They don't need to see the footage, they have access to ALL the cars sensors and can see steering input and if the cars sliding and throttle etc at the time of the incident. Cheeky move by Max but don't count in it being deliberate just cause we can't see the video of his steering wheel.
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2021 Formula 1 Season Thread
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They don't need to see the footage, they have access to ALL the cars sensors and can see steering input and if the cars sliding and throttle etc at the time of the incident. Cheeky move by Max but don't count in it being deliberate just cause we can't see the video of his steering wheel.
The FIA didn’t look into any aspect of it before ruling out an investigation. No telemetry or ‘sensors’ were checked. Michael Masi saw it live and decided no further action was needed. This is why the rules in F1 are so subjective and teams struggle to interpret what is acceptable. Perez and Norris have both been penalised for running competitors wide off the race track this year. Masi said no action was taken because they didn’t have access to the footage in the aftermath of the incident and it was decided to apply the ‘let them race’ initiative with this absence of evidence. Had they had this, I think it’s possible Max would have got a penalty, but what is done is done and contesting it now is pointless.
I don’t think penalising Max would have been good for business at this point in the championship.
They have instant access to hundreds of streams of information you never see. They were more then confident to make their judgment on the mountain of evidence they had available. Your comment is pure opinion and speculation.
Michael Masi said they only have access to the broadcast stream and it is ‘his’ decision whether it goes to the stewards or not. The stewards have access to the extra streams, not the race director. My comment is based on the race reports and the interview Masi gave actually, and I understand the process thank you very much. The stewards don’t decide for the race director what incidents are investigated, it is the other way around for your information. Why do you think teams are in conversation with the race director whenever they want clarification or to report an incident? Teams don’t get direct access to argue with the panel of stewards and never have unless summoned post race.
Masi took the decision at the time not to investigate it and it was judged by the transmitted footage. The additional footage that was available later in the race was not viewed or analysed by his own admission.
One of the many articles on this:
FIA did not look at Verstappen onboard before ruling out investigation
www.autosport.com
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My feeling regarding the incident between Verstappen and Hamilton is that there was no contact, both cars went off the track but maintained position, and it did not stop Lewis from finally taking the lead and winning the race. Super aggressive on the part of both drivers and the kind of racing I would expect to see when they are both fighting for the championship.
Quite a weekend for Hamilton. I also think that Max will end up with the championship but it will be a fight to the last race, in all likelihood. Good to see two competitive teams and drivers fighting it out.
Quite a weekend for Hamilton. I also think that Max will end up with the championship but it will be a fight to the last race, in all likelihood. Good to see two competitive teams and drivers fighting it out.
Would be a hell of a lot more fun if it were more than 2 teams year after year. Full disclosure, I am heavily Honda Biased, but my point remains.
I’m hopeful 2022 will bring more players to the podium.
Honestly even if they had pinged Max with a 5 or 10 second penalty it would not have made any difference since once Lewis was past him, he motored off into the distance. So not like a penalty would have changed the outcome of the race.
And considering how much the stewards have seemed to work to not let people race, I'm okay with them not calling Max out (or Lewis, if he had been the aggressor) since he didn't really benefit - yes, Lewis was farther behind for a short while, but he was so much faster than Max when he had the tow it was just a matter of time and Lewis had more than enough laps to get the pass done.
And considering how much the stewards have seemed to work to not let people race, I'm okay with them not calling Max out (or Lewis, if he had been the aggressor) since he didn't really benefit - yes, Lewis was farther behind for a short while, but he was so much faster than Max when he had the tow it was just a matter of time and Lewis had more than enough laps to get the pass done.
It certainly would be cool to have multiple teams competing regularly I agree. We have had 6 different winning drivers this year though so it’s a bit more mixed up than in recent years. It’s been a scrappy year in many ways too.
I'm rather hoping next year with the rule changes we get to see McLaren and Ferrari battle it out with Mercedes and Red Bull, that would be my dream 4 team battle, alas I'm not so sure it'll ever happen.
Michael Masi said they only have access to the broadcast stream and it is ‘his’ decision whether it goes to the stewards or not. The stewards have access to the extra streams, not the race director. My comment is based on the race reports and the interview Masi gave actually, and I understand the process thank you very much. The stewards don’t decide for the race director what incidents are investigated, it is the other way around for your information. Why do you think teams are in conversation with the race director whenever they want clarification or to report an incident? Teams don’t get direct access to argue with the panel of stewards and never have unless summoned post race.
Masi took the decision at the time not to investigate it and it was judged by the transmitted footage. The additional footage that was available later in the race was not viewed or analysed by his own admission.
One of the many articles on this:
FIA did not look at Verstappen onboard before ruling out investigation
Thank you for the link, in this case then it seems it was a decision to let them race, which the drivers want anyway apparently.
But that's some useful information as I thought the Race Director had all the live streams. I guess only the stewards do for more control of it and more secure access from other teams seeing it.
After major rule changes, typically one team will have got the design right, whilst the others play catch up. I’m expecting the gaps to be bigger next year.
If it had been a driver from the back of the grid it would have been a penalty. But there seems to be a different set of rules for Max. Let them race is what we all want. But if it’s dirty, then that’s not racing.
So Mercedes have asked the FIA to review the turn 4 incident. I don’t think Red Bull can really complain after the Silverstone complaints. I’ve seen suggestions Max understeered beyond the apex much like Hamilton did at Silverstone which for me is a racing incident. However, if those supporting Max think it’s the same, why should one be punished and not the other? Even if you just add 5 seconds to Max’s time and take out the pit entry/exit time Lewis served in Silverstone, you’ve got a P3 instead of a P2 and that’s valuable points.
I don’t like things like this days after the event, but it’s a competitive sport and Red Bull are notorious for persistent evaluations and clarifications on rulings. I think Mercedes have to try their luck here otherwise it could come back to bite. I don’t doubt the FIA will let it go though.
I don’t like things like this days after the event, but it’s a competitive sport and Red Bull are notorious for persistent evaluations and clarifications on rulings. I think Mercedes have to try their luck here otherwise it could come back to bite. I don’t doubt the FIA will let it go though.
Should the FIA determine that Max's move was an actionable offense, I would prefer that no penalties be applied retroactively.
Instead, I would like to see the FIA direct Race Stewards to consider such moves in the future as actionable when reviewing them during (or immediately after) the race.
That way, we don't end up with the possibility of a WDC or WCC being affected by a ruling weeks after a race, but it puts the drivers on notice that "the Stewards are watching" and they take such actions in the future at their own risk.
Instead, I would like to see the FIA direct Race Stewards to consider such moves in the future as actionable when reviewing them during (or immediately after) the race.
That way, we don't end up with the possibility of a WDC or WCC being affected by a ruling weeks after a race, but it puts the drivers on notice that "the Stewards are watching" and they take such actions in the future at their own risk.
not sure i agree it would not make any difference. Bottas might end up second and Max third. Which would be a whole lot of difference.
Well I was referring more to Lewis winning. And honestly, Max would have been more than able to pass Bottas (again) if they had hit him with a penalty during his pit stop.
Only if the stewards had chosen to look at the incident after the race could it have been an issue, and I expect RBR and Max would have pushed as necessary to give them the clearance to survive it by the checkered flag.
Both teams are clearly expecting a very close championship to the very last lap, witness all of the special efforts being made to quickly change tires and dash out for a fast lap, as one example.
I still remember the hugely painful end to the 2008 season when Filipe Massa ended up one point short of Hamilton after Lewis passed Timo Glock on the second-to-last corner of the race! My gosh that was such a huge disappointment and it sure would have been nice for Felipe to have won the championship that year.
I still remember the hugely painful end to the 2008 season when Filipe Massa ended up one point short of Hamilton after Lewis passed Timo Glock on the second-to-last corner of the race! My gosh that was such a huge disappointment and it sure would have been nice for Felipe to have won the championship that year.
The scenes of Massa’s family celebrating and then the realisation that it hadn’t happened are fresh in my memory. Was that really 13 years ago? How time flies.
Part of me really hope Max wins the championship as I think the backlash across the F1 forums, social media will be unbearable. All we’ll hear is about Silverstone again and how Mercedes have cheated, when in reality we’ve seen a very close and competitive season. I don’t think anything will come of the Brazil review to be honest, even if they believe like many of us that the incident wasn’t entirely accidental. I don’t think it would be good for the sport to mess with the result when the championship is now so close.
I just hope Bottas can finish second behind Lewis in the next race. We are often told it’s all about the car with Lewis and that anybody could convert that car to as many victories as he’s achieved. Let’s see Bottas prove this opinion right for once.
I just hope Bottas can finish second behind Lewis in the next race. We are often told it’s all about the car with Lewis and that anybody could convert that car to as many victories as he’s achieved. Let’s see Bottas prove this opinion right for once.
Sadly I think we will hear those type of grumblings no matter who wins the title.
It has been a very close title run and wouldn't it be funny if the ones who were found cheating were RBR?
I mean where did they find the pace? How did they suddenly get up front on such a consistent basis? Is it all be cause of the new regulations(2022) and the lack of development on the 2021 chassis?
If so, why hasn't any other team also gotten caught up?
I have to say that’s your opinion on the rules then, because I’ve seen Lewis get away with more then Max does. And if you wanted to see dirty you’d know the politics Mercedes play behind the scenes.
Perhaps you should look at this video if you believe certain rules apply to certain drivers?
I don’t recall Sebastian getting a single fine…
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Exactly, look at European football, even the World Cup, lots of decisions people claim are questionable yet they are always dealt with there and then and hardly ever if ever after the match. F1 shouldn’t be any different. Deal with it all on the day of the race.
They had to try it as Red Bull are the most prolific team for seeking clarification and reporting other teams. It’s political.
The onboard footage from Verstappen’s car shows some things that were not available at the time when Masi dismissed the incident. It doesn’t show Max encountering any understeer and shows him missing the apex by well over a metre. There’s no locked inside wheel, no steering movement indicating correction and a wider run off. I can see why so many ex F1 drivers and F1 journalists are saying what they are saying and Mercedes need to play Horner at his own game here. It won’t get the outcome it deserved on race day but hopefully it’s a political distraction.
Oh I know ’and hear’ all about Mercedes’ politics, some of it dirty too and stuff the public don’t hear about, but that’s F1, just as much about politics as it the racing.
To me I saw nothing in the video that made Max bad, he was defending as he should and probably missed his braking point looking at Lewis, if he did anything else then what he did do then he probably would have hit Lewis, and all he did was delay the inevitable anyway.
We need Max to win the next race to keep the hopes of it going to the last race alive.
I’m also very keen to see next years season to see how the new cars overtake. And looking further to 2024 I hope Sky lose their rights to exclusive live races, I know a few teams aren’t happy about Skys monopoly on the sport, hopefully Amazon or someone will out bid them, make it cheaper to watch then and bring it to more people.
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