haha.
He took a specific lenovo model and compared it to a specific apple product. For some people, PC >
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$600 for 4GB, 500GB HD Lenovo. Did I just waste my money buying a Mac Air?
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haha.
He took a specific lenovo model and compared it to a specific apple product. For some people, PC >
The thing is, it is an undeniable fact that I am thoroughly enjoying my imac compared to my previous windows PC or the laptop my school issues me for work-related purposes.
It is not an opinion that I am saving time and hassle by not having to defrag my HD or have AVG running in the background every single moment and slowing down my comp. It's a fact.
Intangible doesn't mean inexistent or inconsequential.
You are right in that specs matter, but I hardly think they should be the sole determining factor in deciding which one to buy, because how much ram or space a laptop has doesn't always tell the full story. For instance, the ipad2 is able to do similar tasks compared to rival tablets even though the former is listed as having inferior specs, simply because its programs are better optimised to take full advantage of the OS. This is a feature, not a bug.
*Exhales*
The thing is, I don't even know why I am responding to this even. Just let him buy his lenovo laptop, I continue buying my own apple products, we are all happy consumers, right?
I almost completely agree. Defrag is automatically scheduled in Win 7, and completely unnecessary if you have a SSD. Anti-Virus software have not made an appreciable difference in PC performance in years. I can guarantee you if you sit in front of two identical, modern day PC's one with AV and one without, you would not be able to tell me one is faster than the other.
haha.
For some people, PC >
And said it costs 600 bucks, when it was really 1300...
I can't speak for the "fanboys" but I have taken your side by side comparisons and have equaled the specs as closely as possible (which isn't always possible), and have pointed out that the price gap virtually disappears. When I've pointed out that the 11" MacBook Air with the i7 costs less than the X220 with the same size SSD, you've come back and said the X220 is better because the screen is bigger (but has the same resolution). When it's been pointed out that the 13" Air has a higher resolution you've come back and said it isn't a fair comparison because the X220 screen is smaller.
You are right. It is impossible to come forward with a side by side comparison when you will straw man every one of them where the specs don't match identically. If the MacBook Air is overpriced, we'll find out soon enough when the Ultrabooks (which will have much more closely matched specifications than the X220) come to market en masse. If Acer, ASUS, Toshiba, and yes Lenovo are all able to undercut the MacBook Air with virtually identically equipped your case will be stronger.
What is it you are looking for? Do you want everyone to agree with you that buying the MacBook Air was a mistake and that you should have bought the Lenovo instead? OK, you win. You made a big mistake buying the MacBook Air, and it's a ripoff. You should resent Apple and warn everyone not to buy one. We should all buy HDD-equipped Lenovo X220s (and resist the urge to be fooled into spending the $280 for the upgrade) since it's obvious a 320GB HDD is superior to a 128GB SSD and costs $280 less. Do you feel better now?
In your opening statement you say, "First... you don't know me so don't judge people you don't know."
In your third paragraph you say, "Let's face it... most people buy Apple products to be trendy... "
pot...kettle?
Form factor the Thinkpad is garbage compared to the Air.
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This is the wrong place to ask a question like that. There is a unique demographic of people that use Macs but speak like their authorities on windows for the purpose of trashing them. Usually based on the intent of drawing you in to the Apple Eco system.
I've used both Macs & ThinkPads by Lenovo concurrently for years. They are both excellent systems. They each have their strengths. It's all a matter of personal preference. Don' let the low price of Lenovo fool you, they are high quality machines.
That said what makes Apple unique is their superior marketing that convinces people they must be superior due to the high price. When in fact that's one of the miracles is Apples ability to command high prices and huge profit margins. Working with 30% or higher margins than Lenovo & others at 7%.
Identically configured models reveal Apples handsome markup. It's all in what you feel comfortable with.
I've used both Macs & ThinkPads by Lenovo concurrently for years. They are both excellent systems. They each have their strengths. It's all a matter of personal preference. Don' let the low price of Lenovo fool you, they are high quality machines.
That said what makes Apple unique is their superior marketing that convinces people they must be superior due to the high price. When in fact that's one of the miracles is Apples ability to command high prices and huge profit margins. Working with 30% or higher margins than Lenovo & others at 7%.
Identically configured models reveal Apples handsome markup. It's all in what you feel comfortable with.
I had the Lenovo E420 before switching to the 2011 13 MacAir base unit and the Lenovo is not even close for a comparison.
How does generalizing a majority of people fall in the same category as judging an individual? Not pot nor kettle... Get a little less defensive about your device man...
For the original poster the MBA is a bad choice for him. Plain and simple... He believes this and I believe this... Its just not the right device for him plain and simple and therefore a terrible deal... All you defensive twits here immediately want to jump down the guy's throat because a MBA is best for YOU not him.
He won't be happy with the MBA because the specs are not what he wants or needs... Why is that so difficult for you to understand?
This is a really convincing comparison. To any lay person arrives in this forum, he/she will be able to see what's good or bad, clearly Thinkpad wins in every aspect.
If you are the Mac loving/Windows hating Extremist, have you addressed any of these issues? nope.
In above list, the only tipping point I see might be the 250HDD vs 68GB SSD, it's pushing it. 68GB is just way too small to save anything, you'd be busy deleting old files in order to save again. That feeling sucks. You will be forced to buy an external hard drive.
If you have something to say, bring it on baby!
If it is so good, tell everyone and convince it with your point and tell why you made a good decision! I mean did you?
(you are going to tell me it's good user experience, I love it, it's so light, again and again.)
(@fanboys: You have not yet come forward with a single side to side comparison objectively, because it does not in your favor.)
It's so obvious to me now that you never bought the MacBook Air.
But as we pointed out, once you add Bluetooth and an SSD, the 220 jumps up to about $1020. While it is still less than $1199 for the 11" Air, it is a much closer comparison.
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It isn't. What he's doing here is claiming that the Air is a waste of money, or that the Lenovo is objectively better, which aren't valid statements. Maybe it's a waste of money for him, but that's a decision only he can make, and only for himself. He doesn't need to justify it to us, or convince us that the Air is inferior. What's the point? It's like me going onto a car forum and claiming that a Honda Accord is a waste of money since I can get a Dodge Caravan for the same price and it holds more passengers and cargo.
Yes, though more so in the T and X series "business class" systems. I've been a long time user of T-series.
Lenovo is bad for having a very attractive base configuration -- but once you configure it to a decent middle of the road system the price goes up a bunch.
True if the buyer puts no value on things like size and weight and thickness. Not so much when you factor those features into the comparison. Please provide examples supporting your generalization (though I'll give you the MBP17...
but be sure to match the thickness and weight specs too. Maybe not important to you, but they are important to many.Look at the various configurations listed here in this thread; once you match the SSD the MBA configs aren't priced that far away from systems twice as thick.
I did the comparison myself when the new MBAs came out, and ended up with a Lenovo X220. About the same weight, about the same battery life, significantly faster i7 processor, 8GB RAM, and USB 3.0. Drawbacks to the X220 are slightly smaller and lower ppi screen, only 160GB SSD, and thicker case (but not much).
Configured that way, I spent about $250 less than the MBA. If the MBA had 8GB RAM, I'd have paid the difference. The MBA is worth $250 more for the better screen and overall build quality. But 4GB RAM for Lion plus 2-3 Windows VMs just wouldn't cut it, and I do 2-3 simultaneous VMWare machines on my laptop at a time frequently.
As others mentioned, you are comparing Apples to granola. Similarly spec'd Lenovo will be pretty close to the MBA price.
Configured that way, I spent about $250 less than the MBA. If the MBA had 8GB RAM, I'd have paid the difference. The MBA is worth $250 more for the better screen and overall build quality. But 4GB RAM for Lion plus 2-3 Windows VMs just wouldn't cut it, and I do 2-3 simultaneous VMWare machines on my laptop at a time frequently.
As others mentioned, you are comparing Apples to granola. Similarly spec'd Lenovo will be pretty close to the MBA price.
First, that link is $699.
Second, when the comparisons really started, posters linked to the $1300 version of the lenovo to say "see, the computer specs are the same".
true...adding the SSD and bluetooth does bump it up to $1015.
But wouldn't most people buy it without the SSD? I wouldn't think everyone is that obsessed with read/write speed.
It's just a matter of waiting a few more seconds for programs to launch and an extra 20 seconds for booting. (MBA boots in ~12, my PC boots in ~35 with a 7200rpm HDD)-------------------------------------------------------------
First, that $699 laptop has an Intel core i5, 4GB RAM, and a 500GB HDD. Disregarding the SSD, that's identical to a mac air.
Second, why does it matter if people originally linked to a $1300 lenovo?
THIS $699 lenovo has identical specs. Even when adding an SSD, (which isn't really important to most users) the price goes to about $1020, as KPOM noted. That's still $200 less than the 11" 4/128 mac air. As I said in the first part of this post, lacking an SSD only inconveniences you for about 20 seconds. It's hard to imagine people are that impatient or so obsessed with speed.
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true...adding the SSD and bluetooth does bump it up to $1015.
But wouldn't most people buy it without the SSD? I wouldn't think everyone is that obsessed with read/write speed.
Maybe. But that doesn't make the lenovo a better deal. It means you settled for something with less. And that's fine! But don't come here and say the "macbook air is a waste of money". I can get a ford, does that make BMWs a waste of money? No, it just means I can make do with something that isn't as good.
true...adding the SSD and bluetooth does bump it up to $1015.
But wouldn't most people buy it without the SSD? I wouldn't think everyone is that obsessed with read/write speed.
Even when adding an SSD, (which isn't really important to most users) the price goes to about $1020, as KPOM noted. That's still $200 less than the 11" 4/128 mac air. As I said in the first part of this post, lacking an SSD only inconveniences you for about 20 seconds. It's hard to imagine people are that impatient or so obsessed with speed.
For that matter, how many people will really notice the difference between the LV i7 and the ULV i5 or i7 in the MacBook Air? Remember, even the Core 2 Duo 2nd-gen MacBook Air was popular when it was released less than a year ago. For the same reason people buy a Honda Accord with a V6 over a 4-cylinder engine, people will buy an SSD. That said, a difference of 20 seconds in booting is quite noticeable. Plus, it isn't just booting. Running a disk intensive application is much quicker on an SSD.
You are correct about the price difference of the Lenovo. They recently dropped their prices massively and so have made the X220 a viable alternative. However, a $200 price difference is a lot different from a $700 price difference, and there are still differences in form factor that people may find attractive.
If you don't see the value in running OSX, go buy the Lenovo. Almost ALL of the value in Mac is the OS in my opinion, with the styling coming as a bonus.
No OSX? NO CARE. (And i'm absolutely right on for saying that)
Next thread.
No OSX? NO CARE. (And i'm absolutely right on for saying that)
Next thread.
true...adding the SSD and bluetooth does bump it up to $1015.
But wouldn't most people buy it without the SSD? I wouldn't think everyone is that obsessed with read/write speed.
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As I said in the first part of this post, lacking an SSD only inconveniences you for about 20 seconds. It's hard to imagine people are that impatient or so obsessed with speed.
I think that "obsessed" is unfair and meant to characterize us as having a character flaw that drives us to purchase things that we don't really need. For me, the speed of an ssd makes using a computer much more enjoyable and useful. I suppose that "most people" who aren't "obsessed with speed" would just buy a less expensive core 2 duo instead of an i5 or i7. My new employer-provided i5 windows laptop doesn't show any noticeable performance improvement over the 3 year old C2D laptop that it replaced. Most people who aren't obsessed with speed wouldn't buy a new computer until their current model becomes irreparable.
Heck, it's hard to imagine people who are so impatient that they'd waste money on a clothes dryer rather than hang their wet clothes on a line to dry. I mean, all you have to do is time the wash so that the weather's right when you're ready to dry; clothes pins and a line are less expensive; repairs are infrequent and have minimal cost.
Yes, most people who are patient and not obsessive will want a slower, less expensive computer to display their prudence with a nice pat on the back while disdaining the rest of us from their high horses as impatient and obsessive. It's hard to imagine such wisdom, but I have faith that it's out there.
I believe that having an SSD drive means much more than sheer speed "gains."
Again, for the vast majority of users and their tasks- email, browser, music, photos (general not pro-level) watching movies, WP, etc, the speed differences are not what drives the purchasing decision. 1.7Ghz versus 1.8Ghz versus 2.1Ghz... and such. I never cared. I'm not Pixar or NASA. And I'm not after drag racing bragging rights.
But what I do care about having an SSD for, is the ability to not crash if I move the laptop around while it's running. Or if it isn't fully asleep when you slip it into your bag. Solid state= no moving parts and the hard drive in my experience is always the weak link in laptops. Since I tend to keep my Macs in service for a longer time than many- TiBook- 7 years, and MBA Rev A- since day one until last week- almost 3 years- every hard drive has eventually crashed or became damaged and hence too risky.
Yes it's nice to have a laptop boot faster, but I don't reboot very often. Yes it's nice to gain some speed here and there, but since my workflow is primarily using Pages, Preview/ Excel/Numbers, Mail, Safari/Firefox/Chrome, iTunes, iPhoto, VLC, Quickbooks Pro and Angry Birds, ahem...do I really need to have the latest screamer of a system? It all changes every 9 months anyway... and I am not caught up in the neurosis of constantly upgrading to gain every fraction of a Ghz, or GB, or bit-pathway width out there- even though I can afford it. I've never felt constrained by the speed of my OS or hardware. Even switching between the Rev A and the latest MBA. Yes it's nice- even welcome- but NOT a deal-breaker. I would still be using the Rev A if the drive didn't die for a third time (other people either dropping or kicking my poor laptop!). I actually thought it had the best screen- to my eyes- for a non-pro machine that I had ever used.
I don't make myself crazy about these things- not after dealing with Apple computers since 1977, and their update cycle- but I certainly do get things done as effectively as I need to for all of my business and personal uses. That's usually my primary reason for preferring Mac systems anyway- it's ease of use and utter transparency to my workflow. I just get things done without all the hassle of having to deal with my computer being in the way. Finally, I really don't consider my computers to be interchangeable. I won't get a PC laptop to save $200 or $300.
Yes I love the design and the shape and materials and such, and especially the OS, but that's because it is in constant use, since I'm not always wanting to throw it into a wall because of dll conflicts, or virii, or constantly having to do service pack upgrades. Feh!
Again, for the vast majority of users and their tasks- email, browser, music, photos (general not pro-level) watching movies, WP, etc, the speed differences are not what drives the purchasing decision. 1.7Ghz versus 1.8Ghz versus 2.1Ghz... and such. I never cared. I'm not Pixar or NASA. And I'm not after drag racing bragging rights.
But what I do care about having an SSD for, is the ability to not crash if I move the laptop around while it's running. Or if it isn't fully asleep when you slip it into your bag. Solid state= no moving parts and the hard drive in my experience is always the weak link in laptops. Since I tend to keep my Macs in service for a longer time than many- TiBook- 7 years, and MBA Rev A- since day one until last week- almost 3 years- every hard drive has eventually crashed or became damaged and hence too risky.
Yes it's nice to have a laptop boot faster, but I don't reboot very often. Yes it's nice to gain some speed here and there, but since my workflow is primarily using Pages, Preview/ Excel/Numbers, Mail, Safari/Firefox/Chrome, iTunes, iPhoto, VLC, Quickbooks Pro and Angry Birds, ahem...do I really need to have the latest screamer of a system? It all changes every 9 months anyway... and I am not caught up in the neurosis of constantly upgrading to gain every fraction of a Ghz, or GB, or bit-pathway width out there- even though I can afford it. I've never felt constrained by the speed of my OS or hardware. Even switching between the Rev A and the latest MBA. Yes it's nice- even welcome- but NOT a deal-breaker. I would still be using the Rev A if the drive didn't die for a third time (other people either dropping or kicking my poor laptop!). I actually thought it had the best screen- to my eyes- for a non-pro machine that I had ever used.
I don't make myself crazy about these things- not after dealing with Apple computers since 1977, and their update cycle- but I certainly do get things done as effectively as I need to for all of my business and personal uses. That's usually my primary reason for preferring Mac systems anyway- it's ease of use and utter transparency to my workflow. I just get things done without all the hassle of having to deal with my computer being in the way. Finally, I really don't consider my computers to be interchangeable. I won't get a PC laptop to save $200 or $300.
Yes I love the design and the shape and materials and such, and especially the OS, but that's because it is in constant use, since I'm not always wanting to throw it into a wall because of dll conflicts, or virii, or constantly having to do service pack upgrades. Feh!
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I have it, works perfectly, thanks for asking
Interesting. So why did you write "you can buy" and not "I bought"?
Essentially, the OP's question is like saying, "A 500GB HD is $49, did I waste money buying this 128GB SSD?". It all depends on whether the advantages are worth the extra price to you. The price alone doesn't determine which one is better value, because they are not equivalent to one another, even if they do serve similar functions.
Constantly? Windows 7 is 2 years old, has 1 service pack. You made good points through most of your post then end it with complete BS.
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