A11 Bionic Chip in iPhone 8 and iPhone X on Par With 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Outperforms iPad Pro

[thunng8]

I meant in normal use, not a pointless synthetic benchmark.

Care to give examples on how the s8 it is faster in normal use?

I recently did quick a comparison of the a9 in 6s plus with s8 and the 6s plus beat it every test I did.
- video export in premiere clip. Wasn't even close 6s plus was about 50% faster
- develop raw file in Lightroom. Again 6s plus was a lot faster
- load race in needs for speed no limits. Same result 6s was ready to play much earlier.
- did some web benchmarks like kraken and jet stream. The s8 results fell well short of the 2 year old iPhone.

 

[Michael Goff]

Care to give examples on how the s8 it is faster in normal use?

I recently did quick a comparison of the a9 in 6s plus with s8 and the 6s plus beat it every test I did.
- video export in premiere clip. Wasn't even close 6s plus was about 50% faster
- develop raw file in Lightroom. Again 6s plus was a lot faster
- load race in needs for speed no limits. Same result 6s was ready to play much earlier.
- did some web benchmarks like kraken and jet stream. The s8 results fell well short of the 2 year old iPhone.

Let me ask you some questions there.

Did NFS:NL run better on the iPhone? I don't mean start faster, but did the S8 have issues running it where the iPhone didn't?

What does Lightroom have to do with the CPU power? I thought exporting would use the GPU, where this backbench continues to mean nothing.

And that was my poorly worded point at the end of the day. The iPhone has a CPU that is so powerful but means little.

 

[MrX8503]

I meant in normal use, not a pointless synthetic benchmark.

More reflective of real world use than Geekbench.

What does Lightroom have to do with the CPU power? I thought exporting would use the GPU, where this backbench continues to mean nothing.

You're grabbing at straws here. It's called an SoC for a reason.

 

[Michael Goff]

More reflective of real world use than Geekbench.



You're grabbing at straws here. It's called an SoC for a reason.

How is is grabbing at straws when the topic is CPU strength?

 

[name99]

Basically Dan Matt is a silly man.
- The CPU is probably running at 2.6GHz (based on SGEMM number). This is about 10% boost.
- The IPC improvements this time round are indeed about 15%.
- So total is very much like the A7 to A8 transition. And that was hardly the end of Apple's CPU improvements...

I think the main thing to be said about TSMC's 10nm (and probably 7nm) is that Apple and TSMC are barreling into them so fast that they don't have time to optimize for them.
Is this a catastrophe? Not really. Even though power and frequency are not being optimized, density has been dramatically improve (~2x). The extra transistors in turn are being used to give us that 15% IPC boost, higher throughput in the companion cores, Apple's (50% faster) GPU, and the NPU.

What are those companion cores for? Not, IMHO, for boasting to Android owners. Nor for some vague "OSs run lots of threads" BS, the sort of thing spouted by idiots who appear to be unaware of the concept of multitasking. The best hypothesis I have so far is that the companion cores (together with the Apple GPU) can be used as a ray tracing engine. We might see API for this next year, but we probably won't see a UI based on this for another three years or so --- need time to move the hardware to the majority of the population...

The most interesting thing about this CPU is the total reworking of the uncore. The memory controller is SPECTACULAR, superior to anything Intel ships. The separate L2's suggest a future of multiple large cores (which primarily makes sense in the context of desktop [4 to 6 cores?] and server; even for iPad 3 cores + companion is good enough for the near future). Basically to me this looks like the start of Apple's move from "best mobile cores in the world" to "best desktop cores in the world" very soon (and shortly after that, "best server cores in the world" though that step will require new work that Apple hasn't done yet like a spectacular coherent fabric).

For more details you can read my analysis here et seq: (why I believe 2.6GHz, why I believe the companion cores are each worth about a quarter of a full core, and what contributors to IPC appear to have been improved)

https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=171572&curpostid=171572

BTW it's worth noting that on every sub-benchmark now except SGEMM and SFFT, Apple has higher (sometimes substantially higher) IPC than Intel. Both are probably due to Intel having 2xAVX256 whereas Apple has 3xNEON128. (Apple could fix this by adding a 4th NEON unit, like the added a 3rd to the A9, but more likely
- that type of code is best run on the GPU, so they don't really care
- at some point they may implement SVE)

 

[firewood]

How is is grabbing at straws when the topic is CPU strength?

CPU "strength" is meaningless. So are most synthetic benchmarks. What matters is how well an SOC performs for a user's typical applications. If this user used Lightroom a lot, then what portion is done on the bundled GPU and what portion is done on the CPU (probably a significant amount during file access and buffer setup) isn't very relevant in a product comparison.

 

[iop]

I really hate it when they say it's on par with mac book pro. Because it isn't. On macbook pro you can install any software you want (including that made for non-mac operating systems). Moreover, you can write your own code if you have the skill. On iphone you can only buy apps from the app store. All this computing power goes to waste because the ecosystem is tighter than the eye of a needle. So unless you are into mobile gaming you'll be spending money on resources you simply don't use.

PS the idea of iphone/ipad replacing a proper computer is stupid. They did this in Japan and now they are paying the price having an incredibly large number of computer illiterate people.

 

[jdclifford]

Raised the price? It's been at $649 since the 10.5 was released or were you referring to something else?

Here is thread https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...se-does-it-not-drive-you-guys-insane.2066808/

 

[thunng8]

Let me ask you some questions there.

Did NFS:NL run better on the iPhone? I don't mean start faster, but did the S8 have issues running it where the iPhone didn't?

What does Lightroom have to do with the CPU power? I thought exporting would use the GPU, where this backbench continues to mean nothing.

And that was my poorly worded point at the end of the day. The iPhone has a CPU that is so powerful but means little.

S8 runs nfs fine. Just doesn't start as fast.

I don't believe lightroom relies solely on the gpu. Some parts might be CPU and others using metal api. On any case it is faster on the a9.

You do have a point with cpu performance on a phone - for most purposes the s8 performs fine. I also only use lightroom on my phone if I don't have my iPad pro with me.

 

[mi7chy]

S8 runs nfs fine. Just doesn't start as fast.

For games you have to factor in texture and file size. iPhones are upscaled 750p so texture and file sizes will be smaller and load faster.

 

[Michael Goff]

CPU "strength" is meaningless. So are most synthetic benchmarks. What matters is how well an SOC performs for a user's typical applications. If this user used Lightroom a lot, then what portion is done on the bundled GPU and what portion is done on the CPU (probably a significant amount during file access and buffer setup) isn't very relevant in a product comparison.

If the person is using Lightroom a lot, I'd suggest they invest in more than a phone. If they need to do it on a phone, they very much should grab the latest iPhone.

S8 runs nfs fine. Just doesn't start as fast.

I don't believe lightroom relies solely on the gpu. Some parts might be CPU and others using metal api. On any case it is faster on the a9.

You do have a point with cpu performance on a phone - for most purposes the s8 performs fine. I also only use lightroom on my phone if I don't have my iPad pro with me.

And that's my main point. A super powerful CPU does nothing and we should probably stop talking about pointless numbers in some weird dick measuring.

Also that Apple has pushed their System on a Chip into "pointless fast territory while the software needs to catch up.

 

[thunng8]

If the person is using Lightroom a lot, I'd suggest they invest in more than a phone. If they need to do it on a phone, they very much should grab the latest iPhone.



And that's my main point. A super powerful CPU does nothing and we should probably stop talking about pointless numbers in some weird dick measuring.

Also that Apple has pushed their System on a Chip into "pointless fast territory while the software needs to catch up.

But the counterpoint is that it extends the longevity of the device if it was released with a fast CPU/GPU. Software requirements is increasing. I feel no need to upgrade my 6s plus because it had the best in class cpu at launch (same for a11 today). But an equivalent snapdragon CPU from 2015 (snapdragon 810) might feel really old/slow.

 

[Rob_2811]

While I agree you couldn't take the A11 chip as is and place it into a macbook/iMac platform. I don't think its wrong to say a version of the A11 (AXX) chip optimized for this platform couldn't drive full MacOS. Microsoft is already testing full Windows 10 on an ARM processor platform. Not a crippled version of Windows like RT but a full blown version. Technically it is not impossible.

No, its just very very pointless.

That said so is trying to convince people that the iPad is a viable computer for anybody other than a handful of people who have a workflow that can be satisfied using mobile apps whilst trying your best to ignore your actual desktop class platform so I wouldn't completely rule it out from Apple.

 

[Michael Goff]

But the counterpoint is that it extends the longevity of the device if it was released with a fast CPU/GPU. Software requirements is increasing. I feel no need to upgrade my 6s plus because it had the best in class cpu at launch (same for a11 today). But an equivalent snapdragon CPU from 2015 (snapdragon 810) might feel really old/slow.

Except they aren't always getting higher. Android seems to be getting better for low end hardware with the past couple years. The 810 was a bad chip at the time it came out, for the record.

 

[santaliqueur]

• Please show me Xcode running on an iPhone.
• Show me Excel for iOS running a VBA script.
• Show me Microsoft Access on iOS.
• Show me taking a file from an ordinary USB flash drive, uploading to an iPhone, then copying that file to a network drive
• Show me your file browser in iOS 10 or below

That's just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure many people could add to the list of work that an iPhone either can't do, or is nearly worthless at. You obviously don't use Excel at all, or at least not to any level that I do, because I refuse to even open a spreadsheet on my iPhone, let alone try to actually get any work done in one.

Oh dude, I didn't actually expect you to do exactly as I predicted, but it is amusing that you did.

Classifying a whole bunch of stuff as "real work" and everything else the iPhone can do is not in that category. Just because you need to run Xcode and use MS Access and routinely take files from USB drives and upload to network drives, it must mean that that's the only thing that constitutes real work. I love it when people get condescending and they don't even realize it. Read your comment of "making grocery lists" for more information about how special you think you are. Either you run Xcode or you make grocery lists. No room for anything in between huh?

I can run my small businesses from the iPhone exclusively. I can get real work done on it. I don't run Xcode or any of the other things you mention, but people like you don't realize everyone has different technology needs, even though you think you speak for everyone. What does that make my businesses, are they not real businesses? Your view is so limited. "If it won't work for me, it won't work for anyone". Hilarious.

 

[IG88]

Oh dude, I didn't actually expect you to do exactly as I predicted, but it is amusing that you did.

Classifying a whole bunch of stuff as "real work" and everything else the iPhone can do is not in that category. Just because you need to run Xcode and use MS Access and routinely take files from USB drives and upload to network drives, it must mean that that's the only thing that constitutes real work. I love it when people get condescending and they don't even realize it. Read your comment of "making grocery lists" for more information about how special you think you are. Either you run Xcode or you make grocery lists. No room for anything in between huh?

I can run my small businesses from the iPhone exclusively. I can get real work done on it. I don't run Xcode or any of the other things you mention, but people like you don't realize everyone has different technology needs, even though you think you speak for everyone. What does that make my businesses, are they not real businesses? Your view is so limited. "If it won't work for me, it won't work for anyone". Hilarious.

That's great that you can run your small business from an iPhone. However there are literally millions of people that an iPhone won't come remotely close for doing even day to day work related tasks in. Engineering, programming, 3D modeling, database administration, the list goes on and on. I wasn't the OP for your comment, but I did provide examples that you asked for. You didn't even thank me either.

Do all of your employees solely use iPhones to get their work done?
[doublepost=1505438039][/doublepost]

But the counterpoint is that it extends the longevity of the device if it was released with a fast CPU/GPU. Software requirements is increasing. I feel no need to upgrade my 6s plus because it had the best in class cpu at launch (same for a11 today). But an equivalent snapdragon CPU from 2015 (snapdragon 810) might feel really old/slow.

Agreed. My 6S+ still feels blazing fast. Hopefully these overpowered chips lead to 5 to 6 years of OS updates.

 

[thunng8]

Except they aren't always getting higher. Android seems to be getting better for low end hardware with the past couple years. The 810 was a bad chip at the time it came out, for the record.

I don't agree with that for reasons of software apps.

Games are getting larger with more resources needed.

Photo applications are getting higher quality effects and more sophisticated masking capabilities. More example Affinity photo runs so much better on my iPad pro compared to the iPad air 2 when dealing with large raw files and applying adjustments to photos.

Video editing is moving to 4k resolutions with more cpu/gpu intensive transitions/effects. There is probably many more use cases I haven't mentioned.

 

[santaliqueur]

That's great that you can run your small business from an iPhone. However there are literally millions of people that an iPhone won't come remotely close for doing even day to day work related tasks in.

There are also literally millions of people for whom the iPhone would be perfectly fine doing work. I also missed the point where I said everyone could get real work done on the iPhone. Do you realize I'm not suggesting this? It seems you don't understand.

Engineering, programming, 3D modeling, database administration, the list goes on and on. I wasn't the OP for your comment, but I did provide examples that you asked for. You didn't even thank me either.

I asked it as a joke, because I knew there would be someone who would list a whole bunch of things, classify those things as "real work" and they get to maintain their position of the iPhone being unable to do real work because apparently the things YOU need to do are the only tasks that are real work. Everything else is grocery lists. I didn't expect someone to actually reply with exactly what I jokingly predicted.

Do all of your employees solely use iPhones to get their work done?

Did you miss where I said that I could run my businesses exclusively from the iPhone, and not that I actually do? It seems you don't understand this either.

You do realize that everyone has different needs, right? I have a pickup truck for work, and I carry ladders and other materials in the bed. So that's the only thing that could be a work vehicle? I should tell all those real estate agents that their BMW 3 series vehicles can't be used for their jobs because they can't haul plywood and ladders. I'll also be real condescending when I tell them that.

People have different needs dude.

 

[thunng8]

For games you have to factor in texture and file size. iPhones are upscaled 750p so texture and file sizes will be smaller and load faster.

Not for need for speed. No difference is between s8 and 6s plus. If anything the 6s plus looks to be applying higher AA as there seems to be less 'jaggies' on the car

 

[Michael Goff]

I don't agree with that. Games are getting larger with more resources needed.

Photo applications are getting higher quality effects and more sophisticated masking capabilities. More example Affinity photo runs so much better on my iPad pro compared to the iPad air 2 when dealing with large raw files and applying adjustments to photos.

Video editing is moving to 4k resolutions with more cpu/gpu intensive transitions/effects. There is probably many more use cases I haven't mentioned.

I doubt people are doing hardcore affinity or 4k editing on their phones. Otherwise, you're probably right.

Tablets, on the other hand, need as strong processors as possible.

 

[mi7chy]

Not for need for speed. No difference is between s8 and 6s plus. If anything the 6s plus looks to be applying higher AA as there seems to be less 'jaggies' on the car

Can you share examples? Unless something drastic changed recently Android has always had better texture detail and smoothing than iPhone's 750p upscaling.

 

[MrX8503]

How is is grabbing at straws when the topic is CPU strength?

Ok, the A9's CPU is faster.

 

[Michael Goff]

Ok, the A9's CPU is faster.

Yes, it is. And the CPU strength is mostly pointless.

 

[thunng8]

Can you share examples? Unless something drastic changed recently Android has always had better texture detail and smoothing than iPhone's 750p upscaling.

Why are you bringing up 3 year old games? I don't have an s8 any more but that was my impression when I had it.

BTW nfs is an example of a game that takes full advantage of the resolution available. It all depends on the developer of the game.

It runs at high resolution and AA on the iPad pro. I am pretty sure it is running at or near 2732x2048 res. It is a very large difference when compared with the air 2.

 

[IG88]

There are also literally millions of people for whom the iPhone would be perfectly fine doing work. I also missed the point where I said everyone could get real work done on the iPhone. Do you realize I'm not suggesting this? It seems you don't understand.

I asked it as a joke, because I knew there would be someone who would list a whole bunch of things, classify those things as "real work" and they get to maintain their position of the iPhone being unable to do real work because apparently the things YOU need to do are the only tasks that are real work. Everything else is grocery lists. I didn't expect someone to actually reply with exactly what I jokingly predicted.

Did you miss where I said that I could run my businesses exclusively from the iPhone, and not that I actually do? It seems you don't understand this either.

You do realize that everyone has different needs, right? I have a pickup truck for work, and I carry ladders and other materials in the bed. So that's the only thing that could be a work vehicle? I should tell all those real estate agents that their BMW 3 series vehicles can't be used for their jobs because they can't haul plywood and ladders. I'll also be real condescending when I tell them that.

People have different needs dude.

Ah I see. So you *could* use an iPhone to run your business, but you don't, and the fact that you actively choose not to somehow makes a case that there are millions of people for whom the iPhone would be perfectly fine doing work.

At least I gave you very specific examples of where it won't work. I've yet to see you make any sort of case to backup whatever point that you're trying to make, which so far seems to be the insistence that if you felt like it, you *could* use an iPhone to run your business, but that you simply don't feel like it, or else you would. You win!