8-Core Mac Pro In January? Displays Too?

[AidenShaw]

... and just to mess with MultiMedia's mind ...

I don't know what Apple is going to do... But we won't see SS until NAB at the earliest. SS chipsets won't ship to OEMs until late February at the earliest, and that means PC mainboards based on the new platform will hit stores around late March.

And about the time the rumours abound about a ProMac with SS - we'll be hearing about samples of CSI showing up...

If you wait for SS, then you'll be forced to deal with the question of whether to wait for CSI....

( http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,39434561,00.htm )

 

[topgunn]

What good will HDMI do if the displays do not have speakers?

 

[AppliedVisual]

Here we go again, it's different LCD technology. Dell is crap consumer, Apple is pro-media quality...

Here's the thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/252327/

Oh, boy... Been over this one in multiple threads lately. This is an outdated comparison (even with the "updates") between an older revision 23" ADC and the first revision Dell 2405 - in other words, even the "updates" are still 2 years old.

Tons of discussion all over the place between S-PVA and S-IPS... Yet it seems that most discussions only focus on the downfalls unique to each and not the commonly shared problems, nor the benefits of either. Not to mention, S-PVA is the dominant tech out there these days and most panel makers are shifting away from both S-IPS and S-PVA with the shift to HDTFT which uses a different technique alltogether.

Anyway, The ADC displays are not all S-IPS, so what's the point of this argument? The 30" still uses the same Samsung 30" panel used by everyone else. LG has a new 30" panel that will be shipping soon, Apple may convert, but who knows...

The whole S-IPS vs. S-PVA argument is even less defined and a whole lot more muddy and opinionated than the Shadow Mask vs. Aperture Grille CRT argument.

A panel being S-IPS or S-PVA doesn't make it any more or less pro than if it were the other.

 

[AppliedVisual]

What good will HDMI do if the displays do not have speakers?

None what so ever... HDMI (even the latest 1.3 spec) still bases it's video definitions on DVI 1.1. Additionally, HDMI is only single-link so you can't really run any resolutions greater than 1900x1200 from it with full color gamut and 60Hz.

If they include HDMI connectors, it will be nothing more than a conveniency and marketing feature to simplify connection of consumer electronics devices and also show the consumer that they have one of those "HDTV connectors" right on the display.

But without integrated speakers or spearkers that can be attached directly to the display, the HDMI connector will make little sense as it will require consumers to buy an additional HDMI splitter so they can get audio from their HDMI source to their sound system or they will have to use additional cables for analog/digital audio in addition to the HDMI to get the sound... So HDMI seems pointless on the displays.

Some PC video/audio hybrid cards like the ATI All-In-Wonder series are starting to incorporate HDMI, but it makes sense. Video and audio from the same card, delivered over the same single cable.

 

[Rocketman]

You might want to go over to the 557 post 8 Core Mac Pro In November Thread to help yourself learn more about why 8 cores are practical and needed now. It's more about running a lot of stuff simultaneously or multiples of one intensive rendering or compressing application than it is using one that needs all 8. I'm sure Steve will explain it well enough when the time comes.

It became repetitious and as your opinion evolved, a bit schitzophrenic. But the key points are clear and valid. 8-core is needed even for slightly ahead of the curve folks due to the number of apps and processes that already live on a Mac. As heavy PROCESSING apps begin to add in, the NEED for many cores is real. I/O then becomes the bottleneck. Wi-Max, 802.11n, 1000 base T, FW800, eSATA, and other high bandwidth connections are the immediate future.

Rocketman

 

[tortoise]

And remember ZFS is coming. ZFS is a file system that really does take advantage of today's excess of CPU power and does on the fly compression, encryption and checksumming.

Not a factor at all. The CPU impact of disk I/O compression/encryption is so low that relational databases have been doing it automatically in the background for ages and it has a negligible impact even on a modest single processor. A modern core typically has a higher compression throughput than the disk subsystem has in theory never mind practice, and by a significant margin, so it will never use more than a small fraction of a single cores capacity.

These 4-core processors will primarily be useful for CPU-bound floating point applications like video compression and multimedia processing (which can always use more CPU), but not much else as a practical matter. The bus and architecture is getting a bit tight.

 

[Rocketman]

Yes, I would and I have.

I would be surprised if SS makes a difference that you can actually measure for your tasks. A few percent, sure, but think of all the video you can be crunching in the six months or more that you wait for Intel to test and produce the chip, and then wait for Apple to decide to incorporate it into a system.

That's basicly what I said to MM and AV in the long-winded 8-core thread. This option has been available to people wiling to void their warranty since about 11-20-06. Yes SS will be "good", but not all that good. Yes 45nm will be good, possibly VERY good. But we are talking May 07 or later. If your need for processing on a Mac is large and now, a MacPro with self upgrade to dual Clovertown is possible today and really works.

After I installed my MM is a bit prickly filter, I really appreciated his posts after that. He does post some helpful buying tips on non-Mac stuff.

Rocketman

 

[slidingjon]

I'm holding out for the 50", octo-core Newton. I would be shocked if this isn't released in January. Shocked, I tell you!

 

[3282872]

What good will HDMI do if the displays do not have speakers?

Two things.

1. The iSight still has to send/receive audio. It would make much more sense for all the cables to be put into one cable. I have a 23" Aluminum display with iSight mounted on top, but as it stands there are still cables for firewire and usb that have to be attached to the back of the machine. If iSight is built-in, they can drop the firewire support in the back of the monitor and concentrate on USB only (this is apparent as the 5th Generation iPod went USB, as well as all current input devices). It seems Apple may drop firewire support in the back of the new ACD's altogether. Having an HDMI wire for video and sound (for the iSight mic) would leave only two wires to plug in: HDMI and USB support. (although I take that back. HDMI to the machine would require a compatible HDMI input for video and sound - a new video card??? and how would the machine distinguish between them? Hmmmm)

2. Currently, I have two connections for my Mac Pro. An HDMI to DVI cable goes from my 42" plasma to my Mac Pro, and of course my DVI connects my Mac Pro to my ACD. It could be possible to connect a DVI cable to your monitor, then an HDMI cable from your monitor to a flat screen tv. This would allow a (wired) connection to watch movies on a local flat screen tv without the need for another direct wire from your computer to a corresponding tv.

 

[TMay]

2160p/hdmi 1.3

I started looking up 2160p, now that word of a "consumer" LCD panel is on the way, and I found that HDMI ORG is pushing for establishment of HDMI 1.3 as the prefered standard for consumer products.

So, theoretically, Apple could provide a 2160p display, HDMI 1.3 (as installed on the Playstation 3) and find a willing nvidia/ATI to provide the graphics card and charge top dollar for a BTO dual quad wlth Blu-Ray burner.

Would the content creation pro's opt for this setup?

Most likely, but I would bet we will see this system at NAB, not at MWSF, and those quad cores will be needed.

 

[72930]

Whats this SED stuff I'm hearing about on these here tubes. Apparently clearer 'n' brighter, any chance of sight in an ACD?

 

[72930]

I'm holding out for the 50", octo-core Newton. I would be shocked if this isn't released in January. Shocked, I tell you!

Why go for the octo-core, you'll just be jealous of my 32 core one. 50" is a bit big though for my pockets (I'm only 15), I would go for the 30" mini version, or even the 23" nano.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

1. A 30" moniter is big enough for any desk. With the addition of "SPACES" to Leopard, it's clear that Apple doesn't think two minoters or bigger moniters is the way to go. In fact I think 24" is perfect. No bigger is needed. Need more space? Use spaces.

2. 50" has TV written oll over it. Apple will make a 50" TV, it will be designed to look and be used as a TV, it will be black, end of story. They could bring it out with iTV, and bundle iTV inside the TV. So if you have a new TV, you buy iTV only. If you need a new TV, you buy the Apple HD Ready, iTV ready TV.

 

[golfstud]

50" will be TV if it comes

Previous poster is right, 50" will be TV...thank can be used as a monitor..it will be VERY EXPENSIVE..very niche like the 23" was when if first came out.

AS for the 8 core...NO WAY at MacWORLD.

The IPHONE is coming...or should I say the IPOD PHONE. Also ITV with its new name.

Finally, I have a hunch..and now reason to believe it...a Core2 DUO TOWER..priced at $1000...this will work with new displays and have upgrade room that the MINI doesn't have. Just one more thing.

 

[Multimedia]

Kentsfield In A Mini Tower Is More Likely Than Conroe

Previous poster is right, 50" will be TV...thank can be used as a monitor..it will be VERY EXPENSIVE..very niche like the 23" was when if first came out.

AS for the 8 core...NO WAY at MacWORLD.

The IPHONE is coming...or should I say the IPOD PHONE. Also ITV with its new name.

Finally, I have a hunch..and now reason to believe it...a Core2 DUO TOWER..priced at $1000...this will work with new displays and have upgrade room that the MINI doesn't have. Just one more thing.

I think a $1499 Core 2 Quad mini-tower is more likely. Core 2 Duo's era is rapidly ending on the desktop beyond iMac's Merom.

 

[electronbee]

8-cores, economically feasable?

I mean really... how many will be able to afford an 8-core machine? The Intel Xeon E5345 Quad-Core 2.33GHz runs in at a cool $1029 per. Now, true, that is the consumer price so a company like Apple buying in bulk will get a cheaper price.

But, by how much? Unless intel is having very successful production runs there will be limited numbers of the chips until late Spring/Summer and a price to go along with it.

They are also pulling 90 watts each. Going to need more cooling. 180 watts to dissapate!

 

[guzhogi]

Previous poster is right, 50" will be TV...thank can be used as a monitor..it will be VERY EXPENSIVE..very niche like the 23" was when if first came out.

AS for the 8 core...NO WAY at MacWORLD.

The IPHONE is coming...or should I say the IPOD PHONE. Also ITV with its new name.

Finally, I have a hunch..and now reason to believe it...a Core2 DUO TOWER..priced at $1000...this will work with new displays and have upgrade room that the MINI doesn't have. Just one more thing.

I just hope the right people at Apple are reading and actually listening to these forums so they know what we want.

 

[TMay]

1. A 30" moniter is big enough for any desk. With the addition of "SPACES" to Leopard, it's clear that Apple doesn't think two minoters or bigger moniters is the way to go. In fact I think 24" is perfect. No bigger is needed. Need more space? Use spaces.

And "nobody will ever need more than 640k of RAM".

I'm using a 24 inch now and it isn't big enough for the MCAD work that I do. So maybe a 30 inch is, but I'm sure that there are folks out there that want more resolution for FCP and Aperture, and could live and work with an even larger display. I'm not saying that Apple won't build and sell a 50 inch 1080P TV, merely that there is a desire for a 2160P monitor, a company is producing such, and people will be willing to pay for it.

Seems like a market tailor made for Apple.

 

[Multimedia]

Market For 8 Core Is Solid - They Won't Cost More Than $4k Base

I mean really... how many will be able to afford an 8-core machine?

Very many and most everybody here. It doesn't take a large majority of computer users to make a high priced super powerful Mac a hit - just a small minority that must have them like all the Fortune 1000 companies plus all the media creator companies plus all the media creator freelancers. That will more than make the 8 core Mac a huge hit.

The Intel Xeon E5345 Quad-Core 2.33GHz runs in at a cool $1029 per. Now, true, that is the consumer price so a company like Apple buying in bulk will get a cheaper price.

But, by how much? Unless intel is having very successful production runs there will be limited numbers of the chips until late Spring/Summer and a price to go along with it.

They are also pulling 90 watts each. Going to need more cooling. 180 watts to dissapate!

I'm willing to pay whatever they ask for them. I'm sure others here feel the same. Of course demand will exceed supply to begin with. It's a revolutionary product. So what if they are expensive? It's only money and you can't take it with you when you die. I think anything less than $4k will be a bargain. And I'll bet the base 2.66GHz model will be less than that.

So what if they need more cooling? Of course they're going to need more cooling.

 

[carlos700]

Such a design would not need to use a Xeon. The only practical differences between the Xeon and the Conroe desktop Core 2 Duo is that the Xeon is wired up and certified for use in a multi-cpu system (like the Mac Pro).

Using a Conroe Core 2 Duo would also allow the use of mainstream chipset on the logic board, and DDR2 memory - all of which would pull production costs down.

Given the Core 2 Duo's low thermal properties it was a big surprise that Apple never used them in the iMac - they could probably have got away with it even in the small form factor. Apple could have increased margins on the iMac, made them faster, and reduced the price...

Perhaps we will see a redesign that does so in 6 months or so?

You could use a Xeon in a single socket machine. Check out the LGA775 Xeon 3000 Series. It is completely identical to Conroe Core 2 Duo. Although, some people claim they are more durable. To my knowledge that has not be proven.

 

[Multimedia]

A 2160P Monitor Is Now Among My Number One Wants

And "nobody will ever need more than 640k of RAM".

I'm using a 24 inch now and it isn't big enough for the MCAD work that I do. So maybe a 30 inch is, but I'm sure that there are folks out there that want more resolution for FCP and Aperture, and could live and work with an even larger display. I'm not saying that Apple won't build and sell a 50 inch 1080P TV, merely that there is a desire for a 2160P monitor, a company is producing such, and people will be willing to pay for it.

Seems like a market tailor made for Apple.

Until the posts about it on this thread today, I was unaware of upcoming 2160p (4k) monitors. I imagine they will also be 3840 wide to accommodate 4k HD Video? Is that right? Who's expected to come out with them and when?

We've had 4k projectors for a little more than a year. I didn't know the LCD technology was advancing fast enough to deliver 4k LCD in 2007 already. Anyone have links to pages about this new tech?

 

[MrCrowbar]

I'm all for bigger screens. 30" is not that big actually, most people actually have two of those because dual monitors is essential for certain applications (one photo in full screen on one screen, the other screen has all the tools and palettes). Even as a programmer, I love having lots of screen space, the second screen can have all the debug info and source code while the primary monitor has the app running in debug mode.

I'm one of those people who buy a 2000 dpi laser mouse and set the speed to highest so I can move the pointer across 2 screens without lifting just by moving the mouse with my fingertips. And I'm also one of those people that find it ridiculous that most affordable LCDs out there have 72 or 75 ppi. I usually scale everything down to the degree where I can still read it, I could do more if the display was higher res. I have a 19" CRT monitor at work, that I run on 1600x1200. Blurry, distorted and only 75 Hz, but just perfect for palettes, notes, docu pages and stuff.

Most laptops have 100 or 130 ppi. 130 ppi would be a good move for desktop LCDs in my opinion. I hope Apple updates the displays with a higher res. I Would actually make me buy one.

8 Core Mac Pros i a given. Woodcrest (2 cores) and Clovertown (4 cores) can basically be swapped out and Clovertown is coming down in price. I expect to see the high end Mac pro to get dual Clovertown and the lower ones to get dual Woodcrest (as they have it now) with a speedbump. I don't really think the Mac Pros will "downgrade" to one CPU with double the cores.

 

[TMay]

Until the posts about it on this thread today, I was unaware of upcoming 2160p (4k) monitors. I imagine they will also be 3840 wide to accommodate 4k HD Video? Is that right? Who's expected to come out with them and when?

We've had 4k projectors for a little more than a year. I didn't know the LCD technology was advancing fast enough to deliver 4k LCD in 2007 already. Anyone have links to pages about this new tech?

Deliver is the key word.

http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/product/showtv.jsp?flag=20051012111324

search on CMO 2160P for more.

Here's the 2160P camera:

http://red.com/

Got Cash?
Dual Quads might bog on that video.

 

[SeaFox]

the apps have to be coded to see and utilize all those cores. 99% are not.

One of Leopard's new features may be that it is "core aware" of up to 8 cores. (Steve probably made it aware of up to 16 but won't tell us )

In the previous cases of sites swapping the dual core chips for Clovertons, Apple System Profiler saw all 8 cores, so Tiger is already able to recognize the new processors.

 

[Erasmus]

Whats this SED stuff I'm hearing about on these here tubes. Apparently clearer 'n' brighter, any chance of sight in an ACD?

If memory serves, and I haven't got them mixed up, SED is a kind of hybrid CRT and LCD monitor. Instead of using polarising filters and liquid crystal, it uses tiny, very simple electron guns like a CRT screen. Each pixel is its own CRT screen, actually three per pixel, for each colour. What does this mean? Well no backlight, so really black blacks, so high contrast ratio. It also means lower power consumption. I don't know if they use phosphorous or not, but I suppose it could mean much faster pixel response times, and maybe even more vibrant colours.

Perhaps they would even be easier to make than LCD's, as they would have less parts, which could mean really, really big screens. If you want more info, I suggest some web searches, ie. Wikipedia. Personally, I'm too lazy.