4K HDR Content Rolling Out on iTunes Ahead of Apple TV 4K Launch

[Cigsm]

LOLOLOL What??? Sorry to burst your bubble but the streaming isn't anywhere near the physical disc quality. The bit rates are drastically different and obviously it's much higher for physical media.

Not true, 1080P streaming was the same as the Blu-ray counterpart. 4K shows on Netflix were the same as the UHD counterpart as well. I’d assume Apple’s h.265 codec will be able to handle it as well. The flags are there but I don’t believe the files are available.

 

[mmm1345]

I'd love a list of app 4K titles. Right now it's a guessing game.

This Vudu UHD list should give you a good idea of what's available digitally. It's not a lot and most of it are recent releases. But honestly, I don't think 4K UHD makes that much difference in older catelog titles. A bunch of older films came out in the last few weeks that didn't have UHD digital versions - blade runner, e.t., fifth element, close encounters and T2. I'm not convinced those titles are worth getting in 4k.

And of course it doesn't include all of the current 100+ 4K UHDs. Here's your list.

https://www.vudu.com/movies/#featured/12434/UHD-Collection

 

[chopdog]

Gotta say, pretty cool and ‘generous’ (and smart) of Apple to upgrade HD purchases to UHD free. I just wonder how broad their selection will be,

...This alone might push ATV4k market forward quick, and even surpass UHD BluRay’s which have been slow to adopt (but helped by Xbox 1S having a 4K blu ray drive)

They do nothing for generosity! I bet their name is mud in the studio system right now, particularly the smaller independents.

But I'm enjoying seeing the upgrade. No sign of iTunes downloads yet.

 

[thadoggfather]

They do nothing for generosity! I bet their name is mud in the studio system right now, particularly the smaller independents.

But I'm enjoying seeing the upgrade. No sign of iTunes downloads yet.

That's why I say 'generous' in quotes haha

 

[Brenster]

Sweet! HDR content on my S8+ is so damn beautiful. Can't wait to see that content on the 10. Thanks bro!

Just need Apple to post the same details for the iPad Pro and I’m off for a purchase this evening myself. Enjoy!

 

[palmerc]

Your calculation is of by a factor of 8.
The number on the left is Bits/s, on the right you have GigaBytes.

15 Mbps gives you about 6.75 GBytes/hour without counting protocol overhead...

And to everyone that thinks these files are going to be huge, they'll be bigger, but not big like you think. This was a similar miscalculation made with the launch of iTunes HD (1080p). Films of 2 hours in length are roughly 5GB at 1080p from iTunes. With the launch of HEVC encoding you should see those file sizes drop in half.

 

[mmm1345]

Excited by this. Having very recently purchased a 65” TV, together with many titles bought from iTunes in HD over the years (many thanks in particularly to the ‘Movie of the Day’ app!), a 4K upscaling on those titles is great news indeed...

I wen't crazy with the movie a day app before I realized I dropped $300! $4.99 adds up!
[doublepost=1505462133][/doublepost]

It will be interesting to see if Google Play, Vudu, and Amazon match Apple with free upgrades to 4K.

I really hope so. I have 1,000 UltraViolet movies and a lot of my recent 4k purchases didn't have the UHD digital code. I don't see how they can avoid it. They'll lose so many 4K customers (which is a very small percentage) if they don't change their pricing structure fast.
[doublepost=1505462214][/doublepost]

Gotta say, pretty cool and ‘generous’ (and smart) of Apple to upgrade HD purchases to UHD free. I just wonder how broad their selection will be,

...This alone might push ATV4k market forward quick, and even surpass UHD BluRay’s which have been slow to adopt (but helped by Xbox 1S having a 4K blu ray drive)

Here's your base guideline on what the initial selection will be - https://www.vudu.com/movies/#featured/12434/UHD-Collection
[doublepost=1505462333][/doublepost]

Will YouTube be 4K, that's what I care about.

Why wouldn't it be? The YouTube 4K App is on every 4K device I own (PS4, XB1s, Roku, Shield, TV) and ever tested. Don't see why it would be different for the ATV.
[doublepost=1505462638][/doublepost]

Nice!! I hope Titanic is updated to 4K soon

There was a service called Ultra Flix 4k. That had almost the entire Paramount/Universal Catalog available for rental in 4K. I was sooo excited and then they apparently lost the license and all of it went away overnight. But judging by that in the next couple of years there's going to be a lot of great stuff including Godfather Trilogy, Titanic, Beverly Hills Cop (look surprisingly amazing in 4K), Minority Report, etc...

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

And to everyone that thinks these files are going to be huge, they'll be bigger, but not big like you think. This was a similar miscalculation made with the launch of iTunes HD (1080p). Films of 2 hours in length are roughly 5GB at 1080p from iTunes. With the launch of HEVC encoding you should see those file sizes drop in half.

Let's wait and see. Much of the current 4K content is just upscaled from 1080.
For sure the Telcos would love to see good compression rates. The current networks just can not sustain constant bit-rate streams in the region of 100 Mbit/s for millions of subscribers.

I personally think that video codecs are a fairly mature field and that the huge gains in compression seen in the past are over. Sure you can compress stuff down tremendously, however it comes with tradeoffs that might might make a visible difference.

 

[mmm1345]

This is going to fail so bad. Seriously, no download option? I cannot stream at 4K. Internet in the US sucks horribly.

Download option would be amazing. Only problem is the file sizes would be huge and there's only 64 GB. I hope Apple improves their streaming back end. One of the reasons I prefer Vudu is Apple streams get stuck in buffering heck just streaming a 1hr show in HD, can't imagine how it'll handle 4K Dolby Vision.

 

[Asgerhj]

1) That has nothing to do with bitrate. Name me a single Blu-ray title that would be higher than the theoretical throughput of 15Mibps if streamed. Blu-rays are 25 and 50GB, and 15Mibps is 52.7 GiB. If you run the numbers even ore you see that at even at 3GiB per hour from iTS you only need a sustained 6.81Mibps throughout for that node.

15 Mbit/s gives 6.75 GB/hour...

 

[mmm1345]

Rent the 4K HDR UHD Blu-ray from 3D Bluray rental.com for $5.99. The picture quality will be much better than a streaming version.

Adore 3D Blu-ray. I'm on the 10 disc a month plan for $27. Great thing is they send you everything as soon as it's available, so at any given time I have 10 4K UHD films.
[doublepost=1505463412][/doublepost]Next step - For the love of god can we get rid of Letter Boxing? It made sense when everyone had 4:3 TVs. But people getting 4K TVs are getting large (50 inch+) WIDE SCREEN Tvs, it makes zero sense to still have letter boxing.

 

[palmerc]

Let's wait and see. Much of the current 4K content is just upscaled from 1080.
For sure the Telcos would love to see good compression rates. The current networks just can not sustain constant bit-rate streams in the region of 100 Mbit/s for millions of subscribers.

I personally think that video codecs are a fairly mature field and that the huge gains in compression seen in the past are over. Sure you can compress stuff down tremendously, however it comes with tradeoffs that might might make a visible difference.

You should read up on HEVC compression. The performance in testing is >60% for both 1080p and 4K. So, you might consider the field mature, but that doesn't represent shipping codecs and encoding systems, and the improvements that have been made in the field over the last few years.

 

[mmm1345]

1) When someone claims that basic math and Apple's very own statement about what they require as sustained throughput is for getting 4K+HDR is wrong… then it's your fault. It's certainly not Spectrum's fault for making you think that 300Mibps isn't enough for a file that is probably around 2GiB per hour.

2) If it "drops to just 3 or 5 down A LOT" then you aren't getting the requisite sustained minimum for streaming. This isn't Apple's fault.

There are a LOT of factors that goes into what type of stream someone gets. Local network congestion, quality of cable bandwidth, Apple's network congestion, etc. Don't sit there and call someone a liar just because YOUR service works perfectly fine.

Just because a company has a speed "recommendation" means nothing. Usually companies radically underestimate how much speed is required for streaming. I have a 175mbs Xfinity Service and I get a LOT of buffering on iTunes 1080p Streams where it streams stuff perfectly fine on my other devices.

 

[HiRez]

Let's wait and see. Much of the current 4K content is just upscaled from 1080.

That's what I'm worried about. How do you tell if a movie is "true" 4K? In other words remastered in 4K with a 4K transfer (or shot/rendered in 4/8K)?

And the same with HDR. Just like with other parts of the mastering process I have to assume there is good HDR where people are tweaking every scene by hand, and bad HDR where it's just run through some automated process at default settings, or worse, marked as HDR despite not actually having it at all.

 

[scouser75]

I may be naive here with my comment, but I can't believe Apple has not offered a monthly film service like their Apple music service. Amazon and Vudu (I believe) offer it. If they're going big with ATV4K they surely must go big with a service to go with it!

 

[palmerc]

There are a LOT of factors that goes into what type of stream someone gets. Local network congestion, quality of cable bandwidth, Apple's network congestion, etc. Don't sit there and call someone a liar just because YOUR service works perfectly fine.

Just because a company has a speed "recommendation" means nothing. Usually companies radically underestimate how much speed is required for streaming. I have a 175mbs Xfinity Service and I get a LOT of buffering on iTunes 1080p Streams where it streams stuff perfectly fine on my other devices.

Hasn't it been established that the US is an Internet backwater? It ranks very low in speeds and with the corporate environment I'm guessing the speeds are subject to a lot of corporate shenanigans. It's going to be even worse with the death of Net Neutrality. Sad.

 

[Strelok]

That's what I'm worried about. How do you tell if a movie is "true" 4K? In other words remastered in 4K with a 4K transfer (or shot/rendered in 4/8K)?

And the same with HDR. Just like with other parts of the mastering process I have to assume there is good HDR where people are tweaking every scene by hand, and bad HDR where it's just run through some automated process at default settings, or worse, marked as HDR despite not actually having it at all.

From what I remember, all movies are shot in much higher quality than even 4K. The source material is never the issue. It just comes down to how they remaster it.

 

[palmerc]

I may be naive here with my comment, but I can't believe Apple has not offered a monthly film service like their Apple music service. Amazon and Vudu (I believe) offer it. If they're going big with ATV4K they surely must go big with a service to go with it!

I think it is pretty well established Apple is trying, but content providers are pretty determined to not repeat the digital Music debacle. Apple is having trouble getting terms that match up with their desired product or products.

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

You should read up on HEVC compression. The performance in testing is >60% for both 1080p and 4K. So, you might consider the field mature, but that doesn't represent shipping codecs and encoding systems, and the improvements that have been made in the field over the last few years.

Do you have a reference on the difference between Apples HEVC and the HEVC UHD-Blu-ray Codec (aka H.265)?
It is not that others have sit still in the meantime and simply gone with bigger and bigger file sizes for no reason at all...

 

[scouser75]

Strewth, I've just compared the US and UK prices for John Wick and it works out more expensive to rent and buy in the UK than the US. US rental = $2.99. UK rental = £3.49. US to buy = $7.99. UK to buy = £7.99.

The question is why is the rental price for UK more expensive?

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

From what I remember, all movies are shot in much higher quality than even 4K. The source material is never the issue. It just comes down to how they remaster it.

Maybe stuff that has been filmed in the last 2 years. 4K digital motion picture cameras are only available since about 2013/4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arri_Alexa

Edit:
Ok, the RED One started 4K earlier, however even they introduced 8K only in 2015. So I guess there are not very many movies shot in 8K yet...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema_Camera_Company

 

[Antoni Nygaard]

It seems that allot of movies that are shot in 4K or more just gets a 2K master and then they use that for UHD Blu-ray so they scaled it up. The revenant was shot around 6K and got af 4K final master which is also used for the UHD blu-ray.

Guardians of the Galaxy looks like it got af 2K master they scale that one up for the UHD blu-ray.

 

[solipsism]

There are a LOT of factors that goes into what type of stream someone gets. Local network congestion, quality of cable bandwidth, Apple's network congestion, etc. Don't sit there and call someone a liar just because YOUR service works perfectly fine.

Just because a company has a speed "recommendation" means nothing. Usually companies radically underestimate how much speed is required for streaming. I have a 175mbs Xfinity Service and I get a LOT of buffering on iTunes 1080p Streams where it streams stuff perfectly fine on my other devices.

If you were paying attention you'd now that's not the discussion. He called me a liar, well actually Apple,since I posted their statement minimum sustained throughput that he discounted outright. Everything I stated was factual, which includes him being able to get 4K from iTS if he can get his connection to maintain at least 15Mibps instead of suggestion that his 300Mibps connection isn't even good enough for iTS content at any bitrate.
[doublepost=1505466684][/doublepost]

Do you have a reference on the difference between Apples HEVC and the HEVC UHD-Blu-ray Codec (aka H.265)?
It is not that others have sit still in the meantime and simply gone with bigger and bigger file sizes for no reason at all...

I'd bet there's a logic reason, even if that's just playing it safe. It can take a lot of extra effort to idealize given video to another source and then verify it. Hope either Apple and/or their content vendors are using SW (written by Apple) encode to HEVC after testing the content and looking for areas of concern that may affect playback quality. Hopefully they can look at how the colors are placed and transitions so a program and idealize the settings to make it as small as possible with out losing any of the quality. Here's a list of some settings: Profile type, level, FPS, VFR, RF, and others.

I'm not even sure if any of this is affected by having HDR, but I'm sure we'll see a lot of testing over the next several weeks.

 

[kfury77]

List of iTunes 4K films so far: (alphabetical - taken from: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=14083346#post14083346)

Alien Convenant
Allied (Dolby Vision)
American Sniper (Dolby Vision)
Annabelle (Dolby Vision)
Argo (Dolby Vision)
Arrival (Dolby Vision)
Assassin's Creed
Baby Driver (Dolby Vision)
Batman And Harley Quinn
Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice (Dolby Vision)
Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice (Ultimate Edition)
Ben-Hur (2016)
Bourne Legacy
Bourne Ultimatum
Central Intelligence (Dolby Vision)
Chappie (Dolby Vision)
Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (Director's Cut) (Dolby Vision)
Collateral Beauty (Dolby Vision)
Creed (Dolby Vision)
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (Dolby Vision)
Deadpool (HDR)
Despicable Me (Dolby Vision)
Eddie The Eagle
Entourage
Everest (Dolby Vision)
Ex Machina (HDR)
Fantastic Beat And Where To Find Them (Dolby Vision)
Fast & Furious 6 (Extended Edition)
Fifty Shades Darker (HDR)
Fifty Shades Of Grey
Focus (Dolby Vision)
Furioius 7 (Extended Edition) (HDR)
Fury (Dolby Vision)
Gallows (Dolby Vision)
Get Hard
Ghost In The Shell (2017) (Dolby Vision)
Ghostbusters (1984)
Goodfellas (Non Remastered Edition) (Dolby Vision)
Great Gatsby (Dolby Vision)
Hacksaw Ridge (Dolby Vision)
Hangover (Dolby Vision)
Hangover Part II (Dolby Vision)
Hercules (2014)
Hidden Figures (Dolby Vision)
Hitman: Agent 47
Hotel Transylvania 2 (Dolby Vision)
How To Be Single (Dolby Vision)
Huntsman: Winters War (Extended Edition)
I Am Legend (Dolby Vision)
Ice Age: Collision Course
In The Heart Of The Sea (Dolby Vision)
Independence Day: Insurgence
Intern (Dolby Vision)
Into The Storm (Dolby Vision)
Jack Reacher: Never Go Back (Dolby Vision)
Jason Bourne
John Wick (Dolby Vision)
John Wick: Chapter 2 (Dolby Vision)
Joy
Jupiter Ascending
Keanu
Keeping Up With Joneses
Kingsman: The Secret Service (HDR)
Kong: Skull Island (Dolby Vision)
La La Land (Dolby Vision)
Labyrinth (Dolby Vision)
Lego Batman (Dolby Vision)
Lego Movie (Dolby Vision)
Life Of Pi (HDR)
Lights Out (Dolby Vision)
Live By Night (Dolby Vision)
Live Die Repeat: Edge Of Tomorrow
Logan (HDR)
Lone Survivor (HDR)
Lost City Of Z
Mad Max: Fury Road (Dolby Vision)
Magic Mike XXL (Dolby Vision)
Magnificent Seven (2016) (Dolby Vision)
Man Of Steel (Dolby Vision)
Maze Runner (HDR)
Maze Runner: Scorch Trials (HDR)
Me Before You (Dolby Vision)
Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates (HDR)
Miss Peregrine's Home For Peculiar Children
Mummy (2017)
Mummy: Tomb Of The Dragon Emperor
Nice Guys (Dolby Vision)
Oblivion
Office Christmas Party (Dolby Vision)
Our Brand Is Crisis (Dolby Vision)
Pacific Rim (Dolby Vision)
Pan (Dolby Vision)
Passengers (Dolby Vision)
Peanuts Movie (2015)
Point Break (2015) (Dolby Vision)
Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes
Run All Night (Dolby Vision)
San Andreas (Dolby Vision)
Secret Life Of Pets
Sherlock Holmes (Dolby Vision)
Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows (Dolby Vision)
Sing
Skyfall
Snatched (2016)
Snow White & The Huntsman (Extended Edition)
Spider-man: Homecoming (Dolby Vision)
Spy (2015)
Star Trek (Dolby Vision)
Star Trek: Beyond (Dolby Vision)
Star Trek: Into Darkness (Dolby Vision)
Starship Troopers (Dolby Vision)
Storks (Dolby Vision)
Suicide Squad (Dolby Vision)
Sully
T2: Trainspotting (Dolby Vision)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out Of The Shadows (Dolby Vision)
Terminator: Genisys (Dolby Vision)
The Accountant
The Conjuring
The Great Wall
The Legend Of Tarzan
The Man From U.N.C.L.E. (Dolby Vision)
The Martian
The Princess Bride
The Town (Dolby Vision)
Unforgiven (Dolby Vision)
Vacation (2015) (Dolby Vision)
War Dogs (Dolby Vision)
Warcraft (HDR)
Why Him
Wild (2014)
Wonder Woman (Dolby Vision)
X-Men: Apocalypse
X-Men: Days Of Future Past (HDR)
XXX: Return Of Xander Cage (Dolby Vision)

 

[twinlight]

Only found one title in my library. Deadpool shows up as 4K in my purchased tab on iTunes on the iPad Pro. Playing said movie goes to movies.app and shows HD 1080.

I hope HDR will be more vibrant on the iPad screen.