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anyone has any expierence with the dell 2407?
i have a samsung 20" (205bw) that i use with my Powermac (DVI) and with my xbox360 (VGA)

i would like to update to the dell 2407 when i get my new macpro, but i have read user opinions that the 2407 sucks for displaying HDTV like the XBOX outputs (720p or 1080i) so that its basicly useless as a xbox360 gaming display or dvd/HDDVD display

as an alternative is there anyway to input my xbox360 in a ACD?

Could you define "sucks" in regard to the monitor?

I use a 2407 with my MacBook Pro and I have no complaints. I don't watch broadcast video but I've watched high quality video with no complaints. The excuse for purchasing the 2407 was actually to develop Quartz Composer at 1080p resolution so I was doing full screen resolution 3d animation with no problems.

In general, Apple and Dell tend to use the same LCD panels. Apple's Cinema's are still 23" but the 2407 is likely identical to the 24" iMac. They didn't look particularly different to me when we last had a 24" iMac in the office for a setup.

BTW, they 2407 can be had for less than the Mid-$600s. If you want one, just watch techbargains.com and slickdeals.net. You'll see them on sale i the upper $500s with some regularity.

ffakr.
 
My Dell 2405 Is Perfect

anyone has any expierence with the dell 2407?
i have a samsung 20" (205bw) that i use with my Powermac (DVI) and with my xbox360 (VGA)

i would like to update to the dell 2407 when i get my new macpro, but i have read user opinions that the 2407 sucks for displaying HDTV like the XBOX outputs (720p or 1080i) so that its basicly useless as a xbox360 gaming display or dvd/HDDVD display

as an alternative is there anyway to input my xbox360 in a ACD?
Could you define "sucks" in regard to the monitor?

I use a 2407 with my MacBook Pro and I have no complaints. I don't watch broadcast video but I've watched high quality video with no complaints. The excuse for purchasing the 2407 was actually to develop Quartz Composer at 1080p resolution so I was doing full screen resolution 3d animation with no problems.

In general, Apple and Dell tend to use the same LCD panels. Apple's Cinema's are still 23" but the 2407 is likely identical to the 24" iMac. They didn't look particularly different to me when we last had a 24" iMac in the office for a setup.

BTW, they 2407 can be had for less than the Mid-$600s. If you want one, just watch techbargains.com and slickdeals.net. You'll see them on sale i the upper $500s with some regularity.
I like the look of the base of the 2407. While I've never seen one in person, my 2405 is great and includes the ability to rotate 90° - if you have ATI graphics in your Mac which all support monitor rotation. I can't imagine the 2407 being worse. I think that guy complaining just got up on the wrong side of the rock that day. :p

If I were you I would not hesitate to get the Dell 2407 for under $600 when on super sale.
 
I like the look of the base of the 2407. While I've never seen one in person, my 2405 is great and includes the ability to rotate 90° - if you have ATI graphics in your Mac which all support monitor rotation. I can't imagine the 2407 being worse. I think that guy complaining just got up on the wrong side of the rock that day. :p

If I were you I would not hesitate to get the Dell 2407 for under $600 when on super sale.

The 2407 also supports rotation.
Actually any video card in a Mac can rotate the display IF you have 10.4. You have to hold down a modifer (control key I think) when you click on the Monitor prefpane. It's a hidden feature in 10.4.

There is a lower end model than the 2407 (which is just model size/model year.. 24" 2007 model). The 2407 has all the bells though.. height adjust stand, rotation, usb hub.. SCRATCH THAT.. the lower end model doesn't appear to be available anymore.
 
All NVIDEA Video Cards In Macs Do NOT Support Rotation Like ALL ATI Cards DO

The 2407 also supports rotation. Actually any video card in a Mac can rotate the display IF you have 10.4. You have to hold down a modifer (control key I think) when you click on the Monitor prefpane. It's a hidden feature in 10.4.
ACTUALLY NEVER DID. Not a hidden feature of 10.4. A MISSING feature of ALL NVIDEA Cards. It's not the monitors that support rotation, it's the video cards that do it. Tried it and the NVIDEA card in my Quad G5 does NOT support rotation like my ATI Radeon X1900 GT card and my PowerBook G4 64MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 do.
There is a lower end model than the 2407 (which is just model size/model year.. 24" 2007 model). The 2407 has all the bells though.. height adjust stand, rotation, usb hub.. SCRATCH THAT.. the lower end model doesn't appear to be available anymore.
Never was at 1920 x 1200.
 
Multimedia, before AppliedVisual's answer to your thread, may I jam-in the discussion. Looks like the new Sony HVR-V1V is very similar to that Panasonic HVX200 in the in-camera DSP part.

Oh wow... lots of OT camera discussion going on. I walk away for a couple days and *pow*.

The HVR-V1 uses a 3-chip approach, but this time around is a CMOS sensor instead of CCD. It's actually the first 3-chip CMOS camera to hit the market. Effective CMOS pixels work out to about 1.1M, Sony has not come out directly with the exact resolution of the sensor block, but it is using some form of pixel shifting. Horizontal for sure, quite possibly vertical shift as well. I'm guessing it's 3 x 1280x1080 CMOS censors with the green layer shifted horizontally by half a pixel to effectively double the luma information per pixel. Before you snub your nose at pixel shifting, I just have to say that it really does work well. Keep in mind that CCD and CMOS sensor data is analog in nature and is sampled as such and digitized. It's not a direct 1:1 digital pixel relationship. It also helps reduce the noise to signal ratio, which is especially important because the V1 only has a 1/4" sensor size - ouch!

Newer single-CMOS sensor cameras coming to market like the HC7 and Canon HV20 have full HD resolution sensors (1920x1080 effective pixels). But resolution isn't everything and while the HV20 isn't officially shipping in the USA yet (April), it's getting mixed reviews in the Japanese market and by previewers here in the west. Even though it has full HD resolution, several factors come into play that negate that... First of all, the internal video is down-sampled to 1440x1080 for processing and then is encoded as HDV. HDV encoding for 1080 HD is done at 1440x1080, not the full 1920x1080 raster. These newer camcorders have progressive scanning CMOS sensors, which allows them to scan at 48Hz in addition to 50/60Hz standards. Meaning that they can shoot true 24fps to mimmick film. The 24 frames per second are encoded into a 60i stream (since that's the HDV standard) and can be properly extracted for true 24p within a supporting NLE software. Not a new trick - Panasonic was the first to do this with the DVX100 camcorder. It's new for the palmcorder market though - with the HV20 being the first.

As I said, all HDV camcorders encode at 1440x1080 for 1080i HD. Canon's XLH1 uses a 3-CCD system with 1440x1080 CCDs that shift the green component layer half a pixel horizontally and then are sampled as a full 1920x1080 raster and processed that way. Full raster 1920x1080i @ 4:2:2 uncompressed can be captured live from the XLH1 via it's SDI interface, but recording to tape is still HDV 1440x1080.

Anyway, my only recent hands-on experience with compact prosumer camcorders is limited to the Sony A1 and the HVR-HC3, which I currently own. I use the HC3 for home movies, kids, pets, etc... Not good for much else. It's sensor is CMOS @ 1440X1080 and it takes a nice picture, although noisy in all but the best light. As with all palmcorders, some resolution is sacrificed when the image stabilization is turned on... And I recommend doing so unless you have it mounted on a tripod or other form of support. IMO, palmcorder video is nearly unwatchable in most situations, even for home movies.

With this newer crop of HDV camcorders, I don't know which one I would pick... I suppose it depends on your needs and your budget. While the new ones have HDMI interfaces (so does my HC3) don't worry about getting a blackmagic card or other HDMI interface/capture card. There is some evidence to support that some of these camera models will send out a video signal from a live feed that has not yet undergone HDV compression. However it's still heavily processed and has the 1440x1080 raster scaled to 1920x1080 for HDMI output along with the 8bits/channel color and all the other nasties that these cameras produce. So your gaining very little for a lot of extra hardware to lug around and in some cases, you may be taking a step backward due to the horizontal scaling goin on. You would always have to record live to a portable HDMI capture system and not to tape to gain such benefits and even then, you're not going to get 10bit/4:2:2 color uncompressed video out of a $1K camcorder -- not going to happen. So just record to tape and plug it in via firewire like everyone else. If you need better quality, buy a better camera.
 
But I thought . . . . .

Hi AppliedVisual,

But I thought the Panasonic HVX 200 did record HD through Panasonic DVCProHD coding in it's P2 Card. I presume although DVCProHD may not be 100% Full-HD spec., it should be much better than HDV in both resolution and colour space encoding ( 8-bit @ 4:2:2 + Frame base recording ) especially if I need to edit the footage extensively in case.

Sorry for the move-away of the original thread topic!
 
Most flexible so far ?

Sir,

Is it the Panasonic HVX 200 is the most flexible HD spec camcorder so far. I can note the plastic lens is no good, the P2 Card sucks on both current capacity and price, But it costs 1/10 of it's DVCProHD one piece Pro camcorder. What can we expect then!
 
Well I got my replacement 360....WOW. I turned it on and didn't hear the disc drive whining and making all the racket it usually does. Is this how it was supposed to sound all along? Silent? Either way I am happy :)....however, if the new one starts scratching discs like my old ones I will take a sledgehammer to it.

all xbox360 manufactered after novemeber2006 have a new benq/liteon/phillips dvd drive instead of the older LG or samsung drive

they are supposed to be more silent


on the topic of the 2407

i read some extra info on 2407 and the xbox, with the VGA cable it should work fine, but the component input seems to be oversaturated and unstable
i will buy one when i get my mac pro
 
But I thought the Panasonic HVX 200 did record HD through Panasonic DVCProHD coding in it's P2 Card. I presume although DVCProHD may not be 100% Full-HD spec., it should be much better than HDV in both resolution and colour space encoding ( 8-bit @ 4:2:2 + Frame base recording ) especially if I need to edit the footage extensively in case.

It does record DVCPROHD to P2 media, I never said that it didn't. The HVX200 uses a 3-CCD sensor block with an effective pixel resolution of 960x540. The green component layer is shifted half a pixel both horizontally and vertically, to effectively double the luma information in both directions. This pixel shift works very well and is more than ample to generate a full 1280x720p HD sample. The HVX200 is primarily a 720p camera. It does however offer both 1080i and 1080p recording, although it does not have much ability for detail beyond 720p. 1080 out of the HVX does show a bit more detail (in some situations) than 720p out of the camera, but any resolution chart test will show that its 1080 modes fall short of cameras like XLH1 for detail.

There are advantages to the HVX200 -- reasons I still own and use one for real work. The P2 tapeless workflow is a huge advantage if the P2 workflow can fit in with your production style and type of projects. HVX200 has variable frame rates... No other video camera under $35K has this ability. It can shoot true 24p as well as 2, 4, 12, 16, 18, 24, 30, 32, 48, etc.. up to 60fps by default. A simple tex-editor hack of a scene file (which can be loaded to the camera via SD memory card) can give the user access to any frame rate from 1fps up to 60fps by 1fps increments. The camera can also do interval/time-lapse recording too.

It does have a fixed lens, but it's actually a very nice lens regardless of what some people say. Beyond that, there are 35mm adapters that will allow the use of Nikon, Canon or PL mount still or cine lenses with this camera. Some of the results with this arrangement are nothing short of amazing when considering the price range.

Other great advantages to the HVX200 are its color and motion abilities. The color reproduction on this camera is amazing. I will argue that it has more film-like colors and better color reproduction in general than any camcorder under $10K and probably better than many other camcorders at several times its price. Since it uses DVCPRO and DVCPROHD, you do get 4:2:2 color space and I frame recording. No long GOP HDV/MPEG here, so it does have some advantages for editing. But DVCPROHD doesn't survive multi-generation rendering a whole lot better than HDV, regardless of what Panasonic and the DVCPRO fanboys tell you. It's true advantage is the 4:2:2 color as it helps tremendously with color correction and FX operations like chroma keying. DVCPROHD also has a few shortcomings too.. First of all, it's not a full raster format. Just like HDV, 1920x1080 is actually encoded as a smaller raster. For 60Hz modes, DVCPROHD records 1080 HD as 1280x1080 (50Hz PAL modes get 1440x1080). For 720p modes, the raster is encoded at 960x720. This is true of *ALL* DVCPROHD cameras as it is the limitation of the DVCPROHD format itself, so even the $60K Varicam still encodes 960x720p raster.

The HVX200 has filled lots of very surprising roles. It was used to shoot pick-up shots for Spielberg's "Munich" when they launched the film in eastern Europe and the Middle East. Due to various religious pressures of the region, some of the night bedroom scene were re-shot. The HVX200 footage was able to be matched sufficeintly to the original film production.

The HVX200 is a great camera for the money and still does a lot of things that many more expenisve cameras do not. I would recommend you rent one and try it out before buying one.. The P2 workflow doesn't work for everyone and there are some pitfalls to go along with it. But if P2 works for you and you need the frame rate options along with exquisite color reproduction and abilities, then the HVX200 is a no-brainer.

Sorry for the move-away of the original thread topic!

Don't worry about it, it wasn't your fault. :)
 
8 cores???? WOW! i wonder how long it will take to find programs to fully utilize all 8! :apple:

Let me see... I look at my shelf full of software boxes and.. That took about 1.3 seconds to find them. Many high-end 3D graphics, video processing/encoding, CAD, engineering, analysis, simulation, etc.. type apps already can use 4+ cores. Dell and HP have been selling 8-core workstations since Intel first shipped their quad-core Xeon CPUs. We're waiting for Apple to come out with their offering... Most likely Apple is waiting for the next Intel chipset revision, which is due to ship to OEMs by the end of this month, placing products using this new chipset in the hands of consumers by mid-April. This makes a perfect fit for Apple to announce and ship 8-core Mac Pro systems at the NAB show in April... Also makes sense for updated pro applications to be introduced at this show too.
 
Just thought I'd also chime in on the Dell 2407WFP discussion:

I've had one for several months and have no gripes whatsoever about it. It completely dwarfs my old 20" Dell display (2005FPW). As downset noted above, I've heard some people complain about the component inputs, but otherwise no issues. I regularly watch HD content on it directly from my MacBook Pro and it looks amazing.

I just went to my display prefpane and noticed that the rotate option is there, without requiring me to hold down any modifier keys (in fact, holding down the control key made it change the resolution to my MBP's display to 800x600... yuck!)

I'd really like to see some kind of updated video cards for the 8-core systems mainly because I plan on running 3 2407WFP LCDs off of it.
 
Toast 8 Will Use All 8 Cores

8 cores???? WOW! i wonder how long it will take to find programs to fully utilize all 8! :apple:
Among mainstream inexpensive applications, I spoke with the authors of Toast 8 at MacWorld Expo. They told me it "should" use all 8 cores of the Dual Clovertown Mac Pro according to how OS X is written today. They assured me that if it doesn't due to surprises in the hardware or OS X, they will fix it to do so as soon as the 8 core Mac Pro ships ASAP. You should also understand that it is not necessary that anything does since one of the main reasons for having an 8 core Mac Pro is to deal with a multi-threaded workflow - mostly not just running one application but many at once.
 
What Is Your Video Card In That MacBook Pro?

Just thought I'd also chime in on the Dell 2407WFP discussion:

I've had one for several months and have no gripes whatsoever about it. It completely dwarfs my old 20" Dell display (2005FPW). As downset noted above, I've heard some people complain about the component inputs, but otherwise no issues. I regularly watch HD content on it directly from my MacBook Pro and it looks amazing.

I just went to my display prefpane and noticed that the rotate option is there, without requiring me to hold down any modifier keys (in fact, holding down the control key made it change the resolution to my MBP's display to 800x600... yuck!)

I'd really like to see some kind of updated video cards for the 8-core systems mainly because I plan on running 3 2407WFP LCDs off of it.
Which MacBook Pro? What is the video card in your MacBook Pro? ATI something?

Current models use ATI Mobility Radeon X1600. My old 1.25GHz G4 PB also uses ATI Mbility Radeon 9600 which also supports rotation.

Irony is that NVIDEA does support rotation on all PCs but NEVER on any Macs.
 
Which MacBook Pro? What is the video card in your MacBook Pro? ATI something?

Current models use ATI Mobility Radeon X1600. My old 1.25GHz G4 PB also uses ATI Mbility Radeon 9600 which also supports rotation.

Irony is that NVIDEA does support rotation on all PCs but NEVER on any Macs.

I have one of the original 15" MacBook Pros from their launch (I preordered just moments after the keynote and received it almost exactly 1 year ago now, about Feb 14 or so... wow, that makes it feel old)
And yes, you're right- the ATI Radeon X1600 256MB video card is what's in it.

That's pretty interesting that nvidia doesnt support it, but I guess it makes sense, seeing as how the Macs seem to stick with ATI. I wonder, though, if there's a 3rd party driver somewhere out there that would allow for this to be done. I know there are plenty of such workarounds on the linux side of things, and since OS X has a unix core, something should be tweakable, I'd think.
 
ATI Cards Were NEVER Stock On Mac Pros Nor Last Gen G5 PMs

I have one of the original 15" MacBook Pros from their launch (I preordered just moments after the keynote and received it almost exactly 1 year ago now, about Feb 14 or so... wow, that makes it feel old)
And yes, you're right- the ATI Radeon X1600 256MB video card is what's in it.

That's pretty interesting that nvidia doesnt support it, but I guess it makes sense, seeing as how the Macs seem to stick with ATI. I wonder, though, if there's a 3rd party driver somewhere out there that would allow for this to be done. I know there are plenty of such workarounds on the linux side of things, and since OS X has a unix core, something should be tweakable, I'd think.
Apple hasn't stuck with ATI on their Pro Desktops since the last gen G5 PowerMacs which all shipped with NVIDEA as do the Mac Pros unless you BTO more expensive ATI cards. Bums me out. Had to spend $350 on an ATI card for my Quad G5 just so I could rotate a 20" 1600x1200 display in order to get it to be the same height as my 30". Lot of money - more money than the monitor - just to do rotation. Bums me out man. :mad: But I do find 1600 high by 1200 wide much more useful to me. So in that sense it was worth it.
 
So... No 8 Core Mac Pro in January then???? :D

When they do come out, you all may want to hold off buying one. i hear that we could have 8 core CPUs in 2008. 16 cores in a Mac Pro obviously is far better, so you'll want to be saving your money for that upgrade and not waste your time with a piddling 8 cores. :p
 
So... No 8 Core Mac Pro in January then???? :D

When they do come out, you all may want to hold off buying one. i hear that we could have 8 core CPUs in 2008. 16 cores in a Mac Pro obviously is far better, so you'll want to be saving your money for that upgrade and not waste your time with a piddling 8 cores. :p

I am holding out for 32 cores.

...NOT!
 
Everybody Hold Off So I Can Get Mine Sooner

So... No 8 Core Mac Pro in January then???? :D

When they do come out, you all may want to hold off buying one. i hear that we could have 8 core CPUs in 2008. 16 cores in a Mac Pro obviously is far better, so you'll want to be saving your money for that upgrade and not waste your time with a piddling 8 cores. :p
Great idea. I hope everyone here follows your advice so I can get mine sooner. :rolleyes: :p
 
8-Cores Intel should be imminent!

I guess both 16-cores and 32-cores are a bit remote and premature at this moment, but 45nm multi-core Intel is imminent later this year. So a true 4-core or 8-core Intel ( unitified on same die like AMD's ) Mac Pro is most likely sometime later this year. Btw, after so many years of Joy and pain with PCs, Intergraph, Sun and the likes, I decide to join Mac. And only Mac for me! :)
 
I Won't Be Waiting For 45nm "True" "Unified" 4 Core x 2

I guess both 16-cores and 32-cores are a bit remote and premature at this moment, but 45nm multi-core Intel is imminent later this year. So a true 4-core or 8-core Intel ( unitified on same die like AMD's ) Mac Pro is most likely sometime later this year. Btw, after so many years of Joy and pain with PCs, Intergraph, Sun and the likes, I decide to join Mac. And only Mac for me! :)
I doubt any of us here don't know that's coming near year end. But I think most of us need more cores now and will not be waiting for what's after Clovertown. When that Mac Pro ships, we'll probably either keep the Dual Clovertown and add the next one to our arsenal or sell the Dual Clovertown and buy the next one for a few dollars more. Waiting beyond Clovertown is only for those who don't really need 8 cores now which is probably nobody on this forum. :rolleyes:
 
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