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I just want to point out that, as written, you said the Apple TV has a crappy UI, terrible OS maintenance, app support and near inexistent developer community. I beg to differ; it has a good UI, great OS maintenance, great app support, and a huge developer community. Just about the only bad part is the very awkward remote control.

I did NOT say that. I said the exact opposite. Read again, mate. Also updated so that it can't be misunderstood.
 
I personally like the remote... I tried the Roku first (whatever the top of the line version was), and found the remote to be ugly and clunky. It reminded me of my toddlers' toys which I did not like. The Apple TV remote's touch pad is awesome as it allows me to rapidly navigate, and the mic is by far the best feature.
 
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I think these (surprising) results may be explained by the very different natures (individual vs group) of the devices. In a family of five people where there is one Apple TV for the family television and one person owns AirPods, a survey sent to each person could very easily conclude that there are five Apple customers using an Apple TV and one using AirPods. This isn't untrue, but it would be at least confusing (at most blatantly misleading) to say from my example that "100% of Apple customers own an Apple TV and 20% own AirPods." So the 25% of Apple TV owners quoted in the survey could easily include so-called "double counting" and certainly would not necessarily mean that more Apple TVs are being sold than pairs of AirPods. Same for the HomePod. The survey also doesn't talk about frequency of use, which would be important for considering market penetration.

But it would not be wrong. My wife and I we both own iPhones and we share an Apple TV. So both Apple customers own an Apple TV. The wording may be not clear but it’s not wrong.
 
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It is not the best remote out there but it is fine. There is no need to bash the remote because you can use any remote and this has been pointed out hundreds of times if not thousands yet people still come here and complain.

I agree with this, it certainly isn't the best or worst, but ultimately I use a Harmony remote as it covers all my devices.
 
We bought an Apple TV 4K this weekend as a hopeful replacement for a 10 year old Mac mini that has reliably served as an HTPC.

I've never understood all the negativity for iTunes. We dropped cable, I suppose, about 15 years ago and started purchasing movies and shows from iTunes as soon as they were offered. We've built up a huge library of premium content, just the content, that we enjoy again and again and again. And, we purchased on our budget and our schedule. Cutting back when our budget didn't permit, and only buying quality content. iTunes has had minor UI/UX issues from time to time, but always enjoyable and functional, even for many thousands of movies, shows, and songs.

It's been great, and affordable, but this push towards subscribing for every network just seems ridiculously expensive.

So, we love the hardware, the remote, the voice control, and the software are just premium, but the push to subscriptions is repulsive. If the trend continues, the Apple TV and Apple TV app are going to become worthless, at least to us, because we do like to purchase content on our schedule, our budget. We like that level of control, and the ability to continue to enjoy our library of purchases. Meaning, it only has value to us as a media center and way to make purchases for our library, not as a never ending, expensive subscription portal.

Surely the trend cannot continue. Are people really willing, wanting to pay hundreds of dollars a month for a handful of shows from dozens of "channels".
 
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We have three on our house (2x ATV HD, 1x ATV 4K). They integrate perfectly with our other Apple products.
 
There is only one reason that I own an Apple TV. The Infuse app. It blows Plex away in my opinion and it means that I don't need a powerful server for my 4K content.
 
I own an apple TV, but I don't think it's been plugged in in over a year, possibly two. I wonder how many people like me there are, who technically own one, but never use it.
 
I own an apple TV, but I don't think it's been plugged in in over a year, possibly two. I wonder how many people like me there are, who technically own one, but never use it.

I doubt many people pay at least 150 for something and never use it. You can use a site like gazelle and get money for it
 
Drop the Apple TV to $69, with an A12, remove the Apple TV 4K or make it Apple TV Pro for $169 with a A12X chip.

At this point, Apple has no competitive edge, most TVs don't need an extra dongle and with the advent of airplay being on every TV, even less incentive for people to buy Apple TV.

The fact most TVs have smart functionality baked in isn't lost on Apple - this month, many of them gained access to an official Apple TV app for watching Apple TV+, iTunes, and App Store subscription video content.

I think Apple are hoping the access to their other services - Apple Music, iTunes in the Cloud, iCloud Photos, Apple Arcade, and so on might keep people on their devices; and their UI and app store experience are better than some (but not all) of the competition.
 
Let's deconstruct your claims for a minute.
  • Why drop the price to 69 bucks? Is 169 really that much?
  • Do you really need that A12 or 12X chip? In my experience it works just fine with the chip it has.
  • There is no need to compete when you own the ecosystem. Few people get this part.
  • Most TVs have a crappy UI, terrible OS maintenance, app support and near inexistent developer community. The Apple TV has all those missing elements.
  • Most TVs also don't act as a smart-home hub. The Apple TV does.
  • AirPlay is NOT on every TV. Not even on every NEW TV. Sweeping statement...

Let's deconstruct your post as well:
  • Chrome cast costs only $45, Apple TV doens't have any value proposition at 179 or 199 considering MOST people just watch youtube and netflix. In fact my own Apple TV, the usage is 40% youtube, 40% nextflix and 20% infuse. I don't see ANY of my friends buying AppleTV, and none of my parents or family members want AppleTV (they think its a waste of money / don't see the point)
  • You don't need an A12 chip, but its far more expensive to keep an old chip line alive, than throwing in a batch of your latest, especially with the efficiencies in both manufacturing. I'm sure an A12 is cheaper than an A10x over time. You also don't need a fan in an A12 so you save that cost. Your point is really just full of apple fanboyism.
  • This point is absolutely asinine. What does this even mean? 75% of Apple users don't even have an Apple TV for their TV's, I'm sure 100% of Apple users have a TV. Apple owns the ecosystem, but can't appeal to TV users.
  • No body cares about this point, AppleTV isn't appealing enough to install, and most TVs now run on Tizen, android and others. You are far mistaken to think that and I think you haven't really seen a smart TV in the last few years.
  • I have an AppleTV, Homepod, and don't see the point of this smart home hub, completely sidetracked point here. Smart hub is as valuable as the nonexistent homekit devices that are made for it. And the ones that are barely work properly.
  • Your last statement is cherry picking. You want AppleTV to grow, but every TV will have airplay on it anyway, so going forward, you'll be in a field that's far more competitive and far less in need of Apple TV's when TVs can do most of what an Apple TV really is useful for (airplaying content to the TV).
The TV experience for Apple is pretty garbage, and it costs a huge amount to just get in. I have to buy a $2000 tv and then spend $200 for a thing that allows me to watch netflix?

Their strategy is absolutely stupid, and people who think it's not... seirously.
 
What surprises me the most is the success of the HomePod in the category and the lack of effort on Apple's part to support new languages and launch it in more and more countries (leaving aside the fact that Siri need improvement, and a TON of it). If the device has so much success, why is Apple not pushing it much more? It means that it could have a market in other parts of the world if Siri spoke more languages (which it does on all other iOS devices and this is also a mystery to me). I personally own 2 AppleTVs outside the US and find them SUPER useful for Netflix, some broadcaster's own apps, pictures, Apple Music, and so on. I also own a HomePod and, luckily, I speak english. But I wish the HomePod would speak my native language as it would make it more useful and more "natural" for me to interact with. The AppleWatch, I own one of those as well, is a FENOMENAL device. I really like it and will, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, upgrade to a series 5. I absolutely like the device. But the HomePod needs more love. The AppleTV and specifically AppleTV+ needs an interface overhaul. Specifically a favorites list, alerts for upcoming shows, better "skip intro" and "next episode" for binge watching...
 
I'd still like to know what Apple "cracked". Jobs reportedly said that about TVs, that Apple had finally figured out the interface. But so far I'm not sure what that was. Siri? Creating their own Apple TV network?
I suspect it was the idea of, each network/service (HBO, etc.) having an app, each implementing a standard API for getting lists of available movies/shows/episodes, and for playing/pausing and random access within a video, so that Apple could implement a unified front end - search all content across providers with a unified interface, watch whatever you want with a familiar/unchanging set of controls (likely with Apple helping facilitate subscribing to services if you don't have the needed subscription already).

The current TV app is a mediocre implementation of this (has gone lately towards advertising things you don't watch rather than making access easy to things you do watch). Part of the problem was networks/services dragging their feet for a long time, not wanting to provide the necessary information/hooks (they want your exclusive attention in their app). Another part of the problem is Apple now having their own streaming service, so that they have a vested interest in getting you excited about that, rather than being totally "on your side". (WatchAid seems closer to the mark - it's a little bare bones, but it doesn't get in your face with suggestions, provides very direct access to what you want to watch, and keeps track of what you have/haven't watched, popping up a notification badge for new episodes available.)

Anyway, there was some point at which, in their presentations, they were making a deal out of "the future of television is apps." I think that was Steve's big idea.
 
I own two but don't use one of them and the other one is strictly for AirPlay (maybe 3 times a year). So yeah, I fall into that 25% crowd but I'm not planning on buying another one. too expensive, too buggy, too annoying to use. My smart TV is much better.
 
It’s not a quality speaker. How many input methods do you have? What ist the frequency range? What is the impedance? What about the sensitivity? Now compare that to a real quality speaker.
Impedance and sensitivity only matter if you're driving the speaker with an external amplifier - they're pretty meaningless statistics for a powered speaker. I would have said frequency response, clarity/accuracy, soundstage, and, you, know, how the thing actually sounds are the qualities by which one would judge a "real quality speaker".
 
Apple Arcade is not the primary function of an Apple TV, and it remains to be seen if the service is even popular. The A10X is also plenty powerful to run all Apple Arcade games in 1080p. A12X does not suddenly make 4K gaming viable.

You're right that it's not the primary function, but Apple Arcade shouldn't be viewed any differently in terms of Apple's commitment than Apple Music or Apple TV+. I also think you need to consider the fact that the A13X is now the more likely candidate for an updated ATV and that the capabilities for that SoC have yet to be revealed. There isn't really a logical reason for Apple to wait until 2020 to release an A12X ATV. There is if they're going to use the A13X.
 
I mean yea, I own one (4th gen, non 4K)... but it’s sitting in a box in a closet. The remote is horrible and I’ve had a better overall experience with Roku.

I’d be willing to buy a new one because I’m attracted to Apple Arcade, but I don’t want to buy a two year old device. Come on, Apple, release a new Apple TV.

I use a Harmony remote. Works fine.
 
Would have been a lot more Apple TV owners if AT&T hadn't cancelled all the $90 orders this morning. 🤬
 
I mean yea, I own one (4th gen, non 4K)... but it’s sitting in a box in a closet. The remote is horrible and I’ve had a better overall experience with Roku.

I’d be willing to buy a new one because I’m attracted to Apple Arcade, but I don’t want to buy a two year old device. Come on, Apple, release a new Apple TV.

It shouldn't matter how old it is. I'm not sure what Apple would change to make an upgrade worth while. It's already a really solid product as it is today, and it's plenty fast. I just don't see a need for a new one. I like having my ATV 4K, but I don't think there is anything they could do with a new model to make me want to upgrade.
 
Apple TV user since 2010. Absolutely flawless, incredible product.
Since 2012 i's been out main box - we got rid of discs & satellite.
Incredible Apple experience - I love it!
 
I doubt many people pay at least 150 for something and never use it. You can use a site like gazelle and get money for it
The Apple TV has been around for over 12 years. It's like asking how many people are going to own an old iPhone, the number is probably huge. It doesn't mean anything though.
 
Att is canceling out some orders from the Nov 1st sale because they oversold and are out of stock
 
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