Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business

[ericmooreart]

I'm gonna laugh my @ss off if Adobe goes down for this and Apple ends up consuming Adobe...

Apple won't be laughing if Adobe stops making Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Lightroom and Indesign for the Mac. Advertising agencies and design houses around the world will quickly put everyone on a Dell and call it a day.

 

[Thomas2006]

The least Apple could do is let flash run on their hand held devices UNTIL HTML5 has been adopted by nearly everyone. At least there wouldn't be any inconvenience to anyone in the mean time. Although, Apple could care less about inconveniencing their consumers, it seems.

It is the iPhone/iPad not running Flash that will push developers to move their sites to HTML5. If Flash ran on the iPhone/iPad then developers have no reason to move their sites to HTML5.

Look what Firefox did for the web in general. Microsoft was going to make IE6 the last stand-alone browser and all future versions were going to be OS-specific. Meaning, Windows Vista would have IE7, Windows 7 would have IE8, Windows 8 would have have IE9, etc. Once Firefox came out and people started using it and businesses went from having their sites requiring IE to supporting web standards, Microsoft started releasing stand-alone versions of IE again. Apple/WebKit also had a hand in it but it was Firefox that got the ball rolling and this is what the iPhone/iPad is doing now.

 

[Scott6666]

All I want to say to this whole thing is:

I somehow hope that Adobe won't release CS6 for MacOS, so all designers who use CS have to switch to Windows - and that is a whole lot.
Then Apple finally knows how important Adobe is for them, so Apple finally stop playing silly games with Adobe.

+1

 

[jragosta]

besides craigslist where can you find a cheaper mbp 15 3ghz if not ordering at applestore?
no ebay please
i would like to know
thanks

www.lowendmac.com. Click on the 'deals' tab.

There's no rule that says that you have to pay list price for Macs. While discounting isn't as heavy as for PCs (generally, the more something is treated as a commodity, the more heavily it gets discounted), there are almost always discounts and/or rebates. I almost always save $100-200 on any new Mac I buy.

I wish I had more stories where Apple didn't act like this toward me.

Considering that you brag about not buying Apple products, your alleged experience with Apple is irrelevant.

Apple won't be laughing if Adobe stops making Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Lightroom and Indesign for the Mac. Advertising agencies and design houses around the world will quickly put everyone on a Dell and call it a day.

I wish uninformed morons would stop with this stupid suggestion. Adobe is not going to walk away from 50% of their revenue. They're not stupid.

Incompetent, but not stupid.

 

[X38]

Aside from Flash, Adobe makes a lot of very good stuff that is at the very corps of Apple's systems - Postscript, Display Postscript, pdf...

If Apple irritates Adobe enough, they could really get themselves in trouble. If Apple is serious about wanting Flash dead, then they should just buy Adobe so they can kill Flash once & for all while having full control over their other corps technologies. Given Apple's cash on hand and their relative market valuations it's very doable. On the other hand if they just wait around and keep irritating Adobe, they might drive Adobe into the arms of Google or Microsoft and then Apple would be in a real pickle.

 

[puffnstuff]

It is the iPhone/iPad not running Flash that will push developers to move their sites to HTML5. If Flash ran on the iPhone/iPad then developers have no reason to move their sites to HTML5.

Uh... if html 5 becomes standard a web developer has no choice but to make a website using html 5. It has nothing to do with the iPhone or iPad and everything to do with we are now using html 4 and soon will be moving to html 5.


So you want us to still use tables and iframes because you still have IE6 or maybe something older? No, not how it works we use CSS now and will start using HTML 5 and CSS3 when it becomes standard.

 

[Rocketman]

Frugality is much more gratifying currently than consumption. However if there does happen to be a time where I do decide to purchase an Apple product. It sure as hell isn't going to be at full retail price.

One thing I have noticed is everything is all about you. We are required to hear how you do things, and those that vary from YOUR methods are criticized as overpayers or worse, noobs, by whatever terms and inferences you use.

Why is it not okay with you you live on the same planet as "overpayers" and "noobs", who simply do not agree with you they are overpayers and noobs because they follow this simple truism:

"The more you pay the more it is worth."
Proof:
"The more you choose to pay at the time the more it is worth you you."

Deal with it.



Rocketman

 

[X38]

Aside from Flash, Adobe makes a lot of very good stuff that is at the very corps of Apple's systems - Postscript, Display Postscript, pdf...

If Apple irritates Adobe enough, they could really get themselves in trouble. If Apple is serious about wanting Flash dead, then they should just buy Adobe so they can kill Flash once & for all while having full control over their other corps technologies. Given Apple's cash on hand and their relative market valuations it's very doable. On the other hand if they just wait around and keep irritating Adobe, they might drive Adobe into the arms of Google or Microsoft and then Apple would be in a real pickle.

Apple's current market capitalization is > $200B and their cash on hand is > $40B.
Adobe's current market capitalization is ~ $18.6B
Apple could by them outright without trying. They don't even have to buy it all, just 51%. They could even make a lot of it back by selling off the parts they don't need, like Photoshop.
Or keep Photoshop as a bargaining chip to force MS to keep supporting Office on Mac.
(sorry, edit function was being balky.)

 

[satcomer]

1. Proprietary, like they tried to make Acrobat.
2. A constant security risk.
3. A conveyance for unwanted advertisements.
4. Bloated and slow.
5. Non-standardized.

Thanks goes to Apple for migrating us away from Office, Photoshop, Flash, floppy drives, serial ports, CRT screens, etc. Truly a visionary company.

Your forgot Adobe is hiding cookies on your computer. Luckily OS X users can use Flush.

Adobe is evil.

 

[irnchriz]

The least Apple could do is let flash run on their hand held devices UNTIL HTML5 has been adopted by nearly everyone. At least there wouldn't be any inconvenience to anyone in the mean time. Although, Apple could care less about inconveniencing their consumers, it seems.

This is impossible. Adobe don't have a full version of flash that runs on any mobile yet.

 

[Eidorian]

One thing I have noticed is everything is all about you. We are required to hear how you do things, and those that vary from YOUR methods are criticized as overpayers or worse, noobs, by whatever terms and inferences you use.

Why is it not okay with you you live on the same planet as "overpayers" and "noobs", who simply do not agree with you they are overpayers and noobs because they follow this simple truism:

"The more you pay the more it is worth."
Proof:
"The more you choose to pay at the time the more it is worth you you."

Deal with it.



Rocketman

I hope you enjoy your 15 minutes of fame too. Just like everyone else.

 

[HLdan]

Why are you commenting when you clearly don't understand anything being discussed.

You have zero understanding of customer relations if you think telling all your customers to switch to PCs is going to keep many of them.

You have zero understanding of business if you think it is sane, that Adobe should significantly damage it's own business in retaliation Apple making a sound technical platform decision. That isn't a business decision. It is the decision of a 14 year old girl having a tantrum.

You have zero understanding of Law, if you think Apple maintaining platform integrity is something Adobe can sue over.

You have no understanding of the changes in SDK being discussed if you see this as an attempt to destroy Adobes business.

In short, in a sea of clueless posts, yours deserves some kind of prize.

+1. Although I highlighted one portion of you post, I agree wholeheartedly with the entire post.

 

[c.hilding]

Good, **** Flash. It's high time the web moves on.

I wouldn't be so against flash if it wasn't a buggy, cpu-hogging, closed-source piece of **** that has been behind NUMEROUS serious exploits, allowing viruses to spread very easily just by visiting a webpage that exploits Flash (Google "flash virus exploit" and you get millions of hits).

Besides, they've reveled in being the #1 interactivity technology for the Web for over a decade(!), and now that HTML5 does MOST of what Flash was used for (video and animations), it's time we move on.

This can ONLY be a good thing.

Developers will soon learn how to make games with HTML5, using javascript for the core logic, and a HTML5 Canvas element to draw characters, play sounds, etc.

It can be done, and it WILL be done. Soon enough we'll have gamemaking libraries and the world will fully move on from the buggy, ****** security risk that is Flash.

edit: SPOKE TO SOON! THERE ARE GAME LIBRARIES FOR HTML5 ALREADY! WOW! VIDEO OF QUAKE2 RUNNING IN FULL 3D AND 30+ FPS WITHOUT ANY BROWSER PLUGINS (JUST JAVASCRIPT AND WEBGL)! OR HOW ABOUT A GAME DEVELOPMENT HUB FOR HTML5 DEVELOPERS? Check these out and stop bitching about "OMG NO GAMES WITHOUT FLASH"! ;-)

 

[IntelliUser]

Apple won't be laughing if Adobe stops making Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Lightroom and Indesign for the Mac. Advertising agencies and design houses around the world will quickly put everyone on a Dell and call it a day.

+1, but only if your name is Alice and you live in Wonderland.

 

[Rocketman]

I hope you enjoy your 15 minutes of fame too. Just like everyone else.

I have had well more than my 15 minutes (including broadcast), and it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Tolerance is.

Rocketman

 

[aristotle]

Flash should NEVER be to replace HTML or CSS and this mentality is one reason why Flash sucks and needs to go. To many websites use crappy flash navigation bars that don't need to be there. What function in a flash navigation bar that you can't achieve with HTML, JS, CSS and/or some server-side programming? (Beside Flash itself of course!)

Anytime Flash is used for navigation or content (other than video, games, animated ads) it is being used in a harmful way. For instance, mobile devices are likely to be not compatible. Visually impaired browsers along with text based browsers are no longer functional. If I wanted to use my third mouse click to open the link in a new tab or window, it is doesn't work with flash.

As a professional web developer, no one should EVER use Flash to replace these other languages. This is causing the lack of compatibility because then developers are programming for one group of people, those that have the flash plug-in and systems that can handle the plugin. This is why standards are so important and exact reason for Flash being the unnecessary evil that it is. It doesn't follow any standard and can't be ran natively within any browser. Developers that are using Flash are forcing their audience to do so and in the future will cause the audience to shrink exponentially as there are many people using the internet that doesn't have the need or capability for flash.

And from one developer to another that is complaining about the time spent learning flash... So what... Learn something new and cutting edge and take the market by storm from the beginning. Javascript, HTML, and CSS can do A LOT... And best of all they can be written in a free text editor and debugged in free browsers. There isn't licensing to worry about.

I can't wait for the day when I no longer have to deal with flash at work. I hate it and look down on all the sites using improperly. There are many languages of the past that are not used anymore. We can just throw flash in the history library and say it was a major player in bringing a real need for multimedia standards and the way people use the web.

I think it's time for people to move on to something better...

Speaking as a software developer who has been working in the industry for over a decade, I agree with everything you said. I'm tired of teenagers who do not actually have a job writing software or developing websites coming on here to defend flash when the majority probably pirated their copy of flash anyway.

During my career, I have gone from writing desktop dos applications in Clipper to writing HTML+ Javascript websites, writing perl code that generates HTML on the fly in financial e-commerce websites, writing code in Visual Fox Pro in a windows application/server system, writing T-SQL queries and stored procedures, writing windows services and web services in C#, writing console apps in python which push data to SOAP web services and writing Java console apps which push data to SOAP web services.

Out of the languages listed, I knew Clipper and some HTML+Javascript when I started with the my current employer.

My point is that anyone who chooses a career in development of software and interfaces has to be willing to learn on a continual basis whatever tool or language is needed by their employer to get the current job done. If you cannot adapt, you will eventually lose your job.

You also cannot let your personal preferences for OSes or tools affect your job.

 

[iPhoneConnectio]

Alternatives to Flash for the iPhone/iPod/iPad

I do feel for Adobe, they've been a mainstream form of multimedia for many years (flash games and so forth). But, I'm not sure I can see the point in Adobe Flash on the iPhone when there are other technologies (HTML 5, etc).

As iPhone developers, we have no objection to using the standard provisions by Apple (iPhone OS 3.0/4.0) with XCode. But we were looking forward to having a peek at what Adobe have to offer with regards to exporting flash content to native obj-c - which seems to have been smashed by Apple.

 

[50548]

So remember when I said Adobe was gonna be DEAD in no time, due to Apple's steamrolling initiative? It's happening NOW.

Where are the pundits now, the same pundits that said that Flash wouldn't be affected for at least 5 more years?

Deal with it, Adobe, and sell yourself for some spare change from Apple - it's better than pretending to be MS's younger brother with your stupidly childish corporate attitudes over the last decade.

 

[Master Chief]

I do feel for Adobe, they've been a mainstream form of multimedia for many years (flash games and so forth). But, I'm not sure I can see the point in Adobe Flash on the iPhone when there are other technologies (HTML 5, etc)...

Now read this once again: "the company released a modified developer licensing agreement that appears to prohibit the use of a feature in Adobe's forthcoming Flash Professional CS5 to export Flash content into the native iPhone format.".

This isn't about Flash on the iProduct.

 

[aristotle]

Now read this once again: "the company released a modified developer licensing agreement that appears to prohibit the use of a feature in Adobe's forthcoming Flash Professional CS5 to export Flash content into the native iPhone format.".

This isn't about Flash on the iProduct.

http://devwhy.blogspot.com/2009/10/flash-on-iphone.html

Okay, so I downloaded one of the games that was available, Trading
Stuff, decompressed its IPA and had a look inside. At first
glance it looked like a pretty normal iPhone app. Then I noticed there were no
resources besides a basic MainWindow.nib. No images, no sounds, no
localizations. The next thing I noticed was that the binary was ~13 megabytes,
or approximately ~95% the size of the entire app. That is enormous for a binary.
For reference, compare that to a normal iPhone game, like The Oregon
Trail, which is ~106 megabyte game has ~1 megabyte executable, or
about 1% the size of the app.

What is going on is that the Flash build environment is not using any of the
standard Mac OS X/iPhone OS bundling or localization mechanisms. Instead they
are transforming all their assets into embeddable objects and shoving them
directly into their application's TEXT section. At first glance that might not
seem so bad, but it has a bunch of consequences. It defeats almost any sort of
caching or prefetch logic the OS has for specific data types (like images), and
instead places all of the pressure directly on the VM and paging subsystems.

It is "technically" native but not really the same as a native app developed with the API and bundled correctly with gfx as separate files.

 

[LillDrutten]

Photoshop

Apple play with the fire. Dont know what will happens if adobe shouts down the creative suite for OSX. They kept apple a live for a long time...

 

[firewood]

Okay, so I downloaded one of the games that was available, Trading
Stuff, decompressed its IPA and had a look inside. At first
glance it looked like a pretty normal iPhone app. Then I noticed there were no
resources besides a basic MainWindow.nib. No images, no sounds, no
localizations. The next thing I noticed was that the binary was ~13 megabytes,
or approximately ~95% the size of the entire app. That is enormous for a binary.
For reference, compare that to a normal iPhone game, like The Oregon
Trail, which is ~106 megabyte game has ~1 megabyte executable, or
about 1% the size of the app.

Worse, these type of translated monolithic executables also include link symbols within the exe to a tons of APIs beyond what a game of this type would usually require. Any static analysis to determine what OS support the app really requires would greatly overcommit (and thus waste) OS resources.

 

[str1f3]

The Truth!

Apple play with the fire. Dont know what will happens if adobe shouts down the creative suite for OSX. They kept apple a live for a long time...

I'm sorry but that is naive talk. There has been a lot flame wars going on this thread. Adobe isn't going to remove Mac versions of their products. It doesn't make business sense.

I started a thread on the iPad forums asking for what desktop apps they would want on the iPad. Most wanted Adobe products. Adobe will not dump this potential userbase just for Flash CS. They would sooner create HTML5 dev tools.

People on both sides of this fight have to understand Adobe is a great company. They make the best software in any class they're in but that doesn't mean Flash is good. Too many people, including myself, consider it a performance issue.

I don't hate Adobe but Flash is too much of a problem for system resources and the open web. Considering the battery life it robs, there is also an environment issue at play.

 

[Rocketman]

Apple play with the fire. Dont know what will happens if adobe shouts down the creative suite for OSX. They kept apple a live for a long time...

So, let's say they do. Seriously.

The most recent versions do what they do and have had over a decade of refinements. They still do it just fine and plenty of suppliers sell prior generation hardware to run it on. Heck you can still get the hardware and software for Photoshop 2!

So future capabilities that are facilitated by weird, unsuitable Apple private garden decisions will be served by niche players anyway.

The era of Adobe having a dominant market share for high priced software is over.

Unless . . . . .

The Mac has legs.

or

If Adobe, [gag], gets on board for secret garden development tools.

[/gag]

 

[SactoGuy18]

Apple play with the fire. Dont know what will happens if adobe shouts down the creative suite for OSX. They kept apple a live for a long time...

I'm going to get flamed for this, but Adobe may just pull the plug on Creative Suite for MacOS X in retaliation for Apple not allowing CS5-created iPhone/iPad apps. Such a move would seriously hurt Apple in the short run, since it means Apple will have to massively upgrade Aperture to offer PhotoShop-like functionality and will have to scramble to find a new partner for high-end illustration applications.

It is CS4 that literally drives sales of high-end iMacs and Mac Pros, since many CS4 users run them on Macs. If Adobe says that CS5 will not be available for the Mac, that could hurt high-end Mac sales until Apple releases it own high-end image-processing and illustration programs as replacements, in my humble opinion.