Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Adobe CEO Responds to Steve Jobs' 'Thoughts on Flash'

cocky jeremy said:
A whole 100 apps were created in Flash? That's sooo many. He's right, Adobe/Flash are so important to the App Store. :rolleyes:

Give it up, man. Apple doesn't want Flash, Apple's customers don't want Flash, no one wants Flash. Just kill it off and give it up already. HTML5 FTW. :apple:
Click to expand...

I do, i do, i do. Does it count? :rolleyes:
 
Good points!

daveporter said:
Until someone from Adobe can present a rebuttal as well thought out, logical and understandable and Steve's original memo, they will loose this battle. Steve Jobs has turned the tables on Adobe's media machine this time.

Mr. Nayaran will need to do a lot more than just deny and try to replace blame everywhere but at Adobe's door if he wants to counter Steve's arguments this time. I am looking forward to reading the entire interview when the WSJ publishes it.

If he fails in rebutting Steve, it will be interesting to see what happens to Adobe stock this afternoon and tomorrow. You can bet the only reason Mr. Nayaran is giving an emergency WSJ interview with such haste is the risk of Adobe stock going south immediately. This is essentially a perfect example of "damage control" at its finest.
Click to expand...

As much as some want to call this a tit for tat spat between CEOs, it is NOT.

While Steve's statement was carefully considered and even-handedly expressed, it's as if Nayaran didn't hear what Steve was saying at all.

His stressing the importance of "cross platform" is obviously related to the PC industry, not to the new mobile industry which Apple has indeed created, or at least spawned or triggered. It's as if he's refusing to admit the possibility that Flash's days are numbered, and all he's got at this point is a hopeful statement about it someday arriving in the mobile arena.

He had to say something to try to save face, but by ignoring the realities of Apple's staggering success in the mobile industry, he's only revealing his desperation and trying to justify Flash's existence, even against Apple's now firmly closed door against it.

Flash may have some remaining viability in the PC world, Creative Suite on the Mac has finally been converted to Cocoa which will hopefully sustain it there, and Acrobat seems to be doing pretty well overall. But if Adobe expects to gain a foothold in the mobile market, it should simply leave Flash on the shelf and come out with new tools for HTML5 and with well designed iPhone OS apps.

The Apple iPad is going to be BIG, BIG, BIG, and Adobe would be very foolish not to simply move on from Flash and embrace the iPad market with some great creative tools which it is entirely capable of creating.
 
MorphingDragon said:
Apple's software team has a lot more to look after than a select few design Apps where most of the enhancements were just previous plugins.
Click to expand...

With their focus on mobile apps one would think that iTunes and the App store would at least run a little smoother. iTunes is a bloated, slow beast. As far as I can tell, Apple is focusing on making the mac family media consumption devices. People will have to start going elsewhere to create the media. FCS is getting long in the tooth. Old code, non mac like interface, odd looking save dialog boxes, ugh. It's almost as if it was developed in some dreaded 3rd party framework!

Thin about it, it takes a Linux dev team 6 months to put together a new distro, yet all they're essential doing is repackaging existing software.
Click to expand...

How much cash does Apple have on hand again? Just hire some more people! ;)
 
MorphingDragon said:
Umm, who are you kidding. Apple completely IGNORED Apple in the 90s.

http://thesmallwave.com/adobe-slaps-intelligent-humans-in-the-face
Click to expand...

What does this incoherent crap you linked to has to do with anything?

I remember the 90s, when every creative department was thinking of switching to Windows and there was talk if it was wise for Adobe to spend the resources to develop for the dying Mac platform.

But Steve is lying through his teeth now, blaming Adobe "because Flash is old," whatever this means.

But any half-way intelligent observer can see that Apple is looking for justifications not to allow media or apps from which it doesn't get a cut.

Now it wants all in-advertising for itself too.

No, we are not getting Flash, because Steve knows there are enough suckers to believe every word he utters and to forgo using the full web, for the privilege of browsing mobile sites on the iPad.

I am certain that if we had a headline here tomorrow that Steve is the real Christ, enough idiots will click the "approve" button and will claim that they've seen Him walk on water.
 
SORRY FOR OFFTOPIC,but i'm pretty sure i'll find more answers here than anywhere else lol.
Am I a complete idiot expecting iTunes X to be cocoa?
SORRY again.
 
macUser2007 said:
What does this incoherent crap you linked to has to do with anything?

I remember the 90s, when every creative department was thinking of switching to Windows and there was talk if it was wise for Adobe to spend the resources to develop for the dying Mac platform.
Click to expand...

They ignored them through the 90s, (ZDNet) they ignored them through the turn of the millennia(ZDNet, CNET).

Its been "Steve Jobs Selfish Greed" that is making Adobe twitch and convulse in fear. Adobe has never been on-board with Apple, ever since Windows. Hell, there are Apps which you cant get on Mac OSX. Framemaker (Yes Framemaker) was originally a Mac exclusive then was killed off for Mac OSX completely.

Adobe has always been interested in the LCF, which is Windows.

---

I recently dropped Dreamweaver/Photoshop/Illustrator for Aptana/PixelMaker/Oo_O. My productivity went up!
 
macUser2007 said:
What does this incoherent crap you linked to has to do with anything?

I remember the 90s, when every creative department was thinking of switching to Windows and there was talk if it was wise for Adobe to spend the resources to develop for the dying Mac platform.

But Steve is lying through his teeth now, blaming Adobe "because Flash is old," whatever this means.

But any half-way intelligent observer can see that Apple is looking for justifications not to allow media or apps from which it doesn't get a cut.

Now it wants all in-advertising for itself too.

No, we are not getting Flash, because Steve knows there are enough suckers to believe every word he utters and to forgo using the full web, for the privilege of browsing mobile sites on the iPad.

I am certain that if we had a headline here tomorrow that Steve is the real Christ, enough idiots will click the "approve" button and will claim that they've seen Him walk on water.
Click to expand...

Its funny that you don't try to counter any points he made, as there is a sense from your post that you don't really understand much about these technologies.
 
NT1440 said:
Its funny that you don't try to counter any points he made, as there is a sense from your post that you don't really understand much about these technologies.
Click to expand...

What points?

Like the assertion that Jobs, the purveyor of the App Store, is the champion of OPEN standards, and that's why he is against Flash?

Or the fact that Steve forgot to mention that he does not allow Java on the iPad either, which is OPEN? I suppose you think Java apps crash Macs too?

Or how about the last point, about how forbidding cross-platform development is good for developers? You think anyone sensible has to think much about this one, too?

You must have some very deep and secret understanding of these technologies, if you think Jobs made such valid points.
 
macUser2007 said:
What points?

Like the assertion that Jobs, the purveyor of the App Store, is the champion of OPEN standards, and that's why he is against Flash?

Or the fact that Steve forgot to mention that he does not allow Java on the iPad either, which is OPEN? I suppose you think Java apps crash Macs too?

Or how about the last point, about how forbidding cross-platform development is good for developers? You think anyone sensible has to think much about this one, too?

You must have very deep and secret understanding of these technologies, if you think Jobs made such valid points.
Click to expand...

I guess I was right. Did you even read the actual letter? Many of his points make sense, like not wanting devs to have to go with the lowest common denominator and not being able to implement innovations until 3rd parties support them.

Where did you read that Apple was the champion of open standards? The letter clearly states that apple is in favor of open WEB standards and even addresses the closed nature of OSX.
 
Awesome replies from Adobe CEO!

Simple, straight to the point and most importantly HONEST!

As opposed to blatant LIES Steve spwed all over the place...
 
Well, here's how I see it. The thing about Steve Jobs is that what he does, what he says makes sense. No need to believe. It is completely normal to be made aware of something barely obvious and it suddenly making sense to you. The point is, 'put everything in just because we can' doesn't make sense.
 
NT1440 said:
I guess I was right. Did you even read the actual letter? Many of his points make sense, like not wanting devs to have to go with the lowest common denominator and not being able to implement innovations until 3rd parties support them.
Click to expand...

This is just stupid.

With all the competition in the App Store, developers wouldn't go for the "lowest common denominator." Cross platform developing works fine, if the tools are good, and Adobe generally makes good tools.

And if Adobe didn't implement some "innovations," then the developers can always abandon Adobe's tools and use Apple's SDK.

No, the real reason for banning cross platform development is that Jobs wants to prevent developers from easily branching to Android.

NT1440 said:
Where did you read that Apple was the champion of open standards? The letter clearly states that apple is in favor of open WEB standards and even addresses the closed nature of OSX.
Click to expand...

Yes, I read Jobs' letter. Apparently so did you, just couldn't see through all the bull*****.

Why do you think Apple is suddenly the champion of "open standards," and why is such championing limited to the web?

Did it never cross your mind, that it may be because Jobs doesn't want to allow the most common plugin on the web in his walled garden, so that he can monetize content which may otherwise be available to iPad users elsewhere, often for free?

And if it was all about "open standards," why is Java banned as well?

Do you think it may have something to do with applets breaking the golden wall of the garden?

Or did it cross your mind, that the letter is timed to deflect criticism of the lack of Flash on the iPad, right before the Google I/O in May, where Android 2.1 and Flash 10.1 are announced, working happily together on mobile devices?

No, it didn't I suppose.
 
macUser2007 said:
This is just stupid.

With all the competition in the App Store, developers wouldn't go for the "lowest common denominator." Cross platform developing works fine, if the tools are good, and Adobe generally makes good tools.

And if Adobe didn't implement some "innovations," then the developers can always abandon Adobe's tools and use Apple's SDK.

No, the real reason for banning cross platform development is that Jobs wants to prevent developers from easily branching to Android.



Yes, I read Jobs' letter. Apparently so did you, just couldn't see through all the ********.

Why do you think Apple is suddenly the champion of "open standards," and why is such championing limited to the web?

Did it never cross your mind, that it may be because Jobs doesn't want to allow the most common plugin on the web in his walled garden, so that he can monetize content which may otherwise be available to iPad users elsewhere, often for free?

And if it was all about "open standards," why is Java banned as well?

Do you think it may have something to do with applets breaking the golden wall of the garden?

Or did it cross your mind, that the letter is timed to deflect criticism of the lack of Flash on the iPad, right before the Google I/O in May, where Android 2.1 and Flash 10.1 are announced, working happily together on mobile devices?

No, it didn't I suppose.
Click to expand...
What don't you understand about open web standards? Apple contributes greatly to them, ever hear of a little popular thing called webkit? The rooting for open standards of the web is because openness is the very core philosophy behind the internet!

Also you've completely missed what I was talking about with the lowest common denominator. If apple comes up with a new API or tool that only iphone OS uses, you can bet that adobe isn't going to be supporting it in cross platform development software.

Also, for java, I believe it is an interpreted language that requires running through an additional processing layer eating up some CPU cycles.
 
I read the following post on 9to5mac, can't take credit for the information because it came from somewhere else, but found it interesting:

Isis (not verified) | April 29 said:
Well you could have checked alone in like Google, but here - download SWF10 specs from here:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/pdf/swf_file_format_spec_v10.pdf

Then go to this site to look at all different flash open source projects - even alternative players:
http://osflash.org/open_source_flash_projects

If you go to the site below you'll learn all about how some other idiot companies like Mozilla have implemented parts of donated Flash player code to make Javascript better (project Tamarin)
http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/site/Home
Click to expand...

...

Isis (not verified) | April 29 said:
Well you first have to learn how to read - then click on my second link. You'll find at least 5 open source players based on the format + a number of other closed players or exporters developed by other companies.

Open source format = specifications published. And they have been for a number of years.

Its a stupid discussion really - Apples runs the most closed down platform in the world ever and is accusing Adobe of hogging technology?

If you're too lazy to develop your own player based on the open source format and really need flash player source - you'll just have to become a member of the http://www.openscreenproject.org/ - you can download it then.
Click to expand...

Also this is quite good:

http://www.esarcasm.com/13913/steve-jobs-apple-adobe-letter/

All posted by Isis.

Also, is Quicktime an open standard? I only ask because if Apple are so opposed to proprietary solutions then why do I have to install Quicktime to be able to watch the movie trailers on Apple's site? Shouldn't they convert them all to .h264? Not least because although Apple complain about Adobe's software not running well on Apple computers, their own software runs like absolute $h!t on Windows! Both iTunes and Quicktime are an absolute joke, far worse than flash on OS X! They shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.
 
thedarkhalf said:
I just wish one of these guys would post proof of what they write about. Jobs should show an iPad or iPhone running flash against one that is running HTML5 video or something and the drain on battery life.

That would end this very quick
Click to expand...

This is the POINT. there is not such a "mobile flash player" available so far, so Adobe is crying about nothing ...
 
NT1440 said:
Also, for java, I believe it is an interpreted language that requires running through an additional processing layer eating up some CPU cycles.
Click to expand...

Java is bytecode compiled but in use actually runs faster than native C/C++ code in many cases (the runtime optimizes slow code as it goes). Burns a bit of RAM but the iPhone has loads of RAM anyway.

macUser2007 said:
No, the real reason for banning cross platform development is that Jobs wants to prevent developers from easily branching to Android.
Click to expand...

*BINGO*.

And also: because they don't want even more apps hitting the app store for approval. If the barrier to entry is lowered there'll be a much higher workload for Apple to review and approve those apps.

But that shouldn't be the consumer's problem!

Anyway, it's pretty obvious from the responses: developers are pretty sad about this, but most end users aren't reading between the lines (e.g. Apple haven't delivered Cocoa versions of Final Cut Pro yet AFAIK - porting to a new framework is really hard work, despite them pinning that accusation on Adobe).

At the end of the day, it'll inconvenience a few devs, injure Adobe (but not fatally, as long as they keep Photoshop and Acrobat working well), but the end result for users isn't going to be anything huge. Doesn't make what Steve Jobs said correct, even though it was written very well.
 
ayeying said:
Flash makes my battery life from :) to :(

And i'm using Adobe's newest 10.1 RC.

However, running Flash on Windows doesn't make my battery life drop at all.

Explain that Adobe. And no, I don't want to buy a new computer.
Click to expand...

You don't have to. Just put a professional operating system on it.
 
Lame...

He lost me when i read this:

Speaking about Mr. Jobs's assertion that Adobe is the No. 1 cause of Mac crashes, Mr. Narayen says if Adobe crashes Apple, that actually has something "to do with the Apple operating system."
Click to expand...

Lame.... Really really lame... Everyone else seems to be able to write stable software on OSX! Really lame....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back