27" iMac Video Input With Xbox 360?

[kasimodem]

As shown HERE the Atlona converter + scaler together can display a HDMI source on a 24" Mini Display Port Apple Cinema Display with good resolution and HDCP compatibility.

That's the proof it works, and because the new iMac 27" use the same display input system, it will also work on it.

The problem are :
- You need two components and multiple cables
- The price of the entire solution

So the solution is to wait for the next generation converters announced by Atlona and Belkin which will be in one block.

 

[zrankin]

Yeah yeah great find....except there's no mention to the 27" iMac in the description on Apple Store....but great find....I don't know why, but great find.....it's just the same old Gefen adapter meant for the ACD Led 24", but great find.....GREAT FIND

ps: your experience with Atlona is about the OLD_NON_USB_POWERED_NON_DECLARED_COMPATIBLE_WITH_27"_IMAC Atlona adapter, am I right? Or with the NEW_USB-POWERED_EXPLICTLY_COMPATIBLE_with_imac_27 Atlona adapter?

So, I repeat my question: U.S.A. people, who are blessed with having in your yard companies like Atlona and co. (---> cheap shipping, fast delivery), why on earth nobody of you have got the NEW EXPLICITLY COMPATIBLE (you can recognize it because it's usb powered) Atlona Adapter? C'mon....this stuff has been out for like a month....I cannot belevie we still don't have a clue about target display mode with adapters....

The "new" USB powered converter is EXACTLY the same as the old one except there is no need for the power adapter that the came with the old one which means less messy cables THATS IT... for it to work with the hdmi source you need the scaler as shown in the previous post... TOTAL COST OF $400USD ... But if the GEFEN works out... it is only $149 and is a tiny box behind the iMac... But Yea thanks for your input, big red letters and bold font

Cheers

 

[53x12]

I'm really hoping that when the new boxes come out they will be priced like ~$150.

 

[gianly1985]

The "new" USB powered converter is EXACTLY the same as the old one except there is no need for the power adapter that the came with the old one which means less messy cables THATS IT...

Prove it. It's not true. Ask Atlona, they say the new one works with the imac 27". That's a difference.

About the Gefen, go on building your wolrd of fantasies just because it is on the app store...(no mention to imac 27", no mention to hdmi 1080p sources, etc but go on fantasizing...)

I'm still waiting for someone who owns the new Atlona.

@kasimodem
Stop making assumptions based on what works on the ACD Led 24", if it was that easy this thread wouldn't exist. zrankin himself showed you that it's not an assumption you can make.

 

[SachaS]

gianly,

From the Apple Store: the DVI to MDP adaptor by Gefen

Supports video at 1920x1200@60 resolution
True pixel-to-pixel signal conversion without scaling

Technical specifications

Input connectors: One DVI-D digital video input; one 5V DC power input
Output connector: One Mini DisplayPort output
Input Resolution: DVI-D Single Link: 1920x1200 @ 60 Hz (that's 120 pixels more than 1080p.
Output Resolution: Mini DisplayPort: 1920x1200 @ 60 Hz

Trust me, this product will work. Just by reading the description you can tell it's the real deal. Obviously it's not specifically designed for the 27 inch iMac, but it would still work, albeit with a border.

It doesn't have to specifically mention the new iMacs for it to be compatible.

 

[kasimodem]

Well, it'll theorically work, but as it's not HDCP certified, you won't be able to see movies or play some console games.
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=8913
You will have to wait january for new products announced.

 

[gianly1985]

Trust me, this product will work. Just by reading the description you can tell it's the real deal

How different is that mind-blowing ("great find!! Hurrayyyyy! Greaaat find!! Hurray!!") description from the description of the OLD Atlona adpater (owned by zrankin and NOT WORKING with the iMac 27" BUT working with the ACD 24" Led).

What's so magic in that description? Why no mention to the iMac 27"? Who can tell that this GEFEN isn't a "Atlona OLD adapter, TAKE 2" (i.e., WORKING with ACD 24", NOT WORKING with iMac 27").

That drives me crazy..."great find"..."great find" my ars...just for a description no where different from the description of the OLD NOT WORKING atlona adpater...

I reapeat, nobody can assure the Gefen will work.

Whereas, I'm far more interested in the NEW EXPLICITLY COMPATIBLE (recognizable by a slitghtly different design and being USB powered) Atlona adapter.....and I can't help but wonder how ON EARTH we still not have consensus/experiences/etc. about that adapter, this is HUGE stuff, nearly DECISION-of-buying-an-iMac-CHANGING stuff for someone....but looks like american people are waiting experiences from Europe or Australia, where we pay 50$ for shipping from Atlona and have to wait several weeks....can't believe in the whole forum still nobody in the USA got it....

http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-DVI-to-Mini-DisplayPort-Converter-p-17859.html

But if mr zrankin tell us that "the only difference is that it's USB-powered, THAT'S IT!", we can be sure of it The Atlona site must be wrong...

 

[Ruscon]

...

Your caps, colors and all size differences are truly annoying. So please quit posting like you were 12 years old, cause nobody will take your posts seriously unless you do.

Simple answere to your long reply which is very obviousy, nobody want's to pay 400$ for a converter to play a 300$ console on an ACD. Instead of trying to convince someone to buy it which is clearly your purpose of your post, go buy it yourself, if you're so eager to find out, otherwise just wait like the rest of us and shut up.

 

[Grawbad]

Wow, I knew there were others out there interested in this.

So I talked to a sales rep who brought an Apple Engineer into the mix.

Short and sweet he said:

The "in" capability of the Mini DisplayPort is only for devices that have the capability like macbooks and whatnot.

He also added if I wanted to get my 360 or PS3 to display I would need to use what you guys are talking about here. He then said, however, your going to get a terrible resolution. He said it would look like you took a 640x480 video and stretched it across the full screen.
(These are guys that WANT to sell me the higher priced product.)

He then recommend if I wanted to use a mac and a console on one screen I would need to get a TV or Monitor and hook up a mac mini and the consoles to it.
So he is telling me not to spend 1699 and to spend 599 or 799 at the apple store so I am guessing he isn't telling me this because he wants me to believe it wont work. lol
Bummer.

I wish they would put a couple of HDMI ports on these things.
Just think, blue ray movies off your PS3 and games from all your systems.
What would it cost to and 2 HDMI inputs on it? Not much and I would pay the extra.


I have a sneaky suspicion that they don't want you using blue ray and stuff on these so they can sell apple tv and movies through itunes. lol


EDIT: Just to note, I just now found this forum and thread. I haven't read the whole thread, just a few posts on the first page.

Previously I had searched and couldnt find any info. I made three calls to apple before I got to talk with an engineer and thats when the good info came. On the first call I was told yep, just buy a mini displayport to dvi then a dvi to hdmi and I could do it.
Thats when I noticed that the 27 inch models are the only ones that can accept input and so I called back in to double check that. And she said yep, just the 27 inch models and she confirmed that I could do what I was after.

So a little while later I called back to ask if the adapters would cause any lag between button presses and what I see on screen. LUCKILY this got me to an Engineer as she had no idea.
I explained to him what I have just said in this edit and he stopped me as soon as he heard ps3 and xbox 360 and told me it was not possible unless I wanted it to look ugly and then explained the rest to me as I have already mentioned up top. lol

EDIT 2: Well, I see you guys are all just trying to figure out if it works, now that I have read your posts. lol
Well according to what the apple engineer told me, YES it does work, BUT its going to be FUGLY as all hell, so there would be no point in doing it.

 

[gianly1985]

Your caps, colors and all size differences are truly annoying. So please quit posting like you were 12 years old, cause nobody will take your posts seriously unless you do.

I don't care what annoys you, use the ignore list.

Simple answere to your long reply which is very obviousy, nobody want's to pay 400$

Actually it's 150$ to see if the Atlona works at least with a DVI computer input, the scaler+console proof is a further step, but at least the 150$ adapter could be experimented...

for a converter to play a 300$ console on an ACD

Wake up, we're talking about the iMac..
And wake up, after people spend 2000$ on a iMac (with a gorgeous 1300$-worth IPS LED display) they may like to use it as much as possible....including a console...

. Instead of trying to convince someone to buy it which is clearly your purpose of your post,

Lol...I don't even own an iMac 27" at the moment...and I use a 50" plasma for consoles....I'm just curious and I find it crazy that we still are clueless about the real possibilities of target display mode....

.
go buy it yourself, if you're so eager to find out, otherwise just wait like the rest of us and shut up.

It's not just a matter of waiting, in the meantime it's a matter of correcting false and misleading assumptions like:

- "hey people I tried the OLD Atlona, it doesn't work"----> "The" atlona is not good ----> FALSE! There's the new one to try....

- "hurray!! The Gefen! Great find!!!" -----> It's just the old gefen made for the ACD Led 24", could not work just like the old Atlona

My point is: the situation is ALREADY quite confused (with people still talking about the passive OUTPUT DONGLES and pointing out that "they don't work, I read it in an article", like it's news or like it has ever been a possibility, it was a possibility only for dumb people), let's try not to add confusion and let's sum up the (oddly) few things we know...

 

[Meriana]

Did they say anthing about regular dispalyport sources from graphic cards?

 

[gianly1985]

Did they say anthing about regular dispalyport sources from graphic cards?

What we know so far:

- Ati 4890 ---> works fine

- Ati 5870 ---> doesn't work

- Ati 5970 ---> works fine

 

[SachaS]

The "in" capability of the Mini DisplayPort is only for devices that have the capability like macbooks and whatnot.

He also added if I wanted to get my 360 or PS3 to display I would need to use what you guys are talking about here. He then said, however, your going to get a terrible resolution. He said it would look like you took a 640x480 video and stretched it across the full screen.
(These are guys that WANT to sell me the higher priced product.)

Can anybody shed light on the validity of this statement? Doesn't the 'scaler' product mentioned earlier in this thread render this 'stretching' problem obsolete?

Besides it wouldn't be as bad as this engineer is claiming, surely? 640x480 is quite a substantial exaggeration I'm thinking.

And wasn't it claimed that instead of the image being stretched across the whole screen it would simply have black borders along the sides? For it to be stretched across the whole screen wouldn't the iMac need a built in image scaler, which has been stated isn't very likely...

Or am I not understanding something here?

Gainly my colourful Italiano friend,

All these different products are confusing me. How much money do I need to get this shizzle working? Can you provide me links for the Atlona product along with all the other tid-bits I'd also need to purchase to get a 360 gaming console working on my 27 inch iMac?

Sacha

 

[Grawbad]

Can anybody shed light on the validity of this statement? Doesn't the 'scaler' product mentioned earlier in this thread render this 'stretching' problem obsolete?

Besides it wouldn't be as bad as this engineer is claiming, surely? 640x480 is quite a substantial exaggeration I'm thinking.

And wasn't it claimed that instead of the image being stretched across the whole screen it would simply have black borders along the sides? For it to be stretched across the whole screen wouldn't the iMac need a built in image scaler, which has been stated isn't very likely...

Or am I not understanding something here?

Gainly my colourful Italiano friend,

All these different products are confusing me. How much money do I need to get this shizzle working? Can you provide me links for the Atlona product along with all the other tid-bits I'd also need to purchase to get a 360 gaming console working on my 27 inch iMac?

Sacha

Hey friend, I have no reason to lie. I was searching for a solution myself. I am in the same boat as you. I recommend you call apple and when you get the automated guy ask for sales. When you talk to a sales lady ask her if she can bring an engineer in on the call so you could ask a few questions. Make sure you get an engineer as I was told twice buy the stupid sales people that two adapters (Mini Displayport to dvi and dvi to HDMI) would work. DUH

He didn't say it wouldn't have black borders, he said it would be ugly. Perhaps I misspoke when I said the whole screen, perhaps he said it would look like 640x480 stretched across the screen. I don't have a photographic memory you know.

 

[SachaS]

Heya Grawbad,

My apologies, it appears we have got off on the wrong foot, as they say.

Of course I wasn't doubting the validity of your conversation with the engineer - or for that matter your integrity - clearly you are simply relaying your findings following a valuable and informative investigative conversation. What I was implying is that perhaps this engineer doesn't know what he's talking about. I very much doubt he would have personally tried to connect a 360 to the iMac so his assumptions cannot be taken for granted in such an important matter as to whether this is at all worth the effort and expense.

About the black borders... If it does have black borders there is no reason why it should look ugly. For that reason I assumed he meant the outputting image from the 360 would be stretched along the whole screen (which would look ugly).

Xbox 360 16:9 resolution: 1920x1080
iMac 27inch 16:9 resolution: 2560x1,440

As you can see the XBox's outputting resolution of 1920x1080 (which, incidentally, is also the resolution of 21.5inch Imac) is a big difference to 640x480 (which is the outputting resolution of a PlayStation 1 console from 1998).

1920x1080 stretched to 2560x1440 wouldn't look anywhere near as bad as 640x480 stretched to 2560x1440.

And if the image doesn't get stretched using up 1920x1080 pixels on the iMac's 27 inch screen whilst blacking out the remainder of the pixels shouldn't look ugly at all - apart from the black borders of course.

Hope you see what I'm trying to get at here...

 

[Grawbad]

Heya Grawbad,

My apologies, it appears we have got off on the wrong foot, as they say.

Of course I wasn't doubting the validity of your conversation with the engineer - or for that matter your integrity - clearly you are simply relaying your findings following a valuable and informative investigative conversation. What I was implying is that perhaps this engineer doesn't know what he's talking about. I very much doubt he would have personally tried to connect a 360 to the iMac so his assumptions cannot be taken for granted in such an important matter as to whether this is at all worth the effort and expense.

About the black borders... If it does have black borders there is no reason why it should look ugly. For that reason I assumed he meant the outputting image from the 360 would be stretched along the whole screen (which would look ugly).

Xbox 360 16:9 resolution: 1920x1080
iMac 27inch 16:9 resolution: 2560x1,440

As you can see the XBox's outputting resolution of 1920x1080 (which, incidentally, is also the resolution of 21.5inch Imac) is a big difference to 640x480 (which is the outputting resolution of a PlayStation 1 console from 1998).

1920x1080 stretched to 2560x1440 wouldn't look anywhere near as bad as 640x480 stretched to 2560x1440.

And if the image doesn't get stretched using up 1920x1080 pixels on the iMac's 27 inch screen whilst blacking out the remainder of the pixels shouldn't look ugly at all - apart from the black borders of course.

Hope you see what I'm trying to get at here...

Incidentally I knew that the 27 inch had the higher resolution but I never got as far as thinking about 1080p actually being in a window on the screen. lol

In any event, I am trying to recall the conversation here and I remember he said that when hooking it up in this way that it has to scale it or something like that causing the image to be grainy, something akin to stretching 640x480 across the screen.

What I am going to do now is call again as if it would work I want to know for certain as its the only thing baring my purchase of an iMac. This time I am going to write down what the guy says.

First I am going to eat. lol

I will report my findings here as soon as I am done with the call.

 

[SachaS]

Grawbad,

I'd wait for a few more responses first, I'm hardly the most informed contributor to this thread and I could well be speaking out my arse. Perhaps someone else will come up with a clever question to ask this engineer. Leave it for tomorrow I say, I doubt the engineer will be available on a Sunday anyway.

Sacha

 

[unamused]

woah this thread has really made a turn for the worse.

Just to clarify a few things... For myself personally, and im sure others will agree, I couldnt care less if it displayed at the native resolution, sure that would be sweet but since the PS3 only outputs 1080, thats all i want. If it were as easy as hooking it up with a 40 dollar cable/hdmi-mdp then id be all for it. Sadly thats NOT the case. We cant even hook it up to view it with large black borders all the way around thanks to apple

What we need is an active converter AND scaler. Yes the new DP200 ($150) from atlona WILL work but thats only if you use in conjuction with the hd560 ($240).

I think the main reason people have not been jumping for this product is the cost. It will cost close to 400 dollars for this setup and atlona themselves have stated that they are coming up with an all in one unit that will cost approximately HALF of what the two components cost right now.

I understand for those of you in the UK shipping costs a lot of money, but when you are talking about 400 dollars for anyone in the states, thats already a HUGE amount of money, heck 25% of the cost of an i& imac, you cant expect people just to mosey over to atlonas website and buy the products.

When you realize that the cost of a new ps3 is less then what it costs to hook it up to the iMac it almost sounds stupid to get the converter and scaler.

 

[gianly1985]

I don't understand why a scaler is needed.

What happens if I hook a Windows PC with ATI 4890 to the iMac 27" and send a 1920x1080 resolution to the screen, does it EXPLODE? Does it remain black? Or does it simply shows a stretched (and slightly blurred, as always when you don't use the native resolution of an LCD)*1920x1080 windows desktop? So, if this DOES work, why shouldn't it work with another "1920x1080" source? (a console, namely)

Maybe the scaler was needed (as showed in the internationally famous macrumors thread with the guy who play Ratchet & Clank on the ACD) for the ACD 24" wich was 16:10 and didn't support any 16:9 resolution natively, but how do we know that the scaler is also needed for the iMac 27"? That sentence in the Atlona description may simply be related to the ACD...

That's what I was talking about. We don't have a clue. We're "paralyzed". It's odd...




*this is what the Apple Engineer was trying to point out to Grawbad, but the result of using a non-native stretched resolution doesn't have to be that bad and terrible, it can simply be slightly blurred, that would be acceptable for 3D games

 

[gianly1985]

Gainly my colourful Italiano friend,

All these different products are confusing me. How much money do I need to get this shizzle working? Can you provide me links for the Atlona product along with all the other tid-bits I'd also need to purchase to get a 360 gaming console working on my 27 inch iMac?

We're trying to find out.

Worst case scenario, you will need to buy these products:

1) Atlona AT-DP200 (New Version, not the bulky old version)

2) Atlona AT-HD560 (if a scaler is needed like in the famous "PS3 on Apple Cinema Display 24" thread)

3) an "DVI Female to HDMI Female" adapter to be combined with the Atlona AT-DP200

4) 2 hdmi male-male cables (1 that runs from the x360 to the scaler, 1 that runs from the scaler to the AT-DP200+item3)

5) 1 Mini-DP male-male cable (that, finally, runs from the AT-DP200 to the iMac 27")

This is the worst case scenario.

The best case scenario is that Belkin or Atlona or Gefen release a single cheap adapter for this specific purpose (hooking a console or HDMI source to the 27" iMac) that does it all.

 

[gianly1985]

What we need is an active converter AND scaler. Yes the new DP200 ($150) from atlona WILL work but thats only if you use in conjuction with the hd560 ($240).

3 reasons why I think this whole "a scaler is needed"-thing may be BS for the iMac 27" (while it's true for the 16:10 ACD Led 24"):

1) Why isn't a scaler needed when people hook a Windows PC with ATI 4890 or ATI 5970 (= I'm mentioning display port GPUs proven to work with the iMac 27") and (eg. for playing a HEAVY 3D game that would stutter at 2560x1440) send a resolution of 1920x1080 to the display? What happens in that situation? Why isn't a scaler needed then? How is this different from the PS3/x360 scenario?

2) Why isn't a scaler needed when people hook an OLD MAC with DVI output to the iMac 27" through the Atlona AT-DP200? (and this HAS to be possible, it's the whole reason of existence of the AT-DP200) Obviously in this situation the resolution "sent" to the display will be 1920x1080 too, because of the limit of the single link DVI interface (max 1920x1200) and of the Atlona AT-DP200 itself (as stated in the Atlona page, it is limited to accepting single link DVI 1920x1200 signals). Why isn't a scaler needed then? How is this different from the PS3/x360 scenario?

3) The scaler suggested by Atlona itself (Atlona AT-HD560) is limited to scale up or down to a 1920x1080 anyway. It won't scale the signal to 2560x1440. (even if it did, you'd still have the DVI bottleneck on the AT-DP200, so it would simply not work). That sentence is probably about the ACD 24" only. I don't see how that scaler would be of any help with the 2560x1440 iMac 27".

 

[gianly1985]

I've done an image to sum up the "Atlona theory":

 

[ziggyonice]

I've done an image to sum up the "Atlona theory":

http://img.skitch.com/20091207-8jph27jsrpk47t4q4g34jw79a7.jpg[t/IMG][/QUOTE]

Nice work. This is very depressing to look at. :(

 

[gianly1985]

Nice work. This is very depressing to look at.

Not necessarily.
It could also mean that a scaler is not needed AT ALL for the iMac 27".

I think that the scaler was needed for the ACD 24" because it was 16:10 and the 1080p resolution was not supported natively, so you had to upscale it to 1920x1200.

But the iMac 27" is 16:9 and 1920x1080 should be a supported resolution...

 

[gianly1985]