2020 Formula 1 Season Thread

[The-Real-Deal82]

What a fantastic asset to the sport George Russell is

I liked his response lol. Always nice to see drivers show their sense of humour.

 

[Nütztjanix]

It’s not that Mercedes are too quick. It’s Ferrari and the rest are too slow!
Come on guys you need to up your game, not pull the top guys down.
If I want to watch slower racing there are plenty of other formulas I can go watch.

It was exactly the same when Michael and Ferrari dominated from 2001-2004. They changed the rules multiple times and in the end quite massively to slow them down. Bernie didn't like it when the titles where secured in Magny-Cours or Spa …

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It was exactly the same when Michael and Ferrari dominated from 2001-2004. They changed the rules multiple times and in the end quite massively to slow them down. Bernie didn't like it when the titles where secured in Magny-Cours or Spa …

I think that needed to happen back then as Ferrari were becoming more powerful than the FIA. Bridgestone developing special compound tyres just for Ferrari and Luda DM threatening to pull out of the sport every 5 mins if they didn’t get their way. This Enzo ego needed to be put in check back then but I agree with you that rules generally shouldn’t be changed just to stop teams who have engineered better racing cars.

 

[Nütztjanix]

I think that needed to happen back then as Ferrari were becoming more powerful than the FIA. Bridgestone developing special compound tyres just for Ferrari and Luda DM threatening to pull out of the sport every 5 mins if they didn’t get their way. This Enzo ego needed to be put in check back then but I agree with you that rules generally shouldn’t be changed just to stop teams who have engineered better racing cars.

I accept your opinion, but I can't agree with it. Nothing personal, though.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I accept your opinion, but I can't agree with it. Nothing personal, though.

That’s fine but the only opinion in my post was about it needing to end. The Ferrari influence was well documented and dates back to Bernies days of negotiating fees for teams back in the 70’s. He is partly to blame for taking on the FIA with the struggle to take away the money management from circuits and into the hands of the constructors, and Ferrari were allowed to maintain a prestigious status for decades after. Although Ferrari are a shambles right now, at least they are more cooperative among their competitors. Enzo only had to threaten Ballestre with pulling out of F1 even back then and the right decision or penalty was awarded in their favour. Until fairly recently the technical regulation changes were an almost collaboration with the Scuderia to suit budget allowances and technologies of interest which kept them onboard.

Not suggesting however that Ferrari didn’t have an amazing team structure back in the Schumacher era despite all that. To think Michael didn’t even want to go to Ferrari in 1995 and needed Weber and Brawn to convince him it was a better option than Williams lol.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That’s fine but the only opinion in my post was about it needing to end. The Ferrari influence was well documented and dates back to Bernies days of negotiating fees for teams back in the 70’s. He is partly to blame for taking on the FIA with the struggle to take away the money management from circuits and into the hands of the constructors, and Ferrari were allowed to maintain a prestigious status for decades after. Although Ferrari are a shambles right now, at least they are more cooperative among their competitors. Enzo only had to threaten Ballestre with pulling out of F1 even back then and the right decision or penalty was awarded in their favour. Until fairly recently the technical regulation changes were an almost collaboration with the Scuderia to suit budget allowances and technologies of interest which kept them onboard.

Not suggesting however that Ferrari didn’t have an amazing team structure back in the Schumacher era despite all that. To think Michael didn’t even want to go to Ferrari in 1995 and needed Weber and Brawn to convince him it was a better option than Williams lol.

But the Ferrari rule infringements last season have pretty much been swept under the carpet. No public trial, fine or points dock. Contrast that to Racing Point. The brake duct fiasco. Couldn’t be handled more differently.
One rule for them, one rule for the rest.
I suppose F1 is just reflecting life in that way.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

But the Ferrari rule infringements last season have pretty much been swept under the carpet. No public trial, fine or points dock. Contrast that to Racing Point. The brake duct fiasco. Couldn’t be handled more differently.
One rule for them, one rule for the rest.
I suppose F1 is just reflecting life in that way.

Ferrari still have a lot of clout within the sport and I think the FIA still tread carefully with them. It’s not right and it’s about time they realised Ferrari are privileged to be competing in F1 and not the sport is privileged to have them.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Ferrari still have a lot of clout within the sport and I think the FIA still tread carefully with them. It’s not right and it’s about time they realised Ferrari are privileged to be competing in F1 and not the sport is privileged to have them.

Agree. It’s like when you play football as kids and the kid who owns the ball says he’s going home because he doesn’t agree with your penalty decision.

 

[pachyderm]

PRACTICE 3

1	44	Lewis Hamilton	MERCEDES	1:17.222		12
2	77	Valtteri Bottas	MERCEDES	1:17.373	+0.151s	13
3	33	Max Verstappen	RED BULL RACING HONDA	1:17.737	+0.515s	10
4	55	Carlos Sainz	MCLAREN RENAULT	1:18.046	+0.824s	18
5	11	Sergio Perez	RACING POINT BWT MERCEDES	1:18.096	+0.874s	16
6	16	Charles Leclerc	FERRARI	1:18.193	+0.971s	15
7	10	Pierre Gasly	ALPHATAURI HONDA	1:18.211	+0.989s	13
8	18	Lance Stroll	RACING POINT BWT MERCEDES	1:18.309	+1.087s	16
9	23	Alexander Albon	RED BULL RACING HONDA	1:18.371	+1.149s	13
10	3	Daniel Ricciardo	RENAULT	1:18.384	+1.162s	12
11	31	Esteban Ocon	RENAULT	1:18.602	+1.380s	18
12	5	Sebastian Vettel	FERRARI	1:18.707	+1.485s	15
13	8	Romain Grosjean	HAAS FERRARI	1:18.710	+1.488s	14
14	7	Kimi Räikkönen	ALFA ROMEO RACING FERRARI	1:18.721	+1.499s	11
15	4	Lando Norris	MCLAREN RENAULT	1:18.803	+1.581s	23
16	26	Daniil Kvyat	ALPHATAURI HONDA	1:18.852	+1.630s	15
17	20	Kevin Magnussen	HAAS FERRARI	1:18.940	+1.718s	15
18	99	Antonio Giovinazzi	ALFA ROMEO RACING FERRARI	1:19.175	+1.953s	13
19	63	George Russell	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	1:19.297	+2.075s	16
20	6	Nicholas Latifi	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	1:19.764	+2.542s	16

 

[BenTrovato]

Q3 coming up, Vettel just misses the cut. Gasly in the Tauri is looking really good!

 

[CWallace]

Spoiler

Lewis was lucky Valteri had a bad sector otherwise he'd have lost pole.

Just started watching the coverage of the 6 Hours of Spa WEC race and man the weather is ugly.

 

[Nütztjanix]

That’s fine but the only opinion in my post was about it needing to end. The Ferrari influence was well documented and dates back to Bernies days of negotiating fees for teams back in the 70’s. He is partly to blame for taking on the FIA with the struggle to take away the money management from circuits and into the hands of the constructors, and Ferrari were allowed to maintain a prestigious status for decades after. Although Ferrari are a shambles right now, at least they are more cooperative among their competitors. Enzo only had to threaten Ballestre with pulling out of F1 even back then and the right decision or penalty was awarded in their favour. Until fairly recently the technical regulation changes were an almost collaboration with the Scuderia to suit budget allowances and technologies of interest which kept them onboard.

Not suggesting however that Ferrari didn’t have an amazing team structure back in the Schumacher era despite all that. To think Michael didn’t even want to go to Ferrari in 1995 and needed Weber and Brawn to convince him it was a better option than Williams lol.

All you say is correct, but I still don't agree that the rule changes that were made back then to prevent Michael from taking titles about mid season had a lot to do with Ferrari becoming more powerful than the FIA. My opinion is, they were made to keep Bernie and sponsors happy and decide the championship at the end of the season, preferably in the last corner of the last lap of the last race (pretty much how it went between Felipe and Hamilton in 2008).
That's the point on which we disagree. And as I said - don't take it personal. 🙂

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

All you say is correct, but I still don't agree that the rule changes that were made back then to prevent Michael from taking titles about mid season had a lot to do with Ferrari becoming more powerful than the FIA. My opinion is, they were made to keep Bernie and sponsors happy and decide the championship at the end of the season, preferably in the last corner of the last lap of the last race (pretty much how it went between Felipe and Hamilton in 2008).
That's the point on which we disagree. And as I said - don't take it personal.

Not an ounce of my being was taking it personally mate, just enjoying a civilised discussion on Formula One

Towards the end of 2004 F1 was suffering a decline in viewers (nowhere near as bad as now) and I think Bernie and the FIA wanted to bring Ferraris dominance to an end, I agree there. Mosley was getting rather annoyed with Luca’s threats back then and it was a period where Ferrari thought they were bigger than the sport. That needed to be dealt with and I think fans and the governing body felt it was time to change the regulations.

 

[Nütztjanix]

Not an ounce of my being was taking it personally mate, just enjoying a civilised discussion on Formula One

Towards the end of 2004 F1 was suffering a decline in viewers (nowhere near as bad as now) and I think Bernie and the FIA wanted to bring Ferraris dominance to an end, I agree there. Mosley was getting rather annoyed with Luca’s threats back then and it was a period where Ferrari thought they were bigger than the sport. That needed to be dealt with and I think fans and the governing body felt it was time to change the regulations.

This started well before the end of 2004, for example the change in qualifying mode or the points system where the second place driver suddenly only lost two points in relation to the winner - which obviously did harm Ferrari (and especially Michael) more than anyone else.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

This started well before the end of 2004, for example the change in qualifying mode or the points system where the second place driver suddenly only lost two points in relation to the winner - which obviously did harm Ferrari (and especially Michael) more than anyone else.

Ferrari were always good at manipulating the changes though. Like when in 2003 where the slowest drivers from the first qualifying session lead proceedings in the following session. Michael admitted at Silverstone that year that he deliberately span his car on his first session lap in order to gain an advantage in the next. Michael was also a master of one lap qualifying and we had that along with one hour sessions for much of his dominant years. Ferrari were by no means hard done by.

 

[circatee]

Is it me, or is it weird that Vettel is doing so poorly in his 'final' season at Ferrari?
His driving from the past few weeks, is really not like him. And, don't get me wrong, I am not even a fan of Vettel, I almost feel sorry for him.

 

[CWallace]

Is it me, or is it weird that Vettel is doing so poorly in his 'final' season at Ferrari?

IMO he is just not motivated anymore. I am sure he has decided to retire at the end of the season so he has no reason to push really hard and risk accident and injury. And he did only lose out on P10 by two thousands of a second so he was at least putting in more effort this week than at the 70th Grand Prix, even if it was say 85% compared to 80%.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Is it me, or is it weird that Vettel is doing so poorly in his 'final' season at Ferrari?
His driving from the past few weeks, is really not like him. And, don't get me wrong, I am not even a fan of Vettel, I almost feel sorry for him.

I get the impression his relationship within the team has broken down over the past months. He’s been underperforming for a few years now but lately it feels like he really can’t get on with the car and for unusual reasons. He said on Twitter that the chassis change feels better which ironically was the cause of Raikkonen’s poor form in 2008.

 

[Nütztjanix]

Ferrari were always good at manipulating the changes though. Like when in 2003 where the slowest drivers from the first qualifying session lead proceedings in the following session. Michael admitted at Silverstone that year that he deliberately span his car on his first session lap in order to gain an advantage in the next. Michael was also a master of one lap qualifying and we had that along with one hour sessions for much of his dominant years. Ferrari were by no means hard done by.

Let’s just agree to disagree and get back to topic.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Mercedes 1-2 today. But I doubt it will finish that way tomorrow. Not unless they have sorted out their tyre issues in one week. I’d expect Max go to get more out of his tyres and perhaps one less stop. Especially as it’s hot in Spain.

 

[CWallace]

Max starting on the Mediums when the Benzes started on Softs I think really helped their strategy last race. The tires are also the hardest compounds so the Soft is like last race's Medium. As such I expect the Mercedes to just cruise to a 1-2 baring incidents or mechanical issues.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Max starting on the Mediums when the Benzes started on Softs I think really helped their strategy last race. The tires are also the hardest compounds so the Soft is like last race's Medium. As such I expect the Mercedes to just cruise to a 1-2 baring incidents or mechanical issues.

I think the heat will still play a part. Behind the Mercs, things are pretty tight.

 

[pachyderm]

Starting Grid:

1	44	Lewis Hamilton	MERCEDES	1:16.872	1:16.013	1:15.584	15
2	77	Valtteri Bottas	MERCEDES	1:17.243	1:16.152	1:15.643	15
3	33	Max Verstappen	RED BULL RACING HONDA	1:17.213	1:16.518	1:16.292	15
4	11	Sergio Perez	RACING POINT BWT MERCEDES	1:17.117	1:16.936	1:16.482	15
5	18	Lance Stroll	RACING POINT BWT MERCEDES	1:17.316	1:16.666	1:16.589	15
6	23	Alexander Albon	RED BULL RACING HONDA	1:17.419	1:17.163	1:17.029	18
7	55	Carlos Sainz	MCLAREN RENAULT	1:17.438	1:16.876	1:17.044	17
8	4	Lando Norris	MCLAREN RENAULT	1:17.577	1:17.166	1:17.084	18
9	16	Charles Leclerc	FERRARI	1:17.256	1:16.953	1:17.087	18
10	10	Pierre Gasly	ALPHATAURI HONDA	1:17.356	1:16.800	1:17.136	18
11	5	Sebastian Vettel	FERRARI	1:17.573	1:17.168		12
12	26	Daniil Kvyat	ALPHATAURI HONDA	1:17.676	1:17.192		12
13	3	Daniel Ricciardo	RENAULT	1:17.667	1:17.198		12
14	7	Kimi Räikkönen	ALFA ROMEO RACING FERRARI	1:17.797	1:17.386		12
15	31	Esteban Ocon	RENAULT	1:17.765	1:17.567		12
16	20	Kevin Magnussen	HAAS FERRARI	1:17.908			6
17	8	Romain Grosjean	HAAS FERRARI	1:18.089			6
18	63	George Russell	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	1:18.099			9
19	6	Nicholas Latifi	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	1:18.532			9
20	99	Antonio Giovinazzi	ALFA ROMEO RACING FERRARI	1:18.697			6

 

[CWallace]

I think the heat will still play a part. Behind the Mercs, things are pretty tight.

True. The Mercedes has always been the hardest chassis on tires when the track temperatures are legitimately hot.


Watching Indy Qualifying (which is in itself weird being in August) and seeing Graham Rahal save it in Turn 3 at 233 MPH was...invigorating (more for him than myself, I am sure).

 

[robbieduncan]

Max should be able to win today. Not my favourite (I find him to quite an unpleasant person) but it’s good for the season if he can narrow the gap. I think Mercedes will be forced to implement team orders soon and with Lewis a good chunk ahead that can only go one way