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I'm sure if Apple finds that when they shove in two 2.66 Quads in the Mac Pro, and it performs well, (As I remember others have found) it will arrive at MWSF2007. The Seaburg-Stoakley upgrade I would guess will come late, probably with er, CSI (Don't know what it is yet, but whatever, shall look soon), and maybe even 45 nm procs... Or does SS only work with 65?

I dunno, but I doubt Apple will update the Mac Pro, or even wait to update the Mac Pro just because of Seaburg-Stoakley. Along with something else, then all bets are off.

In parting, there is always room for a bigger screen, although I doubt whether we will see them at MWSF2007, unless it's only like 35" or something. 50", unless it is at the same res as the 30", I seriously doubt for a while yet.
 
I can't comprehend a 50 inch monitor sitting anywhere near my desk. In my single days I had a 50 inch Hitachi projection TV and it was the biggest around at the time.
 
Most people do not have just one app running. Heck, look at the number of processes running on your OS X box right now. 8 cores can be used by most people and won't be a waste.

Those processes usually only take a miniscule amount of CPU power and as such, don't figure into the need. A single processor can handle all those with ease.

the apps have to be coded to see and utilize all those cores. 99% are not.

One of Leopard's new features may be that it is "core aware" of up to 8 cores. (Steve probably made it aware of up to 16 but won't tell us :D )

I don't know about the veracity of this, but check this out:

http://creativebits.org/8_core_mac_pro
 
I mean really... how many will be able to afford an 8-core machine? The Intel Xeon E5345 Quad-Core 2.33GHz runs in at a cool $1029 per. Now, true, that is the consumer price so a company like Apple buying in bulk will get a cheaper price.

But, by how much? Unless intel is having very successful production runs there will be limited numbers of the chips until late Spring/Summer and a price to go along with it.

They are also pulling 90 watts each. Going to need more cooling. 180 watts to dissapate!

If you assume a single chip quad mini-tower, that all is made practical. Plenty of airflow space and pretty low wattage. Keep in mind a mini-tower is likely to only have Apple approved upgrades. Apple is loathe to really provide good upgrade paths to third parties as they might suggest or imply.

Fot YEARS the Ti Powerbooks had an IR port. Unused.

PowerMacs had FW800 fully capable if IP or HD applications. Very few devices used it.

Apple is sufficiently closed-loop they need to make or directly endorse the add-ons for their "new technologies" in order to have any notable adoption beyong extreme niche users.

Rocketman
 
I'd be very happy if Apple sold a mid-range Mac that had just one dual core Xeon with RAM configurable to 8GB and PCIe based graphic card Just about exactaly 1/2 of a Mac Pro. I'd buy it.

I would hardly call a system where you can stuff 8GB into it "mid-range", that's pretty high-end. I think that's asking a bit much, particularly when other parts of the system are expensive, cutting out one CPU and halving the memory capacity doesn't drop the cost in half.
 
Did someone say SED??

In short SED TV's will give us thinner, bigger displays, with between 5 and 10 times the contrast of existing TV's. I've said it's the future of TV since 2005.
It's better than existing TV technologies in so many ways it isn't even funny.



Here's how it works;

sed.gif
 
Here's to the 50" SED Apple HD TV with with side-load BD+DVD player, and iTV built-in. That together with my Apple iTunes TV subscription service, i'll be able to get rid of my VCR, DVD player & cable/digital subcription. Bingo! One TV, one remote, all-in-one-easy-of-use-supremacy in a super-stylish box, that and finally some customer entertainment system happiness.

Well... a man can dream can't he?
 
I think SED is one of those things you shouldn't expect to see next year, never mind at realistic prices, that would be a couple years afterwards.
 
That's the thing, Apple will present a 50 inch display with the iTV integrated.

Lg have already a hard drive integrated in their TV. Why Apple can not present a 50" display with iTV integrated?

http://us.lge.com/products/category/list/tv|audio|video_plasma%20flat%20panel.jhtml
 
That's the thing, Apple will present a 50 inch display with the iTV integrated.
Lg have already a hard drive integrated in their TV. Why Apple can not present a 50" display with iTV integrated?

They can. The questions in my mind are; Will they? And.. When will they?
 
If apple releases a 50" monitor, it would be crazy. If you connect a mac pro (or any other mac) to a 50" HD TV the picture quality is...umm horrid, as I've heard. So Apple would have to make it possible for Mac OSX to look good on a huge monitor.:D
 
If apple releases a 50" monitor, it would be crazy. If you connect a mac pro (or any other mac) to a 50" HD TV the picture quality is...umm horrid, as I've heard. So Apple would have to make it possible for Mac OSX to look good on a huge monitor.:D

That depends, if it is real, is it going to be a TV or a monitor?

Using a TV as a computer monitor is generally ill-advised except for the visually impaired and maybe show/store displays, buying a computer monitor to use as a TV is just a stupid-expensive way to do the job.

The dot pitch of an HDTV is low, but TVs are meant to be watched three meters away, not half a meter. At three, it would look great, at half, it would look pretty grainy. There are variations in HDTVs too, some are 720p or less, others are 1080p. If it's a computer monitor, then I guess Apple would have to switch to the UDI interface because at 100ppi, a dual-link interface is maxed out for the 30" displays.
 
8 core and 50"

If my memory serves me correctly, one site virtually promised the 50" for the 2006 NAB Show. It vapourised. It would seem to make sense to hold it off for that show's audience, otherwise we'd be too overwhelmed at Macworld, esp. if the 8 core and newer smaller displays are announced.

I can't see Apple announcing unless they're almost ready to ship, as they would then lose bigtime on existing inventory.

Like others, I truly hope for the BluRay, even as an option.

Happy New Year:)
 
Front Row was the laying down of the cards that apple was going to come out with an iTv like device, and will come out with large panel displays.

The living room is the direction apple has been working to. With the preview of iTv just the displays are left to round out the group.
 
That's basicly what I said to MM and AV in the long-winded 8-core thread. This option has been available to people wiling to void their warranty since about 11-20-06. Yes SS will be "good", but not all that good. Yes 45nm will be good, possibly VERY good. But we are talking May 07 or later. If your need for processing on a Mac is large and now, a MacPro with self upgrade to dual Clovertown is possible today and really works.

Yes it works, but it's not practical in a financial sense. The 8-core systems will arrive when Apple feels the time is right. I'm not in a huge rush to buy one... I sure could make use of it, but the reality is that most "multi-threaded" applications can barely scale to 4 CPUs and many just can't at all. So I can distribute my workflow across several cheaper dual or quad systems that are available now. The 8-core system coming soon should be priced comparably to current quad-core offerings and that's when it will make sense to buy them. I also have to face the reality of other expanding component costs with increasing cores. With the 3D animation work I do, most of the applications are written to handle multiple render nodes, but the node software itself rarely scales well beyond 2 CPUs. Therefore I'm running multiple render nodes to cover all the CPU cores in the most efficeint manner and each node can soak up a couple gigabytes of RAM as they work. So instead of working on a single frame at a time with all 8 cores crunching away, I'm going to end up with a system working on 3 or 4 animation frames at a time with 2 or 3 cores crunching away on each... In the end, it's about as efficient either way, but the latter will require more 3 or 4 times as much RAM.
 
In short SED TV's will give us thinner, bigger displays, with between 5 and 10 times the contrast of existing TV's. I've said it's the future of TV since 2005.
It's better than existing TV technologies in so many ways it isn't even funny.

No, what's not funny is that we've been hearing all the hype about SED for years now. And the primary backers of SED tech (Canon being one) have yet to produce any tangible product or even a demonstration that lives up to the half the hype.

I agree that SED holds tons of promise, but most of the claims about how good it is, were made 5+ years ago. At the rate LCD is progressing and prices are dropping, I don't see how SED is going to even make it to market... Upcoming LCD tech will have 220 to 350 dots per inch and we'll start seeing sub-pixel operations in the physical realm for HDTV displays. LED backlighting, per-pixel contrast masking, etc...
 
Many industries could use the processing power

Guys, I know a lot of you cannot imagine nor would ever need more processing power. God knows I have quite a few boxes at home and work that are perfectly fine as they are (primary router is a 486 that keeps chugging; I have beem tempted to retire it a time or time because of power reasons, but I did the calculations--the difference in energy costs are miniscule).

Two concrete examples of why more processing power is needed in some workstations, in two different fields (not the standard answer about video encoding, though that is a huge market that should not be overlooked):

My girlfriend works for a . . . not-so-secret, secret agency. Yeah, I really hope the sniffer program they installed on my box because I sleep with her correctly renders smiley faces. :) She is working on a project that deals a lot with fuild and projectile dynamics. Some of the requirements of what they need to be able to do are crazy-complicated--they need lots of ram and cpu. They have server farms doing stuff, but a lot of the time, it would help to have a personal workstation that the engineer can pre-test things on. So enter in the concrete example. There team has a couple of the new Dell 390s--the ones that come with the QX6700 and 4gb ram (ddr2--apparently, Dell will only ship them with 4gb of ram (4 slots), but I know there are 2gb ddr2 chips out there; it could be they do not want to canabilize sales of the 490/690 Xeon line). Anyway, they were under the impression that a workstation like this with plenty of internal raided space would be sufficient to run existing models for short periods of time, and also allow them to plan for the future. They unboxed it, set it up, and found out in the first day that they were wrong. In their two boxes, both memory and cpu were still saturated. This is a $4500 box. Suffice it to say that this "institution" has no funding problem, so no doubt they could keep buying more. But up until now exactly how would you get a much more "powerful" workstation?

Second concrete example. I work for one of the very large biotechs in the San Francisco Bay Area (yeah stock options!). Anyway, we use some pretty intensive software for discovery (anyone work with BLAST?) When you submit a job to our clusters, you have to have a damn good idea of what you are doing. Grid time is expensive (even with today's computers). In my opinion (and my bosses) this limits that creative-scientific thought process in many ways. I persuaded her to get a Mac Pro (2.66ghz) and a Dell 390 (quad configured). Both 4gb ram. In my simulations, I think the ram is fine for now (we can limited the variables we ask in any question, but with memory prices falling, too, at least for ddr2, we are thinking of asking bigger ones in each chunk). We got both so we could do the comparison (the bufferred memory really does slow it--in our sims about 7%, but you can have so much more memory on one of those boards). Anyway, just like my girlfriend, we found out we could use much more processing power. Much more. And for an added $2k, this is a no-brainer for us. Or for many large companies (uhm . . . and agencies :) Again, these are highly specific applications to our industries, but they are widely used applications. And by people who have money. If you, Steve Jobs, are reading this, we will buy crazy amounts in a heartbeat. The time/energy spent in crafting a job so that you do not waste processor time on a grid or cluster is, I feel, enough to justify spending more on personal workstation.

A couple more things in this ridiculously long posting. Does no one remember the SUN and SGI workstations of old? Lots of memory, IO, processing power? There are many industries just salivating at the way Intel and AMD have been beating the hell out of each other. And the modelling folks in our company consider NVIDIA cards first now (thanks to the NVIDIA/ATI wars). A lot of this power may never be used by 99% of people (do not know the numbers), but that 1% who does use them will pay!!!

Also, god love SATA/eSATA. For $1200, I put together a little raided array to have my datasets on. 5 500gb 7200 sata drives, an enclosure, and a port multiplier card. 2TB, raid5. And the performance is great. I am getting 190MB/sec (raid5!) on ZFS. I tested it on the Dell 390 (running Solaris and ZFS). In HFS+ tests before I got this new hardware, I was getting about 25-30% less speed than on ZFS. Will test in the next week or so. So, again, Steve, make sure there are plenty of PCIe cards available, and please give us ZFS, even if only on non-root volumes.

We tend to go on buying plurges every 2-3 years. Our Apple reps smiles when asked about the 53xx in the Mac Pro/Xserve lineup. Strangely, he seems to think we should wait a little while before investing heavily (and I mean heavily) in these boxes. Kind of nice when he could take the commission now, even though the bastard will not tell me when these come out. The last round of buying, I have to convince our IT guys to open up and allow Macs/OSX to be considered for a lot of these things. This time (wether because they have learned more about OSX or because they are now Intel-based or because the Mac Pro acually seems to be prised better than the comparable Dell), they are the ones who started pushing this round of upgrades first.
 
Those processes usually only take a miniscule amount of CPU power and as such, don't figure into the need. A single processor can handle all those with ease.
Maybe on your box. I have noticed as the capability of the software / OS has expanded, I have a lot heavier stuff running in the background. This is not a poweruser thing, but a "look at this" thing.

I would probably be more agreeable towards your statement if you argued I/O bound tasks and the like, but people will notice a difference given all the background stuff people do (e.g. importing disc in iTunes (encoding)).

Also, the greater use of virtualization software begs for dedicated cores for the VM.
 
No, what's not funny is that we've been hearing all the hype about SED for years now. And the primary backers of SED tech (Canon being one) have yet to produce any tangible product or even a demonstration that lives up to the half the hype.

I agree that SED holds tons of promise, but most of the claims about how good it is, were made 5+ years ago. At the rate LCD is progressing and prices are dropping, I don't see how SED is going to even make it to market... Upcoming LCD tech will have 220 to 350 dots per inch and we'll start seeing sub-pixel operations in the physical realm for HDTV displays. LED backlighting, per-pixel contrast masking, etc...

FWIW, Toshiba and Canon demo'ed SED prototypes at CES last January that were doing 32" 720p and predicted 55" 1080p by this year.

Pic's and stories:
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/10010/Toshiba-Shows-SED-Prototype-for-the-First-Time/
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/08/sed-up-close-and-personal/
 
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