The Race posted a video covering the Cadillac F1 team progress.
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2025 Formula One Season Thread
- Thread starter The-Real-Deal82
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Just finished The Race's latest podcast video on Horner's sacking and what this means for Max and the team. Combined with all the other things I have heard and read about this, my opinion is Max is going to stay with Red Bull for 2026 and see how things shake out with all the teams under the new rules.
Max knows (almost) every other team would jump at the chance to sign him if given the opportunity to do so. Wolff will wait. Stroll will wait. Vasseur will wait. As such, he has no reason to make a decision now and it could be a mistake for him to do so. Many are predicting that AMG Powertrains will have the best engine in 2026 like they did in 2014 and maybe they will. However, let us not forget Mercedes never got a hand on the 2022 aero rules and for 2026 we have both new PSU rules and new aero rules.
Also, in 2026 Max's exit clause is said to be much lower than 2025 with him free to leave if he is not 1st or 2nd in the WDC by the end of June.
Max knows (almost) every other team would jump at the chance to sign him if given the opportunity to do so. Wolff will wait. Stroll will wait. Vasseur will wait. As such, he has no reason to make a decision now and it could be a mistake for him to do so. Many are predicting that AMG Powertrains will have the best engine in 2026 like they did in 2014 and maybe they will. However, let us not forget Mercedes never got a hand on the 2022 aero rules and for 2026 we have both new PSU rules and new aero rules.
Also, in 2026 Max's exit clause is said to be much lower than 2025 with him free to leave if he is not 1st or 2nd in the WDC by the end of June.
So don’t talk in facts and dictate what people can and can’t say when you know the same as everyone else. Nothing.
All I did was highlight that that is incorrect. That is not how the employment tribunal works, there is no such threshold. That is all. You could have chosen to say something like “Oh cool, I looked it up, and you are completely right, learned something”, but you choose a different path and keep going on about it. That is entirely your choice and has nothing to do with me.
This is F1, and surely there is a better method to have a change of leadership other than "sacked", sounds like he was the office fax operator that screwed up and sent the PDF to the wrong bloke.. From all the reports it seems that he was kind of not expecting it, or maybe not the timing of it, maybe he was thinking December 2025...
If that was the case, and this was already planned for after the last race, moving to dead July between 2 races, sort of makes a lot of sense, there will be a period of his leaving and the new bloke taking over, so the next few weeks would sort of be the best, and still focus on the 2nd half of the season from Spa onwards...
As much as I did not like him, I am grateful that he took the risk, that he built a team, and provided seasons of great competition, and yeah, ballsy move bringing in some snotty whiner from The Netherlands into RDR and yeah, 2021 will never be forgotten...
It was by far one of the most immature unprofessional childish ways to deal with a matter of change of leadership, no one should be proud of this, and regardless, I am sure he hurts just as much as a coffee shop barista does when they are fired mid shift..
If that was the case, and this was already planned for after the last race, moving to dead July between 2 races, sort of makes a lot of sense, there will be a period of his leaving and the new bloke taking over, so the next few weeks would sort of be the best, and still focus on the 2nd half of the season from Spa onwards...
As much as I did not like him, I am grateful that he took the risk, that he built a team, and provided seasons of great competition, and yeah, ballsy move bringing in some snotty whiner from The Netherlands into RDR and yeah, 2021 will never be forgotten...
It was by far one of the most immature unprofessional childish ways to deal with a matter of change of leadership, no one should be proud of this, and regardless, I am sure he hurts just as much as a coffee shop barista does when they are fired mid shift..
There are some interesting snippets of information in there that make this outfit intriguing for me. It will be interesting to see how working between the US and UK plays out, and unlike Haas, Cadillac seem invested in making sure there is a strong American link to F1. I think they are wise to keep a Silverstone facility, as it makes sure they have a strong connection to F1 valley, with a richness of suppliers and personel in the area.
What is also interesting is that they have no drivers signed yet, and are developing the car without considering preferences for who might be driving it in 2026. It will be a challenge in itself to arrive in Australia with just a few days of track testing with 2 drivers who have had little input. I think Bottas is a wise choice over Perez to be honest, but he doesn't bring Carlos Slim money with him, and unfortunately money has always talked in F1 since the very beginning.
A customer Ferrari engine and gearbox is an interesting choice, but I doubt Mercedes were allowed to supply another team. I thought all all supplied components had to be works spec and the era of Ferrari giving previous revision specs to the likes of say Sauber, were a thing of the past? It would be interesting to know how many times a customer Ferrari engine has won a Grand Prix. The only one I can think of is Monza 2008 with Vettel in a Toro Rosso. I am sure there are more, but I haven't the time to look into it. An eventual GM F1 engine is the most interesting I think. Britain seems to lead the world in engine development, which is why Mercedes and to a large extent, Renault have been so successful in the sport. Both of which either located to the UK for this purpose or in Renaults case, based a lot of their R&D here.
A very interesting project to watch and fingers crossed, it's not another Toyota or Sauber.
If Horner has been asked to leave, and it was a one sided decision, RB will be unable to force a period of 'gardening leave'. Sadly RB have shot themselves in the foot, and If I was Christian, I would insist they pay out 5.5 years of Salary + bonuses of the contract, before I agreed to anything. I suspect they have already put an offer on the table, but not agreed upon, as he is still technically employed by RB.
Unless it is gross misconduct, but Red Bull have already said in 2 internal enquiries that he had done nothing serious. He could well be leaving with an awful lot of money.
We know it's not gross misconduct, because he is still technically an employee...
I saw something interesting, it seems the Thai connection owns 51% of Red Bull GMBH, dad 49%, Son 2% and the late Dieter 49%, so if dad and son 51% want a new bloke, there is nothing anyone can do.. They are majority.. So maybe Chris farted too loud in a meeting and done.. out..
It is very sus, very, about how and why, and even if they came clean, "Do you swear to tell the truth...etc" would I believe anything from the Thai Dad and Son.. nope..
It is very sus, very, about how and why, and even if they came clean, "Do you swear to tell the truth...etc" would I believe anything from the Thai Dad and Son.. nope..
I know, and 2 investigations returned the same result that he had not done anything to qualify him being sacked.
I assume his employment contract had clauses for "all occasions" so whether he would choose to leave or him being forced to leave, there would be "gardening leave" conditions and various NDA to prevent him being hired immediately by another team (even in a "consulting" role) to do a "data dump" of where Red Bull stands now and in 2026.
Announcing the drivers towards the end of the Summer Break would probably be the best way to start the news cycle before The Circus rocks up to Zandvoort and the narrative switches to "what will Max do"? (presuming he does not announce a move before then).
Personally, I am hoping for Bottas and Perez.
PSUs must be "current version" and I presume that also means the gearbox, as well. Suspension parts can be prior years as Haas is running the 2024 Ferrari front suspension, which uses a different geometry than the 2025 edition. Not sure if the rear suspension can be different since some of the pickup points connect to the gearbox.
Usually the 'leave' options, for the employer, are either mutually agreed, or if the employees wishes to leave. The employer always has the option to remove someone, gross negligence, failure to meet kpi's, etc. I'd imagine what is occurring right now, is RB wanting Christian to take a 'sabbatical', for x period of time, (which with the new reg's coming, I doubt Christian is up to speed on RB's new tech/advantages yet), and Christian suggesting an amount of money, to make it worth his while. I think it will get nasty, and Christian will attempt to be somewhere else next year, in direct completion with RB, as he feels he's treated poorly.
Charlem Yoovidhya's 2% was placed in a Trust Company (Fides Trustees SA.) He no longer owns a controlling interest in Red Bull GmbH. The Austrian ownership was free to let Horner go. I think it has been mentioned already, but Horner is still fully under contract negotiating his severance package.
Some interesting insights from The Race in their new video.
The tl;dr is that Red Bull Corporate, Marko, Jos and others felt that Horner has consolidated too much power and control over Red Bull (including Red Bull Powertrains) and Racing Bulls and that the Thai delegation came to agree with them.
They believe Horner will make no moves until next season when it becomes clear what teams successfully navigated the 2026 rules and those that have not and he could be head-hunted by the latter.
The tl;dr is that Red Bull Corporate, Marko, Jos and others felt that Horner has consolidated too much power and control over Red Bull (including Red Bull Powertrains) and Racing Bulls and that the Thai delegation came to agree with them.
They believe Horner will make no moves until next season when it becomes clear what teams successfully navigated the 2026 rules and those that have not and he could be head-hunted by the latter.
The team was valued at around USD 900 million when they sold their 24% stake, but they are now valued at around 1.4 billion USD.
So looks like Max and Toto are in Sardinia - or at least their private plane and yacht are - so make of that hat you will.
Have to say the more I read from folks whose opinion I respect, the more I believe Max is staying with Red Bull for next year and quite possibly through 2028 (as I think he is going to want to retire by then). It is sounding more and more that Jos and Max were fed up with Christian's running of the team and his inability to give him and Sergio/Liam/Yuki a car they could consistently win in. So the writing was probably on the wall - "if Red Bull cannot deliver, we will go to a team that can" and that meant Horner had to go.
Marko's position is now secure and he can continue to support Max in getting Max's wishes handled by the technical team. And as we have seen with Lewis at Ferrari, Mercedes does things differently than Red Bull so does Max want to spend 2026 (or 2027) struggling to adapt to a new car and a new team?
This also means Yuki's position is likely safe for 2026, as well, since I expect Mekies and Permane are going to want to keep the driver lineup stable at both Red Bull and Racing Bulls to eliminate a variable as they develop the cars and powertrains.
Have to say the more I read from folks whose opinion I respect, the more I believe Max is staying with Red Bull for next year and quite possibly through 2028 (as I think he is going to want to retire by then). It is sounding more and more that Jos and Max were fed up with Christian's running of the team and his inability to give him and Sergio/Liam/Yuki a car they could consistently win in. So the writing was probably on the wall - "if Red Bull cannot deliver, we will go to a team that can" and that meant Horner had to go.
Marko's position is now secure and he can continue to support Max in getting Max's wishes handled by the technical team. And as we have seen with Lewis at Ferrari, Mercedes does things differently than Red Bull so does Max want to spend 2026 (or 2027) struggling to adapt to a new car and a new team?
This also means Yuki's position is likely safe for 2026, as well, since I expect Mekies and Permane are going to want to keep the driver lineup stable at both Red Bull and Racing Bulls to eliminate a variable as they develop the cars and powertrains.
I can’t see a situation where Lindblad isn’t in an F1 seat next season. Certainly not when Lawson isn’t showing anything special.
I just can’t see Max staying more than 1yr. The new RBPT/Ford is going to miss the mark by allot. Even with Max’s talent that won’t help a dog of a PU.
Mercedes and Honda will have the best PU’s out of the gate in 2026.
Max’s Falcon wasn’t in Sardinia very long. From the FR24 data it looked to me like he was dropped off. His yacht was there as well. Coffee with Toto then yacht back to Monaco?
No guarantees on Honda. They were behind the curve with their delay in recommitting and having to establish a new uk base. I would expect Ferrari to be ahead of them.