All iPhone 16 Models Sold Outside U.S. Still Have Physical SIM Card Tray

[lordhamster]

I've just came from Thailand and Japan, local SIMs are cheaper (or a little more expensive but in return way more data).

And definitely in the UK you'll get better for your money with a British SIM on a smaller network.

Another thing I discovered. If you ran out of data on your eSIM abroad, you're completely dead until you find free WiFi. And even then, some countries block eSIM services like Airalo to top up, so you are effing screwed. Especially in China. Thank God I had a VPN to bypass and top up. That's one country you're better off with a local SIM.

Anyway, I like eSIM but I want SIM tray as backup. Thank God I live in a country (UK) that I can have the best of both worlds.

Regarding the Expense of eSims... there is no arguing, in general travel eSims are more expensive than local options. That said... you are paying for convenience. Not having to worry if that airport kiosk is open, not having to worry about a language barrier, or currency etc... just turn your phone on when you land.

In Japan specifically, I used Holafly (to test it out) on my son's phone back in July. It have him "unlimited" high speed data for the week we were there, and was like $27. Yes, that IS expensive.... but my time on my vacation is worth something to me as well. Not having to futz with finding a local sim, made it worth the upcharge for me.

As for China...we were there before Japan. I disagree with a local sim being better in China because:

• Censorship - Most western apps from Gmail through Whatsapp and discord that my son uses simply don't work on Chinese Sims or Chinese wifi. A travel eSim bypassed the great firewall of china without the need a VPN.
• Running out of Data - Seems like a combination of poor planning and or poor vendor UI. You should be sure to top off your data BEFORE it runs out, especially if it is mission critical for you. Also, not a bad idea to have a backup eSim. I like Roamless as their business model is you pay a price up front to bank in your account. Usage is pay as you go and it never expires. Roamless is expensive in China, but in a pinch you could turn on the roamless sim long enough to top off your other provider. If data is mission critical, definitely don't rely on just one provider.
• VPN - This is a must have for China IMO. Nord and Express didn't work for me while I was there. I was able to use my Google FI data connection to download Mullvad which works brilliantly there.
• eSim tray as a backup - I agree with you in theory. My last phone with a physical sim tray was iPhone 12 Pro Max. That phone could only have one eSim active at a time. Which meant that If I wanted imessage etc to continue working while I used an eSim, I needed my primary US provider to be on a physical sim. Conversely, if I has my US provider on an eSim, then I needed to find a physical sim everywhere I went... so travel esim provders were off the table. For me the best of both worlds would be the ability to have two eSims active AND a pSim slot to use in a pinch. Dunno if iPhone 13 supported that or not. Anyone know which Android phones can do that?
• My General preference is to have good native roaming. Google FI has been amazing for this over the years. I had 50GB of high speed data to use pretty much world-wide. No messing with local or even travel eSims needed. Only native roaming that comes close in convenience and price is AT&T's Business Elite lines which come with 7 free travel passes per month per line.... which give you unlimited high-speed data for 7 days free, then charge an outrageous $10/day.
• My Current setup (post summer travel) is Visible+. While it does have the option for 1 free day pass and then $10/day.... that option is stupid. Instead I'll just pair it with one of the zillions of travel eSim providers out there. Plus I'll still have my Roamless eSim as well as the Visible native option in my back pocket if things go sideways with my esim provider... planning ahead for contingency for the win.

 

[Beau10]

but my time on my vacation is worth something to me as well.

This isn't much of an issue for people whose travel is comprised of vacations - you're doing an activity that is by definition usually expensive and sporadic.

Keep in mind there's a large contingent of folks who live abroad in various locations for months at a time and the difference of having/not having a sim slot can amount to hundreds of dollars in extra service fees per year, and this is esp. acute if part of the reason one is doing this travel is economic (ie. living in Thailand in a $400/month apartment, spending $40 for 30 days of cell service - instead of a week of groceries - hurts a bit). The inconvenience of figuring out how to make that first purchase at a convenience store/kiosk and do re-ups with an app, just like locals do, is part of the experience of becoming integrated into where they'll be living.

 

[lordhamster]

Apart from the ease of seeing-buying-installing pSims now, I don't agree.

Sooner rather than later there'll just be online lists of competing eSim carrier/MVNO apps per country/region that you can download local eSims, pay, install at the same prices as pSims. We're not there yet, but this will obviously be a lot easier than pSims as you can be anywhere and get one, including remote locations with no physical stores selling pSims – even get before you go, or if there already connect to any WiFi to download and install.

eSimDB.com
You can thank me later.

 

[lordhamster]

This isn't much of an issue for people whose travel is comprised of vacations - you're doing an activity that is by definition usually expensive. Keep in mind there's a large contingent of folks who live abroad in various locations for months at a time and the difference of having/not having a sim slot can amount to hundreds of dollars in extra service fees per year, and this is esp. acute if part of the reason one is doing this travel is for economical reasons (ie. living in Thailand in a $400/month apartment). The inconvenience of figuring out how to make that first purchase at a convenience store/kiosk is part of the experience of becoming integrated into where they'll be living.

I agree with you 200%

Long term stays abroad of 90+ days (aka living in a place) is where "Travel" sims don't make sense... nor are they designed to. I think that MOST of the posts in this thread have been predicated on the idea of "Travel" which I would define as short-term personal/work trips. If you are in a country for 90+ days MOST countries in the world no longer consider you a "tourist" or traveler.

eSim only is great for "travelers" and bad for "expats."

Definition of both terms thanks to OpenAI below:
----

1. Traveler​

• Purpose: Travelers are primarily on short-term visits for leisure, work, or adventure. Their goal is usually to explore new places, cultures, or complete a specific task (e.g., work assignment, business trip).
• Duration: Temporary stays, ranging from days to a few months.
• Mindset: Travelers often view their stay as temporary and typically plan to return to their home country or move on to another destination. They immerse themselves in local experiences but with the understanding that it’s a short-term engagement.

2. Expat (Expatriate)​

• Purpose: Expats relocate to live and work in a foreign country for an extended period, often for professional or personal reasons such as a job transfer, retirement, or a desire for a long-term experience in another culture.
• Duration: Long-term stays, often for several years or indefinitely, though they still maintain a legal or emotional connection to their home country.
• Mindset: Expats may seek to integrate more deeply into the local community, learning the language and customs, but they often maintain aspects of their home culture, and many still view their stay as somewhat temporary, with plans to potentially return home.

In summary, while a traveler is more of a short-term visitor exploring a place, an expat tends to live in a foreign country for a longer period, often due to work or life changes.

 

[ThomasJL]

This is about Tim Cook's insatiable corporate greed.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I really dislike eSIM. Having to go through my carrier to ask them to connect the service I pay for to the phone I also paid for is slimey. AT&T wanted to charge me to provision my M4 iPad on eSIM, luckily the store manager agreed to waive it.

eSIM is an excuse to nickel and dime customers under the guise of innovation.

 

[jasonsmith_88]

My telco in Australia requires me to visit a physical store to move an e-SIM to a new device. They also keep closing stores because money. And how do I get a new e-SIM if I drop my phone abroad (which is an absolute necessity, as every bank uses SMS MFA)? Easy, just spend a few thousand dollars on a last minute flight back to Australia!

e-SIM is a huge regression with almost zero benefit. “Oooh you can provision a new number on the spot without having to visit a physical store” oh yeah that’s going to be useful for the 3 times in my life I’ll be switching telcos in my home country. “Oooh you can provision a travel e-SIM before getting to a country” I’ve never had any difficulty obtaining a SIM card at any airport - literally every airport I’ve ever been to has a kiosk selling SIM cards.

The fact that people in the US need to buy a second phone if they want to travel long-term in insanity. e-SIM is a failed standard. Invent a better one (that doesn’t require the telco to move sims between devices) or bring back the SIM slot.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The fact that people in the US need to buy a second phone if they want to travel long-term in insanity. e-SIM is a failed standard. Invent a better one (that doesn’t require the telco to move sims between devices) or bring back the SIM slot.

this ^^

100% agree

Basically it's just an attempt to bring back control over activations and transfers on the carrier side. It's no surprise Apple has been trying this first in the USA, probably while getting some back door money from the carriers who hate just being a commodity service.

 

[lordhamster]

My telco in Australia requires me to visit a physical store to move an e-SIM to a new device. They also keep closing stores because money. And how do I get a new e-SIM if I drop my phone abroad (which is an absolute necessity, as every bank uses SMS MFA)? Easy, just spend a few thousand dollars on a last minute flight back to Australia!

e-SIM is a huge regression with almost zero benefit. “Oooh you can provision a new number on the spot without having to visit a physical store” oh yeah that’s going to be useful for the 3 times in my life I’ll be switching telcos in my home country. “Oooh you can provision a travel e-SIM before getting to a country” I’ve never had any difficulty obtaining a SIM card at any airport - literally every airport I’ve ever been to has a kiosk selling SIM cards.

The fact that people in the US need to buy a second phone if they want to travel long-term in insanity. e-SIM is a failed standard. Invent a better one (that doesn’t require the telco to move sims between devices) or bring back the SIM slot.

The fact that your Australian carrier is run by morons doesn't mean the technology is at fault. Here in the US, there are plenty of cheap-ass MVNO carriers that make getting an eSim on your phone instant and super easy anywhere at any time.

In the past year, I've played with a number of MVNOs (trying to find which underlying carrier has the best coverage where I am). Visible which is the one I'm currently on makes it dead simple. Install the app... click a button and bam eSim installed.

US Mobile which I've used previously makes it even easier... you don't even need their app, you can use any computer to log in ... pop in your other phone's IMEI and just scan a QR code... or use the app for easy instant installs. This is particularly cool for US Mobile as you can "teleport" to another underlying carrier... they support all three major US carriers. You can do this as often as you want based on which carrier has best reception... all via eSims if you want it instantly, or via physical sim if you want to wait for snailmail.

Cricket another provider I tried same thing... instant eSim install.



With eSim, I can easily replace both a broken phone OR a LOST Physical sim (people lose the damn things all the time). If your physical sim becomes corrupted or lost on your trip, you are out of luck Mr. Physical sim. I'll be back up and running in seconds with my US based eSim-based carriers..

The technology is fantastic. The implementation in many places is **** currently because of carrier incompetence.

As far as getting Sims in airports... you've clearly never:

• Landed on a severely delayed flight where all of the stores in the airport were closed on arrival. Ironically this is likely when you MOST need a working phone
• Landed at many US airports for example don't have sim card stand available: https://www.traveltomtom.net/destinations/north-america/usa/best-prepaid-usa-sim-cards
• Landed at a remote island or smaller regional airport... these are places where these stands often don't exist.
• Landed at a location with a machine that won't accept your credit card or currency.

In short, getting a sim at an airport is often the best way to go, but there are countless times when this isn't an option.

 

[lordhamster]

I really dislike eSIM. Having to go through my carrier to ask them to connect the service I pay for to the phone I also paid for is slimey. AT&T wanted to charge me to provision my M4 iPad on eSIM, luckily the store manager agreed to waive it.

eSIM is an excuse to nickel and dime customers under the guise of innovation.

Sounds like a you problem. You choose to buy from a carrier that treats you like garbage. There are hundreds of choices out there. This has Zero to do with eSim technology and everything to do with your greedy garbage-tier carrier. Even on the AT&T network (if that is a requirement) there are many choices.

Go to: https://www.bestphoneplans.net/plans?networks=att for voice/data lines
OR: https://www.bestphoneplans.net/data-only-plans?filters=data-plan-tablet&networks=att for plans that specifically run on the AT&T network, support iPad, MOST of which do eSim with no provisioning fees.


If you only need data on your iPad "sometimes" Roamless a "travel" provider which runs on AT&T and can be provisioned quickly, for no fee, never expires and only costs you money when you use the connection.

Among "Travel" intended eSims there are also HUNDREDS of options... may of which will run on AT&T: https://esimdb.com/usa

 

[The1Biz]

This is about Tim Cook's insatiable corporate greed.

Sorry, but that's literally his job. Did you expect anything different?

In business school, you learn the CEO's job is to maximize shareholder value.

If he's not doing that, he's getting fired.

That's how publicly traded companies work in America. I don't agree with it, but that's how things are done.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Sounds like a you problem. You choose to buy from a carrier that treats you like garbage. There are hundreds of choices out there. This has Zero to do with eSim technology and everything to do with your greedy garbage-tier carrier. Even from AT&T there are many choices.

Sure, blame me for the bad experience that I received from a massive corporation.

In your linked page, exactly none of them deliver the value that I am getting from my current AT&T plan. I'm not sure why you'd think I'm incapable of shopping around - I already did all that and chose AT&T.

That doesn't change the fact that anyone charging a fee for something so trivial as changing the value stored on a table somewhere is slimey.

eSIM supposedly makes this easier - download the app, log in, and go, right? - except that the Carriers have decided not to implement things that way.

I'd like to add that the carrier employees took care of me right away, I didn't have to pay a dime. Corporate policy might be to screw the customer but the guys on the ground put the customer first.

 

[lordhamster]

Sure, blame me for the bad experience that I received from a massive corporation.

In your linked page, exactly none of them deliver the value that I am getting from my current AT&T plan. I'm not sure why you'd think I'm incapable of shopping around - I already did all that and chose AT&T.

That doesn't change the fact that anyone charging a fee for something so trivial as changing the value stored on a table somewhere is slimey.

eSIM supposedly makes this easier - download the app, log in, and go, right? - except that the Carriers have decided not to implement things that way.

I'd like to add that the carrier employees took care of me right away, I didn't have to pay a dime. Corporate policy might be to screw the customer but the guys on the ground put the customer first.

Fair enough. I’m curious. What kinda deal are you getting with postpaid AT&T? I’m in the market for new iPad data since I left Google Fi I no longer get the free data for my iPad.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Fair enough. I’m curious. What kinda deal are you getting with postpaid AT&T? I’m in the market for new iPad data since I left Google Fi I no longer get the free data for my iPad.

Unlimited data for the tablet for ~$22. Deprioritized when I hit something like 40GB. It's important that I still have a data connection since I'm always working on the go.

Mobile hotspot doesn't cut it - my phone is with Fi, and that hard throttle at 50GB is brutal. AT&T's tablet plan doesn't require a phone line.

 

[Fat_Guy]

If I live in the US what's the best way to get a European iPhone 16 with the SIM card slot? eBay?
It will still work in the US, right?

Just buy one from Canada. Many ways to do that…

 

[jimthing]

If I live in the US what's the best way to get a European iPhone 16 with the SIM card slot? eBay?
It will still work in the US, right?

ebay.co.uk

 

[lordhamster]

Just buy one from Canada. Many ways to do that…

Clarifying question on the Canadian one. Does it have the capability to have:
A) two eSIMs active simultaneously when not using the physical slot.
Or
B) can only use the eSIM and physical sim at the same time?

Reason I ask is 99% of the time I’d want to use two eSIMs in dual sim capacity (DSDS). However on a very rare occasion if I wanted to pop in a physical sim I’d want to be able to use it with one of the eSIMs active

Update. Looks like it is option a) which is good. I guess downside is you lose mmWave capability which may be worth the trade off given how tiny the mmWave footprint is.

 

[Konrad]

It’s right down disgusting. But as someone mentioned, it does work (somewhat) in the US only. A never deregulated market where consumers are treated much as if this was a dictatorship state. Where is the consumer protection here? US society is so alarmingly complacent, it is often hard to believe how easily they comply with this and other nonsense. Even in China this would never fly. They know better in Cupertino not to mess with Europe. If they just as only mentioned this, the European Commission would crucify it by lunchtime. Fight for your rights!

 

[ric22]

Sure, blame me for the bad experience that I received from a massive corporation.

In your linked page, exactly none of them deliver the value that I am getting from my current AT&T plan. I'm not sure why you'd think I'm incapable of shopping around - I already did all that and chose AT&T.

That doesn't change the fact that anyone charging a fee for something so trivial as changing the value stored on a table somewhere is slimey.

eSIM supposedly makes this easier - download the app, log in, and go, right? - except that the Carriers have decided not to implement things that way.

I'd like to add that the carrier employees took care of me right away, I didn't have to pay a dime. Corporate policy might be to screw the customer but the guys on the ground put the customer first.

The "eSIM is all anyone on the planet needs and it is cheaper and better for 100% of people" crowd are hilarious. Comedy gold. 😂😅 Don't worry about them.

 

[lordhamster]

It’s right down disgusting. But as someone mentioned, it does work (somewhat) in the US only. A never deregulated market where consumers are treated much as if this was a dictatorship state. Where is the consumer protection here? US society is so alarmingly complacent, it is often hard to believe how easily they comply with this and other nonsense. Even in China this would never fly. They know better in Cupertino not to mess with Europe. If they just as only mentioned this, the European Commission would crucify it by lunchtime. Fight for your rights!

Calm down there Karl Marx.... there are literally hundreds of other phones you could choose from. Nobody is forcing you to buy the phone. If you don't like the choices Tim Apple makes, vote with your wallet.

We don't need the state regulating every minute detail of our lives. Given that there are so many phones out there with physical sim slots... I just don't see a valid argument for the kind of regulation you are calling for.

I'd rather have old school replaceable batteries regulated back into existence if we go down that rabbit hole.

 

[tangfish]

The "eSIM is all anyone on the planet needs and it is cheaper and better for 100% of people" crowd are hilarious. Comedy gold. Don't worry about them.

Absolutely. They approach the “debate” as if it’s an either/or proposition, when in fact including a physical SIM tray has zero effect on those who prefer to use eSIM.

We get it, you guys don’t travel to undeveloped areas of the world and thus don’t benefit from the flexibility a SIM tray oftentimes gives those who do. Now ****!

 

[The1Biz]

Absolutely. They approach the “debate” as if it’s an either/or proposition, when in fact including a physical SIM tray has zero effect on those who prefer to use eSIM.

We get it, you guys don’t travel to undeveloped areas of the world and thus don’t benefit from the flexibility a SIM tray oftentimes gives those who do. Now ****!

I've also thought of it this way, at least in the USA with regard to eSIM:

Apple benefits by making the phone more waterproof, thinner, and with less parts.

Carriers benefit by controlling phone activation and charging people for swaps which they could easily do themselves before. Travelers are especially affected by this.

The government benefits since if there is a crime committed they know exactly with what phone probably down to the IMEI. They can also have the carrier shut it down.

I really don't see customers benefiting unless it was always absolutely 100% free to use.

I remember similarly wanting to activate cellular on my watch. It's a $30+ fee just to activate. They already have my phone account, all my info, it's all done without a physical SIM. Why do I have to pay this fee?

 

[lordhamster]

I've also thought of it this way, at least in the USA with regard to eSIM:

Apple benefits by making the phone more waterproof, thinner, and with less parts.

Carriers benefit by controlling phone activation and charging people for swaps which they could easily do themselves before. Travelers are especially affected by this.

The government benefits since if there is a crime committed they know exactly with what phone probably down to the IMEI. They can also have the carrier shut it down.

I really don't see customers benefiting unless it was always absolutely 100% free to use.

I remember similarly wanting to activate cellular on my watch. It's a $30+ fee just to activate. They already have my phone account, all my info, it's all done without a physical SIM. Why do I have to pay this fee?

I agree 100% that having 2 eSim AND 1 Physical sim is the best option. However I think y'all really need to reevaluate your carriers if you are being charged these activation fees. It is important to not conflate the benefits of the technology with the crappy implementation and financial practices of some carriers.

In the Past year, I've used:
1. Google FI
2. Visible
3. US Mobile
4. Cricket
5. A Half dozen Travel eSims (Airalo, Holafly, Roamless, Saily, Vodafone)

All in the hunt for the best price / coverage at my home for when my Wifi dies. NONE of them charged me any eSim activation fees. It was smooth and instant activation on each. Heck, with my current Visible+ plan I'm paying $35/month for unlimited data on the Verizon network (Unlimited Priority on UWB, 50GB priority then simply deprioritized on regular 5G/LTE), and it comes with free Apple watch LTE service at that price. No activation fees... nuthin'

 

[GB1970]

I still use a physical sim card and change the phone my card is used in regularly which is hard/impossible to do with an eSim. I have a "disposable" phone for when I do adventurous activities and my expensive phone for day to day use. If I only have an eSim I would be forever reactivating the esim!

Let us have a choice!

 

[jimthing]

I still use a physical sim card and change the phone my card is used in regularly which is hard/impossible to do with an eSim. I have a "disposable" phone for when I do adventurous activities and my expensive phone for day to day use. If I only have an eSim I would be forever reactivating the esim!

Let us have a choice!

Maybe, but moving activations gets quicker all the time, and is almost trivial in many markets.