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commander.data

macrumors 65816
Nov 10, 2006
1,056
183
If you are correct then you just answered the question I was just about to post regarding if the iphone 3g and 2nd gen touch shared the same processor with one just being overclocked by nearly a 1/3 percent increase in power or if the touch indeed does have an advanced, revised chip inside.
http://toucharcade.com/2008/07/07/under-the-hood-the-iphones-gaming-mettle/

The Samsung chipset at the heart of the iPhone utilizes a 32-bit RISC ARM processing core, the ARM1176JZ(F)-S v1.0. The ARM device is capable of running at 620MHz, but Apple has downclocked it to 412MHz, presumably in the interest of extending battery life. (Apple has, at least once in the past, adjusted the clockspeed of both the processor and the system bus via firmware update.) Unlike the original iPhone, the 3G iPhone and the original iPod touch, the second-generation iPod touch features an ARM1176 v4.0 core running at 532MHz.
According to this article the 2nd Gen Touch uses a revision 4.0 while the others uses a revision 1.0. I don't remember any of the tear-downs mentioning the chip being smaller so a process shrink is unlikely. It's just due to a maturing product.
 

Sehnsucht

macrumors 65816
Sep 21, 2008
1,165
0
I was ridiculed some time ago for a iPod touch mock up with a 32 terabyte SSD and what....I think a modest pair of 3.2 GHz processors. You guys WANT me as Apple's CEO, REALLY. :D

"As your CEO, I'll work to put TI FireWire back into the MacBook." :D
 

christian_k

macrumors 6502
May 31, 2005
333
12
Germany
Try, say, "God Of War" on the PSP if you're in doubt - in-game realtime graphics. Where's the iPhone/Touch game to rival this?

When the App store started there were discussions here and elsewhere about it. When it came to games everyone talked about $2,99 $3,99 or something.
How much does it cost to develop a game like GOW? How much does it cost when you buy it? $3,99 hhmmm?

While iPod touch outperforms Nintendo DS in every way (remember, it has 4 MB RAM and 66 MHz!) and much better games should be possible on the iPod touch easily, the games are expected to be sold for 1/10 of the price of a DS game.
It is possible to make great games for iPod touch, but in such a "cheap, cheap, cheap" situation we are not able to start a year+ project on that platform, and I think many others are not able or not willing to take that risk, too.

Christian
 

fat phil

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2008
438
0
When the App store started there were discussions here and elsewhere about it. When it came to games everyone talked about $2,99 $3,99 or something.
How much does it cost to develop a game like GOW? How much does it cost when you buy it? $3,99 hhmmm?

While iPod touch outperforms Nintendo DS in every way (remember, it has 4 MB RAM and 66 MHz!) and much better games should be possible on the iPod touch easily, the games are expected to be sold for 1/10 of the price of a DS game.
It is possible to make great games for iPod touch, but in such a "cheap, cheap, cheap" situation we are not able to start a year+ project on that platform, and I think many others are not able or not willing to take that risk, too.

Christian

It's not just cost. There's nothing stopping anyone with money in the bank from making a $30 iPhone game, and it'll probably happen sooner than you think.

There are bigger reasons GOW type games aren't falling onto iPhone. Don't forget the small issue of controls. Apple's self-indulgence, translated into "no buttons for you" doesn't make certain types of games easy to adapt to the iPhone. Hence the boom in casual games, which are hardly demanding on control schemes. Not necessarily a bad thing, if you have an open mind and can do without epic action titles.

And specs never translate to real-world performance. Anyone who used to pour over the triangle count of up-coming console specs should know this from experience.

System architecture alone plays a big part in what you can and can't have. Your PSP and DS aren't running in a sandbox with a whole OS sitting in the background doing stuff, and the PSP in particular has had years of firmware upgrades to get where it is now.
 

commander.data

macrumors 65816
Nov 10, 2006
1,056
183
It's not just cost. There's nothing stopping anyone with money in the bank from making a $30 iPhone game, and it'll probably happen sooner than you think.

There are bigger reasons GOW type games aren't falling onto iPhone. Don't forget the small issue of controls. Apple's self-indulgence, translated into "no buttons for you" doesn't make certain types of games easy to adapt to the iPhone. Hence the boom in casual games, which are hardly demanding on control schemes. Not necessarily a bad thing, if you have an open mind and can do without epic action titles.

And specs never translate to real-world performance. Anyone who used to pour over the triangle count of up-coming console specs should know this from experience.

System architecture alone plays a big part in what you can and can't have. Your PSP and DS aren't running in a sandbox with a whole OS sitting in the background doing stuff, and the PSP in particular has had years of firmware upgrades to get where it is now.
I have to agree that controls are a limitation. But at the same time, I think a lot of people would have been up at arms if Apple had stuck a bunch of buttons on the Touch, where many people are still just looking to play music and watch videos. Was Belkin rumoured to be working on a button sleeve? Apple doesn't have to make one themselves, but they could certainly define the standard and the APIs so that all third-party button sleeves will be application compatible.

And in terms of high-end games, it's probably just a matter of development time. Apple wasn't actively courting launch titles as gaming devices usually have so nobody really got a head start. And I'm sure uncertainty over how successful the Touch/iPhone would be and the openness of app development all promoted caution rather than rushing into things.
 

fat phil

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2008
438
0
I have to agree that controls are a limitation. But at the same time, I think a lot of people would have been up at arms if Apple had stuck a bunch of buttons on the Touch, where many people are still just looking to play music and watch videos. Was Belkin rumoured to be working on a button sleeve? Apple doesn't have to make one themselves, but they could certainly define the standard and the APIs so that all third-party button sleeves will be application compatible.

Indeed - it is what it is. Not sure how well any sleeves will take off - they'd have to be pretty successful to be adopted by the majority, or even just one or two bigger developers. I don't think I'd consider spending time (and money) developing for something if it doesn't warrant the capital returns.

And in terms of high-end games, it's probably just a matter of development time. Apple wasn't actively courting launch titles as gaming devices usually have so nobody really got a head start. And I'm sure uncertainty over how successful the Touch/iPhone would be and the openness of app development all promoted caution rather than rushing into things.

The bandwagon bumrush isn't over yet - there's a lot of uncertainty with publishers we talk to regarding target pricing and numbers. They're nervous because they're suddenly not needed (as much) anymore - it's much easier for a dev to make one or two small games on the back of the funding they're getting for their AAA console titles. It won't be long before we see some bigger games coming out of the woodwork - stuff paid for by the half dozen "bread and butter" 59p titles. There are some great opportunities with the App Store model; I really hope it sticks for the long term because the future will be a much brighter place for gamers and developers alike.

Well, those devs who actually manage to sell their bread baskets anyway.
 

christian_k

macrumors 6502
May 31, 2005
333
12
Germany
It's not just cost. There's nothing stopping anyone with money in the bank from making a $30 iPhone game, and it'll probably happen sooner than you think.

We have discussed this in the company. At the moment everyone expects iPhone games to be cheap and even a lot of the "better" titles have been reduced in price quickly. Of course, prices up to $999 are possible in the store, but we consider the risk of making a "bigger" project as too high.

There are bigger reasons GOW type games aren't falling onto iPhone. Don't forget the small issue of controls. Apple's self-indulgence, translated into "no buttons for you" doesn't make certain types of games easy to adapt to the iPhone. Hence the boom in casual games, which are hardly demanding on control schemes. Not necessarily a bad thing, if you have an open mind and can do without epic action titles.

I did not mean a game of the same genere as GOW, but games at the same level of quality. I do not think iPhone can offer the same quality as PSP, but it can offer quality superior to DS. This is not limited to casual games, I think strategy games or RPGs could be played well with a touchscreen only.

But still, controls are a limiting factor. But specialized game systems have limitations, too. A PS3 does not usually have a keyboard, which is a problem for some games.

And specs never translate to real-world performance. Anyone who used to pour over the triangle count of up-coming console specs should know this from experience.
System architecture alone plays a big part in what you can and can't have. Your PSP and DS aren't running in a sandbox with a whole OS sitting in the background doing stuff, and the PSP in particular has had years of firmware upgrades to get where it is now.

I am a licensed developer for Wii, so I do know something about that. Of course it has an operating system and APIs that are very lightweight and optimized for performance and you have much more control over the system, nothing else is running etc. This is an obvious advantage when compared to a similar spec PC. But does how does it compare against a current gaming PC (that has an OS of even higher complexity than iPod touch)? Decide for yourself.

Christian
 
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