A Song of Fire and Ice (Book Series, GRR Martin)

[Scepticalscribe]

That's my thoughts exactly. Ned's dream where he remembered his sister on her deathbed, covered in blood, possibly from giving birth to Jon. Her final words, "Promise me, Ned." I read that to mean her wanting Ned to promise to take care of her son. I think the father is of dragon's blood--not the Mad King, so that leaves only one candidate.

The only possible living person who would know is the frog eater who accompanied Ned.

Agreed.

Well, that particular promise - the exact content of which has never been revealed - seems to have haunted (and guided) Ned for the rest of his life. Again, I'd be most surprised if it didn't in some way concern Jon. And, given that, I would be further surprised if some strange other-worldly device did not return Jon in some way for his tryst with destiny later in the series.

Neither Jon's backstory nor his future (unlike every other character - the ones killed invariably had a full backstory) have been sketched in more than the merest of detail, a strange omission for a character to whom so much space and so much emotional investment has been made.

I expect to see more of him in some capacity.

 

[Huntn]

If George keeps that annoying brat Bran "the Broken" Stark kid till the end and kill off a great guy like Lord Snow, I would be extremely pissed. I was pretty upset he killed off the Hound. I like the man, a brutal but brutally honest guy.

I really like the portrayal of The Hound by Rory McCann of Glascow, Scotland. A murderous thug who had a little bit of heart.

 

[Huntn]

Spoiler: Dance of Dragons

I just got to the point where Melisandre burns Mance Raider and it annoyed me that in the book he turns craven, but in the show, he was brave and stoic at his end. I wonder why the producers felt the need for this difference? The goal should be to remain truthful to the books as much as possible, if it can fit into the framework of the show and I see no show-story telling shortcut that would require this alteration.

... Unless they think they are giving the audience, including the book readers a better story.

 

[Khalanad75]

It's possible that they do believe they are giving everyone a better story. I have pretty much given up on the books at this point because I honestly think GRRM isn't going to finish them. I think if anything he will end up being like Robert Jordan and dying before they are finished.

I also don't feel as the last two books held up to the first three. Almost as if GRRM has gotten tired of writing the stories.

As for Jon's heritage.

Pretty sure he is a wolf and a dragon and not by Ned.

 

[Huntn]

It's possible that they do believe they are giving everyone a better story. I have pretty much given up on the books at this point because I honestly think GRRM isn't going to finish them. I think if anything he will end up being like Robert Jordan and dying before they are finished.

I also don't feel as the last two books held up to the first three. Almost as if GRRM has gotten tired of writing the stories.

As for Jon's heritage.

Pretty sure he is a wolf and a dragon and not by Ned.

My impression is that novelists write out an outline of their story describing the major plot points. If there is an issue, it might be now that the show has turned the books side ways, GRRM is slightly losing his mind trying to reconcile the two versions for the future, unless there is no intent to bring them back together. The troublesome thing would be if a movie is planned, I think it would have to be true to the show or there might be reconciliation issues with the audience.

 

[Khalanad75]

My impression is that novelists write out an outline of their story describing the major plot points. If there is an issue, it might be now that the show has turned the books side ways, GRRM is slightly losing his mind trying to reconcile the two versions for the future, unless there is no intent to bring them back together. The troublesome thing would be if a movie is planned, I think it would have to be true to the show or there might be reconciliation issues with the audience.

I could agree that trying to keep the two either separate or tied together could be troublesome. However, that does not account for the amount of time between books 3 and 4 and then again 4 and 5. Those were all out before the show. I have been reading the series since it first came out, so the long years between books has gotten to me.

For one thing, book 5 was supposed to be together with book 4, but supposedly it got too massive and had to be split. Fine, that happens. But if it was just split in two, rewriting of book 5 shouldn't have taken 6 years.

 

[Mousse]

My impression is that novelists write out an outline of their story describing the major plot points. If there is an issue, it might be now that the show has turned the books side ways, GRRM is slightly losing his mind trying to reconcile the two versions for the future, unless there is no intent to bring them back together.

I hope the HBO series forks off and tells a different story than the book.

The ending of the book was already foreshadowed in the 4th book, Feast. Maggy the Frog's prophecy telling Cersei that another queen, younger and more beautiful will cast her down. Gee, I wonder who this younger queen could be? That answer is too, too obvious.

The only mystery is who she's gonna shack up with to form the 3 headed dragon. My money is on her nephew, Jon Snow. No firm idea on who will be the 3rd head, yet.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I hope the HBO series forks off and tells a different story than the book.

The ending of the book was already foreshadowed in the 4th book, Feast. Maggy the Frog's prophecy telling Cersei that another queen, younger and more beautiful will cast her down. Gee, I wonder who this younger queen could be? That answer is too, too obvious.

The only mystery is who she's gonna shack up with to form the 3 headed dragon. My money is on her nephew, Jon Snow. No firm idea on who will be the 3rd head, yet.

Yes, but the unknown question is how she precisely will do that - what manner of coalition will she be in a position to construct when the time comes for her to return to claim some version of her destiny.

We have known that Daenerys Targaryen has been linked with notions of 'destiny' and haunted by the burden of legacies since the first book; despite G R R Martin's penchant for killing off major characters, I have little doubt that she will be there at the end. In her story arc, the interesting thing is the journey, - personal, professional, political, life - not the destination which has been foreshadowed since the very beginning.

Likewise, Jon Snow's ancestry is a key element of how the final story will develop. Of course he was not Ned's offspring (Ned was too honourable, etc) but promises made to Lyanna Stark, (and the precise details of her relationship with Rhaegar have never been really clarified, just sketched) Ned's sister, are a different matter entirely.

As to the third head, well, at this stage, we can but speculate.

 

[Huntn]

I'm finding in Dance with Dragons, there is some very enjoyable reading concerning Prince Targarian, Danaery's nephew in exile, and Quentun Martell, maneuvering to eventually win the affection of the Dragon Queen. I welcome this dynamic because it's better defined and goal oriented versus characters being out and about searching for this and that, someone or making preparations for winter.

 

[Chundles]

I'm finding in Dance with Dragons, there is some very enjoyable reading concerning Prince Targarian, Danaery's nephew in exile, and Quentun Martell, maneuvering to eventually win the affection of the Dragon Queen. I welcome this dynamic because it's better defined and goal oriented versus characters being out and about searching for this and that, someone or making preparations for winter.

You might say Quentin Martell gets a little... hot... under the collar...

 

[Huntn]

You might say Quentin Martell gets a little... hot... under the collar...

Still undetermined how much of this the show has blown off. At the end of last season, I'm curious about this group of people who approach Daenerys after her dragon escape from the fighting pits, would they be Windblown (most likely) or Prince Aegon's group? They look more like the former.

 

[Chundles]

Still undetermined how much of this the show has blown off. At the end of last season, I'm curious about this group of people who approach Daenerys after her dragon escape from the fighting pits, would they be Windblown (most likely) or Prince Aegon's group? They look more like the former.

The giant mob of folks on horses?

That's her previous Khalasar. The group formally loyal to Khal Drogo who she had to flee from after he died.

 

[Huntn]

The giant mob of folks on horses?

That's her previous Khalasar. The group formally loyal to Khal Drogo who she had to flee from after he died.

So I have to wonder if Prince Aegon and The Windblown (Quenten Martell) make appearances next season, or is this just deleted from the story? Thanks for the info!

 

[Chundles]

So I have to wonder if Prince Aegon and The Windblown (Quenten Martell) make appearances next season, or is this just deleted from the story? Thanks for the info!

I very much doubt they'll be in the show.

 

[Huntn]

I very much doubt they'll be in the show.

A great example of how the show has short changed the story.

 

[Chundles]

A great example of how the show has short changed the story.

Eh, there's only so much a budget will allow for. I'm amazed at what they have been able to put in. I don't see it as being "short changed" as much as making the story more efficient to fit within a defined budget and vision. It would take a hell of a lot more money to do the full story plus the audience would move on after we hit season 25 and Dany is just getting to Meereen.

 

[Huntn]

Eh, there's only so much a budget will allow for. I'm amazed at what they have been able to put in. I don't see it as being "short changed" as much as making the story more efficient to fit within a defined budget and vision. It would take a hell of a lot more money to do the full story plus the audience would move on after we hit season 25 and Dany is just getting to Meereen.

I admit, my statement was an idealized feeling, but short changing appears to be the reality.

 

[Mousse]

A great example of how the show has short changed the story.

Don't want to spoil it for you, but they don't play a big role in the overall story. Egg might be one of the dragon's three heads, but I don't get that vibe. I don't think he is gonna be survive The Winds of Winter.

I might be wrong. Huge frakking spoiler if you haven't reach Ch 37 in Dances of Dragons

Spoiler

I had the wrong vibes about Theon Turncloak. I thought would have died after losing Winterfell, yet he still alive.

 

[Huntn]

Don't want to spoil it for you, but they don't play a big role in the overall story. Egg might be one of the dragon's three heads, but I don't get that vibe. I don't think he is gonna be survive The Winds of Winter.

I might be wrong. Huge frakking spoiler if you haven't reach Ch 37 in Dances of Dragons

Spoiler

I had the wrong vibes about Theon Turncloak. I thought would have died after losing Winterfell, yet he still alive.

Thanks for shielding the spoiler, I'm not there yet

 

[Huntn]

Seems like George has a knack for erotic writing (Asha Greyjoy and Qarl). And I am continuously wowed by his descriptive skills in general, painting a scene for my consumption. I am transported there.

She kissed his cheek, padded across Galbart Glover's bed chamber and threw the shutters open. The moon was almost full. The night so clear that she could see the mountains, their peaks crowned with snow. Cold and bleak and inhospitable, but beautiful in the moonlight. Their summits glimmered pale and jagged as a row od sharpened teeth. The foothills and smaller peaks lost in shadow.

This chapter transitions into an outstanding action sequence.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, it is possibly about time that I gave serious consideration to something of a re-read of the entire series.

 

[Huntn]

Well, it is possibly about time that I gave serious consideration to something of a re-read of the entire series.

I'll counter my previous post by saying sometimes the author offers too much info when it comes to describing, (lol), and mentioning too many names that don't matter, but that chapter is the kind of writing I savor in this series.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'll counter my previous post by saying sometimes the author offers too much info when it comes to describing, (lol), and mentioning too many names that don't matter, but that chapter is the kind of writing I savor in this series.

Well, on the recommendations of a number of people - including friends, and a few who dwell here - I read the books a few years ago.

Since then, I have been abroad much of the time, but I have been debating sitting down with them and re-reading - ad savouring them - slowly.

For what it is worth, I like solidly written, well researched stories with string characters and a nice robust narrative.

 

[Huntn]

Well, on the recommendations of a number of people - including friends, and a few who dwell here - I read the books a few years ago.

Since then, I have been abroad much of the time, but I have been debating sitting down with them and re-reading - ad savouring them - slowly.

For what it is worth, I like solidly written, well researched stories with string characters and a nice robust narrative.

Spoiler: Dance With Dragons

A treat when Tyrion discovers he is being taken to Daenery not Cercei, besides him guffawing and covering his mouth as not to get into trouble with Ser Jorah.
-----------
"My business is in the east."
"And what business is that I wonder? Not slaves, the silver queen has put an end to that. She has closed the fighting pits as well, so it can't be a taste for blood. What else could Meereen offer to a Westerosi Knight? Bricks? Olives? Dragons? Ah, there it is." The old woman's smile turned feral. "I have heard it said that the silver queen feeds them with the flesh of infants while she bathes herself in the blood of virgin girls and takes a different lover every night."
"Ser Jorah's mouth had hardened. "The Yunkai'i are pouring poison in your ears. My lady should not believe such filth."

I think I'm going to get agitated when I hit the end of this book and have nothing more Fire and Ice related to consume, for a while.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Spoiler: Dance With Dragons

A treat when Tyrion discovers he is being taken to Daenery not Cercei, besides him guffawing and covering his mouth as not to get into trouble with Ser Jorah.
-----------
"My business is in the east."
"And what business is that I wonder? Not slaves, the silver queen has put an end to that. She has closed the fighting pits as well, so it can't be a taste for blood. What else could Meereen offer to a Westerosi Knight? Bricks? Olives? Dragons? Ah, there it is." The old woman's smile turned feral. "I have heard it said that the silver queen feeds them with the flesh of infants while she bathes herself in the blood of virgin girls and takes a different lover every night."
"Ser Jorah's mouth had hardened. "The Yunkai'i are pouring poison in your ears. My lady should not believe such filth."

I think I'm going to get agitated when I hit the end of this book and have nothing more Fire and Ice related to consume, for a while.

Then, @Huntn, my friend, you (and I) will have to await the publication of the next volume in this saga, The Winds Of Winter. The wait might take some time.

Indeed, I am betraying no secrets if I let you know that this very evening I went to Mr Google to see if there were any recent announcements concerning this matter. There weren't, unfortunately.