Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business

[Havas]

Here is a another way to look at it (quoted from: http://blog.joa-ebert.com/2010/04/0...tm_campaign=Feed:+je2050+(blog.joa-ebert.com))


Musician: Hey Apple, I just had to accept a new license agreement for your iTunes platform.
Apple: So what? You have been really reading through it?
Musician: It says that I have to use GarageBand if I want to see any music I produce on iTunes.
Apple: Correct.
Musician: Well but I do not like GarageBand. I would like to use Ableton Live.
Apple: Sorry but you are not allowed to use that.
Musician: But it is suited very well for electronic music.
Apple: Use GarageBand then. It is a magical and amazing product!
Musician: Okay fair enough, but what if I would like to play the piano? An instrument I have practiced since more than eight years. I think I am creating better music on a piano than with GarageBand.
Apple: Then you invested your time in the wrong instrument.
Musician: Okay. What about the Audiotool? Can I use it?
Apple: That application does not even run on our devices. Those developers are lazy.
Musician: Errr, okay. So if I use GarageBand I can do what I want?
Apple: No. If you use the F-word in a song for example it won’t be distributed via iTunes.
Musician: You are kidding. Why?
Apple: Because we think that it is not appropriate.
Musician: That must be a joke.
Apple: Not at all. Your child could listen to that song — think about it.
Musician: Well, I think I know best what’s good for my child. Besides, would some parental control system not help here?
Apple: Next question please.
Musician: Okay, assume I use GarageBand and that my content is “appropriate”. Can I be sure it will make it to the iTunes store?
Apple: First we will check it.
Musician: How long will that take?
Apple: Up to two months.
Musician: Are you serious?
Apple: Yes. There is plenty of music being created and we want to filter only whats best for our users.
Musician: And you think you can decide that?
Apple: Sure.
Musician: Okay, let me sum this up quickly: I have to use GarageBand to create any music for iTunes. It has to be “appropriate” and then you let me wait for quite some time to tell me whether you like it or not?
Apple: Now you make it sound like as if we were evil. Google is evil. We are the good guys! And look, the new iPad. Isn’t it beautiful?
Musician: Oh, yeah. I really want that overpriced product. Where can I buy it?
Apple: In our certified Apple retail stores.
Musician: And you will not pull me over this time like you did with the iPhone when you dropped the price dramatically two weeks after its release?
Apple: No. Not exactly. We will release an iPad with a webcam soon. And we will charge $200 extra for that.
[...]

 

[Bytor65]

Heh think what you want, they work, they perform well and they are usable and nice to use/look at so I don't see where the failure is. This just means more people will go to the platform because they will be able to reach a wider audience.

Well Gee. As one of the Flash scripters, who just want to script up some flash and dump it on multiple platforms, that isn't exactly a surprise.

But the better applications are going to be natively developed on every platform, by developers who know the platform.

Cross platform script generated content would just contribute to the crapware load.

 

[HLdan]

Please use the [ strike][/nostrike] tags around the original text so that the original text that you are "fixing" can be seen - your point is lost if the original content is lost.

You're right, I realized that after it was too late. Thanks.

 

[polaris20]

Stupid Apple..



Why would that be funny? It would be another example of Apple's corporate douchery... Adobe's a decent company run by decent people.. Apple isn't.

I disagree. I can't stand Adobe, their horrible customer service, and their pathetic licensing practices, coupled with their broken activation process. I just LOVE sitting on the phone forever trying to figure out why a BRAND NEW box of Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro activated just fine, then decided to deactivate itself 2 weeks later. I then spent over an hour on hold to get it resolved.

If this were a one shot deal, that'd be one thing. But it's happened several times, it's unacceptable, and we've already begun testing alternatives to it.

 

[HLdan]

Dude, people (professionals) care about the software much more than about platform. Graphic designer spending 10 hours per day working in Adobe CS4 does not care about OS or the color of the computer. So, Adobe customers will have no choice but switch to Windows.

WRONG. Then explain why the entire recording industry uses Macs to run Protools when they could just as easily get a cheap ugly Dell box with Windows and run ProTools on it?

 

[cbreak]

Because Apple doesn't expose the APIs for using the hardware decode?

Windows does expose the APIs, so Flash doesn't tax the CPU (and battery) running Windows on an Apple.

What part of "Apple Fail" isn't obvious?

Are you just too dumb to read the documentation or too lazy to stop parroting obvious lies? Just read the docs man!

 

[Rocketman]

Because what you get then can run only on on iPhone. A a developer, you want to write once and be able to run it on many platforms. This is not a new paradigm but a well established software design practice. Apple is trying to leverage its market dominance to prevent people from developing for other platforms but they will fail. This will only make people to write for all other platforms but Apple.

Close but not exactly. Apple tends to lead on "bleeding edge technologies" and try to get people to adopt them and make them an industry standard, so others as well have full access, but Apple's ecosystem has a leg up.

Firewire
Light Peak
Grand Central Dispatch
Bonjour
Apple lossless audio
802.11N
Unibody batteries

Now not all technologies are successful or have good take-up, but very few technologies prevent take-up by interested third parties.

Rocketman

 

[rstansby]

"The people" are often dumb.

HTML5 is a much, much better alternative to Flash for web video. Developers need something to push them out of their comfort zone with Flash.

While, as a user, I wish my iPhone could play Flash, I think that from an industry perspective, iPhone/iPad not using Flash is the best thing that could have happened, because it's going to improve the quality of the web as a whole, and in a few years it'll have been worth it.

I agree 100%

This reminds me of the complaints when the first iMac was released without a floppy drive. Or when Apple stopped using ADB ports. People are unhappy that they can't use a tool they "rely" on, but time marches on, and people quickly adjusted to using USB keys and USB ports. Pretty soon, nobody will miss flash.

 

[jragosta]

The people who say that don't even know what HTML5 is. HTML is a PAGE DESCRIPTION LANGUAGE. It simply cannot be used to create interactive content as Flash can do it.

Then name something that can't be done with html 5 (for the web) or xcode/Objective C (for AppStore).

I've been asking all day and no one seems to be able to point out any of these things that absolutely require Flash. It's pretty clear that they don't exist.

I'm confused.. did they not just release flash 10.1 for android? I am actually asking this. I mean as it is, I know on android you can just browse to a website with flash and have it work.

No. 10.1 is still in beta - and most reports are that it's not that great. AND, it's not a full version of Flash - so many (or most) Flash sites won't work with it, anyway.

As of today, there are NO full Flash mobile devices. None. Apple is not alone in this.

So, in spite of rapidly dropping component costs Apple has not reduced their prices.

This is, of course, nonsense.

The cheapest Mac is $599. Not too long ago, the cheapest Mac you could buy was well over $1 K.

Not to mention, of course, that while Apple does leave their prices unchanged some times, they invariably sell more powerful computers at those price points every year.

Google also is still very much actively promoting Flash, so in reality, the only one who is anti-Flash is Apple, and I've known plenty of people who switched away from the iPhone because it wouldn't support Flash.

You've said this 8 or 10 times - and it's no more true now than the first time I pointed out your error.

First, Google is neutral as far as desktops are concerned. They just introduced an html 5 version of Youtube - so they're supporting both.

Second, Google's mobile platform (Android) does not currently support Flash. Supposedly, 10.1 (a limited, and still slow and choppy version) will be out some day, but as of today, Android, like every other mobile device on the planet, has NO full featured Flash.

you and your toy story demo.. Are you kidding me? do you know anything? that thing is nothing more than motion tweens and embedded sound.. come on, if you don't know anything don't open your big mouth. and that's 64% of MOBILE WEB HITS.. not all.. All mobile only makes up 10% of browsing. Apple is nothing compared to every browser out there.

Mobile went from 0% to 10% in just a couple of years - and it continues to grow. Since we're talking about mobile platforms (no one has even remotely suggested removing Flash from desktop systems), that is pretty relevant.

And the Toy Story demo example is obviously relevant, too. It does many of the same things that you keep saying only work in Flash. I've asked at least a dozen times - exactly what does Flash do that can't be done with html 5 (for web pages) or xcode/Objective C (for AppStore apps)? It's really interesting that all the "Flash is essential for the modern Internet" have not been able to give a single example of something that requires Flash.

 

[JediZenMaster]

I agree 100%

This reminds me of the complaints when the first iMac was released without a floppy drive. Or when Apple stopped using ADB ports. People are unhappy that they can't use a tool they "rely" on, but time marches on, and people quickly adjusted to using USB keys and USB ports. Pretty soon, nobody will miss flash.

I Agree. People laughed at the ipod when it came out. People said the iphone would never succeed. And Blockbuster thought that itunes was a flash in the pan as well as they turned their back on streaming video. Companies that don't evolve and rely on on technology will die.

 

[Bruce Oksol]

I agree 100%

This reminds me of the complaints when the first iMac was released without a floppy drive. Or when Apple stopped using ADB ports. People are unhappy that they can't use a tool they "rely" on, but time marches on, and people quickly adjusted to using USB keys and USB ports. Pretty soon, nobody will miss flash.

Great post, agree.

I had no idea it was Flash that caused my laptop to get so hot. I wonder what kind of stress that puts on components.

Had Steve Jobs not gotten rid of Flash I never would have known about this issue. The freedom of the internet. Wonderful.

And I agree with you. No one is going to miss Flash, except for Adobe and a few others, but very few.

 

[echo44]

Again, this plan does NOT include an immediate solution to ALL of the Internet that has Flash all over it. Until Jobs comes up with a plan that allows Apple product users to view the entire Internet *WITHOUT PAYING EXTRA, Jobs doesn't give a damn about the customer but only the AAPL shareholder.

Dude you actually have it backwards! Steve Jobs has a vision on what a users experience should be with Apple products. Anything the company feels will take away from that experience they will not support. Its is apple's right to create their products with as many or as few limitations as they want. You also have the right not to buy any of their products thats the beauty of a free market society. Yet under the direction of Steve Apple has grown from a company on the brink of bankruptcy to the 3rd largest company by market cap in the United Stated. Why? People love their products. Why? The user experience! The iphone accounts for 60% of all smart phone sales and has been on the market for 3 years! The growth of sales is accelerating. Did you notice they are only on one carrier? Do you know why? Don't you think Apple would blow away their sales if they opened up to verizon and sprint? What would be better for stock holders?
The reason Apple hesitates using other carriers is because they do not want to loose control of the user experience such as the ability to use the internet and talk on the phone simultaneously something which can not be achieved on verizon!. Did you also know although in most markets verizon talk services are better than at&T, AT&T has the largest number of wifi access in the world? As far as your comments about total internet access by apple devices your numbers are fictitious try this http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10312296-94.html .
There seems to be some imaginary fairytale Apple is trying to wipe out Adobe. I think the real story is Apple is just trying to provide their users with the best experience using their products based on what they consider the greatest experience and thats why we buy Apple. Yes apple still represents a small share of the PC market and BMW represents a small share of the car market.

 

[ranReloaded]

Yes, really now. The export is or at least was using private APIs which are not allowed to be used by developers who use the official API and Objective-C and it was also loading all of the resources as one large binary chunk from within the executable rather than having distinct resource files which are loaded from within separate files in the application bundle on the fly.

Sound very Adobeish. "Loading all the fonts you will NEVER use... Loading ALL the plugins you don't even know that exist... Just in case!"

 

[albusseverus]

it could harm your business if you don't have a plan — the writing's on the wall


wake up Adobe

 

[LagunaSol]

Adobe's a decent company run by decent people.. Apple isn't.

So, in spite of rapidly dropping component costs Apple has not reduced their prices.

And with 90% market share, Microsoft still charges $320 for a Windows 7 Ultimate disc that costs them a buck to press and ship. Nope, no downward pressure on pricing with increased volume there. But don't let me get in the way of your script...

 

[LagunaSol]

Adobe could actually be in the lead in terms of developing the next set of web-standards based development tools; it astounds me why they don't see that opportunity.

Because a proprietary Flash Web is better business for Adobe than simply peddling development tools for an open standard.

Sad, but true.

 

[smearedblue]

WRONG. Then explain why the entire recording industry uses Macs to run Protools when they could just as easily get a cheap ugly Dell box with Windows and run ProTools on it?

I wouldn't say "WRONG." so surely when you're spouting off nonsense.

I'm a designer & developer. I use my computer 10+ hours a day. I care about software over looks absolutely. That and power, of which any high end pc would suffice. As long as it's optimized for me, I am capable of using whatever os best suits me.

As for the entire recording industry, Mac pros just happen to have higher end hardware such as error checking and correction ram, and enterprise level hard drives. Both very beneficial to machines that can't afford a crash. Also, those, and any other higher end computer parts, are also able to be utilized with practically any other operating system.

 

[Eidorian]

And with 90% market share, Microsoft still charges $320 for a Windows 7 Ultimate disc that costs them a buck to press and ship.

Ever get tired of this one?

 

[kobewankenobi2]

Are you just too dumb to read the documentation or too lazy to stop parroting obvious lies? Just read the docs man!

the dude is a troll
he does not care about facts

 

[LagunaSol]

Ever get tired of this one?

Of countering AidenShaw's endless anti-Apple babble? Yes, it tends to get old...

 

[Eidorian]

Yes, it tends to get old...

Maybe it's time to stop playing.

Otherwise, Apple has done a fine job of getting me not spend any money on their products.

 

[cmaier]

Of countering AidenShaw's endless anti-Apple babble? Yes, it tends to get old...

Eh. What is Aiden's OS of choice? If it doesn't support tcsh out-of-the-box, he's punishing himself enough - just let him rant.

 

[LagunaSol]

Otherwise, Apple has done a fine job of getting me not spend any money on their products.

Dude, anyone who sells products has done a fine job of getting you not to spend any money.

 

[Eidorian]

Dude, anyone who sells products has done a fine job of getting you not to spend any money.

Is that a problem?

"Endearing" doesn't get me to open my wallet anymore like it once did.

 

[smearedblue]

Mobile went from 0% to 10% in just a couple of years - and it continues to grow. Since we're talking about mobile platforms (no one has even remotely suggested removing Flash from desktop systems), that is pretty relevant.

And the Toy Story demo example is obviously relevant, too. It does many of the same things that you keep saying only work in Flash. I've asked at least a dozen times - exactly what does Flash do that can't be done with html 5 (for web pages) or xcode/Objective C (for AppStore apps)? It's really interesting that all the "Flash is essential for the modern Internet" have not been able to give a single example of something that requires Flash.

The point is whether or not it's worth it for apple to disgruntle any of their users, including desktop users, just to block flash compiled apps. Last time I checked people build these apps on desktops still. And I personally have lost some respect for apple on this seemingly unneeded low blow. There are already apps in the app store of questionable quality, and I feel like it should be our choice. If it sucks, people won't download it. But I believe there could be some decent flash created apps.

About the differences and examples, https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/9619862/

those are some of the reasons in this very thread. And I mentioned twice, that your example uses very simple coding. It's mostly javascript and css. It's not a viable replacement yet. Period. In the future, I hope it will be and I already have my foot into javascript because it's so similar to as3.