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Adobe and Avid Target Final Cut Pro Users With 'Switcher' Discounts
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Adobe Premiere: 64 Bit, integration with DVD and Blu-ray, strong 64 bit encoder, multi core support, native DSLR, tight integration with After Effects and Photoshop, and Audition and the list goes on.
Premiere CS 5.5 is everything Final Cut Pro 7 should have been and far beyond what Final Cut X can do in terms of power and collaborative tools.
I jumped yesterday. The reason we are jumping so rapidly is that Final Cut Studio 3 was in need of a significant update over 2 years ago. Many of us were already working with outdated software (non-multicore, no native DSLR support etc) and were waiting for the upgrade.
Not only is the suite of programs killed (no update DVD Studio Pro, Soundtrack Pro, Color, etc). We needed this stuff in 64 bit, multi-core, enhanced features.
Final Cut X is never going to have real DVD authoring or a full on set of professional audio tools. The compression outputs look anemic as well. Those of us jumping ship NOW were waiting, and Apple didn't come through.
A professional is someone who makes a living with a particular tool. A hobbyist does not.
A professional has their work seen by millions of people. A hobbyist does not.
A professional often works with budgets of projects in excess of hundreds of thousands of dollars. A hobbyist does not.
A professional works with professional actors, sound designers, colorists. A hobbyist does not.
A professional can deliver broadcast specification tape, Blu-ray, downloadable media. A hobbyist does not.
Final Cut X is a hobbyists tool. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
We're not elitist whiners. We know our tools and Final Cut X does not have them nor does it appear that it will ultimately have them. Adobe and Avid have the tools we need today, and are committed to them in the future. Looking back, Apple his killed off features it assumes we don't need and continues to do so.
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So, I went to the Adobe Store to check out this discount.
Full version of Production Premium is $1699
Full version with FCP Discount is $849.50 (50 percent off)
Sounds like a great deal, right? Except any pro video editor will likely own a copy of Creative Suite (1, 2 or 3) anyway. So, what's the price for CS users that want to use the FCP discount?
Upgrade version of Production Premium from CS3 Design Premium is $949
Upgrade version of Production Premium from CS3 Design Premium with the FCP discount is $849 (~11 percent off Adobe retail price)
Upgrade version of Production Premium from CS3 at Amazon.com? $799 (~16% off Adobe retail price)
Not much of a discount unless you've never owned CS before, but you wouldn't know that from all the tech Web sites and blogs covering this "story."
Marketing at its finest.
Full version of Production Premium is $1699
Full version with FCP Discount is $849.50 (50 percent off)
Sounds like a great deal, right? Except any pro video editor will likely own a copy of Creative Suite (1, 2 or 3) anyway. So, what's the price for CS users that want to use the FCP discount?
Upgrade version of Production Premium from CS3 Design Premium is $949
Upgrade version of Production Premium from CS3 Design Premium with the FCP discount is $849 (~11 percent off Adobe retail price)
Upgrade version of Production Premium from CS3 at Amazon.com? $799 (~16% off Adobe retail price)
Not much of a discount unless you've never owned CS before, but you wouldn't know that from all the tech Web sites and blogs covering this "story."
Marketing at its finest.
Apple has hurt their image with pro editors and has a PR problem with new or hobby editors due to the back lash from the pro editors.
That being said, I think both sides are being a bit over the top. I have done pro editing in the past (new job now so have moved on but still work and know pro editors) so I'm not speaking out my a@#!
From the pro side, it is not like FCP7 stopped working. Yes, it would be nice to have an update. Yes, there are problems but if FCP8 came out and didn't fix those problems would you still move to Adobe or Avid? Maybe, maybe not. But no one was "tricked" or "mislead" - this is software and at some point you made the decision to choose FCP over Adobe or Avid. They have no promise to you either and certainly no guarantee they will go on forever.
Apple really messed up by not communicating and working with an audience that helps drive consumer sales. Even if I'm wrong about the consumer sales, it still doesn't help to have such negative press out there for such a small part of your revenue when in a few months you might be launching new hardware and OS software. What is really so difficult to imagine is the fix wouldn't be too difficult to implement. Fix a few of the bugs in FCP7, offer it as an update say FCP7.9 or whatever and KEEP SELLING FCP for the full price.
The real issue here is the film industry is changing with more digital solutions. FCPX DOES address those issues much more than Adobe or Avid currently do from what I hear from other editors based on what they see so far. The problem is they just can't abandon many of the tools they need to sell their services OR that saves them many hours. In the long run, FCPX could do all this but not right now and difficult to imagine it will be able to do all of that in a year but will have to see if Apple is serious about more frequent updates.
There is blood in the water, and no matter how good or bad FCPX is or if editors are over re-acting (whether true or false), these moves by Adobe and Avid are presenting problems for Apple.
That being said, I think both sides are being a bit over the top. I have done pro editing in the past (new job now so have moved on but still work and know pro editors) so I'm not speaking out my a@#!
From the pro side, it is not like FCP7 stopped working. Yes, it would be nice to have an update. Yes, there are problems but if FCP8 came out and didn't fix those problems would you still move to Adobe or Avid? Maybe, maybe not. But no one was "tricked" or "mislead" - this is software and at some point you made the decision to choose FCP over Adobe or Avid. They have no promise to you either and certainly no guarantee they will go on forever.
Apple really messed up by not communicating and working with an audience that helps drive consumer sales. Even if I'm wrong about the consumer sales, it still doesn't help to have such negative press out there for such a small part of your revenue when in a few months you might be launching new hardware and OS software. What is really so difficult to imagine is the fix wouldn't be too difficult to implement. Fix a few of the bugs in FCP7, offer it as an update say FCP7.9 or whatever and KEEP SELLING FCP for the full price.
The real issue here is the film industry is changing with more digital solutions. FCPX DOES address those issues much more than Adobe or Avid currently do from what I hear from other editors based on what they see so far. The problem is they just can't abandon many of the tools they need to sell their services OR that saves them many hours. In the long run, FCPX could do all this but not right now and difficult to imagine it will be able to do all of that in a year but will have to see if Apple is serious about more frequent updates.
There is blood in the water, and no matter how good or bad FCPX is or if editors are over re-acting (whether true or false), these moves by Adobe and Avid are presenting problems for Apple.
Which means: anybody who wants to buy Adobe Production Premium should buy Final Cut Pro X first ($299) to save some money.
Which might increase the business for Final Cut Pro X...
Which means: anybody who wants to buy Adobe Production Premium should buy Final Cut Pro X first ($299) to save some money.
Which might increase the business for Final Cut Pro X...
You don't have to own FCP to actually get the discount.... i have read through all the Ts&Cs and see no mention of requiring to own FCP or provide proof/serial numbers.
All that needs to be done is enter the 'SWITCH' discount code online or ask when you are calling the store or visiting one.
Correct me if I am wrong...
This is just speaking in generalities but Apple is playing catch up in terms of handling tapeless workflows and I don't think FCP X surpasses what Adobe and Avid already have. The background transcoding in FCP X is obviously cool, but losing support for image sequences, RED and ARRI RAW is not, for example. Will those things come back in updates? I assume so. When those updates will happen is anyone's guess though. Like much of the rest of the App it seems like for every cool thing added Apple tossed out something tried and true. I'm not sure why Apple chose to toss the baby out w/the bath water when Adobe and Avid have shown that you can adapt to new workflows w/o blowing up old ones. Time will tell, I guess.
Many editors have been waiting years to upgrade and when Apple finally showed its hand w/FCP X those editors decided that Adobe or Avid might have better solutions. Of course, like many have said, FCP 7 still works just as good as it did before FCP X came out, but what looms over many people's heads is how long do I run my business around dead software before moving on? Epically, like you said, at a time when things are changing rapidly. For example, all the colorists I know that were based around Apple Color have started moving rapidly over to DaVinci Resolve. Many of them were interested in Resolve anyway, but the killing of Color significantly accelerated the migration.
Lethal
Goshy, these FCPX moaner threads don't half go onnnnn... and attract some silly peoples...
Please, when will it pass over? How dull, and recycled...
[EDIT]
No doubt all these self-professed "Pro Editors" gave my post a -3 rating! ^_^
It appears that if you wear sandals, live in California and have a grey beard and designer shirts, and are around 45-60, you consider yourself a "Pro Editor", and take life way too seriously, esp on here.
Please, when will it pass over? How dull, and recycled...
[EDIT]
No doubt all these self-professed "Pro Editors" gave my post a -3 rating! ^_^
It appears that if you wear sandals, live in California and have a grey beard and designer shirts, and are around 45-60, you consider yourself a "Pro Editor", and take life way too seriously, esp on here.
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Brilliant!
When you price FCX plus Automatic duck together (which you need to to get at least near, but not totally, to Avid functionality) you're pretty much at the same price as the new Avid price.
They will get FCX users from this, as there has always been editors on FCP that sit on the fence with the Avid/FCP argument.
When you price FCX plus Automatic duck together (which you need to to get at least near, but not totally, to Avid functionality) you're pretty much at the same price as the new Avid price.
They will get FCX users from this, as there has always been editors on FCP that sit on the fence with the Avid/FCP argument.
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I've been here before. Just like Logic, many users never upgraded to version 8. So you are stuck with the old version forever, like FCPX.
I think the imovie technology is fantastic, specially all the real-time effect etc, etc. However please keep it pro and cut the candy. Consumer market makes more doe for apple.
..."Hey, now everyone can be a pro"... But it doesn't work that way for real?
Apple is a software company so they should still make software. But for anything serious I've always used another brand for that such as Adobe or other. I've always found FCP and motion very annoying and limited; all thrills and no steak, no room to grow.
But that's just me. And now with that said...
Possibly the only way to implement this new imovie techno was to revap FCP completely. In the process... unfortunately... eliminate the ability to load projects made with the previous version. Mostly due to the fact of the different workflow and the way you would use this new FCPX.
Apple's response: "Well, it will be hard at first but they will get used to it"....." They can finish their old projects before upgrading"... "FCPX is really a better, faster and practical way of working"...
They're probably right.
Problem: Too many users are used to the "old way" which makes it hard for companies to be innovative with new versions. I admit that FCP did need a face lift, which hasn't happned in years, but this program should of never been bought by Apple years ago.
We need serious tools. Let the "pros" buy fast machines for real-time editing, let them worry about that stuff, just add better features and PLEASE make the FCP interface look better.
iLife should be totally different then "pro" tools. They shouldn't even remotely look the same. Leave the iLife style like it is. Now keep "Pro Apps" pro. An iLife user should be scared to death if they see a pro app. If that happens we are on the right track.
But it's already done.
I think the imovie technology is fantastic, specially all the real-time effect etc, etc. However please keep it pro and cut the candy. Consumer market makes more doe for apple.
..."Hey, now everyone can be a pro"... But it doesn't work that way for real?
Apple is a software company so they should still make software. But for anything serious I've always used another brand for that such as Adobe or other. I've always found FCP and motion very annoying and limited; all thrills and no steak, no room to grow.
But that's just me. And now with that said...
Possibly the only way to implement this new imovie techno was to revap FCP completely. In the process... unfortunately... eliminate the ability to load projects made with the previous version. Mostly due to the fact of the different workflow and the way you would use this new FCPX.
Apple's response: "Well, it will be hard at first but they will get used to it"....." They can finish their old projects before upgrading"... "FCPX is really a better, faster and practical way of working"...
They're probably right.
Problem: Too many users are used to the "old way" which makes it hard for companies to be innovative with new versions. I admit that FCP did need a face lift, which hasn't happned in years, but this program should of never been bought by Apple years ago.
We need serious tools. Let the "pros" buy fast machines for real-time editing, let them worry about that stuff, just add better features and PLEASE make the FCP interface look better.
iLife should be totally different then "pro" tools. They shouldn't even remotely look the same. Leave the iLife style like it is. Now keep "Pro Apps" pro. An iLife user should be scared to death if they see a pro app. If that happens we are on the right track.
But it's already done.
New road : FCPX : crossroad - stay or leave
I wanted to give FCPX some time before judging.
Because my first impression was not good.
I am not a iMovie-fan (far from it): so you can kinda guess where this is going.
FCPX is pretty fast for a quick (&dirty) edit. It does not feel as a Pro package but as a soccer mom app. I don't have the "feel" of being in control of the effects and in-out point etc etc.
A year ago I already switched from FCExpress to CS5.
My reason at that time: I was doubting the commitment of Apple to FCP product. There were stories about FCP staff being fired and moved to iPad.
Now that FCPX is out... I am starting to doubt Apple - as a whole. They used to make stable computers - but now they crash. They used say " think different", but there is only one train of thought allowed: apple, itunes, a limited set of fileformats (mov mostly). You are not allowed to be and think different anymore. Apple has become the very corporation they set out to fight. They used to spark creativity - but now they have been creative for you.
If they would make a kitchen, the Apple kitchen would only allow you to make some preset meals.
If it is true that Apple is a 100% consumer focused firm now... when will they realize that soccer moms don't need a fast computer for their simple mailing and iphoto-ing. If apple continues on this road... where will it end?
Does anyone dares to by Logic? Tomorrow they might discontinue it.
This is the problem for me.
Can I stick with Apple?
FCPX is buggie. Is a downgrade. Should have been called FCExpress+. It can't export really well. It doesn't save my projects very well.
In it's rise to the top Apple did something really well. But not anymore. They are perfectly willing to release substandard & buggie products.
A lot of marketing gurus name Apple as The example for its commitment to the core vision: challenging the status quo and making leaps forward.
Apple is now in an identity crisis.
I think it is Apple's philosophy that people cannot handle files. Everything is automated and hidden. But i want to name the folders myself, and decide where to put my multi layer photoshop files (which fcpx cant handle), my clips, my audio and where i want to save the .fcpp. All of that: not Allowed anymore.
This "hiding" of files and folders has been the reason for me not to use iphoto. Because it makes it really difficult for me to access my raw photos.
Do you want to switch to Adobe or Avid: this is the moment. I would say: go for it. Perhaps you might even need to switch from mac to pc entirely. Let's not hope so.
I wanted to give FCPX some time before judging.
Because my first impression was not good.
I am not a iMovie-fan (far from it): so you can kinda guess where this is going.
FCPX is pretty fast for a quick (&dirty) edit. It does not feel as a Pro package but as a soccer mom app. I don't have the "feel" of being in control of the effects and in-out point etc etc.
A year ago I already switched from FCExpress to CS5.
My reason at that time: I was doubting the commitment of Apple to FCP product. There were stories about FCP staff being fired and moved to iPad.
Now that FCPX is out... I am starting to doubt Apple - as a whole. They used to make stable computers - but now they crash. They used say " think different", but there is only one train of thought allowed: apple, itunes, a limited set of fileformats (mov mostly). You are not allowed to be and think different anymore. Apple has become the very corporation they set out to fight. They used to spark creativity - but now they have been creative for you.
If they would make a kitchen, the Apple kitchen would only allow you to make some preset meals.
If it is true that Apple is a 100% consumer focused firm now... when will they realize that soccer moms don't need a fast computer for their simple mailing and iphoto-ing. If apple continues on this road... where will it end?
Does anyone dares to by Logic? Tomorrow they might discontinue it.
This is the problem for me.
Can I stick with Apple?
FCPX is buggie. Is a downgrade. Should have been called FCExpress+. It can't export really well. It doesn't save my projects very well.
In it's rise to the top Apple did something really well. But not anymore. They are perfectly willing to release substandard & buggie products.
A lot of marketing gurus name Apple as The example for its commitment to the core vision: challenging the status quo and making leaps forward.
Apple is now in an identity crisis.
I think it is Apple's philosophy that people cannot handle files. Everything is automated and hidden. But i want to name the folders myself, and decide where to put my multi layer photoshop files (which fcpx cant handle), my clips, my audio and where i want to save the .fcpp. All of that: not Allowed anymore.
This "hiding" of files and folders has been the reason for me not to use iphoto. Because it makes it really difficult for me to access my raw photos.
Do you want to switch to Adobe or Avid: this is the moment. I would say: go for it. Perhaps you might even need to switch from mac to pc entirely. Let's not hope so.
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Well said. As someone said in one of these posts ... Apple's 'walled garden' is starting to look more and more like a prison.
They want non-removable batteries and inaccessible hard drives in their computers (even though with a fair amount of effort, I was able to upgrade my iMac hard drive).
Now ... it seems they're big push is going to be making the app store the only place you can get software.
I bought a macbook air 11" because I don't want to be 'walled' in by the ipad. But it does seem that Apple is trying to edge their computers slowly to the point where they're as 'walled in' as the ios devices.
I HATE, HATE, HATE Windows, and still could never imagine switching, but this direction Apple is going is starting to really bother me.
Agreed.
Me and the 3 editors I work with booted up the new Premiere last weekend and starting playing with it.
It wasn't long before we all came to that exact realization: That Premiere IS the FCPx we were hoping for.
The bombshell discovery was that not only does Premiere have FCP7 keyboard shortcuts build in as an option, but that is can also import FCP7 edl's and files.
We're totally sold.
My point is that the Automatic Duck plugin for FCP X only gives you the ability to export OMFs and AAFs. FCP X needs a whole lot more help than that to get "near Avid functionality". Or near Premiere functionality. Or near FCP 7 functionality.
Lethal
Well Apple really screwed the pooch in how they handled this. And Adobe and Avid are smart to try and capitalize on this disruptive change. But the question I have for the professionals here is how will these packages compare in 3 years? Will the coding changes made in FCPX now allow for an amazing tool in 3 years? Are Adobe and Avid in for a world of hurt trying to implement radical technological changes incrementally? Or is the abrupt transition by Apple just too painful a transition?
I for one don't think Apple intends to walk away from the the professional market for the larger prosumer one. My thoughts have been stated in the post below. But only time will tell if Apple's gamble will pay off in the longer run.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1177352/#post12839094
Avid does support ProRes
Um... Avid has supported ProRes (at least on the Mac platform) for some time now. Ever since the release of version 5.
Avid supports nearly any format that can be played in QuickTime. With real-time playback and effects depending on the speed of your drive and power of your machine. Yes, I'm an Avid user. Have been since my company bought an EX3 and 7D. Files playback natively from both devices in MediaComposer
Um... Avid has supported ProRes (at least on the Mac platform) for some time now. Ever since the release of version 5.
Avid supports nearly any format that can be played in QuickTime. With real-time playback and effects depending on the speed of your drive and power of your machine. Yes, I'm an Avid user. Have been since my company bought an EX3 and 7D. Files playback natively from both devices in MediaComposer
I agree! I was meaning the move by Avid is good.I totally agree the combo of FCX and AD which is around the new lower Avid price still is below in spec compared to Avid.
Come on!!!
As a FCE user I could even see this coming. What makes people think FCPX will become the "pro" app of choice in the future, all because Apple says they are listening? The past two years have shown that Apple does not care with their piecemeal updates and such, not only to FCS but other programs.
I'm out in the cold as well. FCE is discontinued. So what choices do I have? I will continue to use the latest version until it no longer serves its purpose. I also have Adobe P. Elements to play around with. Don't care for iMovie 11' at all.
As a FCE user I could even see this coming. What makes people think FCPX will become the "pro" app of choice in the future, all because Apple says they are listening? The past two years have shown that Apple does not care with their piecemeal updates and such, not only to FCS but other programs.
I'm out in the cold as well. FCE is discontinued. So what choices do I have? I will continue to use the latest version until it no longer serves its purpose. I also have Adobe P. Elements to play around with. Don't care for iMovie 11' at all.
Agreed, but..
Yes MANY pros work with actors, light crews, etc. Though I consider myself a pro, except I do most of my work as a videographer/editor taking 3-6 hrs of footage and make music videos. Plus many other jobs. For instance I'm working on a yacht at the moment, I'm the only person, my business. I enjoy working solo. Though one day I hope to also work in a video production company for a more realiable pay checck. IMO a pro gets paid, that simple, of course everyone has a niche.
I hope to get the adobe deal. I do not own many adobe products so a great deal for me.
Also IMO I believe apple is embarrassed with FCX and upgrades will be coming out. Apple is still known as "the graphics computer", I talk to a lot of business people and they still dismiss Apple computers, obviously they know iPhones and iPads. FCX may not be up to par for awhile, I just think it may come to pride...my 2 cents anyway....and my wish.
Good luck to everyone.
Yes MANY pros work with actors, light crews, etc. Though I consider myself a pro, except I do most of my work as a videographer/editor taking 3-6 hrs of footage and make music videos. Plus many other jobs. For instance I'm working on a yacht at the moment, I'm the only person, my business. I enjoy working solo. Though one day I hope to also work in a video production company for a more realiable pay checck. IMO a pro gets paid, that simple, of course everyone has a niche.
I hope to get the adobe deal. I do not own many adobe products so a great deal for me.
Also IMO I believe apple is embarrassed with FCX and upgrades will be coming out. Apple is still known as "the graphics computer", I talk to a lot of business people and they still dismiss Apple computers, obviously they know iPhones and iPads. FCX may not be up to par for awhile, I just think it may come to pride...my 2 cents anyway....and my wish.
Good luck to everyone.