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No we thought it was too risky putting you, DP and QoS on the same team along with Twietee - if your going to put the 3 of DP/QoS/mscriv on a team (which could make sense) you can't include Twietee in it as it could be an instant fail (nor can you include Koodauw)
Really? Hmm... that's not what you emphasized before.

We also don't need both DP and QoS on the team to get information about them. Surely it makes more sense to put the one we most trust on the team and check them out.

I'm an agent so I will vote Nay on any team without me on it from now on.

TBH with the way the cards have gone we're going to need a fair amount of luck to win now. We may make it past mission 4 but I'm not particularly hopeful for mission 5 as that requires us to have identified all the spies since we'd need an agent to propose an all agent team.

So my concerns about your proposal are:
It doesn't help clear/find anyone else other than DP/QoS which I agree is useful but:
If we find QoS is a spy we still only have 2 spies found.
If we find DP is a spy we have 3 spies found which gives us a better chance of getting through mission 5.
If you and Twietee are spies we lose in mission 4.
You do mention the if I and tweet are spies that we would lose the mission, but that's not until the very end, almost like an afterthought. Your primary reason for not wanting them on the same team was that it was not needed. Something I agreed with after you made the point. But, now all of a sudden it's just a fine idea and you're going along with it.
 
Really? Hmm... that's not what you emphasized before.


You do mention the if I and tweet are spies that we would lose the mission, but that's not until the very end, almost like an afterthought. Your primary reason for not wanting them on the same team was that it was not needed. Something I agreed with after you made the point. But, now all of a sudden it's just a fine idea and you're going along with it.
I was talking from your point of view - since your claiming to be an agent - why would you then decide to put the two people that you know 1 is a spy together on a team. You were saying it was to use Open Up to clear one of them and I said you don't need both of them on the team to do that and surely if your an agent it makes more sense for you to put the one you most trust on the team and hopefully clear them.

You also omitted the first line of my post where I said your team is identical to Wood's apart from replacing Koodauw with Sythas which was my first concern about it. And yes if your a spy its an instant fail since it includes you and Twietee.
 
The problem with Fenris :))) is that his story contains, as usual, lots of sound logic - you only have a chance to catch him in the details - and that means you really have to have time at your hand (and a calculator :D).

I still would love to know why he would prefer a DP/QoS combination on the mission over a mscriv/DP one though. That action directly contradicts his complete analysis imo. But maybe I'm missing a key element so please help me out, Fenris!
 
The problem with Fenris :))) is that his story contains, as usual, lots of sound logic - you only have a chance to catch him in the details - and that means you really have to have time at your hand (and a calculator :D).

I still would love to know why he would prefer a DP/QoS combination on the mission over a mscriv/DP one though. That action directly contradicts his complete analysis imo. But maybe I'm missing a key element so please help me out, Fenris!
Where have I said I wouldn't consider an mscriv/DP mission? I wouldn't consider it if it also had you on it as that could be instant fail and that's the only teams we've been given that have mscriv and DP on them. We haven't had a chance to consider an mscriv/DP but no Twietee mission - if it had mscriv/DP/me on it I would probably say go ahead depending on who the other 2 were.
 
When did you think about those three scenarios? I guess before you yay'd this team. I think it is strange you didn't lose a word over the fact that the DP/mscriv combo should be the most favorable since it contains minimum one agent. Or did I miss it? I don't think so. You were more involved in discrediting mscriv/twietee.

And I still would love to know why it should be better to leave that one player out that got checked by two different sources super early in the game. It's amazing nobody questions that, and just because Wood is a bad guy doesn't automatically means he lied about mscriv. nor the whole part I'm going to spare you how I interacted with them almost from the start of this game. Or how DP, who is impossible to be under cahoots with mscriv, gave me the eavesdrop. It's just really, really odd to leave that player out and go along with DP and QoS. I'm not going to ask Moyank why she did it, but maybe see a good reason Fenris, since you yay'd it? Are you so sure Moyank is an agent that you don't want the very best odds at this mission?

Anyway, I'll rest my case here. Two agents are not involved means one agent leads (Mo) and two spies are on board (game over) or a spy leads and..well (game over).
 
koodauw/techG/DP

I urge you to nay this proposal. it is one thing to say dp/koodauw or mscriv/twietee shouldn't be on a mission together but another to totally ignore the possibilty that not including at least one of each combo would lead to a guaranteed game over in case they do tell the truth.
 
From Fenris script :

Team Leader: Moyank

Team Members: Fenris, QoS, Sythas, DP, TechGod

Current Votes
  • yay: 3 Queen of Spades, FenrisMoonlight, Sythas
  • nay: 2 twietee, mscriv
Yet to vote: Don't panic, Koodauw, TechGod, WoodNUFC

Voting Log
  • Post 892 Queen of Spades voted for yay
  • Post 893 twietee voted for nay
  • Post 903 mscriv voted for nay
  • Post 906 FenrisMoonlight voted for yay
  • Post 918 Sythas voted for yay
Script Errors & Warnings
Post 898: Ignoring post by non(dead?) player! Moyank24
Post 901: Ignoring post by non(dead?) player! Moyank24
Post 914: No vote found in bolded text - missing alias? 'mscriv's' twietee.914
Post 933: Ignoring post by non(dead?) player! ravenvii
 
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Hmm... is there any way we could get valuable information from how Wood might vote on this? Any ideas? The obvious prediction is that he would nay a successful agent team and yay a successful spy team, but I can't think of any way we could put real trust in it.
 
do we have a deadline?
i'll try to read quickly in between flights, but it's a bitch.

i think after this game i'll have to suspend my participation until this hectic period is over (not to mention vacations are [finally!] coming up)
 
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A little summary of what we actually know about everyone. i.e. not much.

mscriv
Led mission 1 team that succeeded but had at least 1 spy (if mscriv is a spy), 2 spies if mscriv isn't a spy. Gave Establish Confidence to a spy WoodNUFC, Eavesdropped by Twietee who claims mscriv is an agent. 1 of 3 people who could have failed mission 2. Voted success mission 3
Team Choice: Koodauw, WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades

Koodauw
Led mission 2 team that failed and had at least 2 spies (WoodNUFC plus 1 of mscriv, DP, QoS) eavesdropped DP - claims DP is an agent. Voted success mission 1.
Team choice: WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades, Don't panic, mscriv

Don't panic
Led mission 3 team that was no confidenced due to Twietee's eavesdropping of mscriv. Eavesdropped by Koodauw who claims DP is an agent. 1 of 3 people who could have failed mission 2.
Team choice: QoS, Moyank24, FenrisMoonlight, Twietee

Queen of Spades
Led mission 3 team that was voted down. 1 of 3 people who could have failed mission 2. Voted success mission 1
Team choice: mscriv, WoodNUFC, FenrisMoonlight, Twietee

TechGod
Led mission 3 team that failed. WoodNUFC openly failed the team. Wood only spy or clever manipulation?
Team choice: mscriv, WoodNUFC, Twietee, Sythas

WoodNUFC
Led mission 4 team voted down. Known to be spy due to failing mission 3. Established Confidence from mscriv - claims mscriv is an agent.
Team choice: mscriv, Twietee, DP, Koodauw, QoS

Sythas
Led mission 4 team voted down. Voted success mission 3
Team choice: mscriv, Twietee, FenrisMoonlight, DP, TechGod

Moyank24
Never led or been on a team.

FenrisMoonlight
Never led or been on a team.

Twietee

Eavesdropped on mscriv - claims mscriv is an agent. Voted success mission 3.

this is very helpful, thanks
 
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Well that's just mean! :D
what-did-you-say-to-me-why-i-awta-thumb-1.jpg
 
Hmm... is there any way we could get valuable information from how Wood might vote on this? Any ideas? The obvious prediction is that he would nay a successful agent team and yay a successful spy team, but I can't think of any way we could put real trust in it.

he could play the spy or the opposite of the spy or anything in between, just to throw us off.
best just to ignore him entirely :p
 
@twietee I've been thinking over the 3 possibilities ever since mission 2 failed.

I've said many times I think it very likely a spy leader who got establish confidence would give it to a fellow spy. Anything else would immediately out them as a spy. We agree on that?

I always thought that more likely than the Koodauw/DP spy team theory. You clearing mscriv as well it made it unlikely althought still possible but it now required some luck for the spies with you getting eavesdrop to use on mscriv which is why I was then thinking it was the simpler explanation of QoS being a spy.

Finding out for certain Wood is a spy makes it possible that a spy gave it another spy, probability wise its slightly unlikely that an agent would have randomly created that team and given establish confidence to a spy. There is also evidence to suggest possible team orders to Wood to fail mission 3.


Ok - the 3 scenarios again.

DP/Wood/Koodauw spies
Mission 1
mscriv randomly creates a team with 2 or more spies and gave establish confidence to 1 of them ~28.6% probability
He also gave eavesdrop to the other spy on the team who was then able to eavesdrop on a spy and clear him. Haven't calculated the probablity of this but it seems unlikely.

Mission 2
Koodauw chooses to create a team with 2 or more spies on it, and gives under surveillance to one of them

So far this feels unlikely - can continue analyzing it but I've not seen anything that really makes it seem any more likely

QoS/Wood spies
Mission 1
mscriv randomly creates a team with 2 or more spies and gave establish confidence to 1 of them. ~28.6% probability

Mission 2
Kooduaw randomly gives under surveillance to 1 of the spies (50% chance)

The mission 1 team choice is slightly unlikely but everything following from it is plausible. QoS could have failed mission 2 while Wood hid. Wood could have been only spy on mission 3 so forced to vote failure. It kinda explains why QoS and Wood both didn't care which of the two of them got under surveillance - as it just helped them know who to hide.

If its true - it likely that Koodauw and DP are agents (<5% chance of an agent picking 3 spies for the first team). It doesn't prevent mscriv/Twietee also being spies though.

Mission 3.2
QoS team: mscriv, Twietee, WoodNUFC, Fenris - the only difference between this and TechGod's team which only Wood failed is that I'm switched for Sythas. I know I'm an agent so that means

QoS either put a team with just 1 spy Wood on it so the spies would either miss a mission or Wood would have to out himself. @twietee do you think that Is that likely?
Or there is another spy in there and they choose to out Wood and keep the other spy hidden. That other spy would have to be Twietee and/or mscriv. You will of course say it has to be me.

mscriv/Wood/Twietee spies
Mission 1
mscriv picks a team and puts 1 spy on it. When the establish confidence comes out he gives it to the spy to clear himself. Eavesdrop is given where it could be used to out him but Wood has already made sure that no one thinks double clearing mscriv is a good idea so its reasonably safe to do so. Giving establish confidence to a fellow spy is a sensible move and what I'd have done in mscriv's place.

Mission 2

Koodauw randomly puts 1 of the two spies under surveillance (50% chance). QoS didn't care since she was an agent. Wood didn't care since it helped him hide and mscriv vote fail without needing to resort to any additional discussion that may have been noticed.

Mission 3.1
DP gives eavesdrop to Twietee who clears mscriv - mscriv is now the only person cleared by two people. At this point this option looks very unlikely.

Mission 3.3
Wood fails the mission - mscriv is now only cleared by Twietee so the possibility is more likely again.


So to summarize a bit.

In strict order of probability I'd put it as
QoS most likely
mscriv
DP very unlikely.

DP spy scenario being very unlikely combined with the fact if mscriv is a spy DP can't be and if QoS is a spy, its unlikely that DP is makes me think we should trust DP.

QoS team choice counts in her favor as if she's a spy and mscriv/Twietee are telling the truth and are agents it would force Wood to expose himself as a spy. It's more likely if she was a spy that she included a second spy so Wood could hide until needed to vote failure at the end. In which case Twietee has to be the other spy (or she put all 3 spies on her team and mscriv/Twietee are both spies).

Still there's not much to choose between QoS and mscriv possibilities but if mscriv is a spy Twietee definitely is, if QoS is a spy its likely Twietee is. Sorry Twietee.
 

he could play the spy or the opposite of the spy or anything in between, just to throw us off.
best just to ignore him entirely :p

Can we just pretend he's dead like in the WW games and make him post in gray?! :p

Come on, you guys! I just want to play!!

Can't we all be friends? I'm just that friend who happened to not be your friend, but pretended to be your friend so you wouldn't know that I'm not actually your friend after all.
 
koodauw/techG/DP

I urge you to nay this proposal. it is one thing to say dp/koodauw or mscriv/twietee shouldn't be on a mission together but another to totally ignore the possibilty that not including at least one of each combo would lead to a guaranteed game over in case they do tell the truth.
I think your probably right and if that guess is wrong we will have to abort the mission. If its right we're fine.

Unfortunately after analyzing it again, I don't think we have much more chance of producing a 1 spy team if we do take DP/QoS/mscriv as the core of the team. If we nayed this and I choose the team I could take those 3. I would then have to choose 2 more out TechGod, Sythas and Moyank. If mscriv is a spy there's likely 1 spy amongst those 3, if DP a spy likely 1 spy amongst those 2, if QoS a spy 1 or 2 amongst those 3.

At this point I don't think we can get through mission 4 without more information. :(
 

Yea, but if mscriv and me are agents, as we are, we'll definitely lose this one if not even one of us is included (same would be with koodauw and DP). If QoS is an agent, we're not. That's the difference. And you choose to ignore that. No, in fact you even calculate that it's most likely that QoS is a spy :eek: - who do you think are her fellow traitors btw? You must have given that a thought since it's the most likely probablitly - in your very own words - and you yay a crucial mission with her on board an no idea who her comrades could be.

"QoS either put a team with just 1 spy Wood on it so the spies would either miss a mission or Wood would have to out himself. @twietee do you think that Is that likely?" - Not impossible either. I would have been super surprised if her team - regardless of who's on it - would have gone through. You wouldn't?

"Or there is another spy in there and they choose to out Wood and keep the other spy hidden. That other spy would have to be Twietee and/or mscriv. You will of course say it has to be me." Of course I think that a very likely possibility - you are as unclear as almost all the other around here. Your summaries don't change that.
 
Come on, you guys! I just want to play!!

Can't we all be friends? I'm just that friend who happened to not be your friend, but pretended to be your friend so you wouldn't know that I'm not actually your friend after all.
ROFL! Sure - why not join in the fun - tell us your theory on the who the other spies are! :p
 
Yea, but if mscriv and me are agents, as we are, we'll definitely lose this one if not even one of us is included (same would be with koodauw and DP). If QoS is an agent, we're not. That's the difference. And you choose to ignore that. No, in fact you even calculate that it's most likely that QoS is a spy :eek: - who do you think are her fellow traitors btw? You must have given that a thought since it's the most likely probablitly - in your very own words - and you yay a crucial mission with her on board an no idea who her comrades could be.

"QoS either put a team with just 1 spy Wood on it so the spies would either miss a mission or Wood would have to out himself. @twietee do you think that Is that likely?" - Not impossible either. I would have been super surprised if her team - regardless of who's on it - would have gone through. You wouldn't?

"Or there is another spy in there and they choose to out Wood and keep the other spy hidden. That other spy would have to be Twietee and/or mscriv. You will of course say it has to be me." Of course I think that a very likely possibility - you are as unclear as almost all the other around here. Your summaries don't change that.
As I just said the problem is if you take mscriv/DP/QoS as core and the team leader is an agent if QoS is the spy then he's picking 2 people out of 3 where 2 of them are likely spies - unless you or Koodauw is a spy that is telling the truth about mscriv/DP.

None of the possibilities seem likely to give us a good outcome unless someone correctly guesses which of the 3 possibilities is true or we can get more information somehow.
 
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