2025 Formula One Season Thread

[JustinePaula]

Red Bull went for a Sprint win, but then reset the car back, and as a result when the rain came, they could not change the car, Maclaren went for set up that prevented a Sprint win, but ensured a Race win...

If there is rain on Sunday, then cars should have a 20 min warm up and changes allowed, but as it stands, we were robbed of a race, we had a procession, this was just a longer Monaco, we did not have a race, we might as well had 44 laps behind the safety car.

F1 should be about racing, the parc ferme rules prevented a race, if the conditions change so much that you are no longer using tyre rules, then why not allow changes to the car.. Parc ferme should only be valid for like for like conditions, but dry Q and wet race.. make that make sense???

As a result of a stupid decision years ago, yesterday was in effect a non race... No points awarded..

 

[CWallace]

Its an idea, but how would that work in practice?

Under current Race Control directives, a Class 3 or higher Intensity rain shower triggers a Red Flag.

As such, the field would be brought in to pit lane or the starting grid in order and parked as is the procedure during a Red Flag. That would allow everyone to put on Full Wets as well as make any allowed setup changes for the conditions.

The field would then resume in order behind the Safety Car and circulate as they do now, but rather than taking the Green Flag, they would return to the pits, take on Inters, and then resume again behind the Safety Car and take the Green Flag when the SC pulls off.

 

[CWallace]

If there is rain on Sunday, then cars should have a 20 min warm up and changes allowed, but as it stands, we were robbed of a race, we had a procession, this was just a longer Monaco, we did not have a race, we might as well had 44 laps behind the safety car.

Changes made after Parc fermé need to be approved by the FIA and those changes are always done, to the best of my knowledge, on Saturday evening or Sunday morning to ensure the FIA has enough time to validate the changes and the parts and apply the anti-tamper scrutineering stickers.

Giving the field the opportunity to make wholesale component and configuration changes to the cars would have to be monitored by the FIA to ensure nobody is putting "cheater" or "unauthorized" parts on the cars. The component and setup changes themselves would take more than "20 minutes", much less the FIA sign-off on them.

There is also the two hour race limit and three hour event limit to take into account. Because there was no formal start after the Formation Lap, neither came into effect which is why the full race distance could happen even though the race started at 15:30 instead of the planned 14:00. But if the race started dry and then a Class 3+ rain event occurred, you would not be able to resume the race with wholesale setup and configuration changes within the respective time limits.

 

[pachyderm]

Red Bull went for a Sprint win, but then reset the car back, and as a result when the rain came, they could not change the car, McClaren went for set up that prevented a Sprint win, but ensured a Race win...

If there is rain on Sunday, then cars should have a 20 min warm up and changes allowed, but as it stands, we were robbed of a race, we had a procession, this was just a longer Monaco, we did not have a race, we might as well had 44 laps behind the safety car.

F1 should be about racing, the parc ferme rules prevented a race, if the conditions change so much that you are no longer using tyre rules, then why not allow changes to the car.. Parc ferme should only be valid for like for like conditions, but dry Q and wet race.. make that make sense???

As a result of a stupid decision years ago, yesterday was in effect a non race... No points awarded..

100% agreed!

They did err on the side of caution.

And I agree, they should be able to able to adjust the cars for the current race weather.

 

[CWallace]

Formula One is a sport often as much about strategy as it is performance. Red Bull played the strategy correct on Saturday (predicting a dry race and running less downforce) and did not on Sunday (predicting a wet race and running more downforce).

If we allow full setup resets when conditions change, then we take away the strategy aspect. Teams no longer have to consider the entire weekend if changeable conditions are predicted, they just set up the car for each session (FP / Qualifying / Sprint / Race) and then when the rain comes (or goes away) they do a full reset.

And with that, wet races no longer offer an opportunity to shake up the status quo like they have done because the cars will always be setup for the conditions and the best cars and drivers will continue to dominate in the wet just as they do in the dry.

If all the teams had been able to do a full reset on Sunday morning before the GP, McLaren would have still romped off because they have the best car so they would have just ensured their new wet setup ensured they were untouchable. And McLaren probably would have ripped all the downforce off the car for the Sprint knowing they could add it all back on if Sunday was wet, so Max would never have been able to pass Oscar.

 

[CWallace]

The Race weighs in on the current state of wet races.

One thing they noted that was after Silverstone, the general consensus of the drivers was that the FIA had been too timid in deploying the Safety Car and Red Flagging the race during heavy rain showers (Class 3 Intensity). So drivers including Russell and Sainz approved of the Spa race start being cancelled and a long Red Flag session followed with a longish time behind the Safety Car before a rolling start. Other drivers, including Verstappen and Lewis, felt that conditions were acceptable for racing much earlier and that there was no need for an almost 90 minute Red Flag session followed by having the field trundle along behind the Safety Car until a dry line was starting to form along much of the track's length.

 

[JustinePaula]

My only issue is that at this point the regs conflict... Sprints have a value if used correctly, and with changing conditions, we saw 2 teams, 2 very different decisions, 2 very different outcomes, combined with the confusing regs...

With rain, there is no mandatory 2 compound, so if you are going to abandon the 2 dry tyre mandatory rule when it rains, then a 20 minute warm up and change the car to suit, this gives the race director data, it improves the cars for the conditions, we have a fair equal race, and no one can point the blame at the FIA..

Right now it feels wrong that MacLaren won, as they really had no one to compete against, and I hate more than anything processions, I want to see like v like, and who is the best, Spa is a brilliant track, and under drying conditions, Red Bull v MacLaren with the same wing, or close to, that is wet set up v wet set up, then race, NICE, YES twice on Sunday...

But we cannot have nice things, I wonder what is the fear? F1 is way too regulated, yes I can understand no changes in parc ferme conditions, but then it has to be to maintain Q finish with R start.. But when the conditions are so drastic, and there is no way to change the cars, it destroys the very event you are there for, might as well award points on the finish order of Q3 or FP3...

Call it Japan Race Rules, we have seen this a couple of times when in Japan, Q is on the Sunday, early before the PM race, so there is no reason to not have a 20 min session, this 20 min is time to set the car, and do a couple of laps, this does 2 things, sets the cars for the conditions, and gives the crowd something to watch before..

FIA be brave...

 

[Apple fanboy]

The Race weighs in on the current state of wet races.

One thing they noted that was after Silverstone, the general consensus of the drivers was that the FIA had been too timid in deploying the Safety Car and Red Flagging the race during heavy rain showers (Class 3 Intensity). So drivers including Russell and Sainz approved of the Spa race start being cancelled and a long Red Flag session followed with a longish time behind the Safety Car before a rolling start. Other drivers, including Verstappen and Lewis, felt that conditions were acceptable for racing much earlier and that there was no need for an almost 90 minute Red Flag session followed by having the field trundle along behind the Safety Car until a dry line was starting to form along much of the track's length.

Always going to be that those that thrive in the wet (Max and Lewis), will think they can raise earlier than the others. Especially as neither is in the best car, so they need every advantage they can get.

Sky reporting that George is about to get a multi year contract. I hope so as I think he has earned it.

 

[JustinePaula]

Race start cancelled would lead to a whole lot of litigation, so I doubt a cancelled start would be viable...
Yes there was an issue with visibility, this was seen in the cancelled F3 race in which a number of cars crashed as a result of the lack of visibility...

Did the FIA wait too long? Yes, but the bigger issue is one of the fitness of the cars for the conditions and to ensure a viable optimal like for like race? NO.. As noted they waited way too long, and could have allowed [of course regs don't] for the changing of wings, they had more than enough time, but they were not sure of duration of the race suspension...

The FIA very rarely commit to confirmed times until too late.. So if the FIA race director had stated we well suspend for 90 minutes, and cars can be amended.. [Which will never happen, why can we not have nice things in F1..] We were left with confusion, cars unfit for conditions and a useless event that no one is proud of.. We had 1 overtake in 44 laps.. Yay!!!

 

[droplink]

Under current Race Control directives, a Class 3 or higher Intensity rain shower triggers a Red Flag.

As such, the field would be brought in to pit lane or the starting grid in order and parked as is the procedure during a Red Flag. That would allow everyone to put on Full Wets as well as make any allowed setup changes for the conditions.

The field would then resume in order behind the Safety Car and circulate as they do now, but rather than taking the Green Flag, they would return to the pits, take on Inters, and then resume again behind the Safety Car and take the Green Flag when the SC pulls off.

So, you want to do this under a red flag condition.
Stop all cars (on track or in the pits, no matter) as they would do anyway.
Have all cars change to "free" full wet tires.
Drive behind safety car for 3/4 laps, stop again, swap back to "their own" tires and then restart?

Rather than doing that whole rigmarole, would it not then be better to have 3 or 4 trucks on standby with oversized leafblowers doing a lap or two to sweep the track clear of water and then have the F1 cars restarted?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Have the third drivers drive round in road cars drying the racing line. Might be fun for the people at the circuit and dry it out quicker.

 

[CWallace]

Rather than doing that whole rigmarole, would it not then be better to have 3 or 4 trucks on standby with oversized leafblowers doing a lap or two to sweep the track clear of water and then have the F1 cars restarted?

Those trucks were present and in use at Spa. They did not seem very effective, whereas a half-dozen "race laps" on Inters dried the track to the point slick tires were not only optimal, but mandatory.

 

[CWallace]

Race start cancelled would lead to a whole lot of litigation, so I doubt a cancelled start would be viable...

The race start was cancelled. This is why the three hour Event Rule did not come into effect and we were able to get in a full race rather than having a timed event.

So if the FIA race director had stated we well suspend for 90 minutes, and cars can be amended.. [Which will never happen, why can we not have nice things in F1..] We were left with confusion, cars unfit for conditions and a useless event that no one is proud of.. We had 1 overtake in 44 laps.. Yay!!!

Spa is always a procession in the dry, so if the FIA had allowed the teams to all switch to a dry low-downforce setup with new wings and suspension settings, we likely would not have even had the single overtake we did. The only driver who actually made moves was Lewis and he only did so because most of the people in front of him were on lower downforce setups and were struggling in the early wet conditions. Once the track dried and he caught Alex Albon, who was on a low-downforce dry setup, he could not make any impact (though, to be fair Ferrari has had trouble passing a Williams even when both are on dry setups ).

 

[Herdfan]

Its an idea, but how would that work in practice?

Imagine you have a race and declared wet:
You bring out the safety car and then ALL the drivers (20 cars!) all have to dart into the pit at the same time, change tires to the "free" set, line up and plod behind the safety car for a number of laps, then drive into the pits again to change back to "their own" tires and then re-arrange themselves to be in the EXACT order they were before the race was declared wet and then restart.

It's sadly an unfeasible idea.

If the rednecks in NASCAR can do this, surely F1 can figure out a way.

 

[Apple fanboy]

If the rednecks in NASCAR can do this, surely F1 can figure out a way.

Don’t they have wipers though?

 

[pachyderm]

If the rednecks in NASCAR can do this, surely F1 can figure out a way.

They don't do that though.

They stopped the Brickyard 400 this weekend because of rain in just one end, turns one and two, of the track.

It took about 30 minutes or so to dry. they just kept looping in turns one and two and then down into the pit lane and back out again.

They do have better "drying trucks" than F1 it seems.

 

[Glideslope]

Always going to be that those that thrive in the wet (Max and Lewis), will think they can raise earlier than the others. Especially as neither is in the best car, so they need every advantage they can get.

Sky reporting that George is about to get a multi year contract. I hope so as I think he has earned it.

Kimi getting a 1+1. Bottas, “I remember how that went.”

George’s contract will be all about the Performance Clauses. They could make it a 1+1.

 

[CWallace]

Sky reporting that George is about to get a multi year contract. I hope so as I think he has earned it.

Max scored enough points over Russell in Spa to ensure that Russell could not pass Max for 3rd in the WDC this weekend in Hungary. As such, the 2026 "escape clause" cannot be triggered and it is reported that Mercedes is not willing to spend the $100 million or more required to buy Max out of his contract for next year.

As such, Max will not be available before 2027 and I expect either one-plus-one contracts for both Russell and Antonelli or a two-year for Russell and a 1+1 for Kimi to allow for a possible Max signing in 2027, as the "escape clause" requires Max to be 1st or 2nd by the Summer break.

 

[Glideslope]

Max scored enough points over Russell in Spa to ensure that Russell could not pass Max for 3rd in the WDC this weekend in Hungary. As such, the 2026 "escape clause" cannot be triggered and it is reported that Mercedes is not willing to spend the $100 million or more required to buy Max out of his contract for next year.

As such, Max will not be available before 2027 and I expect either one-plus-one contracts for both Russell and Antonelli or a two-year for Russell and a 1+1 for Kimi to allow for a possible Max signing in 2027, as the "escape clause" requires Max to be 1st or 2nd by the Summer break.

I still see the performance clauses in George’s contract as the key. Not whether it’s a 1+1 or a 2+1. I’m just not convinced a George/Max Team is what Toto wants.

 

[droplink]

Those trucks were present and in use at Spa. They did not seem very effective, whereas a half-dozen "race laps" on Inters dried the track to the point slick tires were not only optimal, but mandatory.

That is because the race was delayed till the rain had stopped.
And the trucks took out maybe 70% of the water that was there, leaving the F1 cars to take the last 30%...

 

[CWallace]

I still see the performance clauses in George’s contract as the key. Not whether it’s a 1+1 or a 2+1. I’m just not convinced a George/Max Team is what Toto wants.

I have to admit I see such a pairing more like Lewis and Rosberg than Lewis and Bottas.

 

[Glideslope]

I have to admit I see such a pairing more like Lewis and Rosberg than Lewis and Bottas.

Agreed. Do Toto and the BOD want to go through that again? The game is different in 2025.

 

[Glideslope]

Just thought I would post this for any Chris Harris fans in here. Great Auto Enthusiasts video. Shows the side of Max we really don't get to see as well......

 

[CWallace]

In addition to Max staying at Red Bull, Fred is staying at Ferrari.

Ferrari agree new multi-year contract with Vasseur

Ferrari have confirmed that they have renewed Team Principal Fred Vasseur's contract with the squad ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix.

www.formula1.com

 

[Herdfan]

Don’t they have wipers though?

No. They don't race in the rain. At all.

They don't do that though.

They stopped the Brickyard 400 this weekend because of rain in just one end, turns one and two, of the track.

It took about 30 minutes or so to dry. they just kept looping in turns one and two and then down into the pit lane and back out again.

They do have better "drying trucks" than F1 it seems.

I have seen them use the jet dryers to get most of the water off the track and then bring out the field under caution and just do laps so the heat from the cars helps dry the track as well.