A11 Bionic Chip in iPhone 8 and iPhone X on Par With 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Outperforms iPad Pro

[Keirasplace]

Nope there wouldn't be articles about it failing if we remembered what you remembered. Just Google Face ID fail.

Right... Cause clickbait crap doesn't exist in your world huh.
That's why you got those articles.
Same reason there was the whole "bendgate", guess it was a thing too huh... Or not,
the 6 iphones never got changed... And Sold 200M over the next 2-3 years.

Talking **** about Apple is a cottage industry that generates money for those who do it...
Unlike say talking **** about MS... Who the hell cares about that.
[doublepost=1505445162][/doublepost]

I think there are VERY real reasons to be concerned. Nobody knows when that camera comes on, what it records, who has access to the data, etc. We already know what the CIA and NSA are capable of. This, along with Amazon Alexa, are a dream come true for spying and God only knows what else.

except, everyone knows and you're spreading FUD. Same MO as what people were doing when TouchID came out.

 

[darksithpro]

Doesn't really matter how fast the SOC is on the new iPhone, or on the Androids these days. Until the majority of people have a comparable SOC, developers aren't going to make games, or apps that require that type of hardware. It would be like buying a new top of the line nVidia graphics card, only to find out there are no games that take advantage of it yet. Yea, you can run CS GO at 1,000 fps, wile your friends only run at 100. At least you can gloat about the benchmarks.

 

[cgsnipinva]

Doesn't really matter how fast the SOC is on the new iPhone, or on the Androids these days. Until the majority of people have a comparable SOC, developers aren't going to make games, or apps that require that type of hardware. It would be like buying a new top of the line nVidia graphics card, only to find out there are no games that take advantage of it yet. Yea, you can run CS GO at 1,000 fps, wile your friends only run at 100. At least you can gloat about the benchmarks.

In general I would agree with the premise - however you ignore hoe this platform enables development of capabilities and features that people need/want. From a developer perspective - I think the issue is the OS platform versus the SOC -- both chips (Apple and Qualcomm) are ARM processors. However, iOS is the more stable and ubiquitous platform in that most of the iPhone population has the latest version of iOS vice Android which is heavily fragmented and complicated by different screen sizes and hardware capabilities.

What I see in Apple's SOC and GPU efforts is to drive efficiency for iPhone operations and power for the iPad line. Given the direction of iOS (with version 11) -- Apple wants to put more power and capability on that platform.
[doublepost=1505475433][/doublepost]

No, its just very very pointless.

That said so is trying to convince people that the iPad is a viable computer for anybody other than a handful of people who have a workflow that can be satisfied using mobile apps whilst trying your best to ignore your actual desktop class platform so I wouldn't completely rule it out from Apple.

If it is technically possible why would it be pointless. If the processing power is there and at energy savings why would it be pointless? It might be and I am not arguing with you - but at least explain why.

Second -- I am not arguing the use of the iPad in Lieu of a workstation. I have an iMac for my office. But when I go mobile I do not bring a laptop - I use my iPad pro. I take notes on it -- both with OneNote or handwriting in Apple Notes. its better than trying to keep paper. Second while I am on the road I can do a lot of things I do on my desktop -- I am at an executive level so I can review documents/deliverables, I can do my timesheet, my expense reports to include attaching and annotating receipts to support expense reports, sign invoices and mail them to accounting from my iPad Pro. I developed an account strategy on PowerPoint on my iPad Pro while on a plane. I also pulled down an account revenue status report (vs budget) from Cognos and prepared reports for each of my account directors on my iPad Pro.

Now those applications might have been "mobile" -- but they did support "real work" that I got done while on the go using a very light and comfortable form factor.

Now would I do development on an iPad -- no. Would I do testing on one of our new products on an iPad? No not yet. However, it does support a solid portion of my day to day workflow.

 

[kreasonos]

Right... Cause clickbait crap doesn't exist in your world huh.
That's why you got those articles.
Same reason there was the whole "bendgate", guess it was a thing too huh... Or not,
the 6 iphones never got changed... And Sold 200M over the next 2-3 years.

Talking **** about Apple is a cottage industry that generates money for those who do it...
Unlike say talking **** about MS... Who the hell cares about that.
[doublepost=1505445162][/doublepost]

except, everyone knows and you're spreading FUD. Same MO as what people were doing when TouchID came out.

Everyone knows? Ya ok, that's why Al Franken sent a letter to Tim Cook about it huh? Because everyone already knows.

 

[fourthtunz]

I hear you, seems like you have a system going (I do not like mixing OS on work flows). In the end it is whatever works for each person. And true... it is very interesting times. Cheers Mate.

I hear you about mixing workflows. The iPad music apps and iPhone music apps are just another way of making music
Rather than firing up Protools and interface or even one of the keyboard workstations.
It can be creative mindless fun. Not saying its always good music ;(
Cheers!

 

[santaliqueur]

Ah I see. So you *could* use an iPhone to run your business, but you don't

Yes, and if only there was a way for you to understand this before I mentioned it a second time. Perhaps by actually reading my first post? Nah, just keep making your point and hope that I feel the need to repeat my point so you can catch it the second time around.

At least I gave you very specific examples of where it won't work.

Yes, and I have repeatedly acknowledged that there are many cases where it would not and could not work.

I've yet to see you make any sort of case to backup whatever point that you're trying to make

That is because you are waiting for your turn to reply instead of actually reading what I write. Dude, you didn't even understand that I *could* run my businesses from my iPhone, not that I actually do. No wonder you can't see the points I'm making. You're not even caught up on the discussion topics.

Here's a good summary of my points here, since you are unwilling or incapable of being a participant in this conversation. You'd rather just pull in the opposite direction of me, even though you don't even know what my point is.

• Someone said the iPhone cannot be used to get "real work" done
• I said that I can run my two small businesses from the iPhone exclusively, even though I have a MacBook and iPad mini that both make it easier. If necessary, I could be iPhone only for an indefinite amount of time. (Note that I did not say my experience is the same for everyone, and I realize that many businesses could not do this)
• I jokingly predicted that someone would reply with a list of tasks that the iPhone could not do, they would classify these tasks as "real work", and that anything that fell outside those tasks would not qualify as real work.
• You did exactly as I predicted, and even referenced "grocery lists" as a condescending way to make your point. It's either Xcode or mommies making lists apparently.
• I made my point again, and you still fail to hear it, even though you don't even bother to be caught up on the points I'm making.

I claim that FOR ME, the iPhone can be used to get real work done. FOR ME. I'm bolding that twice because you keep missing my points. My businesses don't need Xcode, they don't use very complex spreadsheets. Numbers/Excel is fine for me. The iPhone screen is a little small for those manipulations, but if I only had my iPhone with me, I could get my work done. I buy bigger devices because of bigger screens and a full keyboard.

I realize that there are industries that the iPhone could never be a primary work device for. You seem to think that because I can get my work done, that I am trying to suggest that anyone can get their work done on the iPhone. I'm not sure why you think this, as I never suggested it. Perhaps it's in one of those posts of mine that you didn't bother to comprehend.

Catch up on the conversation. The iPhone is great for me, and a non-starter for you. I get this. You don't.

 

[whtrbt7]

Do benchmarks even mean anything nowadays? Isn’t it all coming down to real life performance? A 6 core chip with a smaller die is outperforming a 4 core chip.... That said, I’m glad I didn’t upgrade to the newest iPad Pro yet because I somehow knew that the new processors for the phones were going to trump the iPad. It makes sense however since Apple sells more iPhones than iPads. Once ARM large products overtake x86 products, maybe we will see a shift again but I think the iPhone form factor is the main reason for why Apple concentrates on it so much.

 

[MrX8503]

Yes, it is. And the CPU strength is mostly pointless.

That's your opinion. It's allowed people to hang on to their devices longer.

 

[Michael Goff]

That's your opinion. It's allowed people to hang on to their devices longer.

No, the price helped people hold onto their devices longer. I know people still using their S3 or S4. Normal people don't like buying phones.

 

[michial]

I’m curious about the geekbench scores between the X and the 8 Plus. Both have the same A11 chip and the same 3GB of RAM but the 8Plus has fewer pixels to process so I assume the scores will be higher. We already know the 8 Plus has at least one more hour of battery than the X. I just preordered my 8 Plus. It’ll be shipped to my house on 9/22. So excited.

 

[Olganech]

Funny how the entire industry is circle jerking each other for "their" impressive new 10 nm CPU which in reality is just a fork of ARM's standard A73 design, which perfectly explains why the top of the line Snapdragon (Qualcomm), Exynos (Samsung) and Kirin (Huawei) are performing nearly identical.

While they are busy praising themselves, Apple just causally drops a monster with more than double the performance per core.

Not that last year's A10 with about 65% more performance per core than current year's competition wasn't already far ahead...
It might not be important for daily tasks anymore, but it's still impressing how Apple is pulling ahead even further year after year.

And yet Apple true to form gimp it by only giving their phones 3GB of RAM.

That is not good future proofing.

 

[Olganech]

What is the point of having a really fast processor when you are limited on RAM.

Does all this power make FB load any quicker or is it still a pig to load.

It is like having a Ferrari but only allowing it to have 1 gallon of fuel.

 

[MrX8503]

No, the price helped people hold onto their devices longer. I know people still using their S3 or S4. Normal people don't like buying phones.

My sister had an S4 for 2years and she said it was unbearable. She's on an iPhone 6 now for 2+ years and she's content with the performance.

The point is the A9 is faster and now you're saying that doesn't matter? Pretty lame if you ask me.

 

[Michael Goff]

My sister had an S4 for 2years and she said it was unbearable. She's on an iPhone 6 now for 2+ years and she's content with the performance.

The point is the A9 is faster and now you're saying that doesn't matter? Pretty lame if you ask me.

And she'd probably be content with an Android phone from the same time period. The only problem the S6 has is the battery even today, it's actually a faster phone than when it came out.

But you missed my point completely. People don't keep phones for prolonged periods of time simply because they run really well but also because changing phones is a pain for most people.

I'm going to try, really hard, to make my point and hope you get it. The A9,10,11 are pointlessly powerful for a phone. And if you need that extra power to deal with updates, it's called poor coding. An Android phone that came out with Lollipop runs really well on Nougat, better than Lollipop.

 

[Rocketman]

Never. The laptop would be reinvented before anyone deprecates it. The iPhone will continue to get amazingly powerful, but it's not replacing laptops, especially in the performance tier that many desire.

Except for the "inconvenient truth" that the speed tests are now on par. The only difference is backward compatibility with x86 and the associated UI.

I have suggested Apple make an appliance like a Mac-Mini (II si) that is able to run Classic/G4, X86 (Win, Linux, OSX), and now iOS and Android and have a top tier interface to transfer data between environments. It might be a relatively short run device like a Mac Pro, but it would be the first device to try to preserve legacy data and applications. Price would be no object for the target market so the required 40% margins would not be a problem.

One could even make a TB3 dongle that supports external cards legacy style.

The R&D department might have to dust off some old projects to accomplish it, but 90% of the work has already been done. Star Trek TNG?

 

[MrX8503]

And she'd probably be content with an Android phone from the same time period. The only problem the S6 has is the battery even today, it's actually a faster phone than when it came out.

But you missed my point completely. People don't keep phones for prolonged periods of time simply because they run really well but also because changing phones is a pain for most people.

I'm going to try, really hard, to make my point and hope you get it. The A9,10,11 are pointlessly powerful for a phone. And if you need that extra power to deal with updates, it's called poor coding. An Android phone that came out with Lollipop runs really well on Nougat, better than Lollipop.

I don't know how you equate "unbearable" with "content". She said she hated how slow the S4 got.

The A9-A11 aren't pointlessly powerful. It's been refuted by many posters here.

 

[theotherphil]

This is what you see. I see it too.

Not sure what this has to do with the performance of the A11 chip??

 

[Michael Goff]

I don't know how you equate "unbearable" with "content". She said she hated how slow the S4 got.

The A9-A11 aren't pointlessly powerful. It's been refuted by many posters here.

How has it been refuted? Simply repeating it isn't changing things. The only way it isn't wasted is if Apple is coding poorly. For the amount of restrictions that mobile OS's have, the iPhone should sail smoothly on a lowly Snapdragon.

 

[Rob_2811]

If it is technically possible why would it be pointless. If the processing power is there and at energy savings why would it be pointless? It might be and I am not arguing with you - but at least explain why.

In short because most of the desktop apps that people use on an X86 machine would have to be re written to run on ARM (almost certainly not going to happen for things like the Creative Suite) or would have to work in emulation.

Microsoft claim they can get full X86 apps like Photoshop to run on ARM in emulation without any perfomance deficits but that remains to be seen and honestly even if they can why bother? What is the benefit to that they run perfectly well now on Intel/AMDs chips.

Second -- I am not arguing the use of the iPad in Lieu of a workstation. I have an iMac for my office. But when I go mobile I do not bring a laptop - I use my iPad pro. I take notes on it -- both with OneNote or handwriting in Apple Notes. its better than trying to keep paper. Second while I am on the road I can do a lot of things I do on my desktop -- I am at an executive level so I can review documents/deliverables, I can do my timesheet, my expense reports to include attaching and annotating receipts to support expense reports, sign invoices and mail them to accounting from my iPad Pro. I developed an account strategy on PowerPoint on my iPad Pro while on a plane. I also pulled down an account revenue status report (vs budget) from Cognos and prepared reports for each of my account directors on my iPad Pro.

Now those applications might have been "mobile" -- but they did support "real work" that I got done while on the go using a very light and comfortable form factor.

Now would I do development on an iPad -- no. Would I do testing on one of our new products on an iPad? No not yet. However, it does support a solid portion of my day to day workflow.

Good on you, I'm not knocking it or trying to belittle what you do with your device. Your work is a valid as anybody elses. Ignore my snark, if it works for you, it works for you.

I am a bit confused with the direction they are taking with the Mac/iPad though. I think that they seem to focus on one to the detriment of the other but the development of the iPad as a productivity platform (software and hardware) hasn't been nearly fast enough for me.

I question where it all ends up anyway, what is the destination with it? To make it a really powerful productivity tool it really needs decent I/O, the right software developments and the right hardware improvements (keyboards/peripherals etc). Go far enough down that rabbit hole and you've practically got a laptop. Thats a lot of jumping through hoops to come up with something they already sell.

 

[a.gomez]

I hear you about mixing workflows. The iPad music apps and iPhone music apps are just another way of making music
Rather than firing up Protools and interface or even one of the keyboard workstations.
It can be creative mindless fun. Not saying its always good music ;(
Cheers!

Yeah, I used to have ArtRage on my ipad-iphone with an Adonis active stylus. Put down some ideas without needing to fire up The wacom. Same - just creative random fun.

 

[thunng8]

I’m curious about the geekbench scores between the X and the 8 Plus. Both have the same A11 chip and the same 3GB of RAM but the 8Plus has fewer pixels to process so I assume the scores will be higher. We already know the 8 Plus has at least one more hour of battery than the X. I just preordered my 8 Plus. It’ll be shipped to my house on 9/22. So excited.

Geekbench is a purely CPU benchmark - resolution play no part. The results will be the same.

 

[cgsnipinva]

In short because most of the desktop apps that people use on an X86 machine would have to be re written to run on ARM (almost certainly not going to happen for things like the Creative Suite) or would have to work in emulation.

Microsoft claim they can get full X86 apps like Photoshop to run on ARM in emulation without any perfomance deficits but that remains to be seen and honestly even if they can why bother? What is the benefit to that they run perfectly well now on Intel/AMDs chips.



Good on you, I'm not knocking it or trying to belittle what you do with your device. Your work is a valid as anybody elses. Ignore my snark, if it works for you, it works for you.

I am a bit confused with the direction they are taking with the Mac/iPad though. I think that they seem to focus on one to the detriment of the other but the development of the iPad as a productivity platform (software and hardware) hasn't been nearly fast enough for me.

I question where it all ends up anyway, what is the destination with it? To make it a really powerful productivity tool it really needs decent I/O, the right software developments and the right hardware improvements (keyboards/peripherals etc). Go far enough down that rabbit hole and you've practically got a laptop. Thats a lot of jumping through hoops to come up with something they already sell.

Overall I agree with your fundamental point - I am not arguing with you.

On your first point - I would argue we saw Apple handle that scenario with the switch from Power Processors to Intel. I agree it would require rewrite of software (apple's and others). Again not an impossible feat -- but it would require that Apple point out and the industry realize the value in doing so.

I would agree that Apple did sleep a little on the Mac -- it seems hard for Apple to focus on more than a couple of things at once. But they did upgrade the Mac line quite well along with substantial under the hood updates and enhancements to MacOS. However, I wish they would set up a separate software division to work in iLife and iWork applications -- making them more powerful and feature filled on both iOS and MacOS. Here my point is the software not the hardware.

With iPad - I think what you see is a mobility platform that could handle 90% of the productivity requirements of a laptop with the mobile app/capabilities you see on a phone on a bigger platform that allows for more efficient use. As I said - I have an iMac workstation that I must have for intensive work like development, data modeling etc. I see the iPad as an eventual laptop replacement not workstation replacement.

 

[Crazy Badger]

Microsoft claim they can get full X86 apps like Photoshop to run on ARM in emulation without any perfomance deficits but that remains to be seen and honestly even if they can why bother? What is the benefit to that they run perfectly well now on Intel/AMDs chips.

Simply to give Apple the control over the development and release cycles. Currently, they are at the mercy of Intel and I'm sure they'd prefer not to be. I also suspect there would be stronger margins on their own chips.

 

[mi7chy]

Nobody cares about toy synthetic benchmarks. Big question is how well does it run Windows 10 or MacOS x86-64.

 

[Michael Goff]

In short because most of the desktop apps that people use on an X86 machine would have to be re written to run on ARM (almost certainly not going to happen for things like the Creative Suite) or would have to work in emulation.

Microsoft claim they can get full X86 apps like Photoshop to run on ARM in emulation without any perfomance deficits but that remains to be seen and honestly even if they can why bother? What is the benefit to that they run perfectly well now on Intel/AMDs chips.



Good on you, I'm not knocking it or trying to belittle what you do with your device. Your work is a valid as anybody elses. Ignore my snark, if it works for you, it works for you.

I am a bit confused with the direction they are taking with the Mac/iPad though. I think that they seem to focus on one to the detriment of the other but the development of the iPad as a productivity platform (software and hardware) hasn't been nearly fast enough for me.

I question where it all ends up anyway, what is the destination with it? To make it a really powerful productivity tool it really needs decent I/O, the right software developments and the right hardware improvements (keyboards/peripherals etc). Go far enough down that rabbit hole and you've practically got a laptop. Thats a lot of jumping through hoops to come up with something they already sell.

Better standby power usage
Built in cellular
Actually give Intel competition