$600 for 4GB, 500GB HD Lenovo. Did I just waste my money buying a Mac Air?

[Poindexter333]

Constantly? Windows 7 is 2 years old, has 1 service pack. You made good points through most of your post then end it with complete BS.

In most of my comments I mentioned that I abandoned Windows a few years ago, that I have had very little exposure to W7, and that I've actually heard it's not that bad. NT wasn't bad either from what I've seen of it. YMMV.

I still have around 20 years worth of a terrible Windows taste in my mouth though, so...

 

[Poindexter333]

FYI- my MBA Rev A suffered TWO fatal hard disk crashes from impact while operating. Once it was pulled from a low table onto carpet (18" fall, pulled by the headset, not MagSafe, and not by me.) OEM Sammy 80GB drive was destroyed instantly. Second time the laptop was sitting on the carpet, sitting slightly opened, on the open side "base" formed opposite the hinge side of the wedge by a chair and somebody kicked it, it closed and fell over. Another destroyed drive- this time the OEM Sammy 120GB.

A major reason I went with an MBA with an SSD instead of simply spending $65 for another HDD.

 

[nebulos]

what I do care about having an SSD for, is the ability to not crash if I move the laptop around while it's running.

FYI- my MBA Rev A suffered TWO fatal hard disk crashes from impact while operating. Once it was pulled from a low table onto carpet (18" fall, pulled by the headset, not MagSafe, and not by me.) ... Second time ... somebody kicked it, it closed and fell over.

i get it, but these are obviously two very different statements.

 

[3dflyboy1]

They aren't so much trolls as people who have deep down regrets with their purchase. They certainly won't admit it here, but it is pretty obvious. Their sheer presents on these forums is proof of that. They seek validation that they really aren't missing much, that they made the right choice. We'd all be much happier if they stopped feeling guilty and went to the lenovo fan forum instead.

I'm perfectly happy and have no regrets about buying a lenovo.

It's a matter of taste. SSD vs. HDD, C2D vs. i5, win7 vs. OS X, etc. etc...people just go their own way, then others get irritated when they're curious about the other option(s).

This is a perfectly legitimate discussion. We just need to express our opinions in a non-derogatory way.

 

[2IS]

i get it, but these are obviously two very different statements.

Rev A MBA did not have an SSD.

 

[KPOM]

Rev A MBA did not have an SSD.

The $3000 model had a 64GB SSD. My $1800 Rev A did not.

 

[ntrigue]

Yes, there is difference, but I don't think it is that big. Most people would not put resolution as their priority.

The things that matter to most people are how fast, how much memory, and weight, 11" Air does have SSD but it's only 68GB(or 128GB), while Lenovo has 320GB. I'd definitely go with the 320GB, so I can at least store some music and movies, yes I know it is faster, but its size has no future value.

2 years ago, 100GB for a laptop was considered "big", now it's considered below average.

Take iphone for example, when it came out in 2007, you had 4GB, 8GB, and 16GB. Now, the minimum iphone 4 is 16GB.

By that Apple logic, the 11" Air you have will be out of production. So, the 11" Air is way below in competition with the Thinkpad in terms of price and future value.

I was trying to be patient with you. You clearly have ZERO experience with solid state because you went and compared it to a HDD.

 

[3dflyboy1]

Back on topic, I think that lenovos are splendid, sturdy little machines with *amazing* keyboards. Definitely not a waste of money. You just have to get over the boxy look, which I actually kinda like.

 

[ntrigue]

I went to Best Buy and compared a Lenovo Thinkpad Edge they were selling for $568 to the low-end MacBook Air about 12 feet away.

Now if memory serves me (over those strenuous 12 feet) I click on the Lenovo and wait for browser, folders and Control Panel to load. Overall though, I don't have a lot of criticisms of Windows 7 because I am used to its quirks from work. The most noticeable thumbs down was that the weight was identical to my three year old MacBook Pro which by the way matches the Geekbench of modern day i3/2.1. The height when set on a desk is between 3x and 4x that of the Air due to these atrocious feet. The fan was visible on the sides and I had about three more obnoxious ports I wouldn't use.

Long story short, here I am looking you in the eye and saying 'meh - I'll keep the Air at twice the price.' Beyond that, also while looking you in the eye, I would strongly recommend you keep that Air for at least two years and savor the resale price as the Lenovo would be donation material at that time.

Ps Really enjoying this spelling autocorrect built into OS X.

 

[nebulos]

heh. All right...point made.

;-)

EDIT: Back on topic, I think that lenovos are splendid, sturdy little machines with *amazing* keyboards. Definitely not a waste of money. You just have to get over the boxy look, which I actually kinda like.

as i've said elsewhere, i like thinkpads. my current laptop is a thinkpad X61 tablet. i'm torn right now deciding between a new MBA or the thinkpad X220 tablet. the X61 lacks a trackpad, which is unbearable, and the two would have different applications, so i may still go MBA as an addition instead of a replacement. in any case, both are great machines. (both have their drawbacks too.)

 

[3dflyboy1]

as i've said elsewhere, i like thinkpads. my current laptop is a thinkpad X61 tablet. i'm torn right now deciding between a new MBA or the thinkpad X220 tablet. the X61 lacks a trackpad, which is unbearable, and the two would have different applications, so i may still go MBA as an addition instead of a replacement. in any case, both are great machines. (both have their drawbacks too.)

If only we could have everything in one little computer...stunning LCD, perfect keyboard, trackpad, HD webcam, USB 3.0, (insert very long list of other aspects). As far as the trackpad, I've come to love the little red trackpoint, and hardly use the pad anymore. An acquired taste, I guess...?

But the MBA + x61 tab would be a very good combo IMO, unless you don't want to have two machines to choose from, which could be an inconvenience or a benefit.

 

[nebulos]

If only we could have everything in one little computer...stunning LCD, perfect keyboard, trackpad, HD webcam, USB 3.0, (insert very long list of other aspects). As far as the trackpad, I've come to love the little red trackpoint, and hardly use the pad anymore. An acquired taste, I guess...?

But the MBA + x61 tab would be a very good combo IMO, unless you don't want to have two machines to choose from, which could be an inconvenience or a benefit.

i don't get along with the trackpoint, which is to say, i hate it, though i know it has many fans.

indeed, everything is a compromise, unfortunately. even the X220, at 1366x768, has a worse resolution than my old X61, with custom 1400x1050; both are 12" displays.

i want a computer for music and other creative work, and while the tablet is nice for drawing, the lack of a trackpad is really hard on me, and its also an older ULV C2D CPU, so not super music friendly. though i could get off it, i do use garageband and also have a nice Mac-only external 'soundcard', which currently i use on a mini.

having one vs two computers is, again, a compromise. its nice in some ways, annoying in others. so far i am leaning heavily towards the MBA, though. it's a great machine for music (i would go with a high res 13 MBP if it existed), and the X61 will take the abuse of going to school everyday.

 

[kulimer]

This is the wrong place to ask a question like that. There is a unique demographic of people that use Macs but speak like their authorities on windows for the purpose of trashing them. Usually based on the intent of drawing you in to the Apple Eco system.

I've used both Macs & ThinkPads by Lenovo concurrently for years. They are both excellent systems. They each have their strengths. It's all a matter of personal preference. Don' let the low price of Lenovo fool you, they are high quality machines.

That said what makes Apple unique is their superior marketing that convinces people they must be superior due to the high price. When in fact that's one of the miracles is Apples ability to command high prices and huge profit margins. Working with 30% or higher margins than Lenovo & others at 7%.

I believe this explains the high mark up of Apple product in general.

 

[kulimer]

;-)
as i've said elsewhere, i like thinkpads. my current laptop is a thinkpad X61 tablet. i'm torn right now deciding between a new MBA or the thinkpad X220 tablet.

Did you sell your Thinkpad or decided to keep it? Share your story.

 

[KPOM]

I believe this explains the high mark up of Apple product in general.

That's true, but in the case of the MacBook Air, there were several articles that pointed out that other manufacturers were struggling to get Ultrabooks under the $1000 price point that Intel desired. The ASUS and Acer Ultrabooks in particular were priced in the $1000-$1600 range when equipped similarly to the MacBook Air. Thus, it appears Apple is able to achieve those margins at the Air range primarily through a cost advantage over its competition, rather than a pricing advantage.

Given that the Lenovo X220 up until recently was priced considerably higher than the MacBook Air (look at the pre-"sale" prices), it seems like Lenovo is either selling out old machines in preparation for a revised model, or found that it could not sustain those types of margins and is selling them near cost. In either case, I would not be expecting a deluge of products comparable to the MacBook Air at significantly lower prices. There may be a deluge (at least Intel hopes so), but it will be at generally comparable prices at first.

 

[nebulos]

EDITED (less acidic, more to the point):

In response to the above posts, and the several like them in this thread, concerning the very old and increasingly obsolete notion of Apple tax:

Samsung made a Macbook Air competitor, the Series 9. how much does it cost?

Lots of people have made iPad competitors. how much do they cost?

KPOM touched on this as well.

your biases need updating.

... why didn't i sell my X61T? why would i? there's nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't fulfill all my needs. as i mentioned, the X220T has a lower screen res, otherwise i would consider replacing the X61 with it. then again, that would mean not getting an Air, which i want for different uses/reasons.

 

[KnightWRX]

Did I just waste my money buying a Mac Air?

Yes. You did. Obviously, you don't value the weight and size of the MacBook Air, nor the SSD in it. Thus you should not have purchased it as it wasn't the segment of laptop you were shopping for.

 

[kulimer]

... why didn't i sell my X61T? why would i? there's nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't fulfill all my needs. as i mentioned, the X220T has a lower screen res, otherwise i would consider replacing the X61 with it. then again, that would mean not getting an Air, which i want for different uses/reasons.

What uses and reasons? Cosmetics, the looks?

Compatibility problems: You can't run math/engineering programs like SAS, come'on now!

Overheated fan, battery problems. See here
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1233624/
here
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1233524/
and here
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1232784/
That's enough links to keep in mind that the $1300+ Mac Air is not problem free. So, on the user experience's front, there is no absolute advantage of Air over Thinkpad. Perhaps, thinner and lighter, is where most of the bragging rights will be.

Here's my anecdote
A high demand for parallel and dual boot, users are still very attached to Windows system, despite how you trash it. It's like your gf vs wife.

Having a Mac Air is like having that HS cheerleader gf you dreamed about, but it annoys me when you bash on how bad your wife is now(Windows in this case), and wanting to file a divorce so badly.

Now that you are with your gf, you misses how good your wife is.

Now that I've made my point, for the sake further discussion, I classified this into software and hardware. Feel free to dive in either one for everyone to see.

 

[Poindexter333]

What I find quite interesting are those sad people that can only bash Apple products by bringing up the sheep factor.

Hundreds of millions of products sold to million upon millions of customers. It's created the most valuable corporation on earth with some of the brightest among its proponents. Are all of these consumers brainwashed merely by some mysterious force that compels them to bring out the plastic, and overspend on products whose value is mostly created out of thin air by marketing departments, witty phrases and shiny materials?

Can we all not establish value in our products, on our own, after decades of use and exposure to a product and its characteristics, performance and quality? Or are we simply being led by the nose simply to consume by a marketing department?

But of course those making these claims can always magically see through this "reality distortion field" and make the "right" choice because you're so very special and by inference better than us somehow for your mystical powers of perception?

2-4-8. Figure that out brainiacs. If I wrote it I would surely get bounced.

 

[Goratrix]

Can we all not establish value in our products, on our own, after decades of use and exposure to a product and its characteristics, performance and quality? Or are we simply being led by the nose simply to consume by a marketing department?

You should REALLY watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPzGUsYyKM

(yes, it's 4 hours long, but every minute of it is worth it)

 

[Poindexter333]

You should REALLY watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPzGUsYyKM

(yes, it's 4 hours long, but every minute of it is worth it)

Thanks for this link. I will certainly watch it as I try to be fully informed on as many areas of thought as possible. However I prefer the existential philosophy of the Adlerian Viktor Frankl, versus that of Nietzsche and Freud. His construct was considered to be the third Viennese school of psychotherapy. Read about Frankl's life.

Frankl postulated the fulfillment of self by the will for meaning, versus will to sex (Freud- duh ) or Nietzsche's will to power. Perhaps this is what comes out of a psychiatrist/neurologist surviving 3 years in the concentration camps- including Auschwitz.

Downloading this for later viewing.

It will be interesting to see how (or if) psychotherapy can influence me on which trackpad I prefer under my fingers, or which OS design I want to use, to whether I prefer solid aluminum or polycarbonate casing materials. Terrifying if true.

 

[Abazigal]

Last I checked, Windows was still the majority market share holder in the OS market.

Which is why I don't understand how MAC users can ever be classified as sheep. If anything, shouldn't windows users be sheep, and MAC users be the daring few bold enough to challenge the status quo?

How does it make sense that I should show I am not a conformist by opting to do the same thing that 90% of computer users around the world are doing?

 

[Poindexter333]

Last I checked, Windows was still the majority market share holder in the OS market.

Which is why I don't understand how MAC users can ever be classified as sheep. If anything, shouldn't windows users be sheep, and MAC users be the daring few bold enough to challenge the status quo?

How does it make sense that I should show I am not a conformist by opting to do the same thing that 90% of computer users around the world are doing?

Wow. Thanks for this. In all of my exposure to this topic, I've actually never seen this expressed so well. I shall quote you, often.

 

[Abazigal]

Wow. Thanks for this. In all of my exposure to this topic, I've actually never seen this expressed so well. I shall quote you, often.

Please, go easy on the compliments. I blush easily...

I think that people still need to view the entire discussion in context. This is an apple forum, so the majority of people who frequent this site and post here are naturally those who use apple products. If one didn't know better and forgets that this place represents just one minuscule portion of the internet, it may be easy to get the impression that apple products somehow dominate the market, given how the majority of threads revolves around what apple product to buy or whether to upgrade or what not (which is precisely the point of these forums).

However, one needs to bear in mind that for most part, Apple is still a minority player (albeit a fairly successful one) in the computer market. Consider their more popular offerings - the ipad and iphone. You would think that every other guy in the world has one, but the iphone penetration rate in my country is estimated at just 10%, meaning that for every 1 person using an iphone, there are 9 others using some other brand (or not owning a handphone at all). Same for the ipad. It is undeniably popular here (for an IT gadget at any rate), but far from being a "must-have". I certainly don't see that many people toting ipads around.

 

[Poindexter333]

Please, go easy on the compliments. I blush easily...

I think that people still need to view the entire discussion in context. This is an apple forum, so the majority of people who frequent this site and post here are naturally those who use apple products. If one didn't know better and forgets that this place represents just one minuscule portion of the internet, it may be easy to get the impression that apple products somehow dominate the market, given how the majority of threads revolves around what apple product to buy or whether to upgrade or what not (which is precisely the point of these forums).

However, one needs to bear in mind that for most part, Apple is still a minority player (albeit a fairly successful one) in the computer market. Consider their more popular offerings - the ipad and iphone. You would think that every other guy in the world has one, but the iphone penetration rate in my country is estimated at just 10%, meaning that for every 1 person using an iphone, there are 9 others using some other brand (or not owning a handphone at all). Same for the ipad. It is undeniably popular here (for an IT gadget at any rate), but far from being a "must-have". I certainly don't see that many people toting ipads around.

All true. However, it does bear mentioning that- I believe but have not fully run the total world numbers- Apple computers have more of their product market share than Mercedes Benz (the largest at 1.3%), BMW, Bentley, Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, Jaguar, Audi and Rolls Royce combined have of the auto market. (Source- Wall Street Journal 9/01/11)

Means something, not certain what yet.

P.S. My sheep comment was primarily aimed at those trolls who seem to be lurking to "pounce" on many here who express their preference for Apple products because of, indeed "in spite of" merely some specification mismatches. These products can not be judged solely on their screen pitch or chip density. Or price for that matter. They comprise much more than their numerical measurements. Some things are not easily quantified or put into neat statistical categories.