Nobody asked for the MBP to be thin over more RAM. And Dell manage to offer upgradeable RAM to 32GB and upgradeable SSD in the XPS, which is comparable in slimness as a macbook
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32GB RAM MacBook Pro release - when?
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Nobody asked for the MBP to be thin over more RAM. And Dell manage to offer upgradeable RAM to 32GB and upgradeable SSD in the XPS, which is comparable in slimness as a macbook
I would like a thicker mac laptop that allows me to post purchase upgrade the RAM/hard drive and fingers crossed other things [GPU!!], but beggars cannot/should not be choosers!!!
The air should be the twitter/facebook/instagram iPad with attached keyboard and as it says on the tin, the pro professional...
For example the tools builders use are bigger more powerful than the junk dad uses in his workshop to shave his fingers off with...for a reason, professional tools are built to last, and they often cost more, professionals don't mind paying this "tax"!!
If you are working in a creative or technical field, this is often away from a formal desk, on site, where you need powerful computing in a portable format, and 16GB is simply not suitable...The point I am trying to make, make it apple, people with buy it.. 64gb, 128gb people with the desire will buy it...It might actually prevent hackintoshing!!!
The air should be the twitter/facebook/instagram iPad with attached keyboard and as it says on the tin, the pro professional...
For example the tools builders use are bigger more powerful than the junk dad uses in his workshop to shave his fingers off with...for a reason, professional tools are built to last, and they often cost more, professionals don't mind paying this "tax"!!
If you are working in a creative or technical field, this is often away from a formal desk, on site, where you need powerful computing in a portable format, and 16GB is simply not suitable...The point I am trying to make, make it apple, people with buy it.. 64gb, 128gb people with the desire will buy it...It might actually prevent hackintoshing!!!
But has a shocking battery life for it.
[doublepost=1507043395][/doublepost]Apple have made the compromises that they consider make the best portable computers, its that simple, they are also ones I agree with.
If those compromises (all laptop makers make them, DDR4 RAM or battery life, GPU power or slimness and lightness and quietness etc etc) are not what you want in a portable computer then go and buy one that makes the compromises you are happy with.
Just stop banging on about it on here, it seems that all 300 of the people in the world that absolutely can't live without a portable mac with 32gb of RAM come on here everyday just to spout the same old rubbish not accept any logical arguments and show no understanding of business and legal obligations to shareholders. We get it you are angry you are dim and you need to vent please find somewhere else because the majority of us are fed up with reading it.
No Apple have not made compromises..That is simply not true...that is believing snake oil cures cancer..Apple made business decisions, and not technical ones, they had post purchase before and now banned it...was that for technical or business reasons..before they could do it..now they cannot??? Did apple become stupid all of a sardine???
No it was to force BTO, or post purchase repurchase...which is business not technical...there is no no reason the MacBook pro cannot be 5-10mm thicker have iMac grade parts or better still a whole new line of parts from intel/amd...
Apple again made a business decision, I would say in consult with intel about the development of chipsets, and this is what we have today, banned post purchase upgrading, which is a business decision and not technical...
How can you not see it as a pure business decision? I am making a point, you disagree, fine, and I accept your point, invalid as it is, it was not for technical reasons...Accept that apple make decisions for the people that matter, and that is not tim or jony, or any apple employee...apple, that is tim cook makes decisions in the sole interest of 1 group-the shareholders only...Tim is not employed to make decisions to make better laptops..the shareholders would fire him if he went rogue....
No it was to force BTO, or post purchase repurchase...which is business not technical...there is no no reason the MacBook pro cannot be 5-10mm thicker have iMac grade parts or better still a whole new line of parts from intel/amd...
Apple again made a business decision, I would say in consult with intel about the development of chipsets, and this is what we have today, banned post purchase upgrading, which is a business decision and not technical...
How can you not see it as a pure business decision? I am making a point, you disagree, fine, and I accept your point, invalid as it is, it was not for technical reasons...Accept that apple make decisions for the people that matter, and that is not tim or jony, or any apple employee...apple, that is tim cook makes decisions in the sole interest of 1 group-the shareholders only...Tim is not employed to make decisions to make better laptops..the shareholders would fire him if he went rogue....
Margin and sold units is all Apple cares about.
Also, compared to iPhone sales, a 32GB MacBook option would probably not increase the overall unit count at all.
It's not like MacBook sales would double if a 32GB model exists.
The same is true for the mid-range GPU choices and thermal profile.
No one cares, you are supposed to buy ... and buy again.
No..that is a byproduct of the business..Tim is employed to make decisions in the interest of the owners of Apple, that are the shareholders..banning post purchase upgrading was allowing crucial/owc.newegg to profit at the expense of apple...
Apple banned post purchase upgrading to force through BTO and repurchase every year...basically apple get you hooked..you like the drug...but like any hard drug you need more, so you buy 16GB...and they upgrade features like the stupid touch bar...
It makes zero business sense to allow post purchase..If I was tim I would make the same decision, it is the only decision he could make...allow post purchase and his employ is terminated....It is a fraud basically and how it is not a class action is beyond me, if I was stateside I would seek a way to file class action against Apple...
So when apple says compromise, it was compromise at shareholder request and nothing technical...impossible for it to be technical....
Apple banned post purchase upgrading to force through BTO and repurchase every year...basically apple get you hooked..you like the drug...but like any hard drug you need more, so you buy 16GB...and they upgrade features like the stupid touch bar...
It makes zero business sense to allow post purchase..If I was tim I would make the same decision, it is the only decision he could make...allow post purchase and his employ is terminated....It is a fraud basically and how it is not a class action is beyond me, if I was stateside I would seek a way to file class action against Apple...
So when apple says compromise, it was compromise at shareholder request and nothing technical...impossible for it to be technical....
Your posts are usually well written, but this particular one is silly. There is literally no evidence that there is no demand for more RAM. None. In fact, when more RAM has been made available in the past (4 to 8, and 8 to 16) on more expensive machines, they have historically ALWAYS sold pretty well, even out of the gate when the premiums have been highest.
Second, you presume the issue is a business one. It's a technical one. There is zero doubt, based on Apple's previous own statements, that when 32GB is feasible without a significant compromise, they'll do it. So that too negates the business argument.
Third, telling people to stop talking about it is silly. That's the very purpose of public forums. If you are "fed up with reading it," then the answer is very, very simple: stop reading this thread! Geez.
How is it a technical issue?
The HP ZBook supports 64GB and runs the same chipset and processor as the 15" MBP.
What's a Zbook running 64GB compromise on compared to running 16GB?
Is it a board size issue? Are the 8GB and 16GB motherboards the same, just the 16GB version uses larger capacity memory chips? The ZBook has 4 slots, 64GB is 4x16... 32GB is 4x8. Maybe that's it.
The HP ZBook supports 64GB and runs the same chipset and processor as the 15" MBP.
What's a Zbook running 64GB compromise on compared to running 16GB?
Is it a board size issue? Are the 8GB and 16GB motherboards the same, just the 16GB version uses larger capacity memory chips? The ZBook has 4 slots, 64GB is 4x16... 32GB is 4x8. Maybe that's it.
Completely false. In a public company, it is your job as CEO to make the shareholders happy, not customers. Why do you think most other companies have horrible support? Apple is the only company I have dealt with that still values support and keeping customers happy. But it is Tim's job as CEO to devote resources that make Apple the most money. Therefore, iPhones.
About upgrading computers. People on this site seriously mistake professionals with computer enthusiasts. Sometimes they are the same, but most of the time they are not. A video editor spending $5K on the 2013 Mac Pro has probably made up that purchase 10 times by now. So when it fails, or they need more hardware, they just buy a new one.
Most of the time, professionals do not care about tinkering around inside the computers. I get my computer to get my job done. I make up the purchase of my computers very quickly. If I find I spec'ed it wrong a couple years from now, I just buy a new one because I easily make up the cost. I do not spend my time upgrading my current system with various components when a simple Buy Now button is all I need to click and I have a better system on the way. So I can get back to work and start paying off the new system immediately.
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Again, you are confusing desktop DDR4 RAM to LPDDR RAM. It IS a technical issue. The current Intel processors only support 16GB of LPDDR RAM.
They will NOT release an entire new case, logic board, design, size, weight, and more JUST for 32GB or more with desktop DDR4 RAM. Therefore, those of us with 8GB or 16GB will suffer battery life wise.
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I agree to a point. Why should we talk about it stating it is Apple's issue when it is Intel that needs to get going and support 32GB of LPDDR? What would talking about it all day every day accomplish? It should be taken to the Intel forums. I certainly do not want my 16GB configuration hurt because they moved to desktop DDR memory.
Tim did not make this decision. That was done under the Steve Jobs era.
Neither Tim Cook or Steve Jobs are holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy Apple products.
LPDDR3 is currently the supported type. Cannon Lake will have LPDDR4 support.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/17...-pro-imac-likely-delayed-could-slip-into-2018
And why does a Pro computer not use standard SO-DIMM's like every other workstation class laptop out there? Is it a battery life thing? So just make hot swappable batteries like every other workstation out there. Who are they building these laptops for?
It's like trying to make a really fast car but then stating it has to do at least 90MPG. The people looking to buy a really fast car don't tend to care about fuel economy
I'll quietly ignore that the top spec MBP costs an extra grand over a comparable ZBook
I'm only using the Zbook as an example and not the Lenovo/Dells as I know the ZBooks will run High Sierra without issue. The Lenovos seem to be even cheaper.
It's like trying to make a really fast car but then stating it has to do at least 90MPG. The people looking to buy a really fast car don't tend to care about fuel economy
I'll quietly ignore that the top spec MBP costs an extra grand over a comparable ZBook
I'm only using the Zbook as an example and not the Lenovo/Dells as I know the ZBooks will run High Sierra without issue. The Lenovos seem to be even cheaper.
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And why does a Pro computer not use standard SO-DIMM's like every other workstation class laptop out there? Is it a battery life thing? So just make hot swappable batteries like every other workstation out there. Who are they building these laptops for?
It's like trying to make a really fast car but then stating it has to do at least 90MPG. The people looking to buy a really fast car don't tend to care about fuel economy
I'll quietly ignore that the top spec MBP costs an extra grand over a comparable ZBook
I'm only using the Zbook as an example and not the Lenovo/Dells as I know the ZBooks will run High Sierra without issue. The Lenovos seem to be even cheaper.
LPDDR3 is a standard. It is low-powered. Meaning that is how I am able to get 12 hours on my 2016 15" i7 Macbook Pro.
And why does a Pro computer not use standard SO-DIMM's like every other workstation class laptop out there? Is it a battery life thing? So just make hot swappable batteries like every other workstation out there. Who are they building these laptops for?
It's like trying to make a really fast car but then stating it has to do at least 90MPG. The people looking to buy a really fast car don't tend to care about fuel economy
I'll quietly ignore that the top spec MBP costs an extra grand over a comparable ZBook
I'm only using the Zbook as an example and not the Lenovo/Dells as I know the ZBooks will run High Sierra without issue. The Lenovos seem to be even cheaper.
Size and automating assembly are factors. Surface mounting packages and soldering are processes that are well optimized in assembly plants and leads to fewer rejects than socketed components. Same with glued on batteries
Another factor is planned obsolescence. Apple has an issue in that it is in a market that largely consist of it completing with itself for your future purchases. While enviable, this means that they need to make upgrades that make people reach for their wallet. The more parts that cannot be user-upgraded, the more likely people are to buy a new system to get the new faster processor, bigger memory, larger/faster drives, etc. And having a battery that is not user swapable reinforces that your computer is old when you battery stops holding charge at 4+ years of age.
.... Or just spend $80 and get your battery replaced.
Newer faster processor - Intel has been a yawnfest for YEARS now. My 2010 Mac Pro can still compete with my 2015 custom built computer (which does not have Quick Sync on it for some reason). Intel themselves that Kaby Lake was only around 25% better than processors released now 4 years ago (they made the comment in 2016 when they compared it to 2013 processors). I am so fed up with Intel my next computer build is going to be Ryzen. Seriously, a $399 processor beats Intel's $1000 processor in many tests.
Bigger memory - the 2017 iMac's RAM is user-serviceable. As I said before, most professionals make up their cost of a $3K system in probably a month or two. So getting one with more RAM would mean nothing. Better to get a replacement then to break the system installing memory. These systems are used to put food on their tables. They will not just gut it out and mess around inside.
larger/faster drives - USB3/TB3 makes this pointless. I would say get 512GB or 1TB SSD internal and all external hard drives are just as fast as internal hard drives. The highest benchmarks I have seen so far on spinning drives without any RAID or some sort of caching is 300 MB/s with the new BarraCuda Pro drives. Still within USB3 speeds. Before that drive, we were looking at 210 MB/s max for a WD Black 6 TB. Not even higher than SATA II speeds still.
I do not know what the issue is with not wanting external drives. But my 2017 iMac has VERY FAST 30 TBs of storage.
Probably people who actually like to have truly portable laptops with real battery life, and not have to resort to 7 lb behemoths with extra batteries.
Workstation class laptops as you describe are basically like desktops in a smaller box. It seems Apple has chosen not to target this market, which makes sense, as the Apple-specific customers for this type of product is likely miniscule.
Instead, they will wait for LPDDR for real portable laptops, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. And they only have to wait one more year, to have a 4 lb 15" laptop with long battery life and 32 GB.
It certainly isn't Apple's issue, any anyone here who is claiming so is just ignorant. But there are a LOT of ignorant posts on here.
But by your logic, why discuss anything on here at all? Nothing anyone says will change what Apple or its suppliers do or when they choose (or are able) to do it. I'd guess that 98% of posts are useless, with the rest providing educational nuggets for readers. But it's simply the case that Internet forums provide a place for people to blather on. Like me right now.
Anyway, they've already said they aren't going to hurt your 16GB configuration, and I'd agree with that decision. So regardless, that too is a moot point.
It certainly isn't Apple's issue, any anyone here who is claiming so is just ignorant. But there are a LOT of ignorant posts on here.
But by your logic, why discuss anything on here at all? Nothing anyone says will change what Apple or its suppliers do or when they choose (or are able) to do it. I'd guess that 98% of posts are useless, with the rest providing educational nuggets for readers. But it's simply the case that Internet forums provide a place for people to blather on. Like me right now.
Anyway, they've already said they aren't going to hurt your 16GB configuration, and I'd agree with that decision. So regardless, that too is a moot point.
It will if it is 16GB of DDR4 desktop memory. 16GB DDR4 vs 32GB of DDR4 doesn't make a difference. It is LPDDR vs DDR
Phil Schiller explicitly addressed this 11 months ago and said they will not use DD4 and are waiting on LPDDR. That's why I said the point is moot.
This doesn't make sense to me at all.
You're not buying a top end 15" laptop to doddle around on FaceBook, you're using it to do real work. Crunching numbers while not on power isn't going to lead to everlasting battery life, that's why they're called mobile workstations - They're a compromise between a proper workstation and a laptop. Normal laptop not being powerful enough to do what you want to do. As with all compromises, the compromise from having performance is a reliance on power...
So why does the 15" MBP exist at all?
I mean, I could understand if this was a 15" plain 'ol MacBook, but we're talking an extra grand here for extra features that don't make sense for someone who wants a mobile workstation. Is it for "Kind of Pro but not really"? If it is, why the hell is it more expensive than fully fledged proper workstations? We're not talking dodgy Chinese back end cheap stuff either, we're talking fully enterprise backed solutions with plethora of support options available...
Everything soldered to the board is ******** in the workstation space as well, you don't want to ditch the entire machine just because a graphics card burns out, you get on the phone and tell the support company to get their arses to the office NOW and fix it, as downtime is wasted money.
I guess i'm reminiscing of the days when my G4 PowerBook was actually up there with the best of them for the price.
"Pro" is a marketing label. Especially since there is no 15" MacBook (non-pro). I think your previous experience is coloring your expectations.
G4 PowerBook? Seriously? You’ve just lost any credibility you might have had. And yes, I used to own a G4 PowerBook.