Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Adobe Shows Off Flash-to-HTML5 Converter
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Wrong choice of words there, but their initial position was to put Silverlight everywhere.
In the future I see that Flash (as in the authoring software) could be a tool for creating HTML5 animations and rich HTML5 content. Perhaps CS6 or CS7 will have a javascript editor rather for HTML5 rather than Flash plugin only Actionscript...
Obviously HTML5 can't do everything Flash does, but there's a lot of overlap, and it would be great if those familiar with Flash could create HTML5 content without starting again from scratch.
Obviously HTML5 can't do everything Flash does, but there's a lot of overlap, and it would be great if those familiar with Flash could create HTML5 content without starting again from scratch.
Must admit it's nice, although full FLV won't happen overnight.
I doubt you can convert current scripts on ActionScript to Javascript in a jiffy, although both are based on ECMA. The fault is not much on Adobe, it's on the primer of HTML5 and the ability for current browsers to follow. Your typical flash-based site uses a lot of ActionScript. Convert that to Javascript and we're talking a Mother of a script. Such large scripts exist and can be run on browsers, but not for that kind of animation and interactivity. It would work but slowly. Optimization will be needed and that's all done by hand. It'll be like starting from scratch.
No, until someone comes up with a really serious Javascript animation package (framework + App), we won't see any real progress there. Flash (the app) looks ideal now, but we're talking 2-3 years minimum before this happens. Meanwhile, someone else could emerge with a better solution, hopefully open-sourced.
As much as it pains me to realize it, Apple won't have any footing in what's coming next (at least not directly, with a package of their own, but contributing perhaps). Look at iWeb. FCP, Logic and others were bought, not developed in-house. And XCode is decade-old legacy that they're building on top of. It would be foolish to believe they'd replace Adobe if they're not forced to (like if Adobe stops catering to the Mac). I would really see Adobe being bought by Apple (but this is another discussion).
Meanwhile, JS's rant and policy on iOS is still very much valid, for the few years to come. 2-3 years, that's his focus range, much shorter than others. And he's correctly doing that: how many years you expect playing with the current iPad/iPhone 4 version anyway?
I doubt you can convert current scripts on ActionScript to Javascript in a jiffy, although both are based on ECMA. The fault is not much on Adobe, it's on the primer of HTML5 and the ability for current browsers to follow. Your typical flash-based site uses a lot of ActionScript. Convert that to Javascript and we're talking a Mother of a script. Such large scripts exist and can be run on browsers, but not for that kind of animation and interactivity. It would work but slowly. Optimization will be needed and that's all done by hand. It'll be like starting from scratch.
No, until someone comes up with a really serious Javascript animation package (framework + App), we won't see any real progress there. Flash (the app) looks ideal now, but we're talking 2-3 years minimum before this happens. Meanwhile, someone else could emerge with a better solution, hopefully open-sourced.
As much as it pains me to realize it, Apple won't have any footing in what's coming next (at least not directly, with a package of their own, but contributing perhaps). Look at iWeb. FCP, Logic and others were bought, not developed in-house. And XCode is decade-old legacy that they're building on top of. It would be foolish to believe they'd replace Adobe if they're not forced to (like if Adobe stops catering to the Mac). I would really see Adobe being bought by Apple (but this is another discussion).
Meanwhile, JS's rant and policy on iOS is still very much valid, for the few years to come. 2-3 years, that's his focus range, much shorter than others. And he's correctly doing that: how many years you expect playing with the current iPad/iPhone 4 version anyway?
Where the hell have you been? of course Flash is allowed on WP7 but Adobe/Microsoft have both said that due to the massive change it won't be out maybe until the first update in early 2011. Sorry to sound angry but this information has been known for at least a year before WP7 was released.
Btw, Microsoft has recently said that Silverlight is no longer going to be put up as a multiplatform alternative to Flash thus you're seeing more Windows hooks being made available to Silverlight programmers so they can hook into native code. Microsoft has already thrown their hand on the table, Silverlight for multiplatform Windows/WP7/Zune development and HTML5 for everything else.
Apple and Microsoft both recognise HTML5 as the future, Adobe has finally realised that and is now focusing on AIR and providing a migration tool for Flash to HTML5 - it took all of them to agree but all agree what the future is so there is no controversial future, it is just that Apple is further ahead in the HTML5 game than Microsoft or Adobe.
I've never understood this argument about Flash, Adobe, Apple, etc.
If you wanna argue against Flash you might as well say the same things about Javascript which is a mess by itself, even more unoptimized mess when it comes to complex multimedia experience. And don't forget that half of the javascript viewed is on a browser that doesnt support it right IE6-8.
Both Flash and JS have their place on the web and simply one will never replace another because neither is superior and never will be.
Flash and JS are just byproducts of greatest evil when it comes to great layout and implementation of multimedia on web and thats HTML. HTML was never meant for complicated layouts, animations, etc. It was meant for text and tables simple as that. That's why when new and upcoming designers start working on web are so shocked how nothing makes sense. Why do we have cascades and how does that make sense? It makes sense in a way that its a patch! Its a patch to make HTML a little bit more comprehensive and doable when it comes to layout but it shouldn't be like that!
HTML is patched after a being patched and quite frankly it will never be multimedia powerhouse until its foundations are changed.
HTML is only and sole reason why our web experience is so slowly developing and its not as rich as it should be (probably because we're waiting for another CSS to come and introduce another workaround or exciting "new" feature).
If you wanna argue against Flash you might as well say the same things about Javascript which is a mess by itself, even more unoptimized mess when it comes to complex multimedia experience. And don't forget that half of the javascript viewed is on a browser that doesnt support it right IE6-8.
Both Flash and JS have their place on the web and simply one will never replace another because neither is superior and never will be.
Flash and JS are just byproducts of greatest evil when it comes to great layout and implementation of multimedia on web and thats HTML. HTML was never meant for complicated layouts, animations, etc. It was meant for text and tables simple as that. That's why when new and upcoming designers start working on web are so shocked how nothing makes sense. Why do we have cascades and how does that make sense? It makes sense in a way that its a patch! Its a patch to make HTML a little bit more comprehensive and doable when it comes to layout but it shouldn't be like that!
HTML is patched after a being patched and quite frankly it will never be multimedia powerhouse until its foundations are changed.
HTML is only and sole reason why our web experience is so slowly developing and its not as rich as it should be (probably because we're waiting for another CSS to come and introduce another workaround or exciting "new" feature).
What part of saying Apple is not a plain hardware vendor did you take as abhoration ?
Or was it calling them out of their Flash "Open mouth, insert foot" moment ? Who does Steve Jobs thinks he is just calling others lazy before looking at his own company ? Seriously, it wasn't even a critique of Apple. It's great that they are the last of their kind in the consumer world. Integrated system vendors are good and the products work very well. Also having to go to 1 guy for after sales support greatly simplifies things.
I support HP boxes at work. HP hardware, HP OS, HP software. Same deal as Apple, except for enterprise grade hardware. The uptime and service is out of this world.
Some people seem to just like to call hater on anyone who ever critiqued Apple once... Seriously, get over yourself. Apple might not be right all the time and I might call them out on it when I think they are out of line, but it doesn't mean I don't like their products.
Seems it was you that was making a lot noise here, not me. Attack the argument next time, not the poster.
You've never understood Javascript either it seems. What is unoptimized about Javascript ? It's just a language. And what isn't supported right about Javascript under IE6-8 ?
You're confusing things here. First, there is no element of multimedia to Javascript. It's simply a programming language to make web pages programmable rather than static documents. 2nd, what IE6-8 doesn't support right and is different from other browsers is not Javascript itself, it's the DOM (Document Object Model) which is used by Javascript developers to manipulate the static HTML/CSS document and CSS (Cascading Style Sheet) which is used to take the information in the HTML file and format it for on screen display.
Also, Javascript is far from unoptimized these days. Browsers have moved from an interpreter that simple reads in and executes the script on a line by line basis to JIT compilation, which actually compiles the script and optimizes it for the machine it is running on, making it run almost as fast as other binary applications.
So please, before criticizing anything, at least read the 101 on it.
What part of saying Apple is not a plain hardware vendor did you take as abhoration ?
Seriously, it wasn't even a critique of Apple. It's great that they are the last of their kind in the consumer world. Integrated system vendors are good and the products work very well. Also having to go to 1 guy for after sales support greatly simplifies things.
I support HP boxes at work. HP hardware, HP OS, HP software. Same deal as Apple, except for enterprise grade hardware. The uptime and service is out of this world.
Some people seem to just like to call hater on anyone who ever critiqued Apple once... Seriously, get over yourself. Apple might not be right all the time and I might call them out on it when I think they are out of line, but it doesn't mean I don't like their products.
Seems it was you that was making a lot noise here, not me. Attack the argument next time, not the poster.
You've never understood Javascript either it seems. What is unoptimized about Javascript ? It's just a language. And what isn't supported right about Javascript under IE6-8 ?
You're confusing things here. First, there is no element of multimedia to Javascript. It's simply a programming language to make web pages programmable rather than static documents. 2nd, what IE6-8 doesn't support right and is different from other browsers is not Javascript itself, it's the DOM (Document Object Model) which is used by Javascript developers to manipulate the static HTML/CSS document and CSS (Cascading Style Sheet) which is used to take the information in the HTML file and format it for on screen display.
Also, Javascript is far from unoptimized these days. Browsers have moved from an interpreter that simple reads in and executes the script on a line by line basis to JIT compilation, which actually compiles the script and optimizes it for the machine it is running on, making it run almost as fast as other binary applications.
So please, before criticizing anything, at least read the 101 on it.
Wrong wording I meant to say complex interactive experience. And JS is pretty limited when it comes to it and if you try to do it results can be messy most of the time.
Exectucion of JS in IE is a disaster. Therefore if a browser cant render it right it doesn't support it right?
Anyway I am not picking sides here I am just saying that both Flash and JS have their own place on web.
And again, you're still wrong. Javascript itself does not support any kind of function to provide a complex interactive experience. You're accusing the wrong component.
Again, DOM and CSS support are lacking in IE, and sometimes IE even picks non-standard ways of doing things with those particular technologies, both of which have nothing to do with Javascript itself.
IE supports Javascript as standardised by ECMA correctly. You're not pointing at the right technology.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)
IMHO. Flash is sh..
But that's just my opinion based solely on my user experience.
Apple Authoring app would be helpful.
IMHO. Flash is sh..
But that's just my opinion based solely on my user experience.
Apple Authoring app would be helpful.
That's because your using Apple hardware, In reality your hardware is **** and that's your problem. The vast majority of Windows users have no idea what Flash is because it just works or them. So you guys can continue your Jobsian crusade against Flash that nobody outside Apple's walled garden gives a **** about.
A little surprised no-one has mentioned Adobe's HTML 5 authoring tool prototype called Edge yet....
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adc-presents/preview-of-the-edge-prototype-tool-for-html5-/
Looks like they are tackling HTML 5 from both directions - export from flash and a brand new HTML 5 authoring tool.
Looks promising to me.
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adc-presents/preview-of-the-edge-prototype-tool-for-html5-/
Looks like they are tackling HTML 5 from both directions - export from flash and a brand new HTML 5 authoring tool.
Looks promising to me.
Javascript hasn't been optimized, the JS browser compilers have. Due to the quicksand of standards committees, Javascript has stagnated as a language. You're talking about execution speed. But I (and I think the fellow you quoted) are talking about development speed. The lack of real classes, the lack of strong typing, the lack of a proper display hierarchy (the DOM is a hack compared to Flash's DisplayList system), the lack of Dictionary object, Vector support, proper XML parser.... I could go on. But another disadvantage is performance and feature fragmentation from browser to browser.
Also, did you guys not see the new hardware-accelerated 3D mode for Flash? It is way way past what WebGL is capable of. 1080p @ 60fps pushing several hundred thousand polys with full shader support:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgwi0lWgX8w&hd=1
And that is taking 0% CPU. We're going to see Flash become a competent game platform. Lots of MMOs (WoW in a browser?), FPSes, etc. 3D will be supported on Android devices uses OpenGL ES 2.0. And perhaps Flash's export-to-iPhone feature will gain OpenGL ES support on iOS devices.
In any case, Flash is not going away. There is room for it and room for HTML5. Adobe realizes that, and any objective and informed person should realize that as well.
Yes, of course. Or what would you use to write and design HTML5-based websites if not Dreamweaver or another Adobe product?
It's a smart move from Adobe to develop such features. It allows experienced Flash developers to stay productive without having to learn yet another bundle of tools and languages. (And HTML5 is just that: A bundle of many, many different things.) Adobe can only win with such a move.
Besides, the true reason why Apple hates Flash - and now Java - is that those technologies make it easy to develop multi-platform applications that run anywhere and not only on Apple devices. When Apple was quiet when they needed those technologies to attract users and developers to their own platform. Now they have enough momentum to try to lock them in -- a typical move that Microsoft would have made in the late 1980s or 1990s.
Now Adobe simply bypasses Apple's annoyances. And to add insult to injury, Adobe is the ONLY vendor on the market that even has professional tools for HTML5 development in its portfolio. Apple just has a big mouth and nothing really to show except for a web browser (whose mobile versions are not even really up to the HTML5 task).
Adobe clearly wins this round and Apple is not a single step closer to successfully locking in developers to their gadget world.
Thank god they didn't add all of that to the language, if you wanted Java, you should use Java, not try to turn Javascript into some kind of object oriented, typed monster with a class library. That's not the goal of the language and not every language needs to have those kinds of feature.
XML parser ? That's not even a language feature and you can sure write one in Javascript if you want, the language is turring complete. If fact, I'd bet a quick Google search would yield quite a few.
There is no fragmentation from browser to browser. Every browser supports the same Javascript language. Again, you're talking about CSS and DOM which are not part of Javascript and can be manipulated by any programming language a browser supports.
After all these years of supporting the older version they must support this one, Specially if they want to stay in business.
We are living in "APPLE Era".
Live with it or leave it, I think don't you.
We are living in "APPLE Era".
Live with it or leave it, I think don't you.
Are most of the posters in this thread REALLY that much of fan boys that INSIST Adobe is admitting Flash is dead? (Which it isn't)
I have seen some people point this out before so my post is more like a duplicate but let me try and explain.
People use Flash... Flash the tool. It isn't about the Flash PLAYER.
If people can use Flash tool to make ads and what have you and then convert it to HTML5 how is it any miff to Adobe? Adobe knows the browser plugin is old and so do all those devs mentioned who are jumping to HTML5.
Point is HTML5 is a pain to work with compared to the nice UI and ease of use of Flash tools. What do they do? Buy Flash tools from Adobe... make ads and whatever USING Flash tools and than convert it to HTML5 USING FLASH TOOLS.
Everyone wins.
Example.
When you create a document in Pages what format do you send it to your teacher/boss in?
Surely not .Pages I know I don't. I send it in .doc (some want .docx)
Why?
Pages is easier for me to use (ie Flash Tools) but most people use Microsoft Word (which will possibly soon be the position of HTML5)
Stop with Steve convinced this Adobe is lazy that and all this horrid fan boy crud!
It's no wonder Winni and Aiden Shaw enjoy making fun of the lot of us!
PS
Flash the plugin might be dying but Flash tools (if this thing Adobe is doing goes through) will always be here unless Apple itself gets off their arse and makes a better converter tool.
Adobe lazy?
iTunes 64-bit anyone?
I have seen some people point this out before so my post is more like a duplicate but let me try and explain.
People use Flash... Flash the tool. It isn't about the Flash PLAYER.
If people can use Flash tool to make ads and what have you and then convert it to HTML5 how is it any miff to Adobe? Adobe knows the browser plugin is old and so do all those devs mentioned who are jumping to HTML5.
Point is HTML5 is a pain to work with compared to the nice UI and ease of use of Flash tools. What do they do? Buy Flash tools from Adobe... make ads and whatever USING Flash tools and than convert it to HTML5 USING FLASH TOOLS.
Everyone wins.
Example.
When you create a document in Pages what format do you send it to your teacher/boss in?
Surely not .Pages I know I don't. I send it in .doc (some want .docx)
Why?
Pages is easier for me to use (ie Flash Tools) but most people use Microsoft Word (which will possibly soon be the position of HTML5)
Stop with Steve convinced this Adobe is lazy that and all this horrid fan boy crud!
It's no wonder Winni and Aiden Shaw enjoy making fun of the lot of us!
PS
Flash the plugin might be dying but Flash tools (if this thing Adobe is doing goes through) will always be here unless Apple itself gets off their arse and makes a better converter tool.
Adobe lazy?
iTunes 64-bit anyone?
HTML5 is not Apple's invention. Adobe's decision is obviously driven more by global internet standards, of which Flash has become by its ubiquity, then merely the fact that Apple has locked their users out of using Flash content on their iOS products.
Adobe are a software company who regularly innovate and bring functionality to their products. If we look at Apple's software of late, where it was once elegant and easy to use, they've added complexity and lack of flexibility.
As for Apple's standing in the professional software stakes, well they really could learn something from Adobe.
Adobe are a software company who regularly innovate and bring functionality to their products. If we look at Apple's software of late, where it was once elegant and easy to use, they've added complexity and lack of flexibility.
As for Apple's standing in the professional software stakes, well they really could learn something from Adobe.
Do I assume that the same code (after being converted) will run better and need less CPU power to run than the original code did in Flash?
Or might we see a situation than the HTML5 version needs more power to run smoothly than the Flash version.
Which will be sooooooooooooooooooo funny
Or might we see a situation than the HTML5 version needs more power to run smoothly than the Flash version.
Which will be sooooooooooooooooooo funny