Alternative iOS App Stores Only Work for 'Grace Period' When Traveling Outside of EU

[Analog Kid]

This feels like a lot of needless complexity. I’d hate to be the developers working on these features.

Yeah, it would have been nice if Europe learned from radio certifications and media licensing and didn't force regionality, but here we are. Netflix doesn't offer the global programming because of licensing restrictions outside each region. Your WiFi radio reconfigures itself depending on where you are. So will your App Store because Europe wanted its own laws.

 

[spazzcat]

Neither do you.

I know what MS was doing in the 90s, and Apple isn't even close to it.

 

[EvianCA]

As a EU user, I am piss off. Has anyone asked users what they want? I prefer comfort. Having a unique App Store that offers privacy and security is essential. I don't want iOS to end up like Mac OS. MacOS offers an App Store but that many companies do not use because they do not want to pay a commission to Apple or have to accept certain technical conditions. For the user it means having several softwares (I am looking at you Microsoft, Adobe, sec) installed on my Macbook with different update programs that require going one after the other to update, in addition to being working in the background. That's not to mention security and privacy...

Here the problem is not DCMA, it's just an excuse. The underlying problem is who takes our money. No one, not even Apple, is thinking about us. I understand that Apple receives a commission (it's fair since Apple made billion-dollar investments in creating it) but Apple could reach an agreement and receive less compensation if it really thought about users in the EU. Companies that want to use Apple's platform have two options: either pay or set up their own platform. Complaining is not the solution. Since they don't want/can (it's called entry barriers that exist in other industries) they use the EU lobby to achieve their purposes. Just like Apple, thinking about them and not about the users.

And the EU if they are so concerned about Apple's dominant position, why don't they look at other industries where the same things happen but the dominant companies are European?

 

[Analog Kid]

Apple will back down on this because it's clearly contrary to the law.

How is it contrary to the law? Laws don't extend beyond territorial borders unless supported by international agreement. This is why gambling restrictions and drinking ages change once you enter international waters.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

I'm just wondering how many billion euros this little stunt is going to end up costing Apple.

First, not really complying with the law in the first place. Alternative app stores isn't really what anybody wanted, we just want to be able to install software normally, the thing some of you call "side loading". We don't want to use any app store at all, just go to GitHub or a developer's website, download an app, and install it.

Instead of that simple thing, instead of just downloading a .ipa file and installing it, Apple pulls this stupid app store garbage. I'd just jailbreak, but that doesn't work for modern iPhones and unlike Apple not blocking normal installs, can actually be dangerous.

I'm hoping it's at least in the tens of billions of euros. It needs to be enough to actually hurt.

 

[Analog Kid]

As a EU user, I am piss off.

As a non-EU user, I'm happy they're restricting this nonsense as tightly as they can.

 

[bigjnyc]

This behaviour from Apple is making me consider not buying an iPhone when it's time to upgrade.

way to fight the good fight! you show them!


I on the other hand will happily continue to buy iPhones since this does not affect me or anger me in any way, shape, or form.

 

[MilaM]

I know what MS was doing in the 90s, and Apple isn't even close to it.

Apple is much worse. Windows never prevented you from installing the software you wanted or tinker with the OS to make it work for you.

 

[treacher]

way to fight the good fight! you show them!


I on the other hand will happily buy continue to use iPhones since this does not affect me or anger me in any way, shape, or form.

You're amazing!

 

[spazzcat]

I'm just wondering how many billion euros this little stunt is going to end up costing Apple.

First, not really complying with the law in the first place. Alternative app stores isn't really what anybody wanted, we just want to be able to install software normally, the thing some of you call "side loading". We don't want to use any app store at all, just go to GitHub or a developer's website, download an app, and install it.

Instead of that simple thing, instead of just downloading a .ipa file and installing it, Apple pulls this stupid app store garbage. I'd just jailbreak, but that doesn't work for modern iPhones and unlike Apple not blocking normal installs, can actually be dangerous.

I'm hoping it's at least in the tens of billions of euros. It needs to be enough to actually hurt.

It will not cost Apple anything first; if the EU fines Apple for breaking the law, it will give them time to mitigate, seeing how this is all new. Second, I am willing to bet Apple is doing this to keep people from selling activated phones in the EU to people outside of the EU. Also, Apple is not required to enforce EU law outside the EU.

 

[spazzcat]

Apple is much worse. Windows never prevented you from installing the software you wanted or tinker with the OS to make it work for you.

No, they didn't allow OEMs to sell any OS other than MS or install any other OS on their hardware. Apple makes the hardware and the software, so it isn't the same thing.

 

[MilaM]

No, they didn't allow OEMs to sell any OS other than MS or install any other OS on their hardware.

As a user I still had all the freedom. So from a consumer perspective it was not such a big problem.

Now try to install another OS on an iPhone. It's possible on Mac hardware. But the amount of reverse engineering needed is mindboggling. It's a miracle some very talented Linux developers were able to make it work on Apple Silicon.

 

[bzgnyc2]

Mac OS is one of the least succesful operating systems on the market, what are you even talking about? It only beats stuff like ChromeOS and that is not even something to be proud of.

In the meantime, iOS is one of the biggest operating systems in the world, absolutely dwarfing Mac OS, it is not even close.

?? macOS is the #2 desktop OS on the market -- 2nd to Windows which has dominated the desktop market for 30 years.

In that time, some estimates are that "macOS usage has more than quadrupled from Jan. 2009 to Dec. 2020 to 30.62%" (from Wikipedia). Statcounter shows a surprising shift back to Windows since 2023 but still holding at 25%. No other OS has come closer to challenging Windows for the desktop market in 30 years.

Otherwise comparing OS volumes across different market segments doesn't make sense. Should Oracle just release their database for the iPhone since its volume alone dwarfs the volume of all the server platforms they do support?

 

[spazzcat]

As a user I still had all the freedom. So from a consumer perspective it was not such a big problem.

Now try to install another OS on an iPhone. It's possible on Mac hardware. But the amount of reverse engineering needed is mindboggling. It's a miracle some very talented Linux developers were able to make it work on Apple Silicon.

You have "freedom", but you still paid for a Windows license no matter what, so MS got their money.

 

[UliBaer]

You have "freedom", but you still paid for a Windows license no matter what, so MS got their money.

Wait, we didn't pay for iOS on *our* iPhones? Shocking! 😲

 

[MilaM]

You have "freedom", but you still paid for a Windows license no matter what, so MS got their money.

If I remember correctly, the Windows licensing cost was in the low tens of dollar.

So, if I could pay say 50 USD to Apple, and have in exchange the freedom to go wild with installing Linux on my iPhone, I would take that deal. Better than to have no rights at all.

 

[Beautyspin]

The lack of ability to update apps while not in the EU is not good enough. It introduces a security hole, as security updates will be parked until the person returns to the EU.

This will affect tens of thousands of cross-border workers, and students like my daughter who is from Ireland, but goes to college in the UK. Ireland is not the only country with a land border with non-EU countries, or who imports/exports students. There will be many people adversely affected by this.

And this from a company that's supposed to be all in on security!

I think they are worried that people from other regions will just select one of the EU countries as their address and start using the alternate app stores. In fact, if the alternate app stores work well, a majority of them might use this workaround. I think Apple is plugging this loophole in advance. They are quite good at this type of criminal thinking, I guess.

 

[j26]

I think they are worried that people from other regions will just select one of the EU countries as their address and start using the alternate app stores. In fact, if the alternate app stores work well, a majority of them might use this workaround. I think Apple is plugging this loophole in advance. They are quite good at this type of criminal thinking, I guess.

Absolutely, and it's understandable they would legitimately want to restrict this, but it creates a problem for mobile people who move regularly between the EU and other states.
Whatever about downloading new apps, security updates of already purchased apps should be facilitated, irrespective of location.

 

[spazzcat]

If I remember correctly, the Windows licensing cost was in the low tens of dollar.

So, if I could pay say 50 USD to Apple, and have in exchange the freedom to go wild with installing Linux on my iPhone, I would take that deal. Better than to have no rights at all.

I have a degree in computer science and have been programming for 25+ years. The last thing I would want to do is mess up my phone. You can't just install any OS on your phone without losing critical phone operations that only exist in a few phone OS. You can use Android or iOS. And if you want to use Andriod that bad, you have many options.

 

[MysteriousStain]

I wonder if this discussion would be less polarised if Apple didn’t promote such ill-will towards itself with its memory and storage upgrade prices.

 

[gnipgnop]

First, not really complying with the law in the first place. Alternative app stores isn't really what anybody wanted, we just want to be able to install software normally, the thing some of you call "side loading". We don't want to use any app store at all, just go to GitHub or a developer's website, download an app, and install it.

FYI: the EU required alternative app stores and not the scenario you're describing. Apple is not going to be fined for that.

 

[Beautyspin]

Can anyone running Android actually confirm that DesiMunda's post is even slightly accurate, because I don't have an Android and never have, and so really wouldn't know what it's like!

I am a recent convert to Apple universe and before that had Android phones.
You have several app stores. For instance, Amazon has an app store. There is an app store for only open-source apps (F-droid). I get my ad blockers from there.
Samsung has an Appstore.
You can install directly from websites by downloading apk files. This is possibly an entry point for malware if you are not careful about the website from where you download the apks. Same as downloading dmg from website.
I never had a malware problem while using Android for 10+ years.
Bloat is something no one can resist. Samsung phones have Samsung apps, which many might not use. My iPhone has lot of first party apps that I do not use (Maps, Music, etc). They are a bloat for me and I do not know if I can uninstall them.

 

[MilaM]

I have a degree in computer science and have been programming for 25+ years. The last thing I would want to do is mess up my phone. You can't just install any OS on your phone without losing critical phone operations that only exist in a few phone OS. You can use Android or iOS. And if you want to use Andriod that bad, you have many options.

I also don't have a desire to do it with my main phone. I have an old iPad Air 2 lying around though. It's become very slow lately due to the latest iOS updates. I would love to repurpose it to use it for my Smart Home setup. Unfortunately it's not possible, because it's completely locked down. In my book ... worse than Microsoft.

 

[gnipgnop]

LOL at Epic. They yell and scream about the App Store for multiple years and fail to have something available on Day 1 when they get what they wanted.

 

[1129846]

more malicious compliance from Apple. I am expecting to hear the EU going to start fining Apple soon at this rate.