8-Core Mac Pro In January? Displays Too?

[kfleung]

It's the Heat not the cores!

My concern on the 45nm is solely on their possible lower operation temperature rather than the number of cores. I thought the present two Intel Woodies running in my 2.66G Mac Pro should be pretty cool but it turns out to be very hot, an average temp. of over 72 deg.C. so are the 4 G of DDR2 FB DIMM RAM runing at above 75 Deg.C Not to mention the hot ATI X1900XT Dispaly Card. I only run the Apple's Aperture alone and a few hardware monitoring app in the backgound. I doubt the operating temperatures of the coming 65nm Clovertown ( dual-Woodies on same die ).

Surely if Apple decide to release it tomorrow, it should work but perhaps at some compromises and not at it's best. Well, who knows what the BEST is anyway!

Surely when the Dual Quad-core Clovertown Mac Pro released, you can tell us in details then. Blessing!

 

[patrick0brien]

I myself am juuuust fine with a four-core to chip machine as I work with a guy who's been doing multithreaded programming since about 1992.

According to him, there's a wall at four cores, as cache allocation gets very difficult to manage as the cores all get grabby and start stomping and stealing each other's cache allocations - or something like that, most of what he says is waaaay over my head - but he's not Chief Architect of my Company for nothing.

In a nutshell, he mentioned there's a falloff in returns. Basically you can get 100% efficiency of one core on a one-core chip, 99% of each core of a two-core chip, 96% of each core of a four core chip, but something like 72% of each core of an eight-core chip. That's quite the cliff.

Therefore, he's not expecting that moving beyond four cores per chip is going to happen for a few years yet, and four-cores is a good time to buy. So that's good enough for me.

In fact, he's a switcher-in-wait, and he'd be a great member here, don't think that's going to happen until he gets his first Mac.

(we were at CompUSA Friday and I caught him stroking the display model MacPro while muttering something about "brushed aluminum creamy goodness")

 

[Multimedia]

Send Him To WWDC So He Can Catch Up

I myself am juuuust fine with a four-core to chip machine as I work with a guy who's been doing multithreaded programming since about 1992.

According to him, there's a wall at four cores, as cache allocation gets very difficult to manage as the cores all get grabby and start stomping and stealing each other's cache allocations - or something like that, most of what he says is waaaay over my head - but he's not Chief Architect of my Company for nothing.

In a nutshell, he mentioned there's a falloff in returns. Basically you can get 100% efficiency of one core on a one-core chip, 99% of each core of a two-core chip, 96% of each core of a four core chip, but something like 72% of each core of an eight-core chip. That's quite the cliff.

Therefore, he's not expecting that moving beyond four cores per chip is going to happen for a few years yet, and four-cores is a good time to buy. So that's good enough for me.

In fact, he's a switcher-in-wait, and he'd be a great member here, don't think that's going to happen until he gets his first Mac.

(we were at CompUSA Friday and I caught him stroking the display model MacPro while muttering something about "brushed aluminum creamy goodness")

Perhaps. But the new management chipset, Stoakley-Seaburg, may help overcome some of that. And since he's driving your software development, maybe he'll go to the WWDC in June so he can keep on top of the newest developments.

I've been working with a 4 core machine for a year and I still have to set up a queue most of the time because 4 cores cannot handle more than two tasks efficiently. I need to be running 4 or more tasks simultaneously a lot of the time. Being told by strangers that I don't need 8 cores or that 8 cores is overkill really annoys me because I have real work here that I am 100% certain will benefit from an 8 core Mac Pro.

I NEVER tell anyone they don't need an 8 core Mac Pro unless they tell me they can't afford it. Then I refer them to the refurb page where they can find 4 cores for $2200.

 

[patrick0brien]

Perhaps. But the new management chipset, Stoakley-Seaburg, may help overcome some of that. And since he's driving your software development, I suggest you send him to the WWDC in June so he can catch up with why 8 cores makes since already - not to mention reading many of the above posts.

I've been working with a 4 core machine for a year and it is not just fine at all.

-Multimedia

Perhaps I should have been more clear. The falloff is more than four cores per chip.

BTW- If he were to go to WWDC, he'd be a guy on stage, so enough of the 'my daddy can beat up your daddy'

I would appreciate it if you'd ask for clarification before thinking about talking down your nose at someone - especially someone who just defended you.

 

[Multimedia]

My Bad. I am So Frustrated At How Slow 4 Cores Are Most Of The Time

-Multimedia

Perhaps I should have been more clear. The falloff is more than four cores per chip.

BTW- If he were to go to WWDC, he'd be a guy on stage, so enough of the 'my daddy can beat up your daddy'

I would appreciate it if you'd ask for clarification before thinking about talking down your nose at someone - especially someone who just defended you.

We both misunderstood each other. I didn't mean to give the impression I was talking down my nose at anyone. So I editing my original post to remove that language.

I am so frustrated at how slow 4 cores are for what I do and I thought you were writing about not needing more than 4 in a computer not 4 per package or "processor". Sorry. 16 cores cannot probably come soon enough for my video compression work. I think the 3D guys also have this problem.

Thanks for the defense. I asked the moderators if they thought that was cool and you see the result.

I think that for those of us who are here because we know we're gonna buy an 8 core Mac Pro the day it's announced for sale are probably very frustrated that day still isn't here. So these posts may be a little punchy meanwhile.

 

[patrick0brien]

We both misunderstood each other. I did mean to give the impression I was talking down my nose at anyone. I am so frustrated at how slow 4 cores are for what I do and I thought you were writing about not needing more than 4 in a computer not 4 per package or "processor". Sorry. 16 cores cannot probably come soon enough for my video compression work. I think the 3D guys also have this problem.

Thanks for the defense. I asked the moderators if they thought that was cool and you see the result.

-Multimedia

Agreed. I'm glad we can reconcile.

You're welcome on the defense, I almost reported him but I usually give someone one chance before I pull out that nuke.

Agreed that four cores are not enough for the heavy stuff - remember I do Music, Video and 3d as well, so I'm in the 8-core boat.

I was referring to the fact that buying at the 4-core per chip Clovertown is a good time due to the core limit there. To increase the core count after Clovertown they'll have to start adding chips - at least for a while yet anyway. So likely the next improvement to multicore chip tech will be the 45nm process of the Penryn, not an increase in cores.

So four quad-core chips for 16. What would Apple call that one?

BTW- if one were wanting to do that now, you could always get another machine and connect them using Fibrechannel...

 

[Multimedia]

8 Cores In One Mac Pro Is The Most We Should Expect For More Than Another Year

-Multimedia

Agreed that four cores are not enough for the heavy stuff - remember I do Music, Video and 3d as well, so I'm in the 8-core boat.

I was referring to the fact that buying at the 4-core per chip Clovertown is a good time due to the core limit there. To increase the core count after Clovertown they'll have to start adding chips - at least for a while yet anyway. So likely the next improvement to multicore chip tech will be the 45nm process of the Penryn, not an increase in cores.

So four quad-core chips for 16. What would Apple call that one?

BTW- if one were wanting to do that now, you could always get another machine and connect them using Fibrechannel...

Do you think Intel will make a motherboard with 4 Penryn sockets? That would be very cool to have if management could deal with double the core count. I agree 8 cores in a single processor package is not likely for another year and a half at least. I think I will be happy with the 8 core Dual Clovertown for at least a few months. Also depends on software behavior as well.

Looks like I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder later this month when they arrive. Gotta get something new soon or I'm gonna have CWS - Consumerism Withdrawal Syndrome.

MUST KEEP CONSUMING BUYING WHATEVER

SHOP 'TIL I DROP

BORN 2 BUY and THEN I DIE

While I can't post new threads from this place in the Forums, I discovered I can elsewhere. So I have initiated a new SONY HDR-HC7 Camcorder thread over in the Digital Video part of the Special Interests section. I didn't understand that posting threads permission is context sensitive depending on where you are in the Forums. Sorry for all the above off topics because I didn't understand that although everything is directly related to our 8 core Mac Pros in the end.

 

[patrick0brien]

Do you think Intel will make a motherboard with 4 Penryn sockets?

I think that Penryn would be required before we could get a four-socket Mobo because of its reduce power, heat, and physical size. It may also require a two-tier Mobo as well, you can bet the engineers have already got this one licked, we just haven't heard of it yet But I feel that Stoakley is a requirement at that point.

Hell, I can see a Mobo with eight sockets...

Looks like I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder later this month when they arrive. Gotta get something new soon or I'm gonna have CWS - Consumerism Withdrawal Syndrome.

MUST KEEP CONSUMING BUYING WHATEVER

SHOP 'TIL I DROP

BORN 2 BUY and THEN I DIE

I know the feeling. I just did an Entertainment System replacement a few weeks ago, new TV, new receiver, Mac Mini, and upcoming TV, so I'm in a pause.

...that is, until the 8-core

 

[cadratin]

Octopuss

Have you seen that?
http://www.macbidouille.com/articles/227/
There is no translation for the moment, but you can see they have used two Xeon X5355 in a MacPro, tests are following…
Let's hope Apple will begin production soon!

 

[patrick0brien]

Here's another, from the English side.

Linkypoo

 

[ffakr]

Quad Core demos are old news

At least two other sited demo'ed CoreQuad processors in the Mac Pro last year. This is kind of old news. As I recall, someone tried this out with 2 QuadCore Xeons when the chips were still engineering samples. We're talking last fall. Yes, it looks like the MacPros have been ready for Quads for a long time.

The issues holding this back are classic Apple.
-Quad Cores use more power.. A 2.66GHz Quad Core has max typical thermals of 120W. The now-silent Mac Pro wouldn't be silent any more with dual 80W or 120W chips in it.
- Quad Cores are expensive/clock tick. Quad Cores cost about the same as Dual cores if you compare them a speed bin apart (from each chip's sort). This is actually two speed bins if you look at raw clock. Let me explain.. Top bin for Quad is 2.66, lower bin is 2.33. Top bin for Dual core is 3.0, lower is 2.66, 2nd lower is 2.33. The cost of a dual 3.0 is very similar to a quad 2.33. The 2.33 is only one off top end for a Quad but it's clocked two bins lower in the Dual speed bins. This is a perception issue really (and Apple's huge on Perception). It might be tough marketing to push a dual-quad 2.33GHz machine for the same price (or slightly more) than a dual-dual 3.0GHz machine. This is doubly true when a large portion of Apple's core market will get more work done from the Dual-Dual (2d artists and even many 3D artists will do better with 4 faster cores for a while.. at least until 8 core workstations become common enough for more software optimization).

I suspect that Apple will release Quad core cpus in this generation of chips but I can't guess when. I suspect that they won't replace any of the current models. I suspect that Apple will slide out another dual-quad configuration or two but I don't know how they'll market it.
I also suspect well see one dual-quad XServe.
This is all just guessing though.

ffakr.

 

[Multimedia]

My Best GUESS Is April 16 NAB Expo Day One

I suspect that Apple will release Quad core cpus in this generation of chips but I can't guess when. I suspect that they won't replace any of the current models. I suspect that Apple will slide out another dual-quad configuration or two but I don't know how they'll market it.

I also suspect well see one dual-quad XServe.

This is all just guessing though.

I agree it will only be in addition to the current lineup. My guess - not prediction - is they'll be ready by April 16th at NAB. I might want to wait until it ships with Leopard and iLife '07. But if these new rumors Leopard will ship in March are true, then all should be good to go by NAB anyway. Here's hoping.

FYI - I just started a new thread for the Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder over in the Digital Video section of special interests for anyone who's interested. It's out there for only $1136.31 by the way.

 

[Macinposh]

My guess - not prediction - is they'll be ready by April 16th at NAB.

But if these new rumors Leopard will ship in March are true, then all should be good to go by NAB anyway. Here's hoping.

Well, if we want a guessing game,mine is this:

Octo will be out when Leotard will be out.

Reason?

Apple will propably include Blue-Ray into the octo (well,it being a video authoring tool amongst others..) but there is practically no support to BR apart from toast.
So, with leopard,it could implement the first tools to handle that media, both recording and playback.

I cant se apple releasing one before other, both are allready late,so they prolly will push both out simultaneusly to try to make a splash.



My 1 €.

 

[Rocketman]

The keystone

Here is what you need to make your wishes come true gents:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37562

Rocketman

 

[Multimedia]

I Wouldn't Wait Past Dual Clovertown For 45nm To Happen Sooner Than Later

Here is what you need to make your wishes come true gents:

the INQUIRER:
Intel pulls 45 nanometre chips into 1H 07

Even if true, I wouldn't wait past Dual Clovertown with Leopard & iLife'07 to buy. At best it will still be late Summer anyway.

 

[mwswami]

AMD R600 for Mac

According to the Inquirer, AMD's latest graphics board R600XTX is coming soon to a Mac near you.

"We can now reveal to you that the board you have been seeing around the web is actually a specific design which has only one customer right now. The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode."​

​

"The big R600XTX card codenamed Dragons head is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) and SIs (System Integretor) card only. The card should be launched in March and will be available at the same month but rather late march than early"​

This could also mean that the Mac Pro upgrade is coming in March.

 

[BiikeMike]

I hope they are a more trustworthy site than the Enquirer with an E

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/

 

[Multimedia]

ATI R600XTX Card For Mac Pro In March Looks Encouraging

According to the Inquirer, AMD's latest graphics board R600XTX is coming soon to a Mac near you.

"We can now reveal to you that the board you have been seeing around the web is actually a specific design which has only one customer right now. The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode."​

​

"The big R600XTX card codenamed Dragons head is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) and SIs (System Integretor) card only. The card should be launched in March and will be available at the same month but rather late march than early"​

This could also mean that the Mac Pro upgrade is coming in March.

I think you mean ATI not AMD. Although I know AMD now owns ATI, can we please keep using the ATI company name to identify their cards? I am partial to ATI cards since they support rotation and NVIDEA doesn't on Macs.

This card looks like overkill for video work. But if it's the only way I can avoid any NVIDEA cards, I will probably go that way. I use a rotated 1600x1200 20" monitor as my home screen and having gotten used to it in portrait mode since I bought the ATI Radeon X1900 GT for last gen PCIe G5 PowerMacs, I don't want to give up rotation capability ever again.

I believe AMD will soon start branding the ATI cards as AMD. So we all have to get used to the new name ...

Do you have any imperical evidence this will be the case? I like the implicaiton we get 8-core Mac Pro next month just in time for NAB's Final Cut Studio 6.

 

[mwswami]

I think you mean ATI not AMD. Although I know AMD now owns ATI, can we please keep using the ATI company name to identify their cards? I am partial to ATI cards since they support rotation and NVIDEA doesn't on Macs.

I believe AMD will soon start branding the ATI cards as AMD. So we all have to get used to the new name ...

 

[Wild-Bill]

Now THAT is one serious card!

Looks like I will be waiting till March to get the Mac Pro now...... Man, the Mac Pro will be just that much more over-the-top with one of these cards installed!

I CANNOT WAIT !!!

Hmm - I wonder if you'll be able to buy the Mac version directly from ATI/AMD. If that's the case, I could get the Mac Pro sooner and then slap one of these in when they offer it.

I have been waiting since before Christmas to buy a Mac Pro. The waiting has got to stop soon!

 

[elbirth]

Hmm - I wonder if you'll be able to buy the Mac version directly from ATI/AMD. If that's the case, I could get the Mac Pro sooner and then slap one of these in when they offer it.

I have been waiting since before Christmas to buy a Mac Pro. The waiting has got to stop soon!

Yeah, I'm hoping this will be the case as well. I was extremely close to buying a Mac Pro back in August when they were announced, but managed to keep myself from doing so for fear of another 1st generation Apple product (I've had a lot of problems with my MacBook Pro which is now exactly 1 year old).
I might would delay even further a couple more weeks if I could get one of these pre-installed, but it wouldn't be an issue at all for me if I could just slap one in there myself later. I have no problems messing around inside a computer since I build Windows/Linux computers.

In fact, the more I think about it, having a higher end card might not really be much of what I need, since I mainly just put stress on the CPU and RAM, not so much the video card (unless I were to dual boot Windows and do some gaming)

 

[BiikeMike]

I just wish this damn waiting would stop already! I WANT MY MAC PRO! Its becoming more apparant that I need one the more work I've been doing in FCP with my MacBook Pro. But I can't justify buying one today knowing that in just a month or three there will be updates!

 

[Lord Nerdos]

Enough is enough!!!

I'm ordering TODAY!!! I have to get my life back. I spend all day long on the web surfing for any clues as to when the 8 core is coming out. My productivity at work has gone downhill and I'm sure that any moment now I'm going to get called in by the boss to ask me why I spend all day on this "macrumors" site...

We all waited for Steve's keynote, in anxious anticipation of a refresh for the apple store but all we got was a phone that won't be on sale for another few months...

I'm getting my mac pro today. My powerbook rev A 12" has done me proud over the last four years. If the octocore comes out tomorrow then so be it. I have had enough of this waiting. I NEED a new computer now.

By the way, in Japan, there is a special offer on the education store that you get a free ipod nano 2GB (or the cashback alternative if you get another ipod) on all models except the mac mini. It ends in the middle of May. Read into it what you may. I have had enough of predictions and fortune telling.

So a 2.66 mac pro with the Nvidea card (for now at least) it is to be!

I'll be saying goodbye to these forums for a while. See you when the "when's the 16 core going to be released?" threads start up!!! Sayonara!!!

 

[Rocketman]

I'm ordering TODAY!!! I have to get my life back. I spend all day long on the web surfing for any clues as to when the 8 core is coming out. My productivity at work has gone downhill and I'm sure that any moment now I'm going to get called in by the boss to ask me why I spend all day on this "macrumors" site...

We all waited for Steve's keynote, in anxious anticipation of a refresh for the apple store but all we got was a phone that won't be on sale for another few months...

I'm getting my mac pro today. My powerbook rev A 12" has done me proud over the last four years. If the octocore comes out tomorrow then so be it. I have had enough of this waiting. I NEED a new computer now.

By the way, in Japan, there is a special offer on the education store that you get a free ipod nano 2GB (or the cashback alternative if you get another ipod) on all models except the mac mini. It ends in the middle of May. Read into it what you may. I have had enough of predictions and fortune telling.

So a 2.66 mac pro with the Nvidea card (for now at least) it is to be!

I'll be saying goodbye to these forums for a while. See you when the "when's the 16 core going to be released?" threads start up!!! Sayonara!!!

Your post and experience is evidence you should never wait, but go with what is available TODAY, and amortize it starting sooner so IF something exceptionally cool is released you can jusify buying it on the basis the "old" machine delivered excepional value and also has pretty high resale value.

Rocketman

 

[MacSamurai]

rumor spotted at http://www.looprumors.com/article.php?new-mac-pro-redesign,762623722 apparently new mac pro design woot