4K output from rMBP

[Tom the MacUser]

People underestimate the time it'll take to get to a 4K iMac. We're looking at 2-3 years at the very least. The mass production just isn't there yet and Apple can only do so much to speed it up. Unfortunately, the manufacturing processes needed to make 4K displays are far from efficient and vary wildly in quality from one unit to the next.

Panels of a similar iMac screen size start at $20,000 and go up from there. They're mainly used in medical imaging and don't have the response time needed for everyday use.

4K monitors were made by IBM as early as 2000, and sold to the public in 2001. IBM T221 has a 22.2" 3840x2400 IPS panel. Maximum refresh rate from a single dual-link DVI video output is 31 Hz, with overclocking you can get up to 55 Hz from 2 dual-link DVI video outputs.

That's 1920x1200 HiDPI and you can use these with your Mac today. They are rare, and it is difficult to get them to work at your desired settings, but you can find one used for less than $1000.

Colors and black levels are not as good as on modern IPS panels. Colors are still better than on standard TN panels.

15" RMBP supports two of these at 3840x2400 @ 31 Hz plus its own internal display. I use them for web browsing and software development. Unlike standard monitors, I can use them in portrait mode without any decrease in picture quality. Text remains perfectly sharp and colors remain the same.

 

[Alucardx03]

What refresh rate could you get from HDMI on your 4K projector?

I was able to output 3840x2400 @ 17 Hz out of HDMI for my IBM T221 monitor using SwitchResX.

The current HDMI spec is limited to 24Hz. When the new specs come out (they were supposed to arrive before the end of 2012, and are now said to be coming in mid-to-late 2013), my projector and presumably others will have an updated input board with the higher refresh rates. The good thing is that Sony made it to be about as modular as projectors get, so changes like that are easy.

 

[Tom the MacUser]

The current HDMI spec is limited to 24Hz. When the new specs come out (they were supposed to arrive before the end of 2012, and are now said to be coming in mid-to-late 2013), my projector and presumably others will have an updated input board with the higher refresh rates. The good thing is that Sony made it to be about as modular as projectors get, so changes like that are easy.

Have you been able to create a custom resolution using SwitchResX to use your projector in OS X?

If you haven't tried yet, I would start with a low refresh rate, say 13 Hz, and then try small increments to get it all the way up to 24 Hz.

 

[Alucardx03]

Have you been able to create a custom resolution using SwitchResX to use your projector in OS X?

If you haven't tried yet, I would start with a low refresh rate, say 13 Hz, and then try small increments to get it all the way up to 24 Hz.

Well, unfortunately, my HDMI port completely died. It won't output anything. Not even 1080p.

I'm getting really sick of these rMBPs...Two lemons in a row. Thankfully I'm within my 14 day return window. I'll try one more and then I'm gonna give up.

 

[jdiamond]

But a 4K Mac isn't what he's after...

People underestimate the time it'll take to get to a 4K iMac. We're looking at 2-3 years at the very least.

He doesn't need a 4K Mac because he has a 4K projector acting like an external monitor. So this is just a software issue. Maybe Apple's push to make a television set will encourage internal changes to support 4K.

I just really hope Apple goes for 4,096 resolution instead of 3,840 -> the goal is not to have easy doubling of HD content (a 3% black border is fine), but to have perfect display of 4K Cinema content.

 

[Tom the MacUser]

After testing different settings on my Seiki 50" 4K TV, it seems that the driver is limiting HDMI pixel clock to 165 MHz in OS X, but not in Windows. 165 MHz was the limit of the old HDMI standard, so perhaps the driver was not updated to support HDMI 1.4 yet.

I am able to set a custom resolution of 3840x2160 @ 17 Hz in OS X using SwitchResX, and up to 31 Hz in Windows 8 using NVIDIA Control Panel.

 

[Rocketpaul]

After testing different settings on my Seiki 50" 4K TV, it seems that the driver is limiting HDMI pixel clock to 165 MHz in OS X, but not in Windows. 165 MHz was the limit of the old HDMI standard, so perhaps the driver was not updated to support HDMI 1.4 yet.

I am able to set a custom resolution of 3840x2160 @ 17 Hz in OS X using SwitchResX, and up to 31 Hz in Windows 8 using NVIDIA Control Panel.

how does it look on the tv?

 

[splob64]

After testing different settings on my Seiki 50" 4K TV, it seems that the driver is limiting HDMI pixel clock to 165 MHz in OS X, but not in Windows. 165 MHz was the limit of the old HDMI standard, so perhaps the driver was not updated to support HDMI 1.4 yet.

I am able to set a custom resolution of 3840x2160 @ 17 Hz in OS X using SwitchResX, and up to 31 Hz in Windows 8 using NVIDIA Control Panel.

This is great news, because I was thinking of purchasing that same TV model and hooking it up to my rMBP, so it's good to hear that the hardware supports it. Are there any other options for hooking it up that could possibly support higher frame rates? Perhaps with two HDMI cables at once, or VGA?

Also, how is the picture? Any regrets about buying the TV?

 

[Tom the MacUser]

This is great news, because I was thinking of purchasing that same TV model and hooking it up to my rMBP, so it's good to hear that the hardware supports it. Are there any other options for hooking it up that could possibly support higher frame rates? Perhaps with two HDMI cables at once, or VGA?

Also, how is the picture? Any regrets about buying the TV?

No regrets. 4K looks great on the TV. Picture is great from a 4K source - colors and blacks are fine.

However, I'm surprised that menus and Seiki logo that displays when you start at TV are so blurry. Definitely not 4K. They could have put in a bit more work for a much better first impression.

I don't know of any options for higher refresh rates at 4K, if there are any then they are not obvious.

I haven't tried 2160i60 yet, perhaps you could get 60Hz in interlaced mode.

I tried overclocking with a custom resolution in Windows, but only 31 Hz worked. 32 Hz showed a blurry image or message "Not support".

1080p looks ok, but this TV does not have a fancy upscaler. I'm thinking that the picture would be much better if your source could upscale to 4K on its own.

 

[Tom the MacUser]

I haven't tried 2160i60 yet, perhaps you could get 60Hz in interlaced mode.

Nope. Interlaced mode does not help achieve 60 Hz.

 

[Tom the MacUser]

No regrets. 4K looks great on the TV. Picture is great from a 4K source - colors and blacks are fine.

TV has a hidden menu that allows for color calibration - press Menu then 0000. After some calibration, colors and blacks are amazing. The picture is really good.

Someone reported that they could output 4K @ up to 27 Hz in Linux using StarTech DP2HDS DisplayPort to HDMI Active Video and Audio Adapter.

I bought the Mini-DisplayPort version of it and I will verify whether it works for 4K output in OS X @ 24 Hz, 25 Hz, and 30 Hz, and possibly more.

HDMI is currently limited to 165 MHz pixel clock in OS X by its drivers, although it can output 4K @ up to 31 Hz in Windows. Using this adapter might be one way of getting around the driver limitation for HDMI.

 

[malix]

What refresh rate could you get from HDMI on your 4K projector?

I was able to output 3840x2400 @ 17 Hz out of HDMI for my IBM T221 monitor using SwitchResX.

Tom, do you have a screen cap of those custom settigs in SwitchResX?
I have the Seiki 50" plugged to my Mac Mini through DP->HDMI and I'm trying for a better image than 1920X1080 at 60Hz...

 

[Tom the MacUser]

Tom, do you have a screen cap of those custom settigs in SwitchResX?
I have the Seiki 50" plugged to my Mac Mini through DP->HDMI and I'm trying for a better image than 1920X1080 at 60Hz...

Create a custom resolution - 3840, 2160, 17 Hz, choose Use simplified settings: CVT-RB, and that's it. As long as your pixel clock is at most 165 MHz, it should work.

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I bought the Mini-DisplayPort version of it and I will verify whether it works for 4K output in OS X @ 24 Hz, 25 Hz, and 30 Hz, and possibly more.

HDMI is currently limited to 165 MHz pixel clock in OS X by its drivers, although it can output 4K @ up to 31 Hz in Windows. Using this adapter might be one way of getting around the driver limitation for HDMI.

Drivers are limiting this adapter to 180 MHz pixel clock, and resolutions close to 180 MHz show artifacts on the screen. With this adapter, I can use 3840x2160 @ 20 Hz on my Seiki, but that's it. That's not a significant improvement compared to HDMI. It must be another driver limitation.

Of course, in Windows this adapter works fine up to 27 Hz or so.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

I don't understand why people insist that rMBP hardware can't handle 2880x1800 properly. That's roughly 5.2 Mpixels to draw.

My '11 17" handles it's native 1920x1200 resolution + an external 2560x1400. That's 6 Mpixels on a previous generation mobile graphic card (Radeon 6750M), and OS X is smooth as butter...

Probably Mac OS X 10.6.x.

Btw: +1.

 

[Quu]

I don't understand why people insist that rMBP hardware can't handle 2880x1800 properly. That's roughly 5.2 Mpixels to draw.

My '11 17" handles it's native 1920x1200 resolution + an external 2560x1400. That's 6 Mpixels on a previous generation mobile graphic card (Radeon 6750M), and OS X is smooth as butter...

I got you beat. I have a 2009 17" MacBook Pro also with a 1920x1200 display and I hook mine up to a 2560x1600 external display. And what do you know? Smooth as a hot knife through butter here too.

I can even play back 1080p video on it while hooked up like this on either monitor without dropped frames and that is with a 9600GT 512MB + Core 2 Duo 2.93GHz. 4 year old technology delivering 6.4 Million Pixels.

 

[Tom the MacUser]

Great news for anyone who wants to output 4K from a Mac.

I made a patch that removes the 165 MHz pixel clock limit from HDMI on 15" RMBP (possibly others too) and I can now use my Seiki at 3840x2160 @ 31Hz in Mac OS X.

I will be releasing it soon.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[NukeUser]

Seiki 4K on OSX

Tom- I can't wait to see your patch- I have been trying to figure out why
this Seiki was working in 3840x2160 in Windows 7 but not showing that resolution option in 10.8.3....

 

[Tom the MacUser]

Tom- I can't wait to see your patch- I have been trying to figure out why
this Seiki was working in 3840x2160 in Windows 7 but not showing that resolution option in 10.8.3....

My patch only fixes the artificial pixel clock limit. Without it, you can still use your Seiki at 3840x2160 @ 18 Hz.

To use 3840x2160 on your TV, use SwitchResX to create a custom resolution. If you enter 3840x2160, CVT-RB and 18 Hz, it will automatically calculate proper timings and it should work. After you do that, you can use Retina DisplayMenu 0.2 to set your monitor to 1920x1080 HiDPI.

 

[NukeUser]

Did you just mod a .plst file to overcome the speed cap? I am doing this on a Mac Pro with a GTX 680, and bought this Seiki to display at 24 or 30hz. It's kinda cool that this is so new- hat's off to you for figuring out how to fix it.
You are going to make a ton of people very happy with the patch!

 

[NukeUser]

Tom- No luck having the 3840x2160 settings @18hz using the method above- although in SwitchResX it does say in Custom Resolutions that 3840x2160@18hz is active. Will you be releasing the patch today?

 

[Tom the MacUser]

Tom- No luck having the 3840x2160 settings @18hz using the method above- although in SwitchResX it does say in Custom Resolutions that 3840x2160@18hz is active. Will you be releasing the patch today?

Image

It will be a couple more days before I release it. It's not a simple .plist change - I am changing machine code used by video card drivers.

Did you download Retina DisplayMenu 0.2 and attempt to use it to set TV resolution to 1920x1080 HiDPI? Your new resolution will not be listed in Apple's System Preferences.

 

[malix]

Create a custom resolution - 3840, 2160, 17 Hz, choose Use simplified settings: CVT-RB, and that's it. As long as your pixel clock is at most 165 MHz, it should work.

Thank you!! That's awesome... but unusable
Do you know if it does something in between?

Is 1920x1080 x 60hz the best 1080p achievable on the Mac?

 

[Tom the MacUser]

Thank you!! That's awesome... but unusable
Do you know if it does something in between?

Is 1920x1080 x 60hz the best 1080p achievable on the Mac?

If you are using 3840x2160 and everything is too small, use Retina DisplayMenu 0.2 to switch to 1920x1080 HiDPI instead.

You can increase the refresh rate until you get to 165 MHz pixel clock. You should be able to get at least 75 Hz without my patch.

With my patch, 1920x1080 @ 110 Hz seems to work fine from my 15" RMBP's HDMI port.

 

[NukeUser]

Tom- Good luck with finishing the patch, I am excited to see this Seiki in 4K on OSX.

 

[Tom the MacUser]

Do you have a Mac with an HDMI port and would like to help me test a patch that removes the 165 MHz pixel clock limit for HDMI in OS X?

With this patch, you can output 4K @ 24, 25, 30, and 31 Hz from OS X.

If so, PM me, and let me know:
1. What OS X version you are using
2. What video card you have
3. How comfortable you are using the command line