Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
$600 for 4GB, 500GB HD Lenovo. Did I just waste my money buying a Mac Air?
- Thread starter kulimer
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
Thanks for this link. I will certainly watch it as I try to be fully informed on as many areas of thought as possible. However I prefer the existential philosophy of the Adlerian Viktor Frankl, versus that of Nietzsche and Freud. His construct was considered to be the third Viennese school of psychotherapy. Read about Frankl's life.
Frankl postulated the fulfillment of self by the will for meaning, versus will to sex (Freud- duh) or Nietzsche's will to power. Perhaps this is what comes out of a psychiatrist/neurologist surviving 3 years in the concentration camps- including Auschwitz.
Downloading this for later viewing.
It will be interesting to see how (or if) psychotherapy can influence me on which trackpad I prefer under my fingers, or which OS design I want to use, to whether I prefer solid aluminum or polycarbonate casing materials.
It's only very loosely about Freud, mainly about his nephew, this guy. The main focus is on how the consumer-oriented society came into being, how it works, and how it gradually adjusted to various social phenomena during the 20th century.
Thinner and lighter are not about bragging rights, they are about functionality. Thinner and lighter is more functional to people who want to carry around the laptop with other already heavy items, lowering the overall weight and girth that is carried.
Why do you dismiss a functional advantage as a purely aesthetic one ? Maybe because in your personal experience this has low or no value. But realise that for some of us, it has great value, value enough to mean we will shop for these ultra-portables rather than the bulkier, cheaper cousins.
So again : If the MacBook Air is not for you, why do you feel you need to spend so much energy trying to convince us of its compromises ? Why do you feel we don't know about them and haven't accepted them ?
For me, there was no other laptops like it, priced cheaper. I bought it. It was great value, had the best specs for the best price in what I was shopping for : the lightest and smallest laptop.
Exactly. I look forward to their market entry; more competition is better for the consumer as it keeps the manufacturers pushing forward delivering more value for less money.
That's news to me. Praytell what about Mac is Linux based ?
And 2nd, why do you believe Linux or Mac can't run math/engineering software ? Maybe it can't run your particular package, but there are plenty of other packages out there.
Last edited by a moderator:
I wouldn't say they are overpriced they could be cheaper I just think the market has been fixed now and it's going to take a company with some smart initiative to bring it down where it should be
----------
Agree I think this gen will be a good one to buy into that way in a refresh in 2 years time performance upgrades will be worthwhile and based upon a true year long competition even though the 2012 macs will be running the new intel
It will be the next gen that apple really try and kill the competition
----------
Agree I think this gen will be a good one to buy into that way in a refresh in 2 years time performance upgrades will be worthwhile and based upon a true year long competition even though the 2012 macs will be running the new intel
It will be the next gen that apple really try and kill the competition
I'm not so sure Apple really has this as a primary motivation. Clearly they want to increase revenue, market share, and profitability -- but I doubt they'll try to compete in the low-cost computer niche.
Their strategy/focus seems to be leadership in "design" differentiation with cost a secondary consideration. They seem to try to stay away from commoditized products except in so far as essentially defining a category.
There was an interesting article from The Economist back in June talking about IBM turning 100 years old and what might have contributed to their longevity as a company. Within the article was this quote (emphasis mine):
I doubt we'll ever see Apple trying to compete in the "put out a computer for the lowest possible cost" arena. They'll find some way to pretty it up or embed some design value to create differentiation on some aspect other than cost.
Point being that if all someone cares about is the price and puts no value on design (meaning shape, size, weight, usability, etc), they aren't the person Apple is marketing their products towards. The same people also probably fail to understand why anyone would buy a luxury Mercedes or Audi or BMW or similar when an eight year old Honda Civic will get you around town just fine for a lot less money.
Last edited:
Follow up, I ran across one. New Sony Vaio Z. Build to Order page here. Review at AnandTech here.
Weight is 2.5lb, thickness 0.66". i5-2410M CPU, 1600x900 13.1" screen, 4GB RAM, 256GB SSD runs $2270, but includes the "Power Media Dock" for the extra $670 over the MBA 13/256.
Looks like a sweet machine, but clearly Sony isn't targeting the low-cost consumer either.
Also saw the Samsung 9. i5-2537M 1.4GHz, 128GB SSD, 13.3" 1366x768 screen is $1600 at CDW. TigerDirect shows it cheaper at $1300
Last edited:
It's more than just cosmetics. There's a reason there aren't hordes of ultraportables out there at prices that significantly undercut the Air's. It takes a lot of engineering to make something that small work. It isn't just putting together a bunch of parts and cramming it into a small case. Dell, Lenovo, Sony, and Samsung, Toshiba among others, have tried, and Acer and Asus are, as well. There is always a price premium for ultraportables, no matter who the manufacturer is, and it isn't just style.
The lowest price 64GB SSD I see is $95.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...tion=ssd 64gb&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20
Comparing some bargain basement clearance price on Newegg isn't a fair comparison, anyway. SSDs are pricey, as NAND supplies are tight. Prices have held fairly steady at around $1.5-$2/GB (larger form factor drives are cheaper, smaller form factors are more expensive). Also, the SSDs in the Airs and the new ultrabooks are the blade style. They aren't your typical 2.5" or even 1.8" devices (again, engineering isn't free).
Plus, we already pointed out that the "$600 Lenovo" really started out at $700, was twice as thick and over 1lb heavier than the 13" Air. Once we found a model roughly comparable (the X220), the starting price jumped up even more. When we added the SSD (which Lenovo wants $280 for) and Bluetooth, the price differential falls below $200. Lenovo evidently thinks a 128GB SSD is worth $280. Are they ripping people off?
The Vaio Z is even more expensive than the MacBook Air. I guess Sony is really trying to waste people's money.
The true comparison is between the included software on a Mac and Windows Live from Microsoft. By and large, the Apple products are better. Heck, a Mac can connect to a Microsoft Exchange server out of the box using Mail. Most Windows PCs can't (you need the business version of Office to do that).
The reason many people want to install Windows on Mac is that many of us switched from Windows PCs and have lots of old software or files that we don't want to lose right away. Sure there are some market segments for where there is not an OS X alternative, but as Apple's market share increases, so does the availability of Apple software.
Last edited:
Point being that if all someone cares about is the price and puts no value on design (meaning shape, size, weight, usability, etc), they aren't the person Apple is marketing their products towards. The same people also probably fail to understand why anyone would buy a luxury Mercedes or Audi or BMW or similar when an eight year old Honda Civic will get you around town just fine for a lot less money.
As for cars
Mercedes and BMW have many little problems after 1st 5 years, while Honda and Civic lasts forever. Audi just have no resale value, look at used Audi on craigslist.
Back to computers with car
Mercedes and BMW are expensive, not only in design(like how MBA is designed), but also give you more head room and leg room. In MBA, you don't get that room, namely 300GB, I don't think any PC laptop has under 100GB storage space, 200GB to 300GB is the most common I've seen. So, you didn't get a good deal.
Last edited:
instead of searching for anything anti-Apple, then running back here shouting about it, why not do something more useful with your time? like eating a bag of dirt.
you've never played music in your life. you don't know anything about music software. you've never used garageband. you don't understand what it is, it's strengths, or it's weaknesses. you simply found one limitation and then copied and pasted it into the thread. tell me, what is midi? (yes, go look it up. maybe that will keep you busy for a while.) a lot of mac users aren't musicians. and not all who are want to use garageband. all this proves is that your brain needs to hit the gym, desperately.
you talk about being a mindless sheep about a product?
It also takes a lot of compromising and taking stuff out, which most Windows customers would simply not accept. Things like missing importatnt ports, keyboard used for air intake (sensitive to slightest water damage), built-in battery, non-upgradable RAM, hardy upgradable SSD, fragile screen cover, missing card reader (11"), etc...
say at $2/GB, you buy 68GB, that costs you $132 at most. Hypothetically speaking, I add 68GB to my 300GB HDD, and still cheaper the Air, I will let you take an equivalent laptop of the Air in Thinkpad.
As for Vaio Z, you have
The hardware
13.1" HD antiglare
Resolution: 1600x900
Intel® Core™ i7-2620M
256GB SSD
6GB RAM
2.57lbs (This can be counted as part of the cosmetics department)
battery: Up to 14 hours
The software (ALL FREE)
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional
Microsoft® Office
Adobe® Creative Software : Adobe Acrobat® Standard 9.0
Plus, you get to engrave your name on it, just like the ipod.
I see everything that is better than the Air, the cost is a little higher, but it is reasonable. This is called an absolute advantage, meaning everything is as good as, or better.
As between the Air and Thinkpad (I am not referring to my very first post), is called an relative advantage, meaning some things are better, while others are not.
Last edited:
So the people who purchased the Lenovo or Sony Vaio Z with the 128GB SSD also didn't get a good deal?
There isn't much storage space in a BMW Z4, or Acura TSX. Acuras are as reliable as Hondas (since they ARE Hondas).
There are plenty of PC Ultrabooks coming with less than 100GB. How else do you think they will get below the $1000 price point?
Even with 2 OSes running, I managed with a 128GB SSD for over 2 years. I still could today if I wanted to. Having 200GB free space does nothing for me, so why not get the SSD?
----------
But the why does Lenovo charge $280 for the 128GB SSD? There is no "hypothetical" there. You can't add a 64GB SSD to the 320GH HDD on the Lenovo. I could hypothetically add a 2TB external drive to the MacBook Air and still be less than the Vaio Z. Does that make it "better"?
No surprise that the cheapest Vaio Z costs more than the most expensive MacBook Air, then. It isn't an absolute advantage, after all. If it were the same price or less, then it would be.
Your points are quickly crumbling. In order to get something (Vaio Z) with an absolute advantage over the Air, you need to spend more money. How does that make the Air overpriced?
Again, how does that show that the Air is overpriced? Different people will value different things.
Good man, let me put it bluntly:
You are a troll if you come to a Mac forum and hype Windows 7.
You are quite uneducated if you do not know the difference between a HDD and an SSD.
I do see what you're coming to: you can get a cheaper PC with similar processing power to the Air. Fair enough.
You are a troll if you come to a Mac forum and hype Windows 7.
You are quite uneducated if you do not know the difference between a HDD and an SSD.
I do see what you're coming to: you can get a cheaper PC with similar processing power to the Air. Fair enough.
But I get "genuine" OS X Lion - Tie.
"Microsoft® Office Starter with reduced-functionality versions of Word and Excel®6"
It sounds like typical "garbageware" to me (an attempt to sell me Office)
That is nice, but remember that OS X has the native ability to create PDF files.
What function does this add?
The Vaio Z starts at $1999.99, which is $301 more than the most expensive MacBook Air. And that's with a 2.3GHz Core i5 (comparable to the one in the 13" Pro) 4GB of RAM and a 128GB SSD.
Why is a $300 price differential "reasonable" for the Vaio Z, but a $180 price differential between the MacBook Air and Lenovo X220 (as close as possible to comparably equipped) "unreasonable"?
Last edited:
your posts are skull vomit.
i went to sony.com.
the Vaio Z starts at $1970.
configured with the i7, 256GB SSD, and 6GB RAM, its $2500.
Office is not free. i saw no mention of Adobe.
"up to 14 hours" battery life is with the extra battery slice, which is another $100.
lightweight is a feature, but not a cosmetic feature, which goes for the Air as well.
why are you wasting everyone's time?
either get with it and post something of value or shut up already.
Stop bumping your own thread. The advantages are plain enough for everyone to see. I suggest you go and visit anandtech.com for a good overview of the Air and what it offers.
It has Thunderbolt, for starters. The display is better, too (just read the AnandTech review).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4528/the-2011-macbook-air-11-13inch-review/7
Plus, size isn't just "cosmetic." I'm sure we could get even cheaper and faster than the Lenovo if we were willing to settle for a 5 or 6lb notebook.
We've demonstrated over and over again that the MacBook Air is comparably priced to comparable notebooks (e.g. Samsung Series 9, upcoming Asus UX31). We have also shown that the Lenovo is also priced closely. All you have been doing is dismissing every advantage as "cosmetic" or "useless," and then point to an even more expensive Sony as evidence that the Air doesn't have any advantages.
Relative advantages are advantages, too. Sure, I can get a more powerful system with Sony, but I need to spend $2300 if I want 256GB of SSD and roughly the same processing power as I have with my $1650 11" i7. I don't need the Power Media Dock or other advantages, so I chose the system with relative advantage to me. If the Lenovo has the relative advantage to you, go get it and stop complaining about the Air.
Agree.
The OP's title to his original post would more accurately be stated as, "You idiot Mac lovers wasted your money on the MBA"
And a lot of Mac users, as well. That's why they make the MacBook Pro. I do think the MacBook Pro line is showing its age, though. If this thread were about how the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro lines are priced considerably higher than similar Windows notebooks, there would be a lot more substance to it.
However, Intel apparently thinks that 40% of the notebook market will want devices like the Air by the end of next year, which is why they started the Ultrabook project.
When I said size and cosmetics because they are related to looks, so I group them together into the cosmetics department.
I did see the $1999 as you mentioned, which is $300 more than the top of the Air, the price is fair enough, since practically everything got upgraded, even including the small stuff like antiglare screen (now that even surpasses the Air).
Having this "Adobe® Creative Software does lure me into the laptop, because you literally get nothing when you purchase the Air.
So, how does all this relate to my topic? Air needs to reduce its price, again, it is a nice laptop, but overpriced. see my post #179
Plus the $100 student gift card. I heard a lot people who has it don't care about it and never used it. Does that say something about the software end? At least that is my impression to any lay person out there.
If you want speed the processor and the ram, Sony will give you what you need. Now that's the real deal, but it is above my budget. Then, again, you are actually paying more for something definitively better.
So, is the Air just a hype? Some of you asked, why are you asking this in here? You know this is not the right place to ask, then again, if I ask it elsewhere, I will get the answer I want, and nobody will stubbornly debate me.
Last edited:
Edit:
No....You need to up your comprehension or just get a Windows laptop.
Just get your thinkpad and get out of here already.
No....You need to up your comprehension or just get a Windows laptop.
Just get your thinkpad and get out of here already.
Last edited:
This is incorrect. Basic wordprocessing, calendar, email, contact management, and PDF creation/annotation capabilities are all included out of the box. TextEdit / iCal / Mail / AddressBook / Preview. OpenOffice is available for Mac or PC for free also.
Keynote, Pages, and Numbers are all $20 each if you need presentation, full word-processing, and spreadsheet capability and OpenOffice doesn't do it for you. Or buy the full MS Office. As a student (based on an earlier post of yours regarding grad school, if I remember correctly) it should be cheap; I've seen Academic Office for Mac 2011 for $57.
Do you go out and re-buy all your Windows applications when you upgrade to a new Windows computer? Or do you do like most people and move your licenses over to the new system?
Only someone new to the Mac platform is likely to have a bunch of applications they need to buy. Those who are moving from a previous Mac likely doesn't need much of anything since so much functionality is built into the system.
Last edited:
- Status