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After the dust settled, what is the consensus about 2016 MBPs?
- Thread starter Don-Lucio
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Every day I tell myself my "need" to eat more than a few salads is driven by food envy.
I've lost about 60 pounds doing this
Is that a moral claim? Hard to see the basis for it, moral or not. If there are enough people willing to pay a premium for 32 GB--a premium in money and battery life--whether they need it or not, Apple will supply it. Same as with the 17" screen, the matte screen, and whatever else.
It depends on how long they remain useable. I've been able to use almost all of my previous PowerBook / MacBook laptops for at least 5 years as Apple continues to provide OS and app updates to older hardware. My wife used a 2011 MacBook Air (w/ 4GB RAM) on Sierra until very recently. Can the same be said about typical Windows laptops?
Another one LOL. Don't tell me what I do or don't need. Apple Marketing alleged that 32GB would take more juice but plenty have pointed out that rather than making the 2016 model thinner make it thicker and support the option. If they can do that with the 2017 ipad then it could easily have been done here with the 2016 MBP.
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I know plenty of people who need 32GB. There, two can play that game.
Um, first, I obviously didn't tell you what you need. Second, again, there's already plenty of room for 32 GB RAM. There's room for a larger battery too, but even the largest battery allowed could only be 23 watt-hours more, not enough to make up for the extra power drain for those who actually use the RAM.
Not a matter of thinness, but mythology doesn't bother about facts.
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Of course most pros do prefer a thinner device, for the same reasons others do. But that's not an issue in regard to 32 GB RAM.Coz nothing screams 'pro' more then a thin device
Apple doesn't make a laptop for every segment of the market. that's just the fact, they try to target the biggest segment for the highest ROI. They do this with ALL their products.
Plenty compared to what? The users who don't? No, that's a really, really small percentage.
The correct claim is: there are specific tasks that require more than 8 or 16Gb RAM. Running virtual machines, rendering, etc). Those people are out of luck with the new MB. Everyone else will be more than fine with 16.
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Coz nothing screams 'pro' more then a thin device
Depends on the work. I would argue that nothing screams 'pro' more than mobility.
Unless you're on MacRumors, then "pro" means a gaming GPU and 32Gb RAM.
As someone else already pointed out, large RAM requirements are usually met with by a far more powerful desktop system. And few people really need it. Certainly NOT "plenty" or Apple would be addressing that market. I happen to know that Dell does not sell a lot of 32GB laptops. Most are 8GB.
A few days ago I was editing jewelry pics for catalogue. These were 50 MP files in RAW, then converted to TIFF. I was running layers in photoshop and also using Lightroom at the same time with a lot of files open. The virtual memory created by the ultra fast SSD made quick work of this sort of thing.
That's a fairly heavy application for a computer. 32 GB would make no difference.
I don't doubt that SOMEONE needs 32GB, but we keep asking and rarely does anyone here TRULY need it. Nor are the ones complaining usually pro users. Pro users don't worry about the NAME of a computer...know what I mean?
Apple will have 32 GB machines soon.
R.
15" doesn't have to be as thin as it is. They could left it as thick as old gen rmbp. Bigger battery, more ram = happier pro.
Of course, I speak for myself, from my own computing needs. And I don't need a dedicated GPU at all, don't do any graphic work, video editing or gaming at all.
But then again, some 'pro' just need their laptop to look slick
ming at all.
But then again, some 'pro' just need their laptop to look slick
No, you don't get it. Sure, I like my laptops looking good, but even thicker MBPs look fine. It's about weight and size. While small, incremental updates are not significant (the new MBP is not insanely lighter than the previous one) - they add up in time and I expect Apple to push in this direction, until the day comes when I can have the computing power and ability I have now, but in a device that is as light as an iPad. People had this same argument when first Retina MBP came out. But compare the pre-retina 15" to the new one. I know I would never carry the old one around as much as I do this one.
You don't have to agree, but don't trivialize this by making it about aesthetics. It's not about looks.
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It doesn't 'have' to be anything. It doesn't have to be 15". Or quad-core. Or have a dedicated GPU. It's up to the manufacturer to design the device, weigh the pros and the cons and decide what product they want to make and try to sell to people. Apple made a decision that they believe is best. They didn't 'have' to do it this way, sure.
Personally, if they made a thicker and heavier 15" with a larger battery, my comment would be something along the lines of: 15" doesn't need to have such a large battery. They could've made it lighter."
And since Apple is not known for choice, but for doing what they think is best - this is what we got. This time, it's what I prefer. Tomorrow, maybe they do something I don't like. Then I'll look at the alternatives. But I'll still be glad Apple is sticking to their principles and doing what they believe is right.
Coz nothing screams 'pro' more then a thin device
LOL, yes this is all part of the mixed message of the tbMBP15 where some like to think it's a perfect balance between performance and portability, but it's more like mutton dressed as lamb IMO
Sure it has a wannabe portability factor being thin and light for a 15" and you can drive it in a nanny mode to try and ekk out 9/10/11 hrs of battery life, yes it's nice that it can mimic a cheap laptop to gain battery endurance but if your buying a $3000 laptop only to do this then Apple are laughing their socks off all the way to the shareholders.
To start utilising the potential of the quad core etc your almost guaranteed to be tethered to the wall socket like any high performance laptop yet they missed the mark for top end users. Sure they waved to a "Pro" minority set they may use 4 screens and those that want >500nits for a few minutes a day or colour accuracy that's really done on desktop screens. They missed other minorities who need 32GB ram. They missed other minorities that want the latest and greatest CPU/dGPU, they missed others on upgradability and gave you the most difficult and expensive laptop to date for repairs
Sure they gave you some short lived bragging rights on SSD speed and 4 ports whose full potential will not be unlocked for a few years yet and a placebo TB
As you note for a little more battery/size you could of had reasonable nanny mode battery endurance but a superior desktop replacement more worthy for all "Pro's"
I'm sure many consider the current generation compromises made suit their requirements however it's quite clear that the top demanding users are not so happy as too are those that are trying to justify Apple pricing vs competition on some of the specs.
I have much higher hopes for the 2nd generation new MBP's but find the current gen is clouded with too much smoke and mirrors of highs and lows centring around almost 3 pieces of software if you read MR more pro-supporters
The areas that I would have liked to see an improvement is:
- Ports - Another TB3 port and an SD card slot.
- Battery Life - probably using the new battery design
- GPU - This would be hard given TDP limitations, however it is quite weak (vs competition)
- Keyboard - I like it but it can be inconsistent and some have found it loud.
- SSD - I would have wanted this to remain removable and upgradeable, given Apples SSD prices.
You can upgrade the Dell RAM yourself after for cheaper ...soo of course people by 8GB
Actually it would make it even faster.
This will help:https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...y-life-concerns.2010291/page-24#post-23820850
Note that guy is not talking about a few users - he it talking about thousands of users.
Personally some of the statistical software I use can only run models if it can fit it into RAM - much of this kind of software does not support disk-swapping. If the model I'm running won't fit in memory the machine will crash. Simple as. 16GB is a hard limit on stuff I want to do. I keep a Dell desktop purely to occasionally run such models. I'd rather sell it and have a 32GB laptop. I'd like that to be an Apple. But Apple currently isn't interested in my business or any of the thousands of scientists that poster was on about. Eventually I'll have to succumb to a Dell XPS if Apple don't shape up (an 8GB Dell - which I'll upgrade aftermarket
)
I have 0 issues that we don't agree at all. Different people, different needs. But I do have a problem with this that you wrote:
'Depends on the work. I would argue that nothing screams 'pro' more than mobility.'
So my post was made to trivialize that statement. Because as I said, different people, different needs. 15" is not made to be mobile. And it isn't that mobile. Sure, you can carry it around. I do. But when I get to the place I need to be, laptop is situated on the table. For mobile needs I use laptops with way less smaller footprint. For 15" i expect way more horsepower then 12" MB or 13 MBP.
But as I said - different people, different needs.
Silly argument. If you put it that way, it doesn't have to exist at all
Well, this is something anyone understands
You put my thoughts into words, I'm in the very same situation as you. I engage in scientific computing for a living, and whenever I have to load a large dataset/model either it fits into the main memory or I simply can't execute the program. Any fixed amount of RAM is a hard limit on the size of the problems my machine can solve. How much is enough in these situation? There's no threshold, the more you have the better, but right now having less than 32 GB forces me to maintain a desktop computer (which I otherwise have no use for) just to run a few experiments. Alas, we are a very small minority of users, and whenever Apple decides to finally offer a RAM bump it won't be because of our specific needs.
I'm not sure we are that small a minority. The guy in that post I linked to was talking of thousands of physicist users. I know folks in diverse fields from data science, to genetics, to metabolomics etc etc who all want 32GB laptops. Maybe Apple shoudl capitalise this market and release a ScienceBook lol .....can you image the price
My consensus after several months of usage is that comparatively to previous MBPs this one sucks (15" top CPU, 512, 455).
The only 2 advantages I can see are the slimness/weight/size and TB3 ports. I haven't asked for slimness/weight/size, I preferred previous size with more to offer inside however I still can appreciate the size since it has happened and cannot be changed. I have no problems with TB3 ports - of course adapters are ugly but I'm all for the progress and all of that ********.
To be fair I don't see the difference in the display. I understand that from technical POV it's better but I can't feel this difference.
And I see a lot of disadvantages. Pretty much all of them were expected right after presentation and only got confirmed when I got the laptop and used it for several months.
- The keyboard is awful. It's loud and the worst - loudness is not uniformed. Mistyping is hugely noticeable when I almost never mistyped on the previous ones. It's the first time in 10 years I think about getting external keyboard for the laptop. Still struggling though and hoping I will adapt.
- Touch Bar is awful. I touch it accidentally numerous times a day. They've removed Cmd Shift Power combination and I had to add Lock button on the Touch Bar. Wherever I put it I accidentally push it sometimes. Not feeling Esc is awful, I mistype it twice very often. The fact that Touch Bar turns off fast to save battery is not comfortable - if I want to change volume or Lock the Mac I have to activate it somehow first. Had it added any cool features I'd disregard all of described but for me it literally added nothing - and I tried using it quite extensively.
- Trackpad size is awful. I accidentally touch it whenever I type. I accidentally touch its left side when trying to do something on it with the right hand resulting in the wrong gestures or cursor not moving.
- Choice of iGPU is awful. I feel moments where there is not enough performance of iGPU and it literally lags. I feel the battery gets drained much faster because more deeds require switching to dGPU. Compared to my similar MBP 2015 it gets drained much faster on similar mid-stressful load.
- Size of battery. It gets drained noticeably faster than MBP2015 for me.
- Lack of MagSafe. I kind of half-solved it by using Griffin Break-safe cable but it's still not the same and it provides only 60W of power instead of 87W. And it's ugly.
At the very least I want the same laptop without Touch Bar and with Iris Pro iGPU and layered battery (as in MB). Then I'd prefer previous keyboard to return (or this one to be fixed) and trackpad to be shrunk horizontally. Last I'd prefer display resolution to be increased physically not in software as it was.
All in all I wouldn't have bought late 2016 model myself. I got it from my employer that's why I still have it (changing it is kind of a bureaucracy hell). Had it been my own money - **** you Apple - I would return it in an instant.
And I haven't even started talking about 32GB and QA issues known throughout this forum. I had one myself (two keyboard buttons haven't worked sometimes in the first days but then they somehow got fixed and I haven't noticed this issue anymore - for the price this one costs that's outrageous to say the least).
Lack of TB3 docks is a one more sad story... I've preordered mine in the beginning of December with promise to be delivered in February. Expected to be delivered in the middle of April at the very least and I fear the date will be shifted again to the end of May.
P. S. IMHO MBP late 2013 was the last MBP worth the money. Surprisingly, I expect (more like hope) 2017's MBs and MBPs will be worth the money again.
The only 2 advantages I can see are the slimness/weight/size and TB3 ports. I haven't asked for slimness/weight/size, I preferred previous size with more to offer inside however I still can appreciate the size since it has happened and cannot be changed. I have no problems with TB3 ports - of course adapters are ugly but I'm all for the progress and all of that ********.
To be fair I don't see the difference in the display. I understand that from technical POV it's better but I can't feel this difference.
And I see a lot of disadvantages. Pretty much all of them were expected right after presentation and only got confirmed when I got the laptop and used it for several months.
- The keyboard is awful. It's loud and the worst - loudness is not uniformed. Mistyping is hugely noticeable when I almost never mistyped on the previous ones. It's the first time in 10 years I think about getting external keyboard for the laptop. Still struggling though and hoping I will adapt.
- Touch Bar is awful. I touch it accidentally numerous times a day. They've removed Cmd Shift Power combination and I had to add Lock button on the Touch Bar. Wherever I put it I accidentally push it sometimes. Not feeling Esc is awful, I mistype it twice very often. The fact that Touch Bar turns off fast to save battery is not comfortable - if I want to change volume or Lock the Mac I have to activate it somehow first. Had it added any cool features I'd disregard all of described but for me it literally added nothing - and I tried using it quite extensively.
- Trackpad size is awful. I accidentally touch it whenever I type. I accidentally touch its left side when trying to do something on it with the right hand resulting in the wrong gestures or cursor not moving.
- Choice of iGPU is awful. I feel moments where there is not enough performance of iGPU and it literally lags. I feel the battery gets drained much faster because more deeds require switching to dGPU. Compared to my similar MBP 2015 it gets drained much faster on similar mid-stressful load.
- Size of battery. It gets drained noticeably faster than MBP2015 for me.
- Lack of MagSafe. I kind of half-solved it by using Griffin Break-safe cable but it's still not the same and it provides only 60W of power instead of 87W. And it's ugly.
At the very least I want the same laptop without Touch Bar and with Iris Pro iGPU and layered battery (as in MB). Then I'd prefer previous keyboard to return (or this one to be fixed) and trackpad to be shrunk horizontally. Last I'd prefer display resolution to be increased physically not in software as it was.
All in all I wouldn't have bought late 2016 model myself. I got it from my employer that's why I still have it (changing it is kind of a bureaucracy hell). Had it been my own money - **** you Apple - I would return it in an instant.
And I haven't even started talking about 32GB and QA issues known throughout this forum. I had one myself (two keyboard buttons haven't worked sometimes in the first days but then they somehow got fixed and I haven't noticed this issue anymore - for the price this one costs that's outrageous to say the least).
Lack of TB3 docks is a one more sad story... I've preordered mine in the beginning of December with promise to be delivered in February. Expected to be delivered in the middle of April at the very least and I fear the date will be shifted again to the end of May.
P. S. IMHO MBP late 2013 was the last MBP worth the money. Surprisingly, I expect (more like hope) 2017's MBs and MBPs will be worth the money again.
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Haha, I would love them to do that, but it just seems they're headed another way with their current business model. Honestly, though, they just needed to add the RAM increase option to the top-tier 15", nothing more. Knowing Apple, they would have offered it for an insane price, but I would still have been ok with it. I know we are not such a negligible minority from our point of view, but that's probably because we are very likely to know lots of other folks doing our same job and having similar needs.I'm not sure we are that small a minority. The guy in that post I linked to was talking of thousands of physicist users. I know folks in diverse fields from data science, to genetics, to metabolomics etc etc who all want 32GB laptops. Maybe Apple shoudl capitalise this market and release a ScienceBook lol .....can you image the price
So basically the 2015 rMBP 15" (non GPU version) with updated hardware in the new chassis.
I would really want it as well, but Intel stopped making quad-core mobile CPUs with GT3e or higher graphics
Skylake does have them. And Apple had opportunity to use them in late 2016 - they were available for like half a year by that time. It's just that the cost would've skyrocketed for at least 100-200 more $.So basically the 2015 rMBP 15" (non GPU version) with updated hardware in the new chassis.
I would really want it as well, but Intel stopped making quad-core mobile CPUs with GT3e or higher graphics
I believe CoffeeLake will have them as per roadmap. So had Apple used them in late 2016 and then waited 1.5 years for the next release like they did since May 2015 until November 2016, they would be able to provide them in both releases.
Had they only removed TouchBar and inserted Iris Pro iGPU and layered battery without reverting the keyboard, I'd be OK with current chassis. Current battery only sucks IMHO because switching to dGPU happens more often. I understand that the battery is smaller but they had made some optimisations I believe so without switching to dGPU more often it would be OK.
But overall... yes, had they provided MBP 2015 chassis along with 2015 keyboard with TB3 ports and updated hardware - I'd buy this and not rant about MBP 2016.