Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business

[JediZenMaster]

HTML 5 IS better. Most Smartphones and even some dumbphone browsers are capable of html 5. Without any type of buggy SW installation. And since HTML 5 is royalty free for the next couple of years. The choice is obvious isnt it?

 

[arkmannj]

This may sound crazy, but could Adobe create and release a plugin to XCode that would allow users to create applications in a similar way to how Flash development works now, then generates the c/C++/Obj.C code. you would still use Xcode to compile, etc. I wonder if Apple would allow something like that even if it were possible ?

 

[fat phil]

Sorry for what must be elementary questions, but how does Adobe make money with Flash? Is it through licensing? All you flash programmers out there, do you have to pay money to Adobe to program in Flash?

They sell the Flash authoring package ($699), and other related technologies such as Flex and Data Services (up to around $30k last time I checked).

You can create Flex Flash apps without the authoring packages for free, but that's not where the bulk of Flash movies come from.

I'm sure there are other revenue streams, but I'm not that interested...

 

[Project]

The iPad/iPhone OS are less than 1/10th of 1% of Internet accessible devices. It is nonsense that these media companies have let Jobs tell them how to run their own websites for the iPad and iPhone. Mac OS X is at less than 5% of the Internet accessible devices. It is completely stupid that everyone is succumbing to this idiot named Steve Jobs. Quite frankly, I really consider him a raving lunatic.

Steve Jobs has the most incredible mind in innovation and technology... what corrupts that mind is the greed of being AAPL shareholder number one. I certainly have to believe that the AAPL Board runs the Apple show and Steve Jobs is just the "Host" of the show, not the truly running brain of the business end.

Steve Jobs is absolutely essential for Apple and its innovation, but the problem is he doesn't offer a solution now for the customer who wants to surf the "real" Internet with Flash enabled. Steve has no tact, and he quite frankly acts crazy half the time. The problem is Steve cannot think like a business LEADER, he either thinks technology or money in his pocket. He doesn't act like a real leader who is a CEO or President of Apple.

I think your percentages are off. Apple ship far more iPhone OS products than Macs.

 

[ValSalva]

Ya know. Had Adobe not purchased Macromedia they wouldn't have this problem right now. It sounds to me like Adobe is trying to blame Apple for it's poor decision on buying Macromedia.

It looked like a good deal when the purchase was made. However Adobe hasn't exactly advanced any of the Macromedia applications significantly. They've either languished or had major problems like Flash. Adobe could be doing very well right now without any of those Macromedia acquisitions.

 

[Speedtoy]

Comments like this are so silly when you consider that, in general, people don't want Apple (based on sales numbers).

What..you mean the fast rising market penetration numbers, or the fast rising sales numbers..or..

Im confused, which numbers are you looking at?


I mean, I can understand if you cant afford a nice toy..but, doesnt mean the rest of the world doesnt want nice toys.

 

[Sometimes Jones]

I was looking forward to CS5 and the Flash
I don't have any programming skills, but I can do a fair amount in Flash, so I was hoping to make some small apps even if just for myself / friends.

Thank God for Apple's move. I certainly don't want apps in the Store that are written by folks with little/no programming skills. Besides the battery/crashing concerns, this was probably one of Apple's concerns. They may be heading off a lot of "cookie-cutter" apps in the App Store.

 

[Stella]

HTML 5 IS better. Most Smartphones and even some dumbphone browsers are capable of html 5. Without any type of buggy SW installation. And since HTML 5 is royalty free for the next couple of years. The choice is obvious isnt it?

HTML5 is always going to be royalty free.

It is the video,H.264, that is going to be royalty free for the next few years.

HTML 5 vs Flash - which is better - depends what your doing. If your going to make a platform independent application then Flash would probably be your better choice. HTML5 does not contain all the functionality Flash has.

The problem with HTML5 is that the most used browser in the world doesn't support HTML5 yet - that being IE, so isn't as good for websites. >60% of your potential visitors won't be able to view the content.

Sure, HTML5 is fine if your targeting iPad and iPhone / Touch users.

 

[fat phil]

This may sound crazy, but could Adobe create and release a plugin to XCode that would allow users to create applications in a similar way to how Flash development works now, then generates the c/C++/Obj.C code. you would still use Xcode to compile, etc. I wonder if Apple would allow something like that even if it were possible ?

I've got something that does something better, called Unity.

 

[jedijoe]

Maybe if Flash didn't suck so much...I wonder if Adobe will ever wake up and go, "Maybe it's us..?"

Agreed. How about Adobe instead of releasing stupid new pointless features into CS5, try CS4.5, pull a Snow Leopard and concentrate on performance.. I sure Adobe developers are capable of this, but I sure the decisions coming from the top say he need to put XYZ super fancy resizing in the product order to sell more copies and have no time for optimizations.

 

[Scottsdale]

You - like many other folks - have confused actual standards with defacto standards.

Let me be very clear on this - Flash is NOT a true standard in any way, shape or form. It only has marginal defacto status due to it's widespread use (and mis-use).

Like it or not, understand it or not, Apple is doing the Internet community a huge favor by sticking a knife into Flash. There's a suitable replacement for Flash, and Apple is demonstrating this via the iPad.

There's a huge portion of the Internet currently held hostage by Flash, which is a proprietary product. Apple is showing that there actually is an alternative.

Letting up on Adobe simply lets Flash hang around for longer. Adobe did themselves absolutely no favors by having a crappy Flash implementation on the Mac - I'd wager that's what ticked Steve off in the first place, plus all of the crappy ports of the other packages. Now they're getting comeuppance, can't be sad about that - they've earned it.

If HTML5 is better than Flash can do that's WONDERFUL. The problem is there is going to be so much downtime the way Steve is going about this. So much time when people cannot even see real websites that use Flash not just for ad but for all sorts of content even navigation. I cannot tell you how many times I went to find a restaurants phone number via the web and once I got into their website I couldn't even navigate to about them. Flash is widely implemented EVERYWHERE.

If Apple gave a damn about its customers, it would provide a SOLUTION RIGHT NOW. That solution would allow us access to Flash websites via an Apple method to play those. On the iPhone OS there is no viewing Flash websites. Flash is good enough for 98% of the web but not Steve Jobs.

The latest reports I read showed that both Flash and HTML5, when having access to h.264, had nearly IDENTICAL results. And HTML5 is a steep learning curve and the whole web already had Flash all over it. Yes, in the long run if HTML5 offers truly better performance, it will be better then... but what about all of the time between now and then??? Don't Apple product users deserve to be taken care of too? How many years will it take for the whole web to be converted? How many BILLIONS of dollars will entrepreneurs and small business owners have to pay to redevelop their websites?

 

[shervieux]

Amen. I can't stand Dreamweaver (I use Coda). And if you've used Photoshop I can't even imagine going to Fireworks... it feels like they got it tossed into a package deal and thought, "We paid for this so we may as well sell it!"

I tried adopting dreamweaver a couple of times (some companies I worked for were using it), plus it had some nice capabilities. then when I found out how bloated the HTML code was that it created, and trying to debug anything for different browsers; I gave up and started writing in straight HTML. I could not see spending all that money for a web editor anyway (I would've had to buy it myself).

Also remember when back in the day when everything was MPG? I am going back to Windows 95 and Windows 98 here. I could just put a link to a file and it would either open windows media player or I could easily embed media player into the website. With embedding media player, it did not matter what platform I was on (my older linux machines could still run it as it was embedded into the website with just an embed type of command) Now that FLV came out, you had to have this special code to create an FLV player and queue up video in a special way. More bloated code. I gave up on it. Now if I want a video, I just upload it to my youtube channel and post a link.

Heck it gets viewed more on youtube, than it being directly in a website anyway. And since ipad / iphone can see youtube videos easily - I really don't care. Youtube accepts MPEG-2 and MPEG-4.

 

[fat phil]

Ya know. Had Adobe not purchased Macromedia they wouldn't have this problem right now. It sounds to me like Adobe is trying to blame Apple for it's poor decision on buying Macromedia.

Yeah. Expensive coffin nails. I suppose you could say Apple's just handing them a hammer...

 

[dingamahoo]

They sell the Flash authoring package ($699), and other related technologies such as Flex and Data Services (up to around $30k last time I checked).

You can create Flex Flash apps without the authoring packages for free, but that's not where the bulk of Flash movies come from.

I'm sure there are other revenue streams, but I'm not that interested...

Thanks.

 

[rlmccormick]

That is quite a statement. If Jobs' influence is over such a small segment then why would you expect a decision like this to destroy Flash?

As far as being stuck with Flash and what the best solution is? I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Open standards is something worth pushing for regardless if there is a little pain involved.

I completely agree with you. Jobs doesn't like Adobe, and that's the whole basis for this nonsense. Jobs is single-handedly making the web standard "Flash" obsolete... and it's sick. Too many people spent years learning Flash, and 98% of the web devices were capable of running Flash a year ago. Jobs and his 1/10th of 1% share for the iPad/iPhone OS are going to destroy a standard. We are going to be stuck with Flash websites for a long long time. It would be much better if Apple offered a solution right now that can read Flash sites if it doesn't want to work with Adobe. This is madness.

 

[batchtaster]

I was always under the impression this was more due to Apple than to Adobe

Well...... you were wrong.

The sooner the proprietary stranglehold of Flash is broken, the better. Seems like Apple was the one to set us free. And, of course, when you whittle it down, the people complaining are the ones who are only thinking about the bottom-line of their business, not about users. The same people who expect people to install Flash to witness the sheer privilege of running their Flash.... stuff. It's not that different than expecting users to run sites in IE. Thank gawd those days are gone. The only difference is they wail about how it's so good (for them) and the plug-in is so free and easy to download, please, won't you just install the plug-in to see my work.... please? I spent hours on it, and it's really really good. Psht. The death-rattle of a dying technology. You'll be joining the COBOL and FORTRAN programmers soon enough. Just, shh... sh... relax and let it happen. You'll be at peace soon. If you struggle, it'll make it worse. Shh....... shhhh.....

BTW, this license change also seems to affect the .NET porting tool, which would appear to be in a similar boat.

 

[baleensavage]

I'm gonna laugh my @ss off if Adobe goes down for this and Apple ends up consuming Adobe...

Even if Flash goes down in flames, Adobe isn't going anywhere. Can we say Photoshop anyone? Or Illustrator or Acrobat? Adobe was around before Flash and will be after. Sure they may see a dent in their income, but they'll just come out with something else. Adobe is the print industry, the graphics industry, the digital art industry. There are other programs digital artists use, but Adobe's products are the linchpin of any commercial art business and that isn't going to change any time soon.

 

[Scottsdale]

I think your percentages are off. Apple ship far more iPhone OS products than Macs.

Internet accessible devices are not just computers, and you have to look at the total number of computers that have been sold and are still running OS X. Those numbers were accurate as of late last year when I read them... I believe them to be fairly accurate today.

So Apple has sold 85m iPhone type products (iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad). How many Macs has it sold over the past say eight years that are running today? You also have to consider how many people don't use their iPhone or iPod Touch for Internet just as an email and phone and app tool.

 

[SiPat]

Apple's updated iPhone Developer Program Licence prohibits the development of apps using "an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool," which would include Adobe's Flash, Sun's Java, or Microsoft's Silverlight/Mono.

So, this isn't just about Flash, but this could be Apple tackling Adobe via the back door.

My take is that Apple is just being careful to ensure that none of these applications have an adverse effect on the iPhone/iPad experience -- I think with time, this restriction will be relaxed IF and when Apple is convinced that these "translated" apps aren't harming the iPhoneOS or the user experience.

 

[ValSalva]

Even if Flash goes down in flames, Adobe isn't going anywhere. Can we say Photoshop anyone? Or Illustrator or Acrobat? Adobe was around before Flash and will be after. Sure they may see a dent in their income, but I'm sure they'll just come out with something else. Adobe is the print industry, the graphics industry, the digital art industry. Sure there are other programs people use, but Adobe's products are the linchpin of any commercial art business and that isn't going to change any time soon.

Agreed. Photoshop alone is an industry unto itself.

 

[*LTD*]

Adobe seems unable to compete or effectively promote its product in the face of a competing standard, and now they're whining.

Oh well. They still have their entire Creative Suite, which everyone and their dog seem to rely on.

Apple is snubbing Flash, not Photoshop.

 

[rlmccormick]

...If Apple gave a damn about its customers, it would provide a SOLUTION RIGHT NOW...

No, if Apple gave a damn about its customers it would not provide a half-baked solution, the performance of which would degrade the battery life of it's mobile devices.

 

[Scottsdale]

That is quite a statement. If Jobs' influence is over such a small segment then why would you expect a decision like this to destroy Flash?

As far as being stuck with Flash and what the best solution is? I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Open standards is something worth pushing for regardless if there is a little pain involved.

I am all for going forward with whatever is best... but until those "solutions" are in place, where does Jobs's plan leave his users? Stuck with no capability to run Flash enabled websites. We're not talking about a few ads, we're talking technologies that make up the web whether we like it or not.

 

[BaronStein]

I hope Flash would crash and burn!!!

 

[complexcommunic]

You know, I used to like flash, but it really does suck. It's about time someone took a stand against it, I think. Its time is over, and it's headed for the garbage bin, just like realone player.
This is HTML 5's time to shine.