycles through the 00s as they moved into LMP900 for the start of the 2000s and adjusted that into LMP1 (and LMP675 becoming LMP2). This did very little to appease manufacturers and it was only when they started demanding hybrids be a larger part of the show that it became a serious problem. Then they neglected the private teams only to need them when VAG pulled cars out.
IMSA had the same thing. It actually did well at managing cycles during the split years, and always had a healthy grid of DPs after the initial generation issues. Fans didn't like them, but it didn't matter - the series did well and had teams and enough sponsors and paid drivers to keep it healthy. IMSA now is playing the exact same game WEC did and has making plays for manufacturers for easy money. They're targeting the most fickle of entries, and have simultaneously killed off LMP2, meaning privateers have very little options. The current IMSA play book is right from the WEC play book and it doesn't look good.
Absolute king of managing issues is SRO. They've managed to keep a lid on costs by excluding manufacturers to the best of their ability. Manufacturers should only be supplying customer vehicles, and they now have a minimum sales number for GT3 homologated cars. It isn't fool proof and there's plenty of cars you could argue have factory backing - but it's worked enough. GT3 is strong, and GT4 (and GT2) are waiting in the wings for when GT3 does begin to stutter a bit.
Simply put: Stefan Ratel is a better long term businessman than the people running IMSA and WEC. The result is his series have been stronger for longer, because he doesn't chase short term cash injections like the others are. And who was it that had to bail out the ACO when Group C collapsed? Ratel. Who had to take over British GT to keep it running? Ratel. Who is now in complete control of what was Pirelli World Challenge? Ratel. Who has built a popular (entry wise) racing series in Asia? Ratel. Who is still struggling for Asian entries? ACO. I don't even like Mr Ratel, but damn he is good at what he does.
On the original topic - F1 is very guilty of this right now too. We're appeasing engine manufacturers and the entire sports survival is now based on who can afford over expensive engines that fans don't care about, but manufacturers do. F1 should be looking at horse racing and sailing and embracing the idea of being a pure sport rather than desperately trying to remain road relevant, which would allow it to not be completely controlled by manufacturers.
I'm happy to see that there is someone with the ability to discuss the topic in depth.
However, I don't share as dim of a view of IMSA, given that it has a loyal partner in GM, and a more sustainable formula in DPi/LMDh, which has garnered positive feedback from multiple OEMs, as it should, since they helped shape it.
Hypercar, OTOH, has but one major backer, with all due respect to James Glickenhaus and ByKolles. Many think it will be DOA, especially with LMDh in the picture. Which OEM in their right mind is going to spend millions more when it doesn't have to? Without Toyota, the WEC would have collapsed by now.
You may perceive the legs as weak, but until further notice, IMSA's stool still has three legs, and is not afraid to act when needed. My biggest worry would be Mazda, the smallest OEM of the three, which sacrificed its support of ladder series to bolster the effort. It has the heart of a racer, but can least afford to support it.
In a worst case scenario, IMSA could revert to the Grand Am model, which allowed for manufacturer branding without explicit manufacturer involvement. And it might not necessarily require dumbing down to the tube-framed DP chassis of that era, which were some of the least attractive race cars ever developed, to put it charitably. ESM showed that a private commission with P2 cars could work, and find success.
Maintaining a balance between cost and technology is the hardest task in the sport. Even F1, which has better immunity to a lot of the ills that affect other series, struggles with it.
It takes two to tango, OEMs are essential, and many don't recognize that they are the customers that organizers have to please, and can be fickle. Of course, that doesn't mean giving away the store, or making policies that are unpleasant enough to keep them away.
Racing has never been cheap, and in the past, that has been largely supported by money from vice company sponsorship. With that legislated mostly out of existence, factory marketing money remains as the largest potential source, but reliance on that is riskier. The world has also changed, there are other sports considered more extreme, and more options than ever for entertainment, and ways to consume it, so audiences are fragmented into smaller pieces. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday doesn't work as well as it used to, if it ever did. I often see laments about the good old days, but they're not coming back, and racing has to adjust to the current climate, with spec-based formulas being an economic necessity.
Ratel is shrewd, and successful enough to keep the FIA at bay. His business is successful because he recognizes that the teams are his customers, and how all the piece fit together in the bigger picture.
His goal is to provide an attractive venue for teams, for the drivers who are the teams' customers, and for the OEMs, who have the teams as their customers, and rely on race car sales to help fund development, provide support, as well as serve as a training ground to groom future factory pilots.
Porsche is still the king at doing this, and exploiting it to sell road cars as well. Ferrari is also capable, and has done this in the past, but shifted its focus to F1. I hope that if anything comes of the F1 budget cap surplus, that it would embrace this again, rather than enter IndyCar, as much as I enjoy that series. I doubt its motives in that respect, and fear that it would upset the good status quo with Honda and Chevy, and that's not something a series still recovering from the Split necessarily needs.
It might not be as spectator friendly to watch a bunch of anonymous rich guys rub fenders, but it's a corner of the motorsports world that does well for itself. However, the COVID economy will impact those "gentlemen drivers" as well, so it is not immune either.
And frankly, the FIA's borderline (in)competence at handling everything it touches, with the notable exception of F1, can serve to flatter a lot of people. Without Bernie, F1 wouldn't be where it is, and has succeeded in spite of the FIA. The jury is still out on Liberty.
But I think Ratel and Agag, with FE, are smart enough to recognize that and try to maintain peaceful relations while keeping the FIA at arm's length, and keep their shows running their way.
The current turmoil is affecting everyone, and there will continue to be uncertainty until some effective medical treatment for COVID is found, making any prediction difficult. Lots of precedents have been shattered, so anything can happen.
However, I don't share as dim of a view of IMSA, given that it has a loyal partner in GM, and a more sustainable formula in DPi/LMDh, which has garnered positive feedback from multiple OEMs, as it should, since they helped shape it.
Hypercar, OTOH, has but one major backer, with all due respect to James Glickenhaus and ByKolles. Many think it will be DOA, especially with LMDh in the picture. Which OEM in their right mind is going to spend millions more when it doesn't have to? Without Toyota, the WEC would have collapsed by now.
You may perceive the legs as weak, but until further notice, IMSA's stool still has three legs, and is not afraid to act when needed. My biggest worry would be Mazda, the smallest OEM of the three, which sacrificed its support of ladder series to bolster the effort. It has the heart of a racer, but can least afford to support it.
In a worst case scenario, IMSA could revert to the Grand Am model, which allowed for manufacturer branding without explicit manufacturer involvement. And it might not necessarily require dumbing down to the tube-framed DP chassis of that era, which were some of the least attractive race cars ever developed, to put it charitably. ESM showed that a private commission with P2 cars could work, and find success.
Maintaining a balance between cost and technology is the hardest task in the sport. Even F1, which has better immunity to a lot of the ills that affect other series, struggles with it.
It takes two to tango, OEMs are essential, and many don't recognize that they are the customers that organizers have to please, and can be fickle. Of course, that doesn't mean giving away the store, or making policies that are unpleasant enough to keep them away.
Racing has never been cheap, and in the past, that has been largely supported by money from vice company sponsorship. With that legislated mostly out of existence, factory marketing money remains as the largest potential source, but reliance on that is riskier. The world has also changed, there are other sports considered more extreme, and more options than ever for entertainment, and ways to consume it, so audiences are fragmented into smaller pieces. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday doesn't work as well as it used to, if it ever did. I often see laments about the good old days, but they're not coming back, and racing has to adjust to the current climate, with spec-based formulas being an economic necessity.
Ratel is shrewd, and successful enough to keep the FIA at bay. His business is successful because he recognizes that the teams are his customers, and how all the piece fit together in the bigger picture.
His goal is to provide an attractive venue for teams, for the drivers who are the teams' customers, and for the OEMs, who have the teams as their customers, and rely on race car sales to help fund development, provide support, as well as serve as a training ground to groom future factory pilots.
Porsche is still the king at doing this, and exploiting it to sell road cars as well. Ferrari is also capable, and has done this in the past, but shifted its focus to F1. I hope that if anything comes of the F1 budget cap surplus, that it would embrace this again, rather than enter IndyCar, as much as I enjoy that series. I doubt its motives in that respect, and fear that it would upset the good status quo with Honda and Chevy, and that's not something a series still recovering from the Split necessarily needs.
It might not be as spectator friendly to watch a bunch of anonymous rich guys rub fenders, but it's a corner of the motorsports world that does well for itself. However, the COVID economy will impact those "gentlemen drivers" as well, so it is not immune either.
And frankly, the FIA's borderline (in)competence at handling everything it touches, with the notable exception of F1, can serve to flatter a lot of people. Without Bernie, F1 wouldn't be where it is, and has succeeded in spite of the FIA. The jury is still out on Liberty.
But I think Ratel and Agag, with FE, are smart enough to recognize that and try to maintain peaceful relations while keeping the FIA at arm's length, and keep their shows running their way.
The current turmoil is affecting everyone, and there will continue to be uncertainty until some effective medical treatment for COVID is found, making any prediction difficult. Lots of precedents have been shattered, so anything can happen.
Last edited:
I'm impressed with the knowledge as well.
Almost makes you think we need an "IMSA" thread. I'm not saying we do, and the posts have been enlightening.
I am saying if you're that big of a fan maybe you should? There might be other IMSA fans who don't bother looking in here...
Almost makes you think we need an "IMSA" thread. I'm not saying we do, and the posts have been enlightening.
I am saying if you're that big of a fan maybe you should? There might be other IMSA fans who don't bother looking in here...
Really unfortunate that Perez has tested positive and will miss the next 2 races. I bet Hulkenberg wasn't expecting to be back in an F1 car so soon. This should serve as a reminder that this season isn't just about how well you drive or how good your car is.
A positive test at the wrong time for Lewis could see him miss 3 races and hand Bottas a massive advantage.
I'll still enjoy the race weekend, but Silverstone without fans doesn't look right at all.
A positive test at the wrong time for Lewis could see him miss 3 races and hand Bottas a massive advantage.
I'll still enjoy the race weekend, but Silverstone without fans doesn't look right at all.
*I hadn't even thought of that. Stay healthy drivers!
I haven't missed the fans at any sporting event.
Get well Sergio.
Perez 'extremely sad' as he reveals positive Covid-19 test followed visit to injured mother in Mexico | Formula 1®
Sergio Perez has spoken for the first time since testing positive for Covid-19 ahead of the British Grand Prix, describing it as one of the "saddest days in my career".
Last edited:
Oh Hypercar is a disaster. Don't assume that because I'm pessimistic regarding the IMSA state that I am suggesting the ACOs next generation idea is a good one - it's bad, and it's going to be far worse than anything IMSA comes up with.
The place where we disagree the most is regarding the IMSA legs on the stool. You say it has 3 legs, whilst I say it only has 1 full leg and 2 half legs. Mazda and Acura still don't count as legs for supporting the series, since they still can't (or won't) sell customer cars. Literally every private entry has to be a Cadillac. Or, to put it another way - if you do a risk analysis, Cadillac is a single point of failure for IMSA. And that to be sums it up - IMSA could not survive Cadillac leaving.
However I'll cut my post short there, as I'm sure we could both go on for years with these long posts and bore everyone
I don't think an IMSA thread is needed, but if F1 fans don't mind, I think we could do generic motorsports in here. It'll mostly be F1, but some people might discover some new stuff they like. This weekend has NLS (Previously VLN), GT Masters, BTCC, British GT, IMSA and F1! Next weekend has GT World Challenge, ELMS and SuperGT as well. And Formula E is doing 6 races in a week, including mid-week events too.
Basically lets have a giant motorsport party
The place where we disagree the most is regarding the IMSA legs on the stool. You say it has 3 legs, whilst I say it only has 1 full leg and 2 half legs. Mazda and Acura still don't count as legs for supporting the series, since they still can't (or won't) sell customer cars. Literally every private entry has to be a Cadillac. Or, to put it another way - if you do a risk analysis, Cadillac is a single point of failure for IMSA. And that to be sums it up - IMSA could not survive Cadillac leaving.
However I'll cut my post short there, as I'm sure we could both go on for years with these long posts and bore everyone
I don't think an IMSA thread is needed, but if F1 fans don't mind, I think we could do generic motorsports in here. It'll mostly be F1, but some people might discover some new stuff they like. This weekend has NLS (Previously VLN), GT Masters, BTCC, British GT, IMSA and F1! Next weekend has GT World Challenge, ELMS and SuperGT as well. And Formula E is doing 6 races in a week, including mid-week events too.
Basically lets have a giant motorsport party
I’m strictly F1 personally. I simply don’t have the time to watch multiple categories.Oh Hypercar is a disaster. Don't assume that because I'm pessimistic regarding the IMSA state that I am suggesting the ACOs next generation idea is a good one - it's bad, and it's going to be far worse than anything IMSA comes up with.
The place where we disagree the most is regarding the IMSA legs on the stool. You say it has 3 legs, whilst I say it only has 1 full leg and 2 half legs. Mazda and Acura still don't count as legs for supporting the series, since they still can't (or won't) sell customer cars. Literally every private entry has to be a Cadillac. Or, to put it another way - if you do a risk analysis, Cadillac is a single point of failure for IMSA. And that to be sums it up - IMSA could not survive Cadillac leaving.
However I'll cut my post short there, as I'm sure we could both go on for years with these long posts and bore everyone
I don't think an IMSA thread is needed, but if F1 fans don't mind, I think we could do generic motorsports in here. It'll mostly be F1, but some people might discover some new stuff they like. This weekend has NLS (Previously VLN), GT Masters, BTCC, British GT, IMSA and F1! Next weekend has GT World Challenge, ELMS and SuperGT as well. And Formula E is doing 6 races in a week, including mid-week events too.
Basically lets have a giant motorsport party
Hadn’t thought of that either! But what if it’s Bottas that gets it? Might as well end it now!
Personally, I wouldn't want to sift through lots of huge posts about events I have no interest in to get to the F1 posts.
As for what you said about Bottas. First, I want to clear I hope nobody contracts the virus. But it's just a fact it could throw up some interesting twists to the season.
I thought the whole F1 entourage were in their own bubble away from everything? But perhaps they get family in between and they could have passed it on?