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A Song of Fire and Ice (Book Series, GRR Martin)

Huntn

Huntn

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
To spare those not invested in the books... ;)

I feel so gratified I'm reading the book, just completed Dance of Dragons Chapter 7, "Jon". After the recent dismal season finale, this was uplifting, satisfying, and outstanding... for now.

He just had Janos Slynt dragged out into the yard and personally cut off his head off with Longclaw after Slynt refused a direct order. How ironic after they had Slynt be the first to stab Jon in the show.

It was great! :):)
 
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I think since this is about the book to avoid spoiling the tv show thread, you can skip the spoiler tags here.

I only remembered John being stabbed in the book, and refused to believe he died. Either way...they didn't burn the body.

Annnnnnd...the book is no longer relevant in the grand scheme since they've gone so far off the rails.
 
AlliFlowers said:
I think since this is about the book to avoid spoiling the tv show thread, you can skip the spoiler tags here.

I only remembered John being stabbed in the book, and refused to believe he died. Either way...they didn't burn the body.

Annnnnnd...the book is no longer relevant in the grand scheme since they've gone so far off the rails.
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Well, not really. They went a bit off script but the main plot points are still there.

1. Jon Snow is dead or dying at the wall. Melisandre is there.
2. Stannis is dead and his army was routed by the Boltons as per Ramsay's letter to Jon.
3. Cersei has been hardened to her quest for power and has Robert Strong in the Kingsguard.
4. Danerys is riding her dragon and her new Khalasar has arrived.
5. The wildlings and many of the Night's Watch were routed in a battle at Hardhome.
6. Sam and Gilly and the baby are on their way to Oldtown.
7. The Martells are scheming.
 
Now, I know that Game of Thrones has made a wonderful habit of killing off major characters, sometimes very unexpectedly.

However, does anyone really believe that Jon Snow will not be around until the very end?
 
I just noticed there was a similar thread started back in 2007 with 15 replies before going stale. I have no problem if these two threads were to be combined...

AlliFlowers said:
I think since this is about the book to avoid spoiling the tv show thread, you can skip the spoiler tags here.

I only remembered John being stabbed in the book, and refused to believe he died. Either way...they didn't burn the body.

Annnnnnd...the book is no longer relevant in the grand scheme since they've gone so far off the rails.
Click to expand...

There are people reading the books that I imagine will appreciate the spoilers, especially after the next book is released. Besides spoilers are easy to view now. You just have to decide if you want to see them. Secondly as I told my wife, it's the show that is no longer relevant. :p

Chundles said:
Well, not really. They went a bit off script but the main plot points are still there.

1. Jon Snow is dead or dying at the wall. Melisandre is there.
2. Stannis is dead and his army was routed by the Boltons as per Ramsay's letter to Jon.
3. Cersei has been hardened to her quest for power and has Robert Strong in the Kingsguard.
4. Danerys is riding her dragon and her new Khalasar has arrived.
5. The wildlings and many of the Night's Watch were routed in a battle at Hardhome.
6. Sam and Gilly and the baby are on their way to Oldtown.
7. The Martells are scheming.
Click to expand...

I suspect the dreams and failures of King Stannis will be more enjoyable to read about.

Scepticalscribe said:
Now, I know that Game of Thrones has made a wonderful habit of killing off major characters, sometimes very unexpectedly.

However, does anyone really believe that Jon Snow will not be around until the very end?
Click to expand...

I've not read the description in the book, but visually in the show he received what would be described as mortal wounds that in my impression would require magic intervention to survive. I have no clue. :)
 
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Huntn said:
There are people reading the books that I imagine will appreciate the spoilers, especially after the next book is released. Besides spoilers are easy to view now. You just have to decide if you want to see them. Secondly as I told my wife, it's the show that is no longer relevant. :p



I suspect the dreams and failures of King Stannis will be more enjoyable to read about.



I've not read the description in the book, but visually in the show he received what would be described as mortal wounds that in my impression would require magic intervention to survive. I have no clue. :)
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I suspect that the mystery of his birth will be important to the eventual resolution of the story.

To be honest, I'll be astounded if he is killed off and I would expect his survival to come about through some sort of agency, magical or not.
 
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Huntn said:
There are people reading the books that I imagine will appreciate the spoilers, especially after the next book is released. Besides spoilers are easy to view now. You just have to decide if you want to see them. Secondly as I told my wife, it's the show that is no longer relevant. :p
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You mean the books that may never see the light of day? <sigh>
 
From the casting options released recently, it looks very likely like the Grand Northern Conspiracy is about to play out in a major way. It looks like they're looking for Manderly and possibly a recast of the GreatJon Umber or Hugo Wull. There also seems to be a chance they might be casting Arthur Dayne and the legendary Sword of the Morning as they're looking for the best swordsman in Europe and he wields a famous Westerosi sword.

Also, Kit Harrington has been spotted in Belfast. His non and off girlfriend Rose was there for a part in either a tv show or movie or stage performance. Also, keep in mind, Kit Harington has NOOOOOOOO moral qualms about lying to fans, as he categorically said the cave scene was never going to happen.
 
I don't think Jon is dead. Why would Melisandre return to Castle Black? In addition the speculations about his true heritage, that he is the embodiment of the book series title and so on... it just can't be.
 
happycadaver said:
I don't think Jon is dead. Why would Melisandre return to Castle Black? In addition the speculations about his true heritage, that he is the embodiment of the book series title and so on... it just can't be.
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"All that time I was gone, it was as if I went to sleep for year. And when I woke up, the world's fallen apart."

Jon Snow will be resurrected in the season finale of Season 6. Last scene of the episode. Last chapter of Winds of Winter.
 
happycadaver said:
I don't think Jon is dead. Why would Melisandre return to Castle Black? In addition the speculations about his true heritage, that he is the embodiment of the book series title and so on... it just can't be.
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Good ole live life to the fullest Melisandre. :D Carice van Houten has brought this character to life with a flare! What I don't get is how she could possibly not see this in the flames, unless it's part of a complicated plan the Lord of Light has hatched.

Ok, I've not read it in the book yet, so I'll be looking for the reason as to why a sizable portion of Stannis's forces desert him. It's not cause he burned his kid. I think I know that much. If you answer this question please use the spoiler tag. I won't read it, lol, until I'm finished with that part of the book. :)

Game-of-Thrones-Season-4-Episode-7-Melisandre.jpg
 
Why Tyrion is one of my favorite characters :):
"If we encounter this Lady Korra, I will just slip into a skirt and say that I am Cercei, the famous bearded beauty of King's Landing."

AlliFlowers said:
I interpreted the book as Melisandre had made an error in reading the flames and had backed the wrong king.
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Is this about post #14?? Lol, I learned a lesson, you can't reply to a post with a spoiler tag and avoid seeing the spoiler! :p Fortunately this was not the spoiler that concerned me. Surely a God can come up with a better way of communicating than through flames... ;)
 
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Huntn said:
Is this about post #14?? Lol, I learned a lesson, you can't reply to a post with a spoiler tag and avoid seeing the spoiler! :p Fortunately this was not the spoiler that concerned me. Surely a God can come up with a better way of communicating than through flames... ;)
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Yea, the spoiler tags have certain limitations.

As always with gods, it's not the way he is communicating, but the way the humans are interpreting him.
 
Since the show has now caught up to the books, I'm finally going to start reading the books. Bought them some time ago for my Kindle but never got around to it.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
Now, I know that Game of Thrones has made a wonderful habit of killing off major characters, sometimes very unexpectedly.

However, does anyone really believe that Jon Snow will not be around until the very end?
Click to expand...

If George keeps that annoying brat Bran "the Broken" Stark kid till the end and kill off a great guy like Lord Snow, I would be extremely pissed. I was pretty upset he killed off the Hound. I like the man, a brutal but brutally honest guy.
 
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Well, not only would I be somewhat miffed (and I agree with you), I think it would render all of the extraordinary speculation about Jon Snow's background moot if he has been killed.

He has that background - which is still not clear although it may be possible to offer an informed guess - for a reason which may be of relevance to how the plot finally pans out.

Besides, Tyrion, Arya, Jon Snow and Daenerys are the four characters that I suspect the audience may be most engaged with.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
Well, not only would I be somewhat miffed (and I agree with you), I think it would render all of the extraordinary speculation about Jon Snow's background moot if he has been killed.

He has that background - which is still not clear although it may be possible to offer an informed guess - for a reason which may be of relevance to how the plot finally pans out.
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My guess is his parentage will be pivotal to the plot. I have my doubts about Ned Stark being his father.o_O Ned is too honest, too honor bound to sire a bastard, IMO. I'm of the opinion that Jon is the blood of dragons.:eek::eek::eek:
 
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Mousse said:
My guess is his parentage will be pivotal to the plot. I have my doubts about Ned Stark being his father.o_O Ned is too honest, too honor bound to sire a bastard, IMO. I'm of the opinion that he is the blood of dragons.:eek::eek::eek:
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Well, for what it is worth, I echo your doubts, - especially about Ned, - as your reading of Ned's character seems spot on. Therefore, I don't actually see him (Jon Snow) as a bastard of Ned's. However, I also suspect that his parentage is absolutely pivotal, and agree with your post. Those are pretty much my thoughts, too.

If I had to speculate - and this does not rank as a spoiler as it has not yet been revealed - I would speculate along the lines of Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister (to whom he was close, and this might offer an explanation as to why he went against his wife's wishes when he insisted on taking Jon in and raising him with his other children) as possibly one candidate for the person who might have been Jon Snow's mother.

Thus, I suspect that he was redeeming a promise made on her deathbed to his sister who extracted it from him under excruciating conditions. And the earlier event that triggered Robert's rebellion might give us clues as to his other parent.

But this - for now - is pure speculation. However, it does beg questions as to why Jon Snow has been - apparently - killed; while other major characters have been killed, I don't see how any of them were pivotal to the plot, in the way Jon Snow yet might be (and, I suspect, will be).
 
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Scepticalscribe said:
If I had to speculate - and this does not rank as a spoiler as it has not yet been revealed - I would speculate along the lines of Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister (to whom he was close, and this might offer an explanation as to why he went against his wife's wishes when he insisted on taking Jon in and raising him with his other children) as possibly one candidate for the person who might have been Jon Snow's mother. And the event that triggered Robert's rebellion might give us clues as to his other parent.
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That's my thoughts exactly.:cool: Ned's dream where he remembered his sister on her deathbed, covered in blood, possibly from giving birth to Jon. Her final words, "Promise me, Ned." I read that to mean her wanting Ned to promise to take care of her son. I think the father is of dragon's blood--not the Mad King, so that leaves only one candidate.;)

The only possible living person who would know is the frog eater who accompanied Ned.
 
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