8-Core Mac Pro with Clovertown... in November?

[Multimedia]

Zactly The Mac For Your Jobs

If I was running upcomming Leopard OSX, a few osx apps, the full upcoming CS3 Suite (not necessarily Batch Processing), have After Effects rendering a 30 minute clip in the background, downloading *legal torrents, watching internet tv (muted), while burning a DVD and listening to music..

That keeping in mind I won't necessariy be rendering-multiple scenes, while encoding, batch processing with a multiple of applications while running SETI@home .... yet

Would that kind of Multi-tasking benefit through Multi-threading on the Octobot's 8-Cores..
Or slighly / not significant enough to warrant Going Octo over Quad..

IMHO Definitely. With the Quad each process you describe will run slower and/or flat out bog down the Mac so you can't even word process without waiting for characters to appear. I know this 'cause I already have this happening to me a lot on the Quad G5.

 

[gnasher729]

Thanks for the heads up. I guess I'll have to wait for someone else or me at a store to make sure Toast and Handbrake don't have those bugs.

That kind of bug is the reason why a programmer would be very hesitant to use more processors than are available on any machine the code has been tested on. It is not unlikely that for example Handbrake has a built-in limit of four processors, because the developers never had a machine with eight processors.

 

[Multimedia]

Don't Care Nothing Can Use All 8. Don't Want any One To Use All 8. Want To Run More.

That kind of bug is the reason why a programmer would be very hesitant to use more processors than are available on any machine the code has been tested on. It is not unlikely that for example Handbrake has a built-in limit of four processors, because the developers never had a machine with eight processors.

I'm not worried about that at all. Only worry about crashes due to not knowing what to do when 8 are reported. I want to run 4 things at once so I am not concerned each can't use all 8 at once. That's a feature not a bug.

 

[jaguarx]

Personally I'm waiting for this upgrade not for the 8 cores (it doesn't really help my kind of workflow much) but hopefully a base of 2 gig ram for less and a price drop, even a small one on the quad 2.66 and 3.0Ghz processors. Considering the Macbook Pros now come with 2 gig base it seems fairly likely.

That said the one thing I'd love to see would be hardware RAID support. I just don't quite trust softRAID as much as dedicated hardware and would love to do RAID1+0 with WDRaptors.

 

[~Shard~]

Personally I'm waiting for this upgrade not for the 8 cores (it doesn't really help my kind of workflow much) but hopefully a base of 2 gig ram for less and a price drop, even a small one on the quad 2.66 and 3.0Ghz processors. Considering the Macbook Pros now come with 2 gig base it seems fairly likely.

Keep in mind the Mac Pro does not use the same type of RAM as the MBP. The Mac Pro uses FB-DIMM technology which is much more expesnsive, so as a result, I would disagree with you and say that it is not very likely we will see 2 GB as the base RAM configuration in the new Mac Pros - not without the extra cost being compensated for in some manner.

 

[jaguarx]

Of course it will probably be slightly more expensive but with any luck less than it currently is to go from 1 to 2. Or for that matter 1 to 4. I find it hard to believe Apple will leave it's premiere flagship workstation shipping with less ram by default than it's laptop range. The RAM thing is confusing, I don't know whether I'm better off buying it with 1 gig then buying 4 1G sticks afterwards or whether that will affect performance and I'm better off just buying 4G straight from Apple.

 

[AppliedVisual]

Of course it will probably be slightly more expensive but with any luck less than it currently is to go from 1 to 2. Or for that matter 1 to 4. I find it hard to believe Apple will leave it's premiere flagship workstation shipping with less ram by default than it's laptop range. The RAM thing is confusing, I don't know whether I'm better off buying it with 1 gig then buying 4 1G sticks afterwards or whether that will affect performance and I'm better off just buying 4G straight from Apple.

Apple leaves the default RAM configuration small so that people can customize it to their needs - even with aftermarket RAM. If they boosted the base RAM to 2GB (or even 4GB), that would be great, but only if the price was still competitive. Apple's current RAM prices are not competitive, nowhere near close. Several vendors are now selling FB-DIMM memory with Apple-compliant heatsinks for half of what Apple is charging. But it has also been a few months since Apple has adjusted their prices on RAM... I guess we'll just see what happens when the updated Mac Pro offerings are announced.

I am also of the opinion that Apple should not sell the 512MB FB-DIMM modules since they only run at half-bandwidth of the 1 and 2 GB modules. Or they should offer the ability to buy the Mac Pro with no RAM. That would be interesting. I'm not sure if they'd go for selling a system config that would require a third-party purchase just to make it work.

 

[Eidorian]

Apple's current RAM prices are not competitive, nowhere near close.

SO-DIMM, yes. FB-DIMM, no.

 

[AppliedVisual]

SO-DIMM, yes. FB-DIMM, no.

I still have to disagree with that. They've priced their RAM on Macbook Pro systems in a way that it's not really worth it to buy a second 1GB stick elsewhere, better to get the matched pair when you buy. 2GB module pricing is about $150 higher than elsewhere. For the Macbook, it's still cheaper to buy a system with the lowest config and then buy elsewhere. Apple wants $500 to upgrade the blackbook from 2x256 to 2x1GB. That's nuts. I can buy 2x1GB for right at $200 from any decent vendor and that's good, name-brand memory modules. So how do you figure their prices on SO-DIMMs are competitive.

 

[Multimedia]

Hoping For Two 1GB Sticks As New Minimum Base Offering

I am also of the opinion that Apple should not sell the 512MB FB-DIMM modules since they only run at half-bandwidth of the 1 and 2 GB modules. Or they should offer the ability to buy the Mac Pro with no RAM. That would be interesting. I'm not sure if they'd go for selling a system config that would require a third-party purchase just to make it work.

Doubtful. What I'm hoping for is a base of two 1GB sticks, losing the two 512 sticks as you say they should end selling with this update. An 8-core Mac Pro would not run very well with only 1GB of slower RAM. I believe an 8-core Mac is going to want 8GB of RAM to run properly but I imagine 4GB would be enough for fairly decent operation. Depends on your apps. The ones I like to run don't use much RAM at all.

 

[Trishul]

I don't want to seem judgemental, but the last thing I ever plan on doing is selling my G5 Quad. I mean like I will have my G5 Quad until I DIE. Why would you do that? It runs classic. It runs Adobe native. It is pretty fast for email and word processing. And it runs dead silent. It's the perfect backup for when the Mac Pro goes down. At the very least it makes for a great HDTV player and recorder with EyeTV 500 or Hybrid attached.

What was your reasoning?

And what's up with you not knowing the 8-core was coming? This is very old news. Some of us have known since early this year.

i wish i could have kept the Quad for some of those reasons mentioned, but it's purely down to financial reasons, i simply wouldn't be able to afford keeping both. I'm a film-maker just starting out, so i'm not getting a very steady income that is related to work done with a computer to be able to justify such expenditures etc.. firstly i got a decent price for my quad, i wouldn't have sold otherwise, it'll only be a few hundered pounds for me to upgrade to a mac pro, but i sold partially because i'm one of those who likes the newest etc.. but main actual reasons are
1) I mainly use HDV with Final Cut Studio, so the performance bump would be very useful for me, obviously more of a luxury, FCP worked fine on the quad, but anything better is worth it. 2) I use adobe but any of the few deadlines i have don't really rely on the use of adobe software, but i know in a few months the use of adobe stuff will be much more important to me and i'll have to buy a license, CS3 will probably be out by then as well as other Universal Binary converts, and i imagine the Quad will only be worth having for people needing a backup machine, the value of it will drop like anything, no?? rather sell now while the value of it is still fairly high, and especially because they are out of stock everywhere. 3) I get a windows capable machine that is powerful enough to let me use some software i wouldn't have been able to use before on my 2.4ghz, 1gb PC, as well as run games properly on my 30". Buying a seperate similar specced Windows PC wouldn't be worth it for me, but the situation with bootcamp is just perfect for my needs.

If i was running a steady business, no way would i have sold the Quad, but i'd rather sell now while i can afford to be sans mac, rather than down the line when i know the mac pro will be extremely sought after and get bottom dollar for the quad.

oh i knew the 8-core was coming out, i just didn't know it would be this soon, i've only recently started getting into the 'underground' gossip of macs, and i don't know where i got the idea from but i thought the octo would be around Q1/2 of next year, and i would just have just done the upgrade myself if it warranted it. Anyway i was able to finish all my work this weekend before i shipped it today, so in a strange way i have a sort of holiday thanks to this news, though as a recent mac convert i can't believe i used to live like this, already missing her.

 

[paulvee]

A Side Question

This doesn't have anything to do with the new machines, but does anybody have in inkling of how to get extra drive sleds for a MacPro?

Apple sales has been more than useless when I ask them about it.

You would think a 3rd Party would come with some knockoff. I would buy 4 right off the bat. Sheesh, it's just metalwork. Somebody ought to make one.

 

[Multimedia]

How 'Bout Asking Third Party Mac Pro Add On Companies Like WiebeTech?

This doesn't have anything to do with the new machines, but does anybody have in inkling of how to get extra drive sleds for a MacPro?

Apple sales has been more than useless when I ask them about it.

You would think a 3rd Party would come with some knockoff. I would buy 4 right off the bat. Sheesh, it's just metalwork. Somebody ought to make one.

I don't, but that's an excellent question. I could see wanting those myself. Have you asked third parties like WiebeTech about it yet?

 

[AppliedVisual]

This doesn't have anything to do with the new machines, but does anybody have in inkling of how to get extra drive sleds for a MacPro?

The Mac Pro uses sleds??? Uh, oh... Why Apple, why??? So it's not like my G5 quads where everything you need is included (just add drives)? That sucks.

Is this really true?

 

[paulvee]

I don't, but that's an excellent question. I could see wanting those myself. Have you asked third parties like WiebeTech about it yet?

I have not. Been too busy living in FCP all day and night and trying to get Sonnet or Promax to get a working driver for the E4P card that's supposed to power the unit I got from Promax. It's on my list, but feel free to call them if you have time. There is power in numbers. If you call, post here and I'll call that day and maybe we can jar something in their R&D depts.

 

[BJNY]

maxupgrades.com should soon be offering sleds, and brackets to hold hard drives in the optical bays.

 

[Multimedia]

Mac Pro Comes With 4 Sleds Ready For More HDs • 2GB Mods Now Cost Less Than 1GB Mods

The Mac Pro uses sleds??? Uh, oh... Why Apple, why??? So it's not like my G5 quads where everything you need is included (just add drives)? That sucks.

Is this really true?

No AV you misunderstand. Mac Pro comes with 4 HD Sleds built in. What he's asking is if we could get more so we can have a bunch of HDs already mounted in additional sleds so we can pop 'em in real fast whenever we need to change them out for different client projects.

maxupgrades.com should soon be offering sleds, and brackets to hold hard drives in the optical bays.

Good to know.

Just noticed 1-8004MEMORY is now selling 4GB KIT (2GBX2) DDR2 667 ECC FULLY BUFFERED FOR APPLE MAC PRO for only $690 each via this Ramseeker.com link . This makes 2GB sticks now lower crossover price per GB - $172.50 each - vs. 1GB sticks which are priced more than $200 each now. Happy days are here again!

But not sure if heatsinks are included. Can't tell without calling them tomorrow.

Then I would add a pair of $75 MaxSink Heatsinks for a total of $765 per 2x2GB kit still only $191.25/GB.

Or just get the MaxSinks already installed properly with 2 Samsung 2GB sticks for $789 from MaxUpgrades.com.

So a 6GB 8-Core Mac Pro is looking like about $4500 to me now.

 

[AppliedVisual]

No AV you misunderstand. Mac Pro comes with 4 HD Sleds built in. What he's asking is if we could get more so we can have a bunch of HDs already mounted in additional sleds so we can pop 'em in real fast whenever we need to change them out for didfferent client projects.Good to know.

Oh... That makes much more sense now.

Now what about instead of dealing with the solution of swapping drives in/out of the Mac Pro, instead use an external fiber channel or eSATA drive enclosure with hot-swappable drives? Fiber channel would be expensive unless you're already using it, but eSATA enclosures aren't all that bad.

 

[Multimedia]

Wonder If Adaptec eSATA Enclosures Will Work With eSATA Cards On A Mac Pro

Oh... That makes much more sense now.

Now what about instead of dealing with the solution of swapping drives in/out of the Mac Pro, instead use an external fiber channel or eSATA drive enclosure with hot-swappable drives? Fiber channel would be expensive unless you're already using it, but eSATA enclosures aren't all that bad.

I already have a bunch of Adaptec eSATA/USB2 SATA enclosures that say they only work as USB2 on Macs. But I wonder if they won't work on any eSATA PCIe card we can put into the Mac Pro. How expensive are those eSATA PCIe cards anyway?

BTW I find USB2 HD hook ups to be far less problematic and just as fast or faster than FW hooks ups. Is that true?

 

[AppliedVisual]

I already have a bunch of Adaptec eSATA/USB2 SATA enclosures that say they only work as USB2 on Macs. But I wonder if they won't work on any eSATA PCIe card we can put into the Mac Pro. How expensive are those eSATA PCIe cards anyway?

I don't know why it wouldn't work... In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen eSATA enclosures advertised as working with a Mac. I'll see if I can find one.

BTW I find USB2 HD hook ups to be far less problematic and just as fast or faster than FW hooks ups. Is that true?

I've had pretty much the same luck... Some USB2 devices struggle a bit due to the onboard USB2 chipset, but for the most part, they're equivalent to FW400 (with a max rate of 480Mbps) and USB2 handles traffic from multiple devices better than firewire. OTOH, lots of older Mac systems, especially those Powerbook G4s, struggled with USB2 and often exhibited poor performance. But overall, I think USB2 has a bad reputation that it didn't deserve to get stuck with. In my experience having owned quite a few USB2 storage devices, I find that poor performance is more the fault of the device maker than the interface itself as I've got some hard drives - like a couple of my external Maxtor units, that perform blazingly fast and in no way slower on USB2 than when connected via FW.

 

[jaguarx]

I've always found UBS2 HDs to be on average a little slower than FW400 but then FW800 kicks the **** out of it. If you needs the IO it's SATA through.

 

[aquadjcity]

Cancelled Order; Waiting for Eight...

My quad was to ship today, after waiting four business days and two weekend days for a CTO build (2 GB RAM). But I would feel sick to have had the machine for a week when the Octo's are announced. I hope this baby makes Logic Pro sing...

 

[~Shard~]

My quad was to ship today, after waiting four business days and two weekend days for a CTO build (2 GB RAM). But I would feel sick to have had the machine for a week when the Octo's are announced. I hope this baby makes Logic Pro sing...

I hope you don't have to wait too long...

 

[Multimedia]

Brilliant, Congratulations and Welcome Aboard The 8-Core Express!

My quad was to ship today, after waiting four business days and two weekend days for a CTO build (2 GB RAM). But I would feel sick to have had the machine for a week when the Octo's are announced. I hope this baby makes Logic Pro sing...

Nothing will be better for complex music work than an 8-core Mac Pro. I admire your courage to realize the 4-core Mac Pro was more of a stop gap model than what the market needs longer term.

 

[SRSound]

Nothing will be better for complex music work than an 8-core Mac Pro. I admire your courage to realize the 4-core Mac Pro was more of a stop gap model than what the market needs longer term.

Can you elaborate on that? I have a pending Mac Pro purchase for my recording studio, based on Pro Tools, and I can't decide if I would benefit from the additional cores. I know Pro Tools can't utilize more then 2 at a time, but I'm wondering if all the additional processing (virtual effects, instruments, etc) would get a boost...