4K Apple TV with a 1080p TV

[benji888]

...
Here is my set up - nothing special but it fits together quality-wise
TV is an LG 50" Plasma THX Certified 1080P
Receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR608 Feeding a Canton 5.1 surround system
400Mbps Downstream Internet distributed via an Asus RT-AC87U Router

...
On the ATV 3 I had Dolby Digital & Audio Output set to Auto, & automatically got the Dolby Digital Logo lighting up on the receiver (See more below)
Now with the 4K you get "Audio Output" "Audio Mode" & "Surround Sound"
Audio Output now relates to where the 4K sends the sound; I had the choice of the 4K, the ATV3, or any of my Wi-Fi connected speakers in other parts of the House
Audio Mode is the new name for what was called "Audio Output" on the ATV 3 - choice of Auto or fixed to 16 bit
Under Surround Sound you have
Best Quality Available
Dolby Digital 5.1
Stereo

At first I had it set to "Best Quality Available", but then noticed that I did not get the red Dolby Digital indicator either on the Film or the TV episode, although the sound was the same as if I set it to DD 5.1. On further reading, it turns out that on "certain" (read "older") receivers, the BQA setting will not activate the indicator even though you are actually getting DD 5.1 or 7.1 depending on your set up.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

So overall I am very happy. Definitely a good step up from the ATV 3 in many respects, & I'm all set for when I get a 4K OLED later this year along with a new Receiver.

If I can help in any way with any questions, happy to!

When you get a new receiver, be sure it can handle DV or pass through HDMI 2.0a, and get certified HDMI cables...you can try any HDMI cable, but, if you have one not made to spec, it won't have the bandwidth to pass 4K w/HDR...if you have problems, first try a different cable.

Surround Sound: What is happening is (at this point in time), with "Best Quality Available" (same as what was called "Auto"), you should be seeing "LPCM multichannel" on your receiver, as, what apple does is take the DD or DD+ audio, mix it with the system sounds, then outputs it as LPCM. So, to take advantage of the DD+ audio, when available, you'll want to put it on "Best Quality Available", (Dolby Digital Plus is a slightly better version of Dolby Digital). ...When you set it to "Dolby Digital 5.1" the ATV is down mixing to DD5.1. So, that being said, you'll want to set your audio output to 4K so that the higher quality audio is sent directly to your receiver through the HDMI cable. See also: #107

 

[macpeach55]

When you get a new receiver, be sure it can handle DV or pass through HDMI 2.0a, and get certified HDMI cables...you can try any HDMI cable, but, if you have one not made to spec, it won't have the bandwidth to pass 4K w/HDR...if you have problems, first try a different cable.

Surround Sound: What is happening is (at this point in time), with "Best Quality Available" (same as what was called "Auto"), you should be seeing "LPCM multichannel" on your receiver, as, what apple does is take the DD or DD+ audio, mix it with the system sounds, then outputs it as LPCM. So, to take advantage of the DD+ audio, when available, you'll want to put it on "Best Quality Available", (Dolby Digital Plus is a slightly better version of Dolby Digital). ...When you set it to "Dolby Digital 5.1" the ATV is down mixing to DD5.1. So, that being said, you'll want to set your audio output to 4K so that the higher quality audio is sent directly to your receiver through the HDMI cable. See also: #107

My next receiver will probably be the Denon AVRX1400H. A lovely unit

I am currently using an HDMI 2.0 Cable from Uplink / CSL which is a rated company over here.

By the Way, I swapped back to "Best Quality Available" last night & found that at least on my receiver (Set to PCM Input) I did not get Surround Sound. Swapping back to "DD 5.1" all was good again

 

[Mabus51]

Thanks! this what I was hoping to find in this thread - a few real tests of this.

I find "HD" quality varies, I wish I could watch real HD and I think 1080p is sufficient for me, especially with slightly less then perfect vision and sitting about 10 ft away. But much of the program out there is low bit-rate HD so any action and the quality falls apart to SD. My hope was I could get the new 4KATV, stream the 4K content with 4K bit-rate and downscale to 1080p - resulting in noticeably improved HD quality overall.

Any more real-world examples out there of 4K ATV on 1080P TV?

If you put the 4K ATV in 1080P mode you get the 1080P stream. You won’t be able to stream the 4K version. Same goes with bandwidth. If your bandwidth is lower than 25mbps you’ll only get the 1080P version.

 

[luy]

Im using a HD Fury Linker to get a 4k stream from the Apple TV, which gets converted by the Linker to 1080p then. Its a noticeably improved quality.

 

[benji888]

My next receiver will probably be the Denon AVRX1400H. A lovely unit

I am currently using an HDMI 2.0 Cable from Uplink / CSL which is a rated company over here.

By the Way, I swapped back to "Best Quality Available" last night & found that at least on my receiver (Set to PCM Input) I did not get Surround Sound. Swapping back to "DD 5.1" all was good again

Hmm, that’s odd, you should be getting 5.1 channels with PCM, i can with mine. Oh well, that Denon looks like a nice upgrade

 

[surfer369]

I also have Vizio 1080p tv, and just got the ATV 4k. I think it looks good, I don't know if its placebo effect where I feel everything looks slightly better or it actually is. I did notice that the HBO GO app looks much much better than on playing through fire tv or the nvidia shield.

 

[evolute8]

I live outside of USA.

For now I’m using VPN app to watch Hulu & HBO Now on my iPhone & iPad.

Am I able to install VPN app on Apple TV?

If not, am I able to screen mirror my iPhone/iPad to my TV via Apple TV?

 

[ceraz]

Maybe someone can clarify on a mixed ATV4/ATV4k and 1080p/4K TV environment:

ATV4 (non 4k) can downscale 4K movies at 30fps to display on 1080p TVs. For, example an iPhone 4k recorded movie.

Question 1 : What happens if you have a locally stored 4K HDR (60fps) file in iTunes in a mixed environment?

Obviously the ATV 4K will play it on a 4K TV or downscale to 1080p if necessary (ie TV limitation).
Can (or will) the standard ATV4 downscale the same 4k HDR movie file to 1080p?

Question 2 : Can a locally stored 4k HDR (60fps) file in iTunes be streamed independently of the CPU architecture?

For example, can a Mac Mini (late 2014) with a CPU that only supports 4k 30fps output, stream a 4k HDR file to over LAN connection. I assume so, as iTunes just airplays to the ATV and doesn't decode file content.

Thanks

 

[priitv8]

Question 2 : Can a locally stored 4k HDR (60fps) file in iTunes be streamed independently of the CPU architecture?

Yes, you can. You just can not play back 4K movies at 60fps on apple TV.
Apple HLS authoring spec says 30fps is max for HDR content only but my aTV 4K refuses to play also SDR content at 60fps in UHD resolution.

 

[ceraz]

Yes, you can. You just can not play back 4K movies at 60fps on apple TV.
Apple HLS authoring spec says 30fps is max for HDR content only but my aTV 4K refuses to play also SDR content at 60fps in UHD resolution.

Thanks,

I'm confused by this response as the HLS stands for HTTP Live streaming not Airplay. iPhone 8 has a 4k 60fps with a HDR setting for recording. I don't have any so I can't check. Are you suggesting the ATV 4k can't playback these recordings?

 

[priitv8]

Are you suggesting the ATV 4k can't playback these recordings?

I can not say for sure, because I do not have iP8 either. But mine definitely refuses to play any 4K size clip that has 60fps framerate. Only "Unsupported format" is displayed on screen.
And that is from local iTunes library via Home Sharing.

 

[bigcahuna12c]

HEVC is part of TVOS11 so ATV4 is getting that as well. And gigabit really isn't needed even for 4k streaming.

A slightly different take on the gigabit issue. While yes it is not needed. It is most definitely a welcome addition. When watching a movie through itunes, the movie is actually downloaded & stored while you watch.
Netflix, Hulu etc use a buffer only. If you have multiple devices in your home as I do, then a gigabit connection allows me to take full advantage of my 300 mbs connection. The movie downloads so much faster thus freeing up that bandwidth for other things. For reference I have 4 of the ATV 4. I just replaced one of those with ATV 4K. My unscientific test on the ATV 4 is that on the same movie I am on average about half to three quarters of the way through movie before it completes download.
ATV 4K in same location approximately 25 percent through when download is complete.

 

[jockethebastard]

I got my ATV 4K yesterday. I also have the ATV 3 and it is still connected up to my receiver, so easy to make a Comparison. Just to say that I really like the quickness of the 4K, & i do like the new interface, & the remote versus the old version.

Here is my set up - nothing special but it fits together quality-wise
TV is an LG 50" Plasma THX Certified 1080P
Receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR608 Feeding a Canton 5.1 surround system
400Mbps Downstream Internet distributed via an Asus RT-AC87U Router

Ok, on to the comparison. Up to now I have watched Wonder Woman & an Episode of The Expanse on both units. Picture Quality Wise I detect no real difference, & that is not really surprising seeing as the Receiver sits in between. The streaming itself feels more solid (No sensation that not enough of the Movie is buffered), & the starts of Movies or TV episodes are much quicker. Sound Wise it seems a little more defined, although that could be me just wanting it to be so

You now have some changes with the audio output set up:-

On the ATV 3 I had Dolby Digital & Audio Output set to Auto, & automatically got the Dolby Digital Logo lighting up on the receiver (See more below)
Now with the 4K you get "Audio Output" "Audio Mode" & "Surround Sound"
Audio Output now relates to where the 4K sends the sound; I had the choice of the 4K, the ATV3, or any of my Wi-Fi connected speakers in other parts of the House
Audio Mode is the new name for what was called "Audio Output" on the ATV 3 - choice of Auto or fixed to 16 bit
Under Surround Sound you have
Best Quality Available
Dolby Digital 5.1
Stereo

At first I had it set to "Best Quality Available", but then noticed that I did not get the red Dolby Digital indicator either on the Film or the TV episode, although the sound was the same as if I set it to DD 5.1. On further reading, it turns out that on "certain" (read "older") receivers, the BQA setting will not activate the indicator even though you are actually getting DD 5.1 or 7.1 depending on your set up.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

So overall I am very happy. Definitely a good step up from the ATV 3 in many respects, & I'm all set for when I get a 4K OLED later this year along with a new Receiver.

If I can help in any way with any questions, happy to!

Hi,

You have similar setup as me, also LG plasma , mine from 2013.

I only have one question:

Can you set the ATV 4K to 4K @ 24hz and watch regular 1080p movies/series? Or is the 4K option greyed our cause it detects a non 4K TV?

I’m only interested in getting the 24hz feature on my 1080p TV, is that possible at all?

Thanks!

 

[jasper1977]

Hi,

Can you set the ATV 4K to 4K @ 24hz and watch regular 1080p movies/series? Or is the 4K option greyed our cause it detects a non 4K TV?

I’m only interested in getting the 24hz feature on my 1080p TV, is that possible at all?

Thanks!

It’s possible with the HDFury Linker. I use it to get 24hz output from the Apple TV 4K to my 1080p Kuro plasma tv. The next tvOS 11.2 update apparently has native 1080p24 output, so no need for the Linker anymore!

 

[jockethebastard]

It’s possible with the HDFury Linker. I use it to get 24hz output from the Apple TV 4K to my 1080p Kuro plasma tv. The next tvOS 11.2 update apparently has native 1080p24 output, so no need for the Linker anymore!

That’s great news! Thanks for that, will buy one at once. Can’t understand why they wouldn’t do it on ATV4.

 

[priitv8]

I only have one question:

Can you set the ATV 4K to 4K @ 24hz and watch regular 1080p movies/series? Or is the 4K option greyed our cause it detects a non 4K TV?

I’m only interested in getting the 24hz feature on my 1080p TV, is that possible at all?

I think, you are mixing up two different cases:
a) watching sub-4K content while aTV output res has been set to 4K@somehz or 1080p@somehz
b) connecting aTV 4K to a non-4K screen.

In both cases the answer should be YES, with remarks.
For a) the output set on aTV just determines who will be the upscaler (a 4K screen can not reduce its number of pixels that need to be driven, so upscaling will happen). If you set aTV to output 4K, it will itself make sure anything you play, is expanded to fill 3860x2160 screen. If you set it to 1080p, it will be the screen that needs to do it.
For b) it is indeed the case, that aTV 4K will not offer output resolutions that the connected screen can not support. Related question will be - will it downscale your 4K input stream? I haven't tried this, but I could, just for fun. I bet streaming from iTunes Store will already send you a 1080p stream, so that is no problem. I mean playing back 4K res video from your own library, when the input stream can not be adapted.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If you have a 1080p TV, I'd simply watch CL for people offloading 4th gen units for a good price.

Tech changes too quick to be worried about future proofing for 4k if you don't even have any 4k hardware yet.

Also, the cheapest thing in the 4k chain is the streaming box and one really shouldn't worry about future proofing that. Buy what's the best deal for what you need right now and upgrade when you can actually take advantage of it.

 

[-BigMac-]

White circle around the Menu button.

Also, AirPlay 2 might be exclusive to Apple TV 4K.

LOL I spat out my coffee at work when I read this.

Solid upgrade is solid.

 

[TrenttonY]

I'm getting an Apple TV 4K, but I have a question.

I do not have a 4K TV nor have 4K content. I have a standard 1080p TV with a standard 1080p HDMI cord.
The Apple TV 4K is backwards compatible right?

 

[scouser75]

I'm getting an Apple TV 4K, but I have a question.

I do not have a 4K TV nor have 4K content. I have a standard 1080p TV with a standard 1080p HDMI cord.
The Apple TV 4K is backwards compatible right?

Absolutely dude. I also have a "standard" 1080p tele and it works OK. But to be absolutely honest, if you are not planning on upgrading to a 4K set any time soon, I'd go for the previous model and try and bag myself a bargain from eBay or similar. You can then put the money you saved in to more films ;-)

The only reason I bought the 4K box was I bagged a fair bargain.

 

[benji888]

I'm getting an Apple TV 4K, but I have a question.

I do not have a 4K TV nor have 4K content. I have a standard 1080p TV with a standard 1080p HDMI cord.
The Apple TV 4K is backwards compatible right?

Yes it is.

Don't listen to the last commenter, the ATV 4K has a better processor than the older model, I would definitely get it regardless of 4K TV or not. I have the last model and it is actually sometimes laggy.

Your next TV will likely be 4K anyway, then you'll be able to take full advantage of the ATV 4K. You can get more films anytime, in fact, get iTunes gift cards when they go on sale and you'll save money on content.

 

[Appleaker]

Yes, a lot of people seem to say ‘I’m getting the 1080p model because I don’t have a 4K TV or 4K content’.
It’s such a ridiculous reason, not just because the 5th gen has a significantly better processor and more RAM, but also because the difference in price is $30.

 

[fhall1]

It definitely works with a 1080 TV....my opinion is a combination of the three posters above. If you plan on getting a 4K TV soon (within the next 12 months), go for the 4K model - especially if you can get a good deal. If you're 1080 TV is going strong and you won't think about replacing it for a couple years, I'd get the ATV 4th gen model....they come up for sale on the Macrumors marketplace for $80 - $90 (sometimes less) every once in a while.

 

[scouser75]

It definitely works with a 1080 TV....my opinion is a combination of the three posters above. If you plan on getting a 4K TV soon (within the next 12 months), go for the 4K model - especially if you can get a good deal. If you're 1080 TV is going strong and you won't think about replacing it for a couple years, I'd get the ATV 4th gen model....they come up for sale on the Macrumors marketplace for $80 - $90 (sometimes less) every once in a while.

Absolutely.

And to the guy above who said to not listen to me, If OP is going to keep his TV for some time, there are going to be new ATV's released in the interim period, and when op buys a new TV he can buy the most up to date ATV. To me it makes a lot more sense.... Unless as I mentioned above he gets a good deal on the current ATV.

 

[kevk74]

If you already have an Apple tv 4th gen and you have no 4k tv there's no real incentive to upgrade.

But if you were planning to buy an Apple TV anyway, you'd be best to get the new one which isn't all that more expensive than its predecessor considering the difference in graphical and processing power.

[doublepost=1521948429][/doublepost]There is most CERTAINLY a BIG reason to upgrade, the support of 10 bit H265 HEVC video codec. While it’s primary need was to shrink the file sizes (and thus the bitrates) of 4K video files (H264 4K is nearly 120GB per movie vs H265 is 60% smaller & preserves same quality) this also applies to 1080p or 720p saved in 10bit H265 HEVC (also sometimes listed as “Main 10” in some specs). The A8 chip does NOT have ability to hardware decode (a thus play) H265 material. The A9 chip and above have the ability and even more, the A10 and above have the ability to store pictures in the HEIF format which is ALSO half the size of a full res jpeg. The A10X chip is a BEAST and is in the iPad Pro for a reason. It even benches more than the A11 chip in some tests b/c of the “X” giving it a 3rd GPU Core. The A8 chip is rumored to have H265 decoding ability according to the HEVC website, but my guess is Apple, in an effort to avoid paying patent rights on every A8 containing device, decided to deny developers access to what was likely only a H265 hardware decoder and still on the edge of being powerful enough to not even encode H265 and thus, justify the expense of paying the patent. The A8 has multicore scores around 2400 vs. A11 getting near 10000. On the Antutu bench the A10X saw 220,000 while the A11 saw just over 202,000. By contrast the A8 was closer to 48,000 I think. Full 75% less performance in some tests.