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Ok my take, Max was seeing red after that dreadful pit stop, he saw Lewis and gunned for it, Lewis saw him and thought nope your going off the track mate.
Neither of them will concede anything, both as bad as each other, Max could have backed out yes, but Lewis should have left a car width as required. Other greats have done moves like that over the years and come out, but they didn't have sausage kerbs back then, and were perhaps better more controlled drivers.
I think Max and Lewis's attitudes show why they are champions but also why they aren't competitors? Both great drivers.
Still I do believe those stupid kerbs are partly to blame. If that was in the French GP track for instance they wouldn't have crashed at all. I think they need to look at those kerbs again.

Still if I can see McLaren on the front everywhere I'm perfectly fine with that! For me McLaren are my number two team and potentially has the better drivers then RB.

For me if Lewis left a cars width, he would effectively be conceding to a car that wasn’t even level with him. That cars width would give Max the next corner and I think he’s entitled to fight for it. Raikkonen and Alonso have conceded to Lewis in this corner in identical moves over the years. I think you’re right Max was seeing red and that most and determination caused the collision.

Mark Webber said recently there were drivers you raced against where you could trust your competitor with your life. Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Massa were all hard but fair. The likes of Grosjean, Verstappen, Maldonado have the Schumacher instinct where the winning at all costs in the hope the other driver concedes comes first. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. The curbs were stupid too and I think Max would have been told to give the place back had he successfully completed the move as he cut the chicane.

McLaren at the front next year with Lando continuing to show his talent is fine by me. Russell outperforming Hamilton is also fine by me
 
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I haven’t seen that but I agree, that’s a stupid suggestion. I can’t stand Herbert to be honest and surprised to hear that Hill would say something so stupid. One of the many reasons I don’t watch Sky F1!

I was disappointed to see Max walk away without checking Lewis was ok as the Red Bull sat on top of the halo. Obviously very frustrated, unless he was advised over the radio Lewis was ok? I know when Max had his huge accident at Silverstone, Lewis asked before the end of the lap if he was ok.

I’d like to see McLaren back at the front again after today. Too big a team to be fighting for 5th place.

I hate the Sky commentaries too sometimes, they were telling Australians to stay up and enjoy the celebrations and don't go to work tomorrow..
 
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For me if Lewis left a cars width, he would effectively be conceding to a car that wasn’t even level with him. That cars width would give Max the next corner and I think he’s entitled to fight for it. Raikkonen and Alonso have conceded to Lewis in this corner in identical moves over the years. I think you’re right Max was seeing red and that most and determination caused the collision.

Mark Webber said recently there were drivers you raced against where you could trust your competitor with your life. Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Massa were all hard but fair. The likes of Grosjean, Verstappen, Maldonado have the Schumacher instinct where the winning at all costs in the hope the other driver concedes comes first. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. The curbs were stupid too and I think Max would have been told to give the place back had he successfully completed the move as he cut the chicane.

McLaren at the front next year with Lando continuing to show his talent is fine by me. Russell outperforming Hamilton is also fine by me
I edited my reply to you AGAIN lol, so please re-read it, as having thought about it, I do agree, because IMO if your wings in front it's your corner. But I also blame that stupid kerb for causing the accident, if it was gravel there it would have been different.
 
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I think that Lewis was clearly ahead of Max, and it is also clear that Max was considerably alongside Lewis such that cutting him off was going to either force him off the track or cause a collision. The curbs led to Max's car going airborne and over Lewis, luckily the speed was low and the halo did its job.

I can see fault with both drivers and won't be surprised if it is ultimately judged a 'racing incident' by the stewards.

I don't expect either Lewis or Max to back off in the future, we will see more of this. It kind of reminds me of Prost and Senna, how many years ago was it that they both went off the track (Suzuka?) and it resulted in the championship going to Prost (or was it Senna?).
 
For me if Lewis left a cars width, he would effectively be conceding to a car that wasn’t even level with him. That cars width would give Max the next corner and I think he’s entitled to fight for it. Raikkonen and Alonso have conceded to Lewis in this corner in identical moves over the years. I think you’re right Max was seeing red and that most and determination caused the collision.

Mark Webber said recently there were drivers you raced against where you could trust your competitor with your life. Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Massa were all hard but fair. The likes of Grosjean, Verstappen, Maldonado have the Schumacher instinct where the winning at all costs in the hope the other driver concedes comes first. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. The curbs were stupid too and I think Max would have been told to give the place back had he successfully completed the move as he cut the chicane.

McLaren at the front next year with Lando continuing to show his talent is fine by me. Russell outperforming Hamilton is also fine by me

I should also add, I think Russell is going to cause issues for Lewis and won't take a back seat. He will want to go for the win. Russel, Lando, Dani, even Sergio, all fine by me, and chuck in the odd Ferrari too please.

I am a RB fan, but more or less cause of the cars colour scheme and the fact a soft drinks company runs it! Second for me, and first in the older days has always been McLaren. I hope next years new cars will see them all fight more, I've loved seeing Alonso and Sebastian battle this year as they are experienced old dogs with huge mutual respect, and we get fantastic racing without them crashing into each other, hopefully.
 
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I don't expect either Lewis or Max to back off in the future, we will see more of this. It kind of reminds me of Prost and Senna, how many years ago was it that they both went off the track (Suzuka?) and it resulted in the championship going to Prost (or was it Senna?).
I haven’t looked it up but something tells me that was 1989? I know Prost won the championship because of it and McLaren refused to celebrate it as the relationship had soured and he was off to Ferrari.
 
I think that Lewis was clearly ahead of Max, and it is also clear that Max was considerably alongside Lewis such that cutting him off was going to either force him off the track or cause a collision. The curbs led to Max's car going airborne and over Lewis, luckily the speed was low and the halo did its job.

I can see fault with both drivers and won't be surprised if it is ultimately judged a 'racing incident' by the stewards.

I don't expect either Lewis or Max to back off in the future, we will see more of this. It kind of reminds me of Prost and Senna, how many years ago was it that they both went off the track (Suzuka?) and it resulted in the championship going to Prost (or was it Senna?).

It will definitely be a racing incident. The Halo did it’s job, but the tire did make light contact with the top of Lewis’ helmet. I wonder if things would have been different had the right rear drive not snapped on Max’s RB16 and that wheel was rotating the same as the left rear.

I haven’t seen the changes in the 2022 Halo as far as it’s height and the diameter of its entry. The larger tires next year should prevent a tire from Angling in like that. Glad Lewis was ok, and Max should have gone over to him, but all bets are off now.

I agree with your Senna Prost analogy to a point. I think Max can be as aggressive as Senna, but I don’t see Lewis like Prost.
 
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The stewards have been appalling this year. A racing incident all day long, much like their crash at Silverstone. Takes the enjoyment out of watching wheel to wheel racing for me.

Agreed, racing incidents shouldn’t be punished like this. Silverstone was a 5 sec penalty… Anyway, they’ll just do the engine change next race too I assume. No real loss then.
 
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Having watched it a few times from different angles, and the lead up to it, I think it was just about Max's fault, rather than a racing incident, so agree with the stewards.
I think he is reckless in wheel-to-wheel combat. And this was an example of that.
And perhaps what swung it for me is that he didn't even check Lewis was okay/stuck/still alive, as he left his car. Despite his car ending up on top of Lewis's head. Hypocritical, given his words about Lewis after the Silverstone incident.
 
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Hmm 3 place grid penalty. I think they've done that to try and defuse the situation between these two. Despite the fact they are both racing drivers who won't concede as it's there nature not to and to fight for the win regardless.
I think the FIA have been a bit of a joke this year anyway. Some of their decisions questionable..

I wouldn't have given the penalty, as yes maybe Max went up the inside wrongly, but the kerb he hit due Lewis squeezing him caused the accident. A kerb they both forgot about at that moment.
If anything I'd be given the track safety officials penalties. On any other track Max would have been the only one going off, and at that speed he would have most likely just rejoined and we'd have more exciting racing.
 
That incident between Lewis and Max is just bizarre. Max reminds me of Maldonado when he did the same thing to Lewis rather than tuck in behind when he knew he’d been beaten. This kid seems to ooze maturity at some races but then it’s absent at others, totally bizarre.

I think Max has made it clear that he will never concede a corner - NEVER. Add in he was carrying greater speed and the only reason he was where he was was due to the piss-poor pitstop and the points battle was tight enough that if Lewis finished ahead he probably would regain the WDC lead and I was under no surprise he dived in like he did.

As for Lewis, one could argue that he should know Max's modus operandi (he's seen it in action against him enough times), and yielded the corner since the AMG was faster than the RBR and he had a solid shot at overtaking him next lap. But Lewis is a Racer, as well, and he also has been pretty clear that he will fight Max for a corner when he feels it is rightfully his to fight for (which I am sure he felt was the case here).

Now, did Lewis give Max enough room? He did drift strongly left once he was past the white line (as was his right to make a move at that point) and he did leave space, but as Martin Brundle has noted on many an occasion, an F1 car is 2 meters wide so side-by-side they are 4 meters. As I understand it, the minimum track width for an F1 track is 8m and Monza varies between 10m at a minimum and 18m at its widest. I expect Lewis did give Max at least 2 meters, but probably not much more and of course they were approaching a sharp turn where the radii probably made the "effective width" a fair bit less. Plus add in the car turning and sliding and such and, IMO, Max did not have sufficient room once at the corner to clear Lewis.

So, does this mean Max is at fault for trying a corner he did not have enough room to make? Or is is Lewis for not giving Max more room to allow a safer side-by-side entrance? Or is it a bit of both (which would make it a "Racing Incident" in my mind).

Sausage curb at fault, 100% 😉

It certainly played a major contributing factor, IMO. Also playing a major contributing factor is the sharpness and tightness of the Variante del Rettifilo, which IMO is way too tight for cars approaching from near top-end on the main straight.

There were plans in 2016 to replace the Variante del Rettifilo and the Curve Grande with a new fast right hand kink entering the old Pirelli circuit and into a new, faster chicane, but they were cancelled due to issue with securing the necessary permits due to environmental concerns.


Disappointing hearing Toto, Damon Hill & Johnny Herbert suggesting Max might have deliberately took Lewis out.

Unlike Adelaide 1994 (or Jerez 1997), this race didn't determine the Championship, fellas. :p

I was disappointed to see Max walk away without checking Lewis was ok as the Red Bull sat on top of the halo. Obviously very frustrated, unless he was advised over the radio Lewis was ok? I know when Max had his huge accident at Silverstone, Lewis asked before the end of the lap if he was ok.

Looking at the replays, when Max walked by you could clearly see Lewis moving in the cockpit and he was trying to back his AMG out from under the RBR so it was clear to me (and likely to Max) that Lewis was physically okay even if he had not heard over the radio his status. And with Lewis trying to extricate his car, it would have been dangerous for Max to approach.
 
Having watched it a few times from different angles, and the lead up to it, I think it was just about Max's fault, rather than a racing incident, so agree with the stewards.
I think he is reckless in wheel-to-wheel combat. And this was an example of that.
And perhaps what swung it for me is that he didn't even check Lewis was okay/stuck/still alive, as he left his car. Despite his car ending up on top of Lewis's head. Hypocritical, given his words about Lewis after the Silverstone incident.
I'll tell you what is hypocritical, it's when Lewis pushes Max off the track earlier in the year putting Max in hospital for checks, but also causing the RB engine to be totalled thus meaning another engine to be taken thus taking grid place penalties for it and the cost coming out of RB's budget which is capped for all teams, and NO grid place penalties for Lewis despite the FIA blaming him for the incident.
Yet Max crashes today causing superficial damage to Lewis's car and gets a 3 grid place penalty.

Yeah that's hypocritical IMO. Maybe as I said they have taken that decision to try and defuse the situation, but also it's manipulating the outcome of the championship potentially too, through what some would call questionable decisions.
 
I'll tell you what is hypocritical, it's when Lewis pushes Max off the track earlier in the year putting Max in hospital for checks, but also causing the RB engine to be totalled thus meaning another engine to be taken thus taking grid place penalties for it and the cost coming out of RB's budget which is capped for all teams, and NO grid place penalties for a Lewis.
Yet Max crashes today causing superficial damage to Lewis's car and gets a 3 grid place penalty.

Yeah that's hypocritical IMO. Maybe as I said they have taken that decision to try and defuse the situation, but also it's manipulating the outcome of the championship potentially too.

Max was as much to blame for his Silverstone crash as has been gone over many times. I didn’t agree with a 5 second penalty then and I don’t agree with Max’s penalty here. Both were racing incidents where both drivers were to some degree at fault. I think both could have avoided this but the better judgement failed today.

The over dramatisation of the Silverstone crash was nauseating and typical Horner. We’ve moved on from that tripe thank goodness
 
That's because Lewis received his penalty during the race.

And so this should have been seen as what it was today, a racing incident or put points on Max's licence and fine RB, Lewis got points on his licence for his incident, let's not forget he was still in the race.
If your applying the rules fairly then you need to do so. Their are other avenues then grid place penalties.
Although yes the situation at that time meant he just got a time penalty.
Just not sure about grid place penalties for today's indident.
 
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Max was as much to blame for his Silverstone crash as has been gone over many times. I didn’t agree with a 5 second penalty then and I don’t agree with Max’s penalty here. Both were racing incidents where both drivers were to some degree at fault. I think both could have avoided this but the better judgement failed today.

The over dramatisation of the Silverstone crash was nauseating and typical Horner. We’ve moved on from that tripe thank goodness

Oh I agree Horner went on a bit, but I think he did that exactly due to their engine being toast as a result and probably feeling the punishment was too light for that outcome (for me that WAS Lewis's fault). But I don't think it's in the rules, perhaps it should be to take it into account?

If the two of them are going to race they need to race and put all the politics away, if that's ever possible in F1.

Anyway onto the next one. 8 more to go! I think. When are we going to see next years cars?
 
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Oh I agree Horner went on a bit, but I think he did that exactly due to their engine being toast as a result and probably feeling the punishment was too light for that outcome. But I do t think it's in the rules, perhaps it should be to take it into account?

I do think teams should share the cost in these incidents.

For me the FIA stewards have made poor decisions since I started following F1 in the 80’s. I saw a flashback to 2008 the other day and the FIA really didn’t want McLaren winning that championship and spent years favouring Ferrari. Massa getting a 5 second penalty at the end of the race for an unsafe pit release which had no effect on him finishing and Sutil gets a stop and go. The rules have never been followed fairly in my opinion and I think ‘the show’ is considered rather than being fair.

Unfortunately I think when £15m race cars crash, they cost money and I’m not sure that could be fairly translated to the driver/team in every crash. If a driver is pulling out of an overtake because they are worried it might be a £1m mistake, that could impact the racing overall. Maybe repair bills can be analysed and if a driver is solely to blame, then it might be a different story.
 
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I do think teams should share the cost in these incidents.

For me the FIA stewards have made poor decisions since I started following F1 in the 80’s. I saw a flashback to 2008 the other day and the FIA really didn’t want McLaren winning that championship and spent years favouring Ferrari. Massa getting a 5 second penalty at the end of the race for an unsafe pit release which had no effect on him finishing and Sutil gets a stop and go. The rules have never been followed fairly in my opinion and I think ‘the show’ is considered rather than being fair.

Unfortunately I think when £15m race cars crash, they cost money and I’m not sure that could be fairly translated to the driver/team in every crash. If a driver is pulling out of an overtake because they are worried it might be a £1m mistake, that could impact the racing overall. Maybe repair bills can be analysed and if a driver is solely to blame, then it might be a different story.

A very considered comment, put it better then I could.
I hope next years changes will help to control the costs.
The drivers certainly don't consider the carbon fibre when racing!
 
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No wonder Hamilton is on painkillers for a headache. This is where the car rolled off the hoop! I knew it had hit his head but that’s some weight . The halo did it’s job.

20a31942014a7f05b65c0c5413207540.jpg


It’s scary to think that in the 4 years we’ve had the halo, there have been quite a few incidents where drivers could have been seriously injured or worse.
 
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. . . It’s scary to think that in the 4 years we’ve had the halo, there have been quite a few incidents where drivers could have been seriously injured or worse.
Amen to that! There was quite a bit of fussing about when the halo and other alternatives were first proposed and then implemented. It didn't take very long for everyone to get used to the look of the halo and now appreciate the value it provides.

I still feel the shock and heartache from Senna's crash, and the others we've all experienced. It is thrilling to watch these cars race at such high speeds, it is still very risky but the safety keeps improving as well and it isn't detracting from our enjoyment of the sport.
 
So let’s start with the good stuff. Great result for McLaren. Daniel was the winner today and not just gifted the win because of the crash. He drove an excellent race.
Norris also did an amazing job. I’d have lived to see him get the win as well if possible!
Bottas drove incredibly well. Unfortunate he couldn’t get past Perez. If the stewards thought there was an issue, they should have made him give the place back on the track.
Now for the incident. I’m inclined to call it a racing incident. But if I had to apply blame I think it’s slightly more Max’s fault than Lewis. Lewis was ahead. Where was he supposed to go. I don’t think those orange curbs helped.
The halo did it’s job today so glad no one was injured. Hope Lewis doesn’t lose engine parts as well (but suspect he might).
Anyway I enjoyed seeing the McLaren 1-2.
 
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