3nm Chips From Apple Supplier TSMC to Enter Mass Production This Week

[Kazgarth]

So if I understand this right? It looks as though the standard 3nm chip will be M2 in nomenclature and reserved for the Macbook Pro, Mac Mini released in spring 2023.

The enhanced 3nm process will therefore be the M3 chip.

Wrong, M2 Pro/Max already out in the wild and the spotted Geekbench 5 results indicate that they are using N5P like the regular M2.

'M2 Max' Geekbench Scores Leak Online, Revealing Rumored Specs and Performance

Geekbench scores allegedly for the upcoming "M2 Max" chip have surfaced online, offering a closer look at the performance levels and specific details of the forthcoming Apple silicon processor. The Geekbench results, first spotted on Twitter, are for a Mac configuration of with the M2 Max chip...

www.macrumors.com

 

[CygnusTC]

So 3 nanometer in 23, 2 in 24, and 1 in 25. Then what? Fractions?

 

[fatTribble]

I definitely get excited by the new technology, but I don’t think any of my iPhones have broken a sweat since maybe the X. My 14 Pro Max has this super fast processor. My internet is a decent 500 Mbps. And yet still in 2022 I sit and wait on a website or app to load.

 

[Mr_Risin_Mojo]

5,4,3,2,1... and the next M-Rumor takes off🚀

 

[EntropyQ3]

It's well-known, from TSMC's own press releases, that the N4P process (likely used in the A16) is 5 nm, not 4 nm:

TSMC Expands Advanced Technology Leadership with N4P Process|Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited

Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C., Oct. 26, 2021 - TSMC (TWSE: 2330, NYSE: TSM) today introduced its N4P process, a performance-focused enhancement of the 5-nanometer technology platform.

pr.tsmc.com

"As the third major enhancement of TSMC’s 5nm family, N4P will deliver an 11% performance boost over the original N5 technology and a 6% boost over N4."

So how much weight should we give to DigiTimes' TSMC reporting when they aren't even aware of something so basic?

The Digitimes reporters are very well aware of TSMC processes. In this case, you seem to be the confused party.

The 3nm process which was in risk production and that didn’t quite perform to par, hence delayed until now, is what is going into volume production. The improved version of that, commonly referred to as N3e in the industry, is assumed to be the one that will see major adoption, and will follow rather close on the heels of this initial version.

There is nothing strange about this report.
It is simultaneously disappointing that this process wasn’t ready for volume production in May, but at the same time it’s nice to see that they are ready to start producing consumer chips on it now.
It offers no density improvement for either SRAM or I/O circuitry and only modest improvements for logic, so pinning large expectations on lithography driven advances would not be wise. Still, there will be some gains. Looking forward to see the end results.

 

[Asbow]

Just in time for their VR/AR product.

Starting at $5999

 

[M1956]

This doesn't make sense. First they say that mass production on the first gen 3 nm chip (N3) starts in a few days, but now they're saying that production on 3 nm is unlikely to ramp up until the next gen 3 nm (N3E) gets underway. This is just screaming out for clarification, yet MR gives us none.

i think charitable interpretation of this sentence is that production of 3nm due to start soon will be limited. Reserved to mainly to apple. The production will 'ramp up', hence become widely available sometime later.

 

[Le0M]

Actually it's too late, the project is already past the testing stage

How do you know they haven't tested it with a 3nm chip?
What goes into mass-production, obviously gets tested before hand

 

[Le0M]

So 3 nanometer in 23, 2 in 24, and 1 in 25. Then what? Fractions?

I had that question a while ago. The answer is, below 2nm it gets very tricky because we are reaching the limit of how small it can get. I mean, after that we would kinda have to move single atoms around...
So unless a new technology is found, we're gonna be stuck at 2nm-ish for a long time.

 

[Christoffee]

And why doesn't MR do some basic fact-checking before posting this stuff?

I consider MacRumors like Wikipedia.

Wikipedia:No original research - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Retskrad]

- AMD and Intel have reached 2200 in Geekbench single-core (while Apple’s newest chip just hit 1880).
-Qualcomm has reached 1550 in single-core and Snapdragon Gen 2 has surpassed the A16 in graphics by a big margin
- Apple lost many of their best chip designers

Tell me again why we should see Apple as a leader?


An interesting comment I found on Hacker News

Most people on the Internet, inclusive but not limited to HN over estimated the lead Apple has.

The Cortex X3 at TSMC N4 used in the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 clocked at 3.26Ghz gets you about ~1500 GB5 Single Core at ~4W. The Apple A16 on the same TSMC N4 clocked at 3.6Ghz gets you about ~1900 GB5 Score using ~5W.

The Cortex X3 is much smaller in die size, and only just started optimising specifically for AArach64. Compared to Apple which is on their forth or fifth iteration.

I would not be surprised if the Cortex X4 breaks the 1800 barrier using under 5W. Compared to a few years ago Apple SoC vs Snapdragon where single core performance differ by more than 2x. The projected difference between the two will be less than 20%.

 

[AvgMrcl]

I no longer see Apple as the leader in the chip space. It’s a combination of:

- AMD and Intel have reached 2200 in Geekbench single-core (while Apple’s newest chip just hit 1880).
-Qualcomm has reached 1550 in single-core and Snapdragon Gen 2 has surpassed the A16 in graphics by a big margin
- Apple lost many of their best chip designers


Tell me again why we should see Apple as a leader?

New M2 Pro hits over 2000 in SC too, might want to compare the power draw and then take into consideration benefits of unified memory and integrated GPU and NE.

 

[bootamac]

It's well-known, from TSMC's own press releases, that the N4P process (likely used in the A16) is 5 nm, not 4 nm:

TSMC Expands Advanced Technology Leadership with N4P Process|Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited

Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C., Oct. 26, 2021 - TSMC (TWSE: 2330, NYSE: TSM) today introduced its N4P process, a performance-focused enhancement of the 5-nanometer technology platform.

pr.tsmc.com

"As the third major enhancement of TSMC’s 5nm family, N4P will deliver an 11% performance boost over the original N5 technology and a 6% boost over N4."

So how much weight should we give to DigiTimes' TSMC reporting when they aren't even aware of something so basic?

And why doesn't MR do some basic fact-checking before posting this stuff? Given that the whole point of this article is to report on a process change, you'd think they want to get the process descriptions right.


This doesn't make sense. First they say that mass production on the first gen 3 nm chip (N3) starts in a few days, but now they're saying that production on 3 nm is unlikely to ramp up until the next gen 3 nm (N3E) gets underway. This is just screaming out for clarification, yet MR gives us none. Come on guys, how putting some thought into these articles, rather than just cutting and pasting a few quotes from another source (which, incidentally is behind a paywall, preventing us from checking it ourselves)?

This seems to be the root source.

TSMC to hold 3nm mass production launch ceremony in southern Taiwan | Taiwan News | Dec. 26, 2022 16:23

TSMC to hold ceremony on Dec. 29 to mark start of 3nm commercial production | Dec. 26, 2022 16:23

www.taiwannews.com.tw

 

[Mega ST]

Mega ST said:
Very good. I am waiting for the MBP with 3nm chip.

Why? That doesn't seem like a normal criteria for choosing a laptop.

In general I need to upgrade to Apple silicon because some software doesn't get updates for intel Macs anymore. I am preferring to not get gen 1 chips of anything (however they might be okay). I want more like gen 2 or gen 3 chips. The smaller they are the less power they need and the longer the battery might last. Perfect for mobile use.

I am using my MBP (currently 2018 and still doing great) for nothing fancy but for many different things as it is a great single box package for all my general needs. But I keep it whenever I have one for some time. I am not a seasonal buyer so I look more for "landmark" upgrades and I hope 3nm will be.

 

[Kyle Andrew]

This is the exact announcement I had been waiting for. Was considering grabbing a refurbed 16" M1 Max, but with the 3nm process upgrade there is likely to be a battery life performance upgrade alongside whatever small clock speed bump we get and improved memory speed. Those factors are probably enough for me to wait a few more months to see what the announcement brings in totality.

 

[surfzen21]

Well it sucks to be an iPhone 14 Pro owner. USB-C and 3nm for the iPhone 15 Pro. 👌

I dont want Usb-C. All my cables are lightning. Ill probably pick up a 14 Pro before the 15 Pro goes on sale.

But if you already have a bunch of Usb-C devices then I could understand how this would be good news.

 

[bruinsrme]

Yay, cat gifs will load even faster

but those with the 3nm chip will be able to brag,

 

[Bonte]

- AMD and Intel have reached 2200 in Geekbench single-core (while Apple’s newest chip just hit 1880).
-Qualcomm has reached 1550 in single-core and Snapdragon Gen 2 has surpassed the A16 in graphics by a big margin
- Apple lost many of their best chip designers

Tell me again why we should see Apple as a leader?


An interesting comment I found on Hacker News

Running what software natively? Apple has a huge lead over MS and has mass production.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

So 3 nanometer in 23, 2 in 24, and 1 in 25. Then what? Fractions?

*gasp*
Decimals. No idea how small (pico? femto?) they can go before they start seeing adverse behavior from quantum effects, but I guess that’s a topic for a rainy day.

 

[citysnaps]

Well it sucks to be an iPhone 14 Pro owner. USB-C and 3nm for the iPhone 15 Pro. 👌

Sucks? Why? My iPhone 14 still makes outstanding photographs, has 2+ day battery life on a charge, has a beautiful display, is quick, lets me make phone calls or emails to anyone in the world 24 hours a day, has a clock to let me know what time it is, fits nicely in my pocket, charges quickly, and gives me access to any website on the globe through the World Wide Web .

I'm probably doing something wrong, so what should I be unhappy about?

I really need to start my day with a good whine-n-moan so I can feel better.

 

[The Cappy]

I suspect that Apple has had a bare minimum performance/watt that it would need to achieve in order to actually have a viable AR/VR headset, and it's simply been waiting for the chip that would actually hit the required target. Hopefully this hits that target.

 

[uller6]

If 3nm M2Pro chips are beginning to ramp up production as soon as this week, there's no reason an announcement couldn't come in the spring.

No way. Finished consumer products will be at least 6 months out from ramp start. The wafers themselves spend about 3 months in processing, then need testing, packaging and more testing. These 3 nm chips will likely go into M3 and M3 pro lines.

 

[uller6]

I had that question a while ago. The answer is, below 2nm it gets very tricky because we are reaching the limit of how small it can get. I mean, after that we would kinda have to move single atoms around...
So unless a new technology is found, we're gonna be stuck at 2nm-ish for a long time.

There is plenty of new technology around to continue improving speeds for the foreseeable future. Yes, things may not continue shrinking, but eventually we’ll move to III-V semiconductors (or other materials) instead of Silicon. There is lots of opportunity

 

[lkrupp]

From what I’ve read on the subject Apple has two benefits to choose from with the 3nm process. They can keep the speed the same and achieve a 30% reduction in power requirements, meaning much longer battery life and thinner cases, OR they can choose a 15% increase in speed with the same power requirements.

So which would you choose?

 

[John Hillier]

Apple's main chip supplier TSMC will kick off mass production of 3nm chips this week, with Apple being the primary customer of the new process, which could first be used in upcoming M2 Pro chips expected to power updated MacBook Pro and Mac mini models.

According to the new report by DigiTimes, TSMC will start mass production of its next-generation 3nm chip process on Thursday, December 29, in line with reports from earlier in the year that said 3nm mass production would begin later in 2022. From the report:
Apple currently uses TSMC's 4nm process in the A16 Bionic chip in the iPhone 14 Pro series but could jump to 3nm as soon as early next year. A report in August claimed the upcoming M2 Pro chips would be the first to be based on the 3nm process. The M2 Pro chip is expected to debut first in updated 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pros early next year and possibly updated Mac Studio and Mac mini models.

Later in 2023, according to another report, the third generation of Apple silicon, the M3 chip, and the A17 Bionic for the iPhone 15, will be based on TSMC's enhanced 3nm process, which has yet to be made available. According to the DigiTimes report today, citing industry sources, production of 3nm process chips is "unlikely to ramp up" until production of the enhanced version gets underway.

Article Link: 3nm Chips From Apple Supplier TSMC to Enter Mass Production This Week

With 3nm being used for the M2 Pro it will be interesting to see how small and power efficient they can make the M3 processor which I’m more excited about 😎