Alarmingly High CPU Temperature on 2020 27" iMac

[mj_]

You know what, that's it. I'm out. I've had a whole post already typed explaining how a CPU operated at 99.7 °C might only last 161 instead of 168 years, and how statistics contradict CPU death by temperature, yaddah yaddah yaddah. But I have now come to accept that it is utterly pointless do waste any more of my time in here. This thread has reached the point of breathtakingly stupid conspiracy theories, and quite frankly my time is too valuable to argue with conspiracy theorists on the internet.

Peace. I'm out.

 

[1229175]

You know what, that's it. I'm out. I've had a whole post already typed explaining how a CPU operated at 99.7 °C might only last 161 instead of 161 years, and how statistics contradict CPU death by temperature, yaddah yaddah yaddah. But I have now come to accept that it is utterly pointless do waste any more of my time in here. This thread has reached the point of breathtakingly stupid conspiracy theories, and quite frankly my time is too valuable to argue with conspiracy theorists on the internet.


View attachment 945579

Peace. I'm out.

This was entirely unnecessary and not beneficial to this thread. Please avoid posts like this in the future on these forums.

 

[jobinhosyntax]

You know what, that's it. I'm out. I've had a whole post already typed explaining how a CPU operated at 99.7 °C might only last 161 instead of 161 years, and how statistics contradict CPU death by temperature, yaddah yaddah yaddah. But I have now come to accept that it is utterly pointless do waste any more of my time in here. This thread has reached the point of breathtakingly stupid conspiracy theories, and quite frankly my time is too valuable to argue with conspiracy theorists on the internet.


View attachment 945579

Peace. I'm out.

Farewell traveller, godspeed

 

[SWolfe]

I don't think there will ever be a perfect MAC even the AS will have issues for some people. I think if Apple had installed a 2nd Fan then all we would be reading all day long on the forum is ITS TOO LOUD!!!!!! When I put my face directly up to where the fan vents are I occasionally hear a fan! I'm returning this death trap of a computer and never buying another Mac again. These have not been out in wild long enough for anyone on either side of this argument to speak in absolutes. Let's give it a few weeks guys before we start Fan Gate.

 

[1229175]

I don't think there will ever be a perfect MAC even the AS will have issues for some people. I think if Apple had installed a 2nd Fan then all we would be reading all day long on the forum is ITS TOO LOUD!!!!!! When I put my face directly up to where the fan vents are I occasionally hear a fan! I'm returning this death trap of a computer and never buying another Mac again. These have not been out in wild long enough for anyone on either side of this argument to speak in absolutes. Let's give it a few weeks guys before we start Fan Gate.

I understand some here are complaining about fan noise, but in all honesty, I have an air purifier right next to me so iMac's single fan doesn't bother me even at 2700 RPM.

My issue with this 2020 27" iMac is Heatgate.

 

[mlykke]

This was entirely unnecessary and not beneficial to this thread. Please avoid posts like this in the future on these forums.

Tbh your repeated "it's a joke" hyperbole is not beneficial to neither the thread nor the forum. It's pointless complaining about something without even thinking about the basic physics behind your complaint. In the end, the iMac is clearly not the right product for you. Just leave it at that instead of repeating yourself constantly and ignoring any kind of input you get.

 

[mlykke]

My issue with this 2020 27" iMac is Heatgate.

There is no heatgate. You're just trying to make a problem where there is none. Until we hear about peoples computers actually breaking down due to overheating, then it's a non-issue. It's running within the allowed specs as specified by Intel.

 

[jobinhosyntax]

There is no heatgate. You're just trying to make a problem where there is none. Until we hear about peoples computers actually breaking down due to overheating, then it's a non-issue. It's running within the allowed specs as specified by Intel.

Fair point. I suppose people are aware of throttling on the i9, which is less than ideal, and could've been mitigated with more cooling. Still it's a powerhouse.

 

[1229175]

Tbh your repeated "it's a joke" hyperbole is not beneficial to neither the thread nor the forum. It's pointless complaining about something without even thinking about the basic physics behind your complaint. In the end, the iMac is clearly not the right product for you. Just leave it at that instead of repeating yourself constantly and ignoring any kind of input you get.

Consider looking up the definition of "hyperbole" I wasn't making an exaggerated statement. An $1,800–$8,800 computer that can't maintain a greater buffer between CPU temperature under load reached within one minute and maximum safe operating temperature is a non-exaggerated, literal joke.

I believe the test results I've shared and the statements I've made have been beneficial to users here considering whether the 2020 27" iMac is the correct choice for them. If you don't agree that I've shared any useful information, you are free to discontinue your participation in this discussion.

Personally, I now see, after this testing, that the 2020 27" iMac is not the correct choice for me.

 

[mlykke]

Consider looking up the definition of "hyperbole" I wasn't making an exaggerated statement. An $1,800–$8,800 computer that can't maintain a greater buffer between CPU temperature under load reached within one minute and maximum safe operating temperature is a non-exaggerated, literal joke.

If you can't see that what you're saying is hyperbole then I suggest that you look it up again. Then you can look up "literal", followed by "joke".

I personally now see, after this testing, that iMac is not the correct choice for me.

That is the most sensible thing you've added to this thread so far and just about the only thing that haven't been hyperbole and trying to drum up a storm.

 

[SWolfe]

All I am saying to everyone is I think it’s too early to start canceling orders or send them back. Everyone should at least take a few day’s to test the machine under their work loads and not from 1 video.

 

[getrealbro]

We had been eagerly awaiting the 2020 iMac to replace my wife’s aging 2013 iMac.The plan was to go with the 3.8GHz 8 core i7. But now I’m not so sure the 2020 iMac’s cooling will be quiet enough. Our alternative is a 2018 Mini like mine….

For comparison:
This is my 2018 Mini 3.2 GHz 6 core i7 running Cinebench 2.0 with several items running in the background, including two instances of VLC capturing 1080p RTSP feeds. Yes I can hear the fan when the Mini is under full load. But it is not annoyingly loud even at full speed.

Attachments:


Bench1.jpg —Core temps run around 60c with the fan at roughly 1,700 rpm under a light to modest load.


Bench2.jpg — Under full load…
All 6 cores increase very quickly to Turbo boost then drop back down.
All 6 core temps rise quickly and stay at just under 100c.
Fan speed increases rapidly to roughly 4,000rpm.


Bench3.jpg — Core temps rapidly drop back down to roughly 60 when the load is removed


Bench4.jpg — Fan speed drops back to 1,700rpm fairly quickly.

I’d like to see some more benchmarks like this for various 2020 iMac configurations.

GetRealBro

 

[mlykke]

We had been eagerly awaiting the 2020 iMac to replace my wife’s aging 2013 iMac.The plan was to go with the 3.8GHz 8 core i7. But now I’m not so sure the 2020 iMac’s cooling will be quiet enough. Our alternative is a 2018 Mini like mine….

See, thats the problem with some users trying to cause a problem where there is none. Everybody all of the sudden don't know what to think based on FUD statements.

All computers will require a fair amount of cooling if they are run at max load for a period of time - The same goes for the iMac. That doesn't mean it's extremely load. And most likely your computer will never be at 100% load unless you do 3D rendering and similar workloads.

In another thread somebody posted the following:

I had the opportunity to try the latest 2020 iMac (10-core, 5700XT) and took a measurement of the produced noise sitting in front of it at normal operating position (about 18" from the computer) in a small room with very low noise: at idle it was 26 dBA; at mid load 30 dBA and at max load 42 dBA.

40db is considered the volume of a quiet library. Based on those measurements it seems to be a non-issue. In the end you have 14 days to return the computer if you don't like it. So I would buy it and do your own testing. My experience form countless of other macs and iMac's tells me that there is no issue and that it will be more or less completely silent 99,9% of the time.

 

[1229175]

All computers will require a fair amount of cooling if they are run at max load for a period of time - The same goes for the iMac.

One of the issues is that this is happening within one minute in some tests.

 

[CWallace]

I think if Apple had installed a 2nd Fan then all we would be reading all day long on the forum is ITS TOO LOUD!!!!!!

The iMac Pro is pretty much universally considered to be "silent" even under full CPU and GPU load (at least for the 8-10 core models) and it has two fans.




Apple almost certainly went with their existing cooling system because this is likely the last Intel-powered iMac 5K that will be produced and they were not interested in doing the work necessary to design and test a dual-fan cooling system.

Apple Silicon should bring fundamental improvements to Mac cooling, both because a high-performance AS SoC should run cooler than Intel's high-performance CPUs and because Apple will have direct knowledge with how an AS SoC generates heat and can design their cooling systems around it.

 

[mlykke]

One of the issues is that this is happening within one minute in some tests.

In a benchmark test designed to load the system as much as possible. Any CPU under max load will increase in temperature immediately and therefor requires cooling quite fast. Nothing you are saying is a problem - It's physics. As long as everything is running within specs then it's a non-issue.
And deciding to get a computer based on how the fans speed up when running an artificial workload such as a benchmark is just plain dumb. Decide based on how the computer will be in actual real life use and then decide if it's the right product for you or not.

 

[getrealbro]

See, thats the problem with some users trying to cause a problem where there is none. Everybody all of the sudden don't know what to think based on FUD statements.....

Actually, I first became concerned about the adequacy of the 2020 iMac’s cooling system when I read/saw the tear-downs that indicated that Apple had not increased the cooling despite having beefed up the CPU and GPU options.

As I said in my post I’d like to see some DATA that convinces me that the 2020 iMac’s cooling system can handle the loads like Cinebench and/or HandBrake. I know my 2018 i7 Mini can; the question is can a 2020 i7 iMac do it?

FWIW I use HandBrake to transcode roughly 40GB/day of RSTP video from .ts to .mp4. This pushes my i7 Mini harder than Cinebench. I was hoping to off load some of the transcoding to a 2020 i7 iMac as the 2nd user, while my wife uses it for basic email, browsing, etc. That won’t work if the fan gets too loud

GetRealBro

 

[CWallace]

As I said in my post I’d like to see some DATA that convinces me that the 2020 iMac’s cooling system can handle the loads like Cinebench and/or HandBrake. I know my 2018 i7 Mini can; the question is can a 2020 i7 iMac do it?

I have a 2017 iMac 5K with the i7 and an RX580 and when I use Handbrake to turn a Blu-ray rip into an Apple TV M4V file and load all four-cores / eight-threads my fans ramp quickly to max RPM. If your workload maxes out the cores/threads of the CPU, I would fully expect the 2020 iMac to do the same.

 

[1229175]

Actually, I first became concerned about the adequacy of the 2020 iMac’s cooling system when I read/saw the tear-downs that indicated that Apple had not increased the cooling despite having beefed up the CPU and GPU options.

As I said in my post I’d like to see some DATA that convinces me that the 2020 iMac’s cooling system can handle the loads like Cinebench and/or HandBrake. I know my 2018 i7 Mini can; the question is can a 2020 i7 iMac do it?

FWIW I use HandBrake to transcode roughly 40GB/day of RSTP video from .ts to .mp4. This pushes my i7 Mini harder than Cinebench. I was hoping to off load some of the transcoding to a 2020 i7 iMac as the 2nd user, while my wife uses it for basic email, browsing, etc. That won’t work if the fan gets too loud

GetRealBro

100º C within 90 seconds of starting a transcode in HandBrake.

 

[CWallace]

100º C within 90 seconds of starting a transcode in HandBrake.

Which makes sense as all your cores are maxed out and it is air-cooled.

Even with liquid cooling, the i7-10700K will approach 70º C under full load - https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-10700k-processor-review,5.html

 

[1229175]

Which makes sense as all your cores are maxed out and it is air-cooled.

Even with liquid cooling, the i7-10700K will approach 70º C under full load - https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-10700k-processor-review,5.html

I wish this was at 70º C. 100º C is way too high. I'd even be happy at 85–90º C.

 

[xgman]

Apple had no choice but to opt for high-performance high-power chips to satisfy the performance-hungry crowd of semi-professionals and professionals looking for the best bang for the back.

Classic blame the victim!

 

[wilberforce]

Running Cinebench on my 2014 iMac i7 (the original iMac 5K retina, with quad-core 22 nm processor), all cores reach 99C within 10 seconds and fan speed reaches 2670 rpm. So I am not quite following what is so much worse now, compared to the original iMac 5K retina. I guess I will have to compare with my 2020 iMac which is supposed to be delivered tomorrow

 

[quagmire]

Fair point. I suppose people are aware of throttling on the i9, which is less than ideal, and could've been mitigated with more cooling. Still it's a powerhouse.

What throttling has there been so far with the 10910? Or are you referring to the 9900K in the last gen?

Also what is your definition of thermal throttling? This was a discussion when the 9900K was put in the iMac last year, that people thought it running at 3.6 Ghz with all cores loaded was thermal throttling. That isn't thermal throttling as that is the advertised base clock with all cores loaded. They would cite PC side showing all core speed of around 4.7 Ghz. That was because Intel allowed the 9900K to go above its 95W TDP if users chose to fully unleash it. Apple on the other hand kept the 95W leash on the 9900K hence when you loaded more cores the lower the clockspeed was. Anandtech tested this and confirmed the behavior. 9900K unleashed and allowed to break the 95W rating was able to sustain 4.7 Ghz all cores loaded. They then limited it to 95W and it dropped to 3.6 Ghz all cores loaded. In my testing, all cores loaded saw 3.8 Ghz if fan left in auto and 3.9 Ghz if fan manually set at 2700 RPM. So my testing still saw the 9900K above base clock with all cores loaded and chewing away at 16 threads.

Thermal throttling is when the CPU has to go below base clock to prevent damage. Thermal throttling is not when it can't run at its turboboost speed when fully loaded.

 

[CWallace]

Anandtech tested this and confirmed the behavior. 9900K unleashed and allowed to break the 95W rating was able to sustain 4.7 Ghz all cores loaded. They then limited it to 95W and it dropped to 3.6 Ghz all cores loaded.

I know the i9-10900K has been shown to draw over 300W with all cores at ~5GHz and needs a very capable liquid cooling system to operate at that speed. As I recall, Anandtech also needed to use very capable liquid cooling on the 9900K because it had to be well into the triple-digits on wattage.