Max left miles of room, the Sky ex F1 drivers stated so, you could hear Lewis slow down as much as Max did, if Max had a fault Lewis would still have hit him would you blame Max then too? Sorry but for me Lewis hit Max and it was his fault and Mercedes and the Race Director.
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2021 Formula 1 Season Thread
- Thread starter pachyderm
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Max left miles of room, the Sky ex F1 drivers stated so, you could hear Lewis slow down as much as Max did, if Max had a fault Lewis would still have hit him would you blame Max then too? Sorry but for me Lewis hit Max and it was his fault and Mercedes and the Race Director.
I couldn’t disagree with you more. I don’t care what those clowns on Sky say to be honest, I don’t rate their content at all. The 5Live team are much less biased and having watched the incident myself, Max made a hash of it. Room on either side or not, the slipstream was in progress and he lifted off the power causing the accident. That’s poor driving and it’s becoming apparent Max is not a competitor you can trust at high speeds. This season has been littered with contacts and more so than we’ve seen for quite a few years. It’s his first time under pressure in a title fight and the driver today who handled the pressure best, won.
Shambles is one way of describing it! If it were a football match the chants from both teams would be 'you don't know what you're doing'!
I think it's the best result though and sets up Abu Dhabi perfectly. That said, I can see it ending with them both in the wall and the championship decided in the steward's room rather than the track, which would be a travesty.
Why did Max need to slow down so much and so quickly to let Lewis overtake? Made no sense, although much of the 'race' didn't!
I think it's the best result though and sets up Abu Dhabi perfectly. That said, I can see it ending with them both in the wall and the championship decided in the steward's room rather than the track, which would be a travesty.
Why did Max need to slow down so much and so quickly to let Lewis overtake? Made no sense, although much of the 'race' didn't!
Sky is full of biased presenters towards Lewis actually, but hey if you want to ignore ex F1 championship winning drivers like Damon Hill who has constantly criticised Max even flat out accusing him of cheating be my guest. I think you'll find Mercedes' can't handle the pressure either looking at Toto's reaction smashing his headphones.
Max didn't do anything wrong, I think we will find the stewards aide with him.
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A couple of points I want to make, all of them say “I fully disagree”. Max made room, Lewis missed the provided opportunity, then came the chaos. All caused by miscommunication. But sure, give Max the blame because he has less experience? This race was a mess because of a lot of factors, most of them being track design and race direction.
It’s not that I choose to ignore them, I simply don’t watch them due to the fact they are broadcasting to a minority behind a paywall. Their views are irrelevant to me because they are effectively out of sight. Not really my problem.
I think Toto can handle the pressure in all honesty, he’s managed a team who have won 14 world championships under him. His record speaks for itself and he is currently the most successful TP on the grid. Smashing a set of headphones is something done out of frustration and something we’ve seen many do over the years, well those of us that have been watching for longer than this year of course. I disagree with your opinion on Max and stand firm.
It’s a rubbish track in a dreadful country I agree, but brake checking a driver who is slip steaming at those speeds isn’t the following drivers fault. It never has been and never will be thankfully. You two don’t have to agree with me and I’ve got not issue with that.
Max 'always' gets the blame. No matter what, I really hope he wins next weekend.
Well said. It’s a bit like a DC move back in time in Spa but without the track conditions to justify it.
Well the stewards have completely penalised Max for Lewis hitting him... 2 drivers points and a 10 second penalty. Even though they fully ad it Lewis didn't want to overtake before the DRS line. Make if it what you will, I wonder if Max broke down and Lewis hit him if they'd disqualify Max for 3 races...
www.formula1.com
Max Verstappen handed further 10-second penalty for Lap 37 collision with Lewis Hamilton in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®
Max Verstappen has been handed a 10-second penalty for causing a Turn 27 collision with Lewis Hamilton in the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, plus two penalty points.
Well the stewards have completely penalised Max for Lewis hitting him... 2 drivers points and a 10 second penalty. Even though they fully ad it Lewis didn't want to overtake before the DRS line. Make if it what you will, I wonder if Max broke down and Lewis hit him if they'd disqualify Max for 3 races...
Max Verstappen handed further 10-second penalty for Lap 37 collision with Lewis Hamilton in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®
Max Verstappen has been handed a 10-second penalty for causing a Turn 27 collision with Lewis Hamilton in the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, plus two penalty points.
I don’t find anything about 2 driver points deducted in the article. A convenient 10 sec penalty for erratic braking, which has no real effect on the points at all.
What a shambles. With all the technology in F1 you’d have thought the radio would be a bit better.
With Lewis still technically behind Max, I could just see this being decided on turn one. Max has again made it clear you can’t drive around him. He will run you off the track. Lewis did well to avoid him on lap 37.
Brake check. For me Max should have been one side or the other. When he’s passing blue flag back markers, they don’t slow down in the middle of the track. Go left or right.
It was just fortunate they were both able to finish.
The worst part of the race was all the moaning and complaining to the race director. Can we just have a clean race with overtaking decided on the track.
With Lewis still technically behind Max, I could just see this being decided on turn one. Max has again made it clear you can’t drive around him. He will run you off the track. Lewis did well to avoid him on lap 37.
Brake check. For me Max should have been one side or the other. When he’s passing blue flag back markers, they don’t slow down in the middle of the track. Go left or right.
It was just fortunate they were both able to finish.
The worst part of the race was all the moaning and complaining to the race director. Can we just have a clean race with overtaking decided on the track.
Ah I see and misunderstood you. Another toothless penalty for Max behaviour. Corporate created suspense for the last race.
From the overhead shots, Max did leave more than a car-widths space to his left, but IMO, Max remains at fault for the incident.
My view is that Max was slowing down gradually to charge his battery and he wanted Lewis to pass him before the DRS detection line because he wanted to be able to jump Lewis the second he passed him like he did earlier to meet the Letter of the Law, if not the Spirit, and wanted battery boost and DRS to assist.
I don't think Max brake-checked Lewis because that was more risky to Max than to Lewis - it could have broken Max's car while Lewis would have suffered nose and wing damage and been able to immediately jump into the pits for a new one.
What I do think happened was Max saw Lewis was not going to pass him before the DRS detection line so he slowed harder to force Lewis to pass him. And I believe that is why he moved left because he expected Lewis to sling-shot past him and then he could tuck in behind him, hit the battery boost and trigger the DRS to pass Lewis before the first corner.
But being Max, he leapt before he looked and Lewis also braked hard and so Max ended up just driving in front of Lewis and the collision happened.
My view is that Max was slowing down gradually to charge his battery and he wanted Lewis to pass him before the DRS detection line because he wanted to be able to jump Lewis the second he passed him like he did earlier to meet the Letter of the Law, if not the Spirit, and wanted battery boost and DRS to assist.
I don't think Max brake-checked Lewis because that was more risky to Max than to Lewis - it could have broken Max's car while Lewis would have suffered nose and wing damage and been able to immediately jump into the pits for a new one.
What I do think happened was Max saw Lewis was not going to pass him before the DRS detection line so he slowed harder to force Lewis to pass him. And I believe that is why he moved left because he expected Lewis to sling-shot past him and then he could tuck in behind him, hit the battery boost and trigger the DRS to pass Lewis before the first corner.
But being Max, he leapt before he looked and Lewis also braked hard and so Max ended up just driving in front of Lewis and the collision happened.
I didn’t watch the race, but from what I’ve read I agree with your Abu Dhabi scenario. Very likely we will see Suzuka 1990 between Prost and Senna (Although I see Max as more of a modern day Michael Schumacher.)
Max’s relationship with the Stewards after todays post race comments would guarantee a DQ for Max.
While many see this season as terrific, I see it as a total failure of the FIA, Massi, and the Stewards to maintain consistent expectations all season.
Saudi was the crown jewel of F1 prostituting itself for monetary gain.
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The 10 second penalty doesn't affect anything, it is largely symbolic. It does make it clear that the stewards judgement was that there was fault on the part of Max.Well the stewards have completely penalised Max for Lewis hitting him... 2 drivers points and a 10 second penalty. Even though they fully ad it Lewis didn't want to overtake before the DRS line. Make if it what you will, I wonder if Max broke down and Lewis hit him if they'd disqualify Max for 3 races...
Max Verstappen handed further 10-second penalty for Lap 37 collision with Lewis Hamilton in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®
Max Verstappen has been handed a 10-second penalty for causing a Turn 27 collision with Lewis Hamilton in the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, plus two penalty points.
I've seen both points of view expressed re the incident with Lewis overtaking Max and in my opinion Lewis would have gone by to the side of Max if Verstappen hadn't slowed very abruptly and more than what normally would be expected. It applies regardless of whether or not Lewis and/or Max was informed that the stewards had ordered for Lewis to be given the position back. Lewis came up on Max very quickly but why would he be prepared for Max slowing more than any reasonable driver would do under those circumstances? Call it brake testing or not, it was unexpected and unpredictable. If Max had a mechanical failure then he would pull to the side of the track and not continue to run in the middle of the track. He stayed in the middle of the track therefore Lewis or any other driver coming up on him would reasonably assume that he was at racing pace or near enough to it. These drivers don't pull over to pass until the last minute in order to obtain the best draft. Lewis therefore came up to Max very rapidly and the slowing that Max did, beyond what Lewis would reasonably expect, resulted in the impact.
That is my logic, anyway. I think that in this instance Max was at fault, but he really lost nothing as a result, and neither did Lewis. The outcome is what would have anyway occurred given the performance of the cars and condition of the tires during the latter stages of the race.
I agree, I think Max has some similarities to Schumacher in that he has a win at all costs mentality. It doesn’t matter to him how he wins it, as long as he does. He’s a bit more arrogant off track though and this is something we never really saw from Michael. He never accepted he was wrong but never threatened to punch journalists in the face or act like a child in the press conference.
The penalty he got for the incident was hollow and again reaffirms for me the FIA are under pressure not to ruin the show. If it was earlier in the season, it would have been a much tougher penalty for sure. Still, it confirmed what many of us have been saying though that Max was at fault and caused the collision. It was such a strange way to hand the position back, gradually slowing in the middle of the track. Lewis was tucked up behind him and if he passed cleanly, he would have to do a hell of a swerve and lost momentum, but I think this was Max’s intention. Poor.
Max also seemed shocked by the 5 second penalty for a Brazil style move. All in all 15 seconds of penalties for dirty driving and he was voted by F1 fans as ‘driver of the race’. How times have changed.
Max should have just gotten out of the car and guided Hamilton to P1 with his hands in the air for Hamilton fans to be satisfied. Just be nice, that’s how you can win from the 7 time champion. Just be a number 2 driver.
People just want to see hard, clean racing. It doesn’t matter who you are a fan of, this concept shouldn’t be absurd. Condescending suggestions of ridiculous scenarios, doesn’t really solve anything. Hamilton doesn’t need his competitors to give him positions, he’s been in F1 for 14 years and has managed just fine fighting for position.
No he shouldn’t. He should just race fair and cleanly. That isn’t in Max’s DNA.
I’m loving the close title race. But you are always fearful that Max won’t concede a corner when he’s being overtaken. He’ll just drive the other guy off the track. No one wants to see that.
I hope we don’t go back to SA. You could see there were going to be a lot of crashes as the track isn’t safe for F1 imo.
I think both guys are misbehaving.
And I've read, elsewhere, that Max was trying to avoid losing the advantage of the DRS zone and so was Lewie.
I felt like the Merc was the better car all weekend.
I also feel like it will be the better car come this weekend.
And I've read, elsewhere, that Max was trying to avoid losing the advantage of the DRS zone and so was Lewie.
I felt like the Merc was the better car all weekend.
I also feel like it will be the better car come this weekend.
An undeserved penalty created to cover up the balls up Mercedes and the Race Director made because it serves no purpose, and the fact they manufactured the points before the final race...
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Bottas clearly cheating and yet receives no penalty, I'm disgusted with the FIA purposely manufacturing it so both drivers are on equal points now, it's blatantly what they did.
Looks like you'll have to watch the clip in You Tube, it's only a few seconds long.
Looks like you'll have to watch the clip in You Tube, it's only a few seconds long.