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Think SAME

Originally posted by Balooba
ÜberMac
MacAroni
MacBeth
Freedom Mac

... I hate to tell y'all this, but the new name for the computer will have the letter 'X" in it. Everything nowadays must have the letter "X" in it's model name because Madison Avenue demands it. That's the only way to "fit in" nowadays.
=-=
... the new case for the computer will have shiny chrome underneath lots of clear plastic, like a pimp car tail-light, because Madison Avenue demands it. That's the only way to "fit in" nowadays.
=-=
Think SAME. Wear the SAME "not-me" uniform. Sport the SAME "not-me" badges...because Madison Avenue demands it.
-
JJ
 
Stuff from IBM

Read this article: IBM

it seems to be of some interest.

New IBM eServer System Offers 110 Percent More Performance

Supports Both AIX and Linux -- IBM Completes Integration of POWER4+ Technology Across UNIX Server Line

ARMONK, N.Y. -- May 28, 2003 -- IBM today announced a new low-end IBM eServer(TM) system that offers 110 percent more performance at one-third lower cost than its predecessor,(1) making it an attractive option for small- and medium-sized businesses.

With this new system IBM now offers customers a complete range of servers from high-end to low-end with POWER4+(TM) technology, resulting in one of the fastest complete rollouts of 64-bit server chip technology in recent history.

"IBM is committed to delivering UNIX systems with no compromises on performance or price," said Karl Freund, vice president, IBM eServer pSeries. "Integrating POWER4+ technology into low-end eServer pSeries systems continues our trend of driving down price points while at the same time dramatically increasing performance."

IBM is committed to delivering the latest technology to customers. In only six months, IBM redefined the economics for UNIX® servers - offering maximum performance at an affordable cost - by integrating POWER4+ microprocessors at the high-end with the introduction of the IBM eServer pSeries(TM) 690 and p670, at the mid-range with the eServer p655 and p650, at the low-end with the p630 and now with the new IBM eServer p615. This new IBM eServer system delivers a high-performing, low-cost, one-or two-processor, entry-level system that does not sacrifice performance, value or features.

As with all the POWER4+ servers, IBM offers support for AIX 5L(TM), IBM's UNIX operating system, and Linux, bringing customers wide application support. According to HP, as of last month there are only about 300 applications available today running on Itanium. (2)

Available in rack-mounted or deskside versions, the eServer p615 is a powerful and affordable entry-level system ideal for running applications such as enterprise resource planning, supply chain management, customer relationship management and business intelligence at a wide range of organizations -- from small and medium size businesses to divisions of large enterprises. Customers can also cluster multiple systems together to perform dynamic and powerful applications for scientific research or data modeling.

Key features of the p615 include:
IBM's POWER4+ microprocessor. The POWER4+ microprocessor is a "server on a chip" that contains two one-gigahertz-plus processors, a high-bandwidth system switch, a large memory cache and I/O. IBM's POWER family of microprocessors is among the most widely used in the industry and can be found in Nintendo game consoles, Apple computers and some of the world's most powerful supercomputers and storage systems.

Expanded Internal Storage. Containing over one terabyte of internal disk storage, the p615 has eight times as much disk storage capacity as the Sun V240 (3) (1.17TB versus 144GB) 2.6 times as much disk storage as the HP rx2600 (4) (1.17TB versus 438GB). Ample storage capacity enables customers to run powerful applications without having to buy additional attached storage devices. Six PCI slots allow connectivity to a wide variety of other servers and devices.

Full Remote Operation. Information technology leaders and system administrators can manage the p615 remotely using a handheld wireless PDA or other wireless devices.
The new IBM eServer p615 is planned to be available on May 28, 2003 in a one-way option at a starting price of $5,745.(5)

# # #


IBM, the e-business logo, eServer, pSeries, AIX, POWER4+, are trademarks of IBM Corporation in the United States and/or other countries. Intel and Itanium are trademarks or registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. All other company/product names and service marks may be trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective companies. UNIX is a registered trademark in the United States and other countries licensed exclusively through The Open Group.

(1) - Performance based on rPerf results of 2.50 for a 1-way pSeries 615 using 1.2 GHz POWER4+ processors and 16GB of memory vs. 1.19 for a 1-way pSeries 610 using 450 MHz POWER3- II processors and 8GB of memory. rPerf (Relative Performance) is an IBM estimate of commercial processing performance. Pricing based on pSeries 615 Express Configuration with 1-way 1.2 GHz POWER4+ processor, 1GB memory and one 36.4GB disk drive at $5,745 vs. pSeries 610 Express Configuration with 1-way 450 MHz POWER3-II processor, 1GB memory, CD-ROM and one 36.4GB disk drive at IBM U.S. list price of $8,895. Both Express Configurations include AIX license and one year of Software Maintenance for AIX Operating Systems (SWMA). Prices are current as of May 27, 2003 and are subject to change without notice. Reseller prices may vary.

(2) - HP executive commenting on Itanium application support. Story by Stephen Shankland, CNET, April 16, 2003. http://news.com.com/2100-1006-997127.html

(3) - Details on Sun configuration can be found at www.sun.com. Information current as of May 27, 2003.

(4) - Details on HP configuration can be found at www.hp.com. Information current as of May 27, 2003.

(5) - All prices as of May 27, 2003. Prices are subject to change without notice. Reseller Prices may vary. General availability for a 2 processor configuration is expected on June 20, 2003.
 
Confirmation of the 970...

"IBM's POWER family of microprocessors is among the most widely used in the industry and can be found in Nintendo game consoles, Apple computers and some of the world's most powerful supercomputers and storage systems."

Well I don't need anymore proof than an IBM press release, does anybody else?
:)

So now the question really just is... when?

If it is in June then I think this will be an amazing summer for Apple.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Intel 64-bit desktops - buy one today...

Originally posted by Cubeboy
An application that has outgrown a 32-bit computing environment or require larger amounts of memory than 32 bit computing can offer or high precision arithmatics will run faster in 64 bit. These include large databases (larger memory allocations/user, large file implementation, reduced swapping), decision support (direct addressing ,large file implementation, reduced swapping), and technical applications (high precision arithmatic, reduced swapping).

You don't get higher precision with 64-bit integers, you get larger range. And you can do this in a 32-bit application now, albeit at a slight penalty in speed. And you won't reduce the amount of swapping unless you also have more than 4GB of memory installed in the machine (which may or may not be a moot point - it will depend on how many memory slots the machines come with). So the only guarunteed advantages of those listed above are larger memory allocations and direct addressing (of >4GB of RAM). Everything else is either done today or requires hardware support outside of a 64-bit processor.

32 bit applications will perform better staying as a 32 bit binary (unless it can take advantage of a specific 64 bit feature) since more of the application fits into the system's cache. When a 32-bit application is recompiled to 64 bits, the 64-bit binary will be significantly larger. Performance will therefore decrease due to the greater number of cache misses when running the 64-bit binary.

The cache usage issue is moot unless you are considering pointers, otherwise a 32-bit processor can deal with 64-bit integers (and in fact this already happens fairly often in MacOS software - from the MacOS 8.5 days!). And a 64-bit binary is not significantly larger than the same source compiled into 32-bits - in fact it may be slightly smaller (since 64-bit integer ops will be one instruction instead of at least 5 iirc) (this is on PowerPC and is probably different for other processors). As such, the number of cache misses will also be minimally different.
 
Re: Confirmation of the 970...

Originally posted by patmcfar8
Well I don't need anymore proof than an IBM press release, does anybody else?
:)

So now the question really just is... when?

If it is in June then I think this will be an amazing summer for Apple.
You do know that IBM's chips (in the form of G3's) are already in iBooks and other Apple products, right?
 
Re: Re: What Nonsense

Originally posted by whooley
Apple's inventory times are a bit 'strange'. For instance, in the Cork plant, some of the suppliers occupy part of the plant, they push a pallette of components through a gate and it becomes Apple inventory, it goes through the production line and out another gate and it's no longer Apple inventory. All in the same building.

This is how Apple are able to keep inventory times so low.
This also how Dell keeps component inventory so low. You have your suppliers stock your warehouse but charge you spot prices for the part as you use them, not when they are shipped.
 
Re: Re: Confirmation of the 970...

You do know that IBM's chips (in the form of G3's) are already in iBooks and other Apple products, right?

Actually, the press release isn't about IBM chips in general, but specifically about the POWER series, which the G3 is not--so unless today's press release is simply a thoughtless error, it is saying something new. (The PPC970 is a POWER 4 derivative.)
 
Yes, but is the G3 part of the IBM POWER family of microprocessor?

If so then, damn... :(

If not then, sweet! :)

EDIT: Thanks for answering my question before I asked it nagromme. ;)

If this is an admission on IBM's part that they are developing the 970 for Apple, then wouldn't Apple legal be all over this press release?
 
Re: Think SAME

Originally posted by JJTiger1
... I hate to tell y'all this, but the new name for the computer will have the letter 'X" in it. Everything nowadays must have the letter "X" in it's model name because Madison Avenue demands it. That's the only way to "fit in" nowadays.
-
JJ

From what I understand the latest trend is for things to be vanilla flavored or have a lemon "twist", so the new powermacs will come with scent emitters that put out vanilla or lemon smells. Personally, I'm looking forward to the HempMac, which emits, well, you can see where this is going...
 
Originally posted by Abstract
Power refers to Power4, which definitely isn't a G3. ;) This verifies the 970 being used in Apple computers. :D

DID THE PEOPLE WHO STILL BELIEVE ITS STILL JUST A RUMOUR HEAR THAT!!!

But the Nintendo game consoles don't use a POWER4 derivative, and they're mentioned also.

I think they consider all of the PowerPC processors to be in the POWER "family," and this does not confirm anything (unfortunately).
 
Re: Confirmation of the 970...

Originally posted by patmcfar8
"IBM's POWER family of microprocessors is among the most widely used in the industry and can be found in Nintendo game consoles, Apple computers and some of the world's most powerful supercomputers and storage systems."

Well I don't need anymore proof than an IBM press release, does anybody else?
:)


I do. POWER family here refers to PowerPC in general in regards to Apple. Are you saying this is also proof that Nintendo comes with a PPC 970? This sounds like the same old POWER 4 which has two processors on one chip, unlike the 970 which has one and would require 2 separate processor cards.
 
Think SAME

Originally posted by rog
From what I understand the latest trend is for things to be vanilla flavored or have a lemon "twist",...

Hello, it's 2003. Turn on your tv for an hour or so. Madison Avenue tells you that you must have multi-flavored smells/tastes in-one-package: candles, candy, Kool-Aid ...

Computers that can boot into more than one OS is just so pass'e, so the OS has the old flavor wrapped by the new flavor...

Vanilla and lemon twist is just so last-year.:p
-
JJ
 
Re: Re: Confirmation of the 970...

Originally posted by NuVector
You do know that IBM's chips (in the form of G3's) are already in iBooks and other Apple products, right?

Note the press release specifically mentions the Power line of chips.

Unless the G3 is a varient of their Power line, the press release does not concern the G3.

[edit: oops. redundant post. this point has already been made.]
 
POWER-derived in Nintento... Now? Later? Never?

But the Nintendo game consoles don't use a POWER4 derivative, and they're mentioned also.

Good point. Is there some POWER-derived chip in the works for a future Nintendo, though? Maybe that is the reference. Seems like I heard something about that--but it could just have been something about the current PowerPC being used. (Which, I think you're right, is not a POWER 4.)
 
Re: Re: So what are they called ?

Originally posted by Lazy
Unfortunately the 970 systems are going to be named "Power Mac Extreme".

Jep, thats my best vote ,too.
comes in handy with airport extreme, and the future iPodExtreme ;)
 
Re: What Nonsense

Originally posted by FijiBoy
How can anyone take this claim seriously? Apple runs a "just-in-time" manufacturing process with one of the industry's shortest inventory storage times (I believe only Dell is any better). They try not to build computers more than seven days out from sale.

What you say is true: Basically it results in short supplies and very long delivery times whenever a new Product is announced.
All my orders at the applestore took at least 3 weeks to be delivered.
Turns out that i don't order at the applestore anymore, since deliverytimes are just unacceptable.
Apple would be well advised to have a good supply they can deliver when they are announced.

As for Panther - AFAIK the wwdc will see a preview version for all atendees - What does it mean? is Panther ready, or will it be delivered to betatest developers until it is finally released in september?
Can you sell xmacs with Jaguar, using the well known technique of a free upgrade option one Panther is ready?

Imho, Apple needs to sell some new powerfull Computers soon, latest 24.6.
 
Re: Re: Re: What Nonsense

Originally posted by NuVector
This also how Dell keeps component inventory so low. You have your suppliers stock your warehouse but charge you spot prices for the part as you use them, not when they are shipped.

Ah, I wasn't aware it was common practice. Very convenient for OEMs, but must be a pain for component manufacterers!!

Mike.
 
Anyone remember Steve saying "Its the Year of the Laptop!", not year of the PowerMac. I don't think we will see any 970's till the end of the year. Just my 2c (oh thats right we got rid of 2c in Australia so its my 5c)
Go ahead Apple prove me wrong.... :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by WasteGate
Anyone remember Steve saying "Its the Year of the Laptop!", not year of the PowerMac. I don't think we will see any 970's till the end of the year. Just my 2c (oh thats right we got rid of 2c in Australia so its my 5c)
Go ahead Apple prove me wrong.... :rolleyes:

Apple has to put a faster chip in the powermac now! It doesn't matter where it comes from, as long as its a fast chip. If they don't, sales will slide even closer to 0% (powermac sales not market share). Apple has no choice but to bring something out to compete against intels speed. Currently, the powermac doesn't compete! There's no time left. They've limped along for threee years now. People are getting tired of it (hence - super low powermac sales).
 
Originally posted by WasteGate
Anyone remember Steve saying "Its the Year of the Laptop!"

Argh. One more time: the "year of the laptop" is marketing-speak for "our desktops suck". Steve made that statement in January. According to the rumors, it was a few months later that IBM found themselves well ahead of schedule on PPC 970 production. If that's true, there is no way in hell Apple will hold off releasing new towers because they've decided they only want to sell laptops this year.
 
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