4GB 'iPod Mini' and 15GB iPod

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by Count Blah
Instead of Apple having 95% of the $250+ MP3 market I guess they wanted to go for 98% while ignoring those who have a hard cap of $199 for a non critical item like an MP3 player.

I initially thought the same thing as you. Now, I suspect there is going to be more to come from the mini. Either they have a 2Gb mini that is not ready for release or they expect to be able drop the price on the 4 Gb.
Just my opinion.

 

[splashman]

Eventual price drop on mini?

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I initially thought the same thing as you. Now, I suspect there is going to be more to come from the mini. Either they have a 2Gb mini that is not ready for release or they expect to be able drop the price on the 4 Gb.
Just my opinion.

It'll be interesting to see what Apple does. Generally, they don't drop the price point when components get cheaper. Like with the iPod -- they just up the HD sizes and keep the price the same. But since with the mini, they're aiming at the flash-player market, bigger HD sizes might not make sense. And if mini sales in the first few months are below their expectations, they might just surprise me.

You can bet Apple will be watching the initial sales very, very closely. Any marketing plan carries risk, and this one is no exception.

 

[~Shard~]

I predict additional iPod updates in a few months, come spring/early summer. They will involve changes to the minis (decreases in capacity and/or price), and possibly changes to the normal iPods as well, either changing capacities, dropping prices, or who knows what else. I think I can hold off on buying one until then, but it'll be hard. 😎

 

[Count Blah]

Originally posted by wombat2
Minus the emotional phraseology, yes, pretty much.

Apex and Apple do not look at the market in the same terms. Apple does not want to be Apex. I'm sure Apex would like to be Apple.

I don't see how potentially dominating the top 1/2 or 2/3rds of the MP3 market compares to APEX at all. APEX is a bottom feeder, Apple(with this move) proves again that it is ONLY an elite feeder.

I'm sorry that I just wanted to see Apple kill any and all competition and be the king of market for years to come. Now they will stick to their top 1/3 and let others gain inroads in the bottom 2/3rds. Will Apple still make money? Of course. Would they have dominated the market with a $199 iPod mini? Without a doubt.

 

[wombat2]

I don't see how potentially dominating the top 1/2 or 2/3rds of the MP3 market compares to APEX at all. APEX is a bottom feeder, Apple(with this move) proves again that it is ONLY an elite feeder.

Well ... yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying. Apple has no interest in being Apex. Someone (was it you?) was basically saying that Apple would do well to emulate Apex. Basically, "I want a cheap iPod and I'm disappointed that the iPod Mini isn't a cheap iPod."

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Re: Eventual price drop on mini?

Originally posted by splashman
It'll be interesting to see what Apple does. Generally, they don't drop the price point when components get cheaper. Like with the iPod -- they just up the HD sizes and keep the price the same. But since with the mini, they're aiming at the flash-player market, bigger HD sizes might not make sense. And if mini sales in the first few months are below their expectations, they might just surprise me.

You can bet Apple will be watching the initial sales very, very closely. Any marketing plan carries risk, and this one is no exception.

I don't want to sound angry, but I have already written this a couple of times. Apple did drop the price on the iPod. The 10Gb debuted at $499 and later dropped to $399. When the 3rd Gen. version the 10 Gb was release it was $299.
I would consider that dropping the price.

 

[wombat2]

I imagine the Mini will follow a similar path - new, higher-capacity models introduced for $250, the previous top capacity version reduced in price down to perhaps as low as $179. But it might not be till late in 2004 before anything changes.

 

[feakbeak]

Originally posted by brywalker
Ok. It was a somewhat flawed analogy.

Think of it this way...

How many homes have televisions? How many homes have more than, say, 3 televisions?

There should be at least one iPod for every home that has a computer. And at $250, there is no way they can ever hit that number.

And, feakbeak, that is the point. $250 is a lot in disposable income for a music player. Companies have to shoot for the bottom rung as well as the high end in order to get ahead.

Who ever heard of Apex before they started making sub $100 DVD players? Now you can get them as low as $30, and even though the cheaper ones aren't the best quality, its no wonder that they are one of the top selling players in at least the US. Some people can't justify the cost of getting a $1200 Pioneer Elite DVD player. And thats fine. But Pioneer also has one thats like $150 for people that can't see themselves spending $1200.

I know I am really beating a dead horse here. But the point is that Apple isn't going to be around another 20 years unless they start catering to the other 97% of the computer market and the other 70% of the PDP market. People are still buying portable CD players, not because they are better, but because they are CHEAPER.

Agreed.

It really depends what Apple wants to achieve. Apple has mostly marketed towards the high-end computer/digital media user. Their products are of high quality, well designed and easy to use... and pricy! Which is fine, if those are you business planning goals. Just like, Aston Martin has no intention of selling cars to the mass market.

Apple can choose to pursue the high-end markets, but be honest about it. If Apple honestly thinks they are going to take over the middle MP3 player market (which I believe Steve said himself was the $100-$200 range) with a $250 unit... it's not going to happen.

I honestly believe Apple is capable of delivering a quality low-end iPod at the sub $200 level and if they did, especially if they could sell it at $149 or even $179 and still turn a profit, even a small one that they honestly could pick up another 30-35% of market share.

I know a lot of friends and coworkers that think the iPod is awesome, but won't get one because no digital music player is worth that much money to them and that is a reasonable opinion to have. I know hardcore Apple fans would like to say "to hell with those people" and that's fine... but then don't expect Apple to dominate the entire market. Because someone else will take Apple's creative ideas and cheapen the quality, take away some features, streamline the manufacturing process, mass-market it and make more profit and become the household name. It's happened to Apple before and it very well might happen again.

You cannot exclusively make the "best of the best" products and place them in every home - just like Aston Martin can't expect to have their cars in all of our driveways and still only sell the worlds best cars. There's nothing wrong with being dedicated to only making high-end goods and selling them for a premium price, but your actions should match your words and right now Apple seems a bit confused about what they are trying to do... just my two cents!

 

[Count Blah]

Originally posted by wombat2
Well ... yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying. Apple has no interest in being Apex. Someone (was it you?) was basically saying that Apple would do well to emulate Apex. Basically, "I want a cheap iPod and I'm disappointed that the iPod Mini isn't a cheap iPod."

To emulate Apex would be to throw in the towel. Apex could be easily replaced by another no name, and they would not be missed. ZERO brand loyalty. Apple on the other hand is now built upon brand loyalty. I simply wished Apple would have produced/priced something that the top 1/2 to 2/3 of the MP3 market would eat up(not the <=$100 market). But they missed that chance.

Agree or disagree, at this point I don't care. I was just wishing for Apple to totally win for once. At this price, they will remain at <40% of the MP3 market when they had a chance to go well over 50%

 

[splashman]

Re: Re: Eventual price drop on mini?

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I don't want to sound angry, but I have already written this a couple of times. Apple did drop the price on the iPod. The 10Gb debuted at $499 and later dropped to $399. When the 3rd Gen. version the 10 Gb was release it was $299.
I would consider that dropping the price.

Whoops -- sorry about that. I've read most of the 25 pages of posts, but I must have missed that.

Since my memory is obviously flawed, remind me: what was the lowest-priced iPod when they were first introduced?

 

[brywalker]

spashman:

They were $499.

 

[morningstar]

I haven't read the whole thing . . . sorry if this has been covered . . .

Am I the only one who would like to see an actual picture instead of this obvious photoshop job on the Apple website?

I'll probably get (at least) one. I'm a fashionista, and the different colors plus small size will go well with hot, tight outfits.

Regarding the price issue . . . if 50 dollars is nothing more to spend for 15 gigs, why is it so absurd to pay additionally for the mini, from $200? And if they had just lowered the price of the 10 gigger, as some have suggested, wouldn't everybody here be moaning about the lack of minis?

I think it's a fantastic and exciting little machine, and I think there is a market for people who already have big iPods (I have a 30) but want something smaller when they don't need their entire collection with them. I certainly wouldn't mind an extra mini to match me when I don't feel like carrying a bag or purse or coat with big pockets. On a warm summer day, I might wear a pair of tight jeans and a tee shirt and go out for coffee. I can slip this in my pocket a lot better than anything else.

My only question is, why no necklace? Seems like a lot of mini-players are getting this now. Could be a cool addition. 🙂

 

[i_am_a_cow]

Originally posted by sfhc21
Very disappointing. I don't understand how this will compete with the lower priced MP3 players out there - its still too expensive to do so.

Great concept - terrible price.

YOU GUYS ALL JUST ****. Foreal. Rio is making a 4gb model for the EXACT SAME PRICE. This means that the mini iPod at a competitive price. Honestly, this is a HARD DRIVE player. More space... duh.

When have you known Apple to make products and sell them for the same price as competitors?

 

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by morningstar
hot, tight outfits.

[off topic]


if MORNINGSTAR == "FEMALE" {

}

😀

[/off topic]

 

[rohan25]

What Hard Drive does the new Mini use

Does anyone know which 4GB Drive the mini iPod is using. Is it Hitachi's 4GB microdrive?

Thanks
Manish

 

[edesignuk]

Re: What Hard Drive does the new Mini use

Originally posted by rohan25
Is it Hitachi's 4GB microdrive?

Thanks
Manish

Yes, there is a therad about it somewhere.

edit: here, Hitachi Drive in iPod Mini

 

[rohan25]

Thanks Jamie

 

[localhero]

UK price...

I can't believe the pricing. And further I can't believe the UK price of £199???

Why? The pound hasn't been this strong against the dollar for so long.

I love my Mac, and I'm a loyal Mac guy, but this is Apple just bleeding us here in the UK.

 

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by rohan25
Thanks Jamie

😱 stalker! how do you know my "real" name?

Anyway, no problem.

 

[rohan25]

I am sorry its on your website "The Jatrix"

 

[engelb15]

Originally posted by i_am_a_cow
YOU GUYS ALL JUST ****. Foreal. Rio is making a 4gb model for the EXACT SAME PRICE. This means that the mini iPod at a competitive price. Honestly, this is a HARD DRIVE player. More space... duh.

When have you known Apple to make products and sell them for the same price as competitors?

Settle down mad_cow. The $249 for the Rio is estimated, who knows what it will really be after it is offically released, and even if the MSRP does end up to be $249 it will be availible for close to $200 everywhere. And if not, it to will fail alongside the Mini.

 

[diggy]

ipods ipods and more ipods, more or less

In the flux of the ipod rumors I sold my new 10 gigger thinking a 2 gigger for $100 or $150 would be perfect...

best laid plans...

meanwhile I saw add on small dog
for refurbed old-school 10 gigger for $169.00 and boom/ half the price
and I am pod exstatic.

 

[wombat2]

So let me see if I have this right.

"Apple is charging too much. They will fail."

"Yes, other manufacturers are charging the same thing, for the same specs minus the aluminum case, Apple brand name and iTunes compatibility."

"Yes, it's true, nobody else is offering this product at all. Others are offering Flash players with 1/16th the capacity for $50 less."

"But that Rio - I don't care what they SAY the price is, it'll really be cheaper!"

"And Apple cannot possibly sell anything for more than another company sells the same product for! No, Apple must be cheaper than everybody else!"

 

[brywalker]

"But that Rio - I don't care what they SAY the price is, it'll really be cheaper!"

You see, in the real world there is this thing called MSRP. Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. That means if the MSRP is $250, retailers are **SUGGESTED** to sell it at that price, but they can do whatever they want to make a profit. If they want to sell it for .20 over cost, hey knock yourself out.

Now in the Apple world, MSRP means "If you sell this for less than what we say you lose the right, no PRIVILEGE, to sell Apple products."

The Rio will be less than $250.

 

[Codemonkey]

Originally posted by brywalker
You see, in the real world there is this thing called MSRP. Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. That means if the MSRP is $250, retailers are **SUGGESTED** to sell it at that price, but they can do whatever they want to make a profit. If they want to sell it for .20 over cost, hey knock yourself out.

Now in the Apple world, MSRP means "If you sell this for less than what we say you lose the right, no PRIVILEGE, to sell Apple products."

The Rio will be less than $250.

Just to underscore this - I use US MSRP as a rough gauge as to how expensive it would be here in Canada. IE - MSRP is ~30-50% higher than street price.