Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Adobe Has 'Moved On' in Dispute With Apple Over Flash on iOS Devices

kdarling said:
Don't get me started on Apple's contribution to mobile site fragmentation.
Click to expand...

An interesting diversionary argument, but I'm not proclaiming Apple's awesomeness here. I'm arguing that I should not be required to download a proprietary plugin (whether from Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, or anyone else) if I want to see anything more than "This site requires Flash" on my screen. The argument that this is somehow akin to "choice" is absurd.

kdarling said:
There are plenty of websites that have iPhone-specific pages/apps, using Apple's special meta-tags that other mobile browsers don't recognize, and without which the pages look bad and/or don't work correctly.
Click to expand...

I don't own an Android device, but I seriously doubt there are many (any?) websites out there that greet an Android user with nothing more than the blunt statement "We're sorry, you must have an Apple iPhone to view this site."

kdarling said:
I think we'll start to see more people wondering why Apple locks its users out of Flash support, while their Android-using friends are not so held back.
Click to expand...

Perhaps people will realize "free and open" Google is only embracing proprietary Flash support in a quest for market share (read: $$$).

kdarling said:
Don't worry. Apple gets by with plenty of things that other companies would be nailed for :)
Click to expand...

Pfft, Apple gets by with nothing. Show me another company that can generate 10 pages of user gripes about a new application icon. ;)
 
BaldiMac said:
Is this it?

http://developer.apple.com/library/...eference/safarihtmlref/articles/metatags.html

I don't see how any of these tags would lead to problems on other mobile browsers or create lock in. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'd just like more information.
Click to expand...

If I had to guess it would be cause apple would go after anyone else who uses those standards in their browsers.
I have ran into more than one site that looks all screwy on a non-iOS mobile browser all because of those apple only meta tags.
Apple system pushes sites to develop for Mobile Safari but in doing so screws over the standards because other mobile browsers have issues with those tags that they can not process.

Chances are also apple has a lot of little things in mobile safari on how it deals with those tags. Things that other mobile browsers could not hope to copy. All apple has done is said here are the tools to make your site look great on mobile safari but they are screwing over everyone else and fragmenting mobile web even more.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
If I had to guess it would be cause apple would go after anyone else who uses those standards in their browsers.
I have ran into more than one site that looks all screwy on a non-iOS mobile browser all because of those apple only meta tags.
Apple system pushes sites to develop for Mobile Safari but in doing so screws over the standards because other mobile browsers have issues with those tags that they can not process.

Chances are also apple has a lot of little things in mobile safari on how it deals with those tags. Things that other mobile browsers could not hope to copy. All apple has done is said here are the tools to make your site look great on mobile safari but they are screwing over everyone else and fragmenting mobile web even more.
Click to expand...

Your "guess" does not appear to be supported by any facts. Only the assumption that Apple is doing something underhanded. Apple wouldn't "go after" anyone who implemented those tags in their browsers. Do you really think they have a patent on full screen browsing or adjusting the width of a web page?

And how would any of the tags that I linked to cause sites to look "all screwy" on other mobile browsers or fragment the web? From my (limited) understanding, the tags are only useful on an iOS device and are ignored in other browsers. Feel free to provide an explanation or examples to the contrary.
 
Flash Really Sucks!

This is why Steve keeps crappy Flash off iPad and iPhone.

Safari will often get stalled out and need to be restarted. In many cases, this can be traced to the Flash plugin getting overloaded. You can quite simply restart just the Flash plugin and make Safari work properly again.

You will need to use the Terminal to quit the WebKitPluginHost process. Safari sees that this process has died and automatically restarts it. Refreshing a page that was using the Flash plugin will then reload the plugin.

I have had Safari doing the beach ball of death and used this trick and it fixes it immediately.
  • Open the Terminal from the Utilities folder in /Applications
  • Type ps -ax | grep WebKitPluginHost
  • This will return something that looks like this:

16154 ?? 11:37.18 /System/Library/Frameworks/WebKit.framework/WebKitPluginHost.app/Contents/MacOS/WebKitPluginHost
  • Take the PID (Process ID) and kill it. It will be different each time. In the example above it is 16154.
  • Type kill -9 16154 (substituting the correct PID).
  • Go back to Safari and refresh any pages that were using the Flash plugin.
  • Try this whenever Safari gets slow or freezes with the beachball. Flash 10.1 does appear to have improved the situation somewhat, but hasn't eliminated it.

From Mac World
http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20100920113426884
Click to expand...
 
linux2mac said:
Interesting, even now that Firefox has become bloatware? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm curious what makes you call it bloatware? The Firefox app is only 30% larger than Safari, which isn't bad considering it's a cross-platform app with a good deal of platform abstraction code. It takes about 30% longer to start up too, for the same reasons. But I never shut down my browser so this isn't really a big deal.

On the other hand, it has more extensions/plugins available, works the same on every platform it runs under, and gets faster with every release.

So I don't really see what your "argument" has to do with anything. :rolleyes:
 
fxtech said:
I'm curious what makes you call it bloatware? The Firefox app is only 30% larger than Safari, which isn't bad considering it's a cross-platform app with a good deal of platform abstraction code. It takes about 30% longer to start up too, for the same reasons.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Okay, so what do you define bloatware as - 31%, 40%, 100% ? :rolleyes:
 
linux2mac said:
Interesting, even now that Firefox has become bloatware? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

linux2mac said:
Okay, so what do you define bloatware as - 31%, 40%, 100% ? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Why are you suddenly calling Firefox bloatware ? What is your point ?

You bring back a dead thread, you state out of nowhere that a hanged Safari process is somehow Adobe's fault, and then when someone claims Firefox doesn't suffer from this issue, you attack not the argument or the situation, but Firefox itself ?

:rolleyes:
 
KnightWRX said:
Why are you suddenly calling Firefox bloatware ? What is your point ?

You bring back a dead thread, you state out of nowhere that a hanged Safari process is somehow Adobe's fault, and then when someone claims Firefox doesn't suffer from this issue, you attack not the argument or the situation, but Firefox itself ?

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

+1

And for good measure: :rolleyes:
 
KnightWRX said:
Why are you suddenly calling Firefox bloatware ? What is your point ?

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It is what it is, duh! :rolleyes:

The point is, the only time my Mac's crash is because of Flash. Since installing Click2Flash (http://clicktoflash.com/), my issues of Flash crashing my system are gone. I stopped using FF once I went Mac. I am glad Flash is not on the iPad or iPhone. It's time to get rid of that buggy crap! :rolleyes:
 
linux2mac said:
It is what it is, duh! :rolleyes:

The point is, the only time my Mac's crash is because of Flash. Since installing Click2Flash (http://clicktoflash.com/), my issues of Flash crashing my system are gone. I stopped using FF once I went Mac. I am glad Flash is not on the iPad or iPhone. It's time to get rid of that buggy crap! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If you're going to use Click2Flash and never use any Flash at all, why not just remove Flash from your system if it causes so many issues ? Seriously, Flash never crashed my Mac, I really don't understand why all you people keep having problems with it. Maybe it really is Safari's plugin architecture that is so deficient.

Maybe you should go back to Firefox, then you won't need click2flash, since you can simply use NoScript and also get rid of annoying Javascript and anyway, Flash doesn't crash Firefox on OS X, at least for me.

So which is it ? Does Flash really crash OS X that much (if a userspace app brings down the OS, this is an OS bug, not an app bug), is it crashing only Safari a lot (which would point to a Safari bug more than a Flash bug) or are you guys just making this stuff up ?
 
KnightWRX said:
If you're going to use Click2Flash and never use any Flash at all, why not just remove Flash from your system if it causes so many issues ? Seriously, Flash never crashed my Mac, I really don't understand why all you people keep having problems with it. Maybe it really is Safari's plugin architecture that is so deficient.

Maybe you should go back to Firefox, then you won't need click2flash, since you can simply use NoScript and also get rid of annoying Javascript and anyway, Flash doesn't crash Firefox on OS X, at least for me.

So which is it ? Does Flash really crash OS X that much (if a userspace app brings down the OS, this is an OS bug, not an app bug), is it crashing only Safari a lot (which would point to a Safari bug more than a Flash bug) or are you guys just making this stuff up ?
Click to expand...

Nah, he's just drunk on cool-aid. You can tell, they roll their eyes a lot and sound like teenagers.
 
KnightWRX said:
If you're going to use Click2Flash and never use any Flash at all, why not just remove Flash from your system if it causes so many issues ? Seriously, Flash never crashed my Mac, I really don't understand why all you people keep having problems with it. Maybe it really is Safari's plugin architecture that is so deficient.

Maybe you should go back to Firefox, then you won't need click2flash, since you can simply use NoScript and also get rid of annoying Javascript and anyway, Flash doesn't crash Firefox on OS X, at least for me.

So which is it ? Does Flash really crash OS X that much (if a userspace app brings down the OS, this is an OS bug, not an app bug), is it crashing only Safari a lot (which would point to a Safari bug more than a Flash bug) or are you guys just making this stuff up ?
Click to expand...

Good - we are done with the rolling eyes business.

But yes, to answer your question, the only time Safari has crashed since I went Mac was due to Flash. Keep in mind I have only been on OSX for 11 months ( I am a new convert ). Also, I noticed Safari seemed sluggish prior to Click2Flash. I still use Firefox when I am on my Linux machines but I prefer Safari and my Mac as my main machine. I really like how polished Safari is compared to my windows days with IE and Linux days with FF.
 
KnightWRX said:
If you're going to use Click2Flash and never use any Flash at all, why not just remove Flash from your system if it causes so many issues ? Seriously, Flash never crashed my Mac, I really don't understand why all you people keep having problems with it. Maybe it really is Safari's plugin architecture that is so deficient.

Maybe you should go back to Firefox, then you won't need click2flash, since you can simply use NoScript and also get rid of annoying Javascript and anyway, Flash doesn't crash Firefox on OS X, at least for me.

So which is it ? Does Flash really crash OS X that much (if a userspace app brings down the OS, this is an OS bug, not an app bug), is it crashing only Safari a lot (which would point to a Safari bug more than a Flash bug) or are you guys just making this stuff up ?
Click to expand...

Flash slows down mac. when i watch youtube videos my mac is noticeably slower. When i try to use a website that has flash design my mac is slow and less responsive. Flash has just a few years left. Adobe should focus on other projects such as there HTML5 suite of apps.

When i use the youtube html5 player it does not slow down my system and controls are way more responsive.

People shouldn't be againest web standards we should be for them!
 
JoEw said:
People shouldn't be againest web standards we should be for them!
Click to expand...

Who said I was against HTML5 ? Seeing Flash as being here today, doesn't mean I don't recognize HTML5 is tomorrow. Flash isn't dead yet, it's still out there in a massive way. The world isn't black or white, nor is every rival technology a bitter battle. Coexistance can happen, you can have a Flash enabled browser that also parses and displays HTML5.

It shouldn't be forced out. If it is as bad as you people put it (and seriously, I haven't had any of the issues, even on my Mac, you people seem to have with it) it will go away on its own once HTML5 becomes better.
 
KnightWRX said:
Who said I was against HTML5 ? Seeing Flash as being here today, doesn't mean I don't recognize HTML5 is tomorrow. Flash isn't dead yet, it's still out there in a massive way. The world isn't black or white, nor is every rival technology a bitter battle. Coexistance can happen, you can have a Flash enabled browser that also parses and displays HTML5.

It shouldn't be forced out. If it is as bad as you people put it (and seriously, I haven't had any of the issues, even on my Mac, you people seem to have with it) it will go away on its own once HTML5 becomes better.
Click to expand...

Do you understand that by apple forcing it out HTML5 adaption will rapidy increase much faster then if they let flash into there platform.
 
JoEw said:
Do you understand that by apple forcing it out HTML5 adaption will rapidy increase much faster then if they let flash into there platform.
Click to expand...

I understand that forcing out the old by pushing the new in before the new is actually production ready, you'll end up with a huge stigma on the new. HTML5 is coming. Wait for it to get here before you go foaming at the mouth for it.

It's just not ready for many things, and even for things it is, there are still questions in the air. Not to mention that right now, IE8 and lower do not support any HTML5 and still represent close to 50% of the market.

The fact is, HTML5 isn't ready yet. Let's at least get browser support into the 70-80% for what is ready in the standard before we start thinking about phasing out the current technology.
 
KnightWRX said:
I understand that forcing out the old by pushing the new in before the new is actually production ready, you'll end up with a huge stigma on the new. HTML5 is coming. Wait for it to get here before you go foaming at the mouth for it.

It's just not ready for many things, and even for things it is, there are still questions in the air. Not to mention that right now, IE8 and lower do not support any HTML5 and still represent close to 50% of the market.

The fact is, HTML5 isn't ready yet. Let's at least get browser support into the 70-80% for what is ready in the standard before we start thinking about phasing out the current technology.
Click to expand...

But there is no "old" in the mobile market. There was no "production ready" solution until the last couple months. The fact is, Flash isn't ready yet either. 70-80% or more (by usage) of mobile browsers do support HTML5. Nobody is forcing anything the in desktop/laptop browsing market.
 
BaldiMac said:
But there is no "old" in the mobile market. There was no "production ready" solution until the last couple months. The fact is, Flash isn't ready yet either. 70-80% or more (by usage) of mobile browsers do support HTML5. Nobody is forcing anything the in desktop/laptop browsing market.
Click to expand...
Precisely.

The iPhone has been out since 2007. Millions of users are ecstatically pleased... and more still are chomping at the bit to get one (or an iPad/iPod), sans Flash. Sure, once in a while we hit some site where Flash is required. BFD. Those too will come around soon enough. And furthermore -- it's precisely due to the fact that browsers in Apple's iPad, iPhone & iPod do **not** support Flash which is providing the impetus for the world to... um, what's the phrase? Oh yeah: MOVE ON.




KnightWRX said:
Let's at least get browser support into the 70-80% for what is ready in the standard before we start thinking about phasing out the current technology.
Click to expand...
Ho-hum. Move along folks... nothing new to see there. It's the same OLD song these Flash Devs have been singing since April. They're bitter. They want the mobile world to stagnate with Flash, so they can earn their keep coating the web with ActionScript/Flex ...whatever.

Hard cheese. [things must be slow if they can hang out here whining all day long.]

:cool:

Now... let's clear out those "hidden" Flash cookies, shall we?
Code: 
[SIZE="1"][COLOR="Teal"]#!/bin/bash -u -
# cfc  :::  Clear Flash Cookies
#(c)EF/-HI-2010.Sep.23
IFS=$' \t\n'
declare -x PATH=/bin:/usr/bin
declare -i x=0 c=0 k=0
list= subf= args=
PRG=`basename "$0"`
DR1=~/Library/Preferences/Macromedia/Flash?Player
DR2=~/Library/Caches/Adobe/Flash?Player

trap 'tabs' EXIT

Help () {
	printf '\e[4mClear Flash Cookies\e[0m\nUsage:\n'
	printf '\t\e[1m%s\e[0m [\e[1m-?\e[0m]\n\n' $PRG
	printf 'Run with no args to list the cookies.\n'
	printf 'Any arg except -h clears the cookies.\n'
	exit 1
}

[ $# -ne 0 ] && [[ $1 = *[Hh]* ]] && Help

GoToFolder () {
	2>/dev/null cd "$1" && return 0 || {
		printf 'cannot find folder: %s/\n\a' "$1"
		return 1
	}
}

Tree () { # print a tree of the cwd:
	local dir= par= fix= ind=
	dir=`pwd -P`; par=`dirname "$dir"`; tabs -5; ind=$'\t'
	[[ $par = / ]] && fix=$ind
	find -x "$dir" -print0 |xargs -0 ls -1dfF |sed 's:'"$par"':'"$fix"':;
		s:/$: \\:;s:[^/]*/:'"$ind"':g;s: \\$:/:;s:'"$ind"':'"$fix"':;
		1s:'"$fix"'::' |sed "s:[/*@=|%]$:`printf '\e[1m&\e[0m'`:"
}

ScanFolder () {
	GoToFolder "$1" || return 1
	c=`ls -p1 |grep -e '/$' |wc -l |sed 's:[^0-9]::g'`
	subf=`ls -p1 |grep -e '/$' |sed 's:/$::;s: :\?:g'`

	case $c in
	0)	printf 'no subfolders exist in: %s\n' "$1"; return 1;;
	1)	args=$subf;;
	*)	args=-f\ $subf;;
	esac

	list=`find -x $args -not -type d`

	if [[ -n $list ]]
	then
		[ $k -eq 0 ] && printf '\n\e[7mFILES FOUND:\e[0m'
		printf '\n\e[1;4m%s\e[0;1m/\e[0m\n' "$1"
		echo "$list" |tr '\n' '\000' |xargs -0 ls -bloghrtke
		echo
		((k+=1))
	fi
	return 0
}

for d in $DR1 $DR2; do ScanFolder "$d"; done

[ $k -eq 0 ] && printf 'already cleared...\n'
printf '\n\e[7mTREE LISTING:\e[0m\n'
printf '\e[1;4mPREFS\e[0m\n'
GoToFolder $DR1 && Tree
printf '\n\e[1;4mCACHE\e[0m\n'
GoToFolder $DR2 && Tree
echo

if [ $# -ne 0 ] && [ $k -ne 0 ]
then  # remove cookie & cache items, but leave "basic" directory trees intact:
	GoToFolder $DR1 &&
	    rm -fR {macromedia.com/support/flashplayer/sys,#SharedObjects/*}/*
	x=$?
	GoToFolder $DR2 && rm -fR AssetCache/*/*
	((x+=$?))
	[ $x -eq 0 ] && printf '\e[30;42m FLASH COOKIES CLEARED \e[0m\n' ||
			printf '\e[37;41m %s: an error occurred \e[0m\n' $PRG
fi
exit $x


[/COLOR][/SIZE]
 
KnightWRX said:
I understand that forcing out the old by pushing the new in before the new is actually production ready, you'll end up with a huge stigma on the new. HTML5 is coming. Wait for it to get here before you go foaming at the mouth for it.

It's just not ready for many things, and even for things it is, there are still questions in the air. Not to mention that right now, IE8 and lower do not support any HTML5 and still represent close to 50% of the market.

The fact is, HTML5 isn't ready yet. Let's at least get browser support into the 70-80% for what is ready in the standard before we start thinking about phasing out the current technology.
Click to expand...

When i say apple's platform i mean mobile devices iphone, ipod touch and ipad.

There is barely even a need for flash on a mobile device games don't work, video sites want you to pay premiums for mobile watching.
And most developers with a brain would use web standards for there web design.

The point is that mobile is the next generation of internet and it will be flash free weather people like it or not and by apple choosing not to support it HTML5 is rapidly developing.

I could give a **** about desktop running flash personally i have many issues with it and think the sooner it dies the better. But no matter what, flash has 2 or 3 years left on the desktop before html5 starts phasing it out. I agree with you there. Mobile is a completely different subject.
 
JoEw said:
When i say apple's platform i mean mobile devices iphone, ipod touch and ipad.

There is barely even a need for flash on a mobile device games don't work, video sites want you to pay premiums for mobile watching.
And most developers with a brain would use web standards for there web design.
Click to expand...

iOS represents about 1% of the web surfing population. It just surpassed Linux on the desktop. It's insignificant in the balance, no matter how much Apple touts it as the "big thing".

And Flash works well on mobiles. Games do work, maybe not 100% of them, but enough, video sites do work too. Android with Flash 10.1 has proven to the world it can be done in a very acceptable way.

When HTML5 becomes the better technological choice, it will get implemented. There's no need to rush it in an unfinished state. This will only leave people with a bitter taste about it if you take away what works now only to tell them the new thing "will work sometime in the future, give it time!". You don't replace working options with IOU notes.
 
KnightWRX said:
There's no need to rush it in an unfinished state. This will only leave people with a bitter taste about it if you take away what works now only to tell them the new thing "will work sometime in the future, give it time!".
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that software development model sounds all too familiar. Oh wait, that's Microsoft's model! :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back