Alleged Leaked CAD Image Suggests 'iPad mini 5' Will Just Be a Specs Bump

[joeblow7777]

Agreed. But again, 3 years to swap to new CPU? They let it age out to 4.5 years old. Timmy could not care less about Apple products.

To be fair, the Mini 4 still runs really well on iOS 12. If they had released a new model every year, they would have been incremental and largely unnecessary upgrades as cash grabs. I really don't think that it's been necessary to update the Mini 4 before now.

However, they absolutely should have reduced the price! Charging basically the same thing that they did when it launched in 2015 is ridiculous.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

To be fair, the Mini 4 still runs really well on iOS 12. If they had released a new model every year, they would have been incremental and largely unnecessary upgrades as cash grabs. I really don't think that it's been necessary to update the Mini 4 before now.

However, they absolutely should have reduced the price! Charging basically the same thing that they did when it launched in 2015 is ridiculous.

When it launched in late 2015, the $399 base model came with 16 GB, while 64 GB was $499 and 128 GB was $599.

A year later, the $399 base model went up to 32 GB and the 128 GB model came down to $499, ditching 16 and 64 GB.

Then in early 2017 with the advent of the cheaper 9.7-inch iPad (5th gen), the 128 GB iPad mini 4 was brought down even further to the $399 price point, ditching 32 GB.

So it actually went down $200 in under 2 years. However, there's not been another change in price or storage since. A further $50 reduction last year when the 6th gen iPad was introduced would have seemed reasonable.

 

[trillionaire]

XR vs XS vs XS Max. 319 iPad vs the 10.5" Pro. The thing you're saying doesn't happen, happens often with Apple.

I don't understand how that relates. The XR is a weaker version of the XS and XS Max, which are flagships and thus more expensive. The iPad Pro is a more powerful machine and thus more expensive than the standard iPad. These are targeting different users; it's not cannibalism but marketing.

If you were to make the XR with the exact same specs as the XS and sell it cheaper then you would be doing what I said shouldn't happen and what companies don't do.

 

[joeblow7777]

When it launched in late 2015, the $399 base model came with 16 GB, while 64 GB was $499 and 128 GB was $599.

A year later, the $399 base model went up to 32 GB and the 128 GB model came down to $499, ditching 16 and 64 GB.

Then in early 2017 with the advent of the cheaper 9.7-inch iPad (5th gen), the 128 GB iPad mini 4 was brought down even further to the $399 price point, ditching 32 GB.

So it actually went down $200 in under 2 years. However, there's not been another change in price or storage since. A further $50 reduction last year when the 6th gen iPad was introduced would have seemed reasonable.

Right, when you look at storage options, which they limited. That's why I said that the price has "basically" been the same. The bottom line is that you've never been able to get a Mini 4 from Apple for less than $399. Even if that gets you more storage now (whether you want/need it or not) that's still ridiculous. $399 for a nearly 5 year old mini-tablet is over-priced, especially when they offer a newer, faster 9.7" model with a lower entry price. It has not made sense to buy a Mini 4 at full price for some time now.

 

[DevNull0]

To be fair, the Mini 4 still runs really well on iOS 12. If they had released a new model every year, they would have been incremental and largely unnecessary upgrades as cash grabs. I really don't think that it's been necessary to update the Mini 4 before now.

But that's not the point when you're buying new hardware. My gaming PC has an i7-4790k CPU. Around 4 years out of date but it runs modern games extremely well. I will not be upgrading it anytime soon. But nobody in their right mind would buy a new computer with that 4 year old chip now unless it were a fire-sale discount. Even though you won't see much real world difference.

Similarly, I have a GTX 1070 in the machine. A previous-gen GPU that's now a few years behind the current chips. It does the job fine and I have no desire to upgrade. But any new computer based on it is going to be in the discount bin.

However, they absolutely should have reduced the price! Charging basically the same thing that they did when it launched in 2015 is ridiculous.

The thing is their actual production costs won't have fallen that much. They're still giving you a newly CPU, ancient as the tech is, a brand new screen, etc....all that stuff is going to cost almost as much as it did when the mini 4 launched. Switching to a 5 year newer CPU is not going to significantly alter Apple's cost to produce the iPad. Every other hardware vendor in the world can keep all their products fairly up to date. Why can't the most valuable company in the world?

 

[joeblow7777]

But nobody in their right mind would buy a new computer with that 4 year old chip now unless it were a fire-sale discount. Even though you won't see much real world difference.

That's exactly my point. While the Mini 4 still performs very well, it makes no sense to buy one at full price in 2019, or really since 2017. But apparently enough people still did to justify Apple continue to sell them without a real price reduction (only upping the storage that you get at the price) or feeling the need to update before now.

The fact that they are updating it (if rumours prove true) might suggest that A8 devices aren't going to be supported with major OS updates much longer

 

[MrUNIMOG]

Right, when you look at storage options, which they limited. That's why I said that the price has "basically" been the same. The bottom line is that you've never been able to get a Mini 4 from Apple for less than $399. Even if that gets you more storage now (whether you want/need it or not) that's still ridiculous. $399 for a nearly 5 year old mini-tablet is over-priced, especially when they offer a newer, faster 9.7" model with a lower entry price. It has not made sense to buy a Mini 4 at full price for some time now.

Only for about a year now, ever since the 6th gen iPad was introduced. Before that, the iPad mini price given the single storage option kind of made sense, I'd say.
At that point though, they should've maybe reintroduced the 64 GB model at 299 $ (still pretty high considering the 329 $ A10 iPad, but going lower would have probably cut the margin too much) and dropped the 128 GB model to something 350-ish.

 

[saytheenay]

The screen on the 9.7" is much worse than the iPad Air 2. C[r]ook again taking a good product and making it worse.

I'll pick up a mini 4 when the 5 comes out if he does it again (just like I picked up a 2015 13" MBP in 2016 when the 12" MacBook came out with that still-terrible keyboard). Timmy is consistent when he compromises quality and features in everything he "innovates".

 

[kazmac]

Spec bump including more RAM & pencil capabilities is all I want.

I loved the Mini 4 and would be quite happy if they use the same chassis & screen. Though I’d understand if the screen becomes non-laminated.

 

[SteveW928]

It has not made sense to buy a Mini 4 at full price for some time now.

Unless you need that form factor. If so, what was the other choice? We bought one for my son, despite it being older.

... The thing is their actual production costs won't have fallen that much. ... Switching to a 5 year newer CPU is not going to significantly alter Apple's cost to produce the iPad. Every other hardware vendor in the world can keep all their products fairly up to date. Why can't the most valuable company in the world?

Absolutely. In fact, if the newer chips are going into all the other current models, it probably costs less than making runs of an older chip for one product. This wouldn't be quite the same if it were made by a 3rd party (ie: more arbitrary pricing) like Intel. But, Apple just has these things made for them so it just costs what it costs to be manufactured.

Why can't they keep it updated? Because they don't have a ton of pressure on them to do so. Apple is getting lazy.

The fact that they are updating it (if rumours prove true) might suggest that A8 devices aren't going to be supported with major OS updates much longer

Well, I think the main thing that limits compatibility has been the RAM. I suppose eventually the CPU/GPU feel slow enough that people want to move on. But, the RAM has been the go/no-go factor. I think the RAM in the mini is similar to several newer iPhone models, so it probably has another iOS update or two left in it (or, Apple will decide to move on and also exclude several newer devices, which is possible, I suppose).

 

[joeblow7777]

Unless you need that form factor. If so, what was the other choice? We bought one for my son, despite it being older.

As I said, it doesn't make sense "at full price". Retailers other than Apple sometimes have sales, and sometimes even buying secondhand isn't a bad choice.
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Well, I think the main thing that limits compatibility has been the RAM. I suppose eventually the CPU/GPU feel slow enough that people want to move on. But, the RAM has been the go/no-go factor. I think the RAM in the mini is similar to several newer iPhone models, so it probably has another iOS update or two left in it (or, Apple will decide to move on and also exclude several newer devices, which is possible, I suppose).

I disagree that RAM is the determining factor. Apple always drops support for chip generations, even if devices with a given chip have different amounts of RAM, and devices with same RAM but newer chips live on. For example, the iPhone 5 (A6 Chip) with 1 GB of RAM is not supported with iOS 12, but A7 devices with 1 GB of RAM are, such as the iPhone 5s and iPad Air.

When A8 devices like the Mini 4 are dropped, chances are that newer devices with the same RAM like the 6th gen iPad will still be supported. Apple won't stop supporting a device that came out in 2018 at the same time as one that came out in 2015.

 

[SteveW928]

As I said, it doesn't make sense "at full price". Retailers other than Apple sometimes have sales, and sometimes even buying secondhand isn't a bad choice.

Oh, sure, it would be best to get it on sale, if possible. I can't recall if we paid full price or not, but that isn't the point. My son needed one, so the only real option was to get the mini as it is, or get the newer/better 9.7" iPad. Technologically and in terms of value, I actually tried to talk him into the 9.7", but he still opted for the mini.

When it comes to stuff like this (form factor, actual usability, etc.) it isn't about 'what's under the hood' and price as much as it is about what works best

I disagree that RAM is the determining factor. Apple always drops support for chip generations, even if devices with a given chip have different amounts of RAM, and devices with same RAM but newer chips live on. For example, the iPhone 5 (A6 Chip) with 1 GB of RAM is not supported with iOS 12, but A7 devices with 1 GB of RAM are, such as the iPhone 5s and iPad Air.

When A8 devices like the Mini 4 are dropped, chances are that newer devices with the same RAM like the 6th gen iPad will still be supported. Apple won't stop supporting a device that came out in 2018 at the same time as one that came out in 2015.

Hmm, I haven't looked at it for the most recent iOS updates (and model exclusions), but RAM has been pretty much the determining factor in the past. Maybe the CPU/GPU are starting to play a more important role in the experience... but having owned older and newer devices, I think RAM would still be a bigger factor. Maybe they just *finally* have enough RAM that it isn't currently a factor.

re: Apple wouldn't - the problem is that they are increasingly selling old models to hit more budget-friendly price points, rather than a feature-stripped model. So, instead of buying less capability, you're rally buying a shorter lifespan with the savings... so you're maybe not really saving much money, if any. That kinda sucks, so I'm really against Apple on that one (hence why I complain when these machines aren't updated regularly).

Apple was still selling, if I remember correctly, one of the mini or iPad 2 models (as new) after an iOS had already been released that effectively excluded it. So, don't think Apple really cares so much about that kind of thing anymore.

 

[joeblow7777]

Apple was still selling, if I remember correctly, one of the mini or iPad 2 models (as new) after an iOS had already been released that effectively excluded it. So, don't think Apple really cares so much about that kind of thing anymore.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think that Apple has ever sold an iOS device as new that didn’t run the most current version of iOS.

You can look into when various models stopped being supported and again I could be wrong, but I think that you’ll find that it’s always been based on processor generation, not RAM. As with the examples I mentioned above, devices stop receiving updates while other models with the same RAM but newer processors continue. For example, right now 1GB devices like the iPad Air, and iPhone 5s and 6 are still supported and able to run the current OS while other 1GB devices with weaker processors like the iPad 4 and iPhone 5 aren’t.

Mark my words, the life of the Mini 4 will end with the other A8 devices (iPhone 6 and 6 plus) which will be before newer 2GB devices like the iPhone 6s, 7, 8, and 5th and 6th Gen iPad’s.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

I could be wrong, but I don’t thing that Apple has ever sold an iOS device as new that didn’t run the most current version of iOS.

You can look into when various models stopped being supported and again I could be wrong, but I think that you’ll find that it’s always been based on processor generation, not RAM. As with the examples I mentioned above, devices stop receiving updates while other models with the same RAM but newer processors continue. For example, right now 1GB devices like the iPad Air, and iPhone 5s and 6 are still supported and able to run the current OS while other 1GB devices with weaker processors like the iPad 4 and iPhone 5 aren’t.

Mark my words, the life of the Mini 4 will end with the other A8 devices (iPhone 6 and 6 plus) which will be before newer 2GB devices like the iPhone 6s, 7, 8, and 5th and 6th Gen iPad’s.

You are right, Apple never sold a device as new after ceasing software support, or even up to that point, with two exceptions:

• The original Apple TV was discontinued with the release of the 2nd gen and Apple TV Software 4.0 which didn't support it (2nd gen switched from x68 to ARM).
• The 3rd gen Apple TV continued to sell for about a year after the release of the 4th gen and tvOS, which didn't support it. However that was an entirely new OS, and the classic Apple TV Software still got patches after that.

Other than that, there's not been a single Apple Device in at least the past two decades that has been sold after or even until support being dropped as far as I'm aware.

However, if Apple now updates iPad mini and iPod touch, that's still half a year before the next major iOS release which might drop them.

I expect iOS 13 to still support A8 devices, though. I don't think after supporting the iPhone 5s with 6 major releases (6 years), they'd back down on that with iPhone 6.
I do see a slight possibility if iOS 13 introduces groundbreaking UI changes, that Apple might find it requiring more than 1 GB of RAM to run sufficiently, thus excluding iPhone 6 and 6th gen iPod touch, but given that even the fairly recent iPhone 8 came with just 2 GB, I think they'll do their best to avoid iOS 13 becoming a RAM hog.
I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of iOS 13 dropping the A8 entirely, based on CPU/GPU performance considerations, but seeing how well these devices run iOS 12, there should be quite a bit of headroom still.

My guess:

• 6th gen iPod touch (A8 clocked lower, performance comparable to A7, battery life constraints) dropped with iOS 13
• iPhone 6 and 6 Plus supported by iOS 13, dropped with iOS 14
• iPad mini 4 (A8 clocked higher, 2 GB RAM) supported by iOS 13, dropped with iOS 14 or even later
• iPad Air 2 (A8X with three CPU cores, 2 GB RAM and doubled GPU, performance comparable to A9) supported by iOS 13, probably supported by iOS 14 still, perhaps even longer.

I might however be completely wrong. Even that obscure report claiming even A9 devices to be dropped with iOS 13 might be accurate, which however seems extremely unlikely.

 

[hojoon0724]

It’s what a lot of people have been asking for. People like the Mini the way it is, but the A8 is nearly 5 generations old.

I think the implied question is why haven't they done it earlier?

 

[joeblow7777]

I think the implied question is why haven't they done it earlier?

I touched on this in a previous comment. I don't really think it was necessary or cost effective for Apple. The Mini 4 still performs very well. I think that only incremental upgrades could have been made without raising its price too much.

 

[boss1]

If its just a spec bump then why even update it after all these years?

Exactly...
Samsung Galaxy W sports a 7” display
IPad mini 4 was a 7.9 in display
Why bother with a spec bump instead getting rid of the bezel?