Alternative iOS App Stores Only Work for 'Grace Period' When Traveling Outside of EU

[gnipgnop]

Bloat is something no one can resist. Samsung phones have Samsung apps, which many might not use. My iPhone has lot of first party apps that I do not use (Maps, Music, etc). They are a bloat for me and I do not know if I can uninstall them.

And now you know. You can remove 32 1st party apps from your iPhone. You're welcome.

Remove or delete apps from iPhone

Remove or delete apps from your iPhone. If you change your mind, you can download the apps again later.

support.apple.com

 

[Beautyspin]

Honestly, one of the most annoying things about Samsung phones was having more than one store (Samsung + Play). I also tried other stores, such as the Amazon store when they gave away free apps frequently and that was annoying too. If people are excited about having more stores that is awesome, but I wonder if the day will come when carriers start trying to figure out how to inject crummy stores on users.

All of that said, it does appear that Apple has done everything in their power to make third party app stores more complicated than they are to begin with. See here is the thing, third party app markets on mobile devices are nothing like just getting software from wherever as you are used to on Mac, Linux, or Windows. Mobile apps are sandboxed differently and at least on Android it made for a very inconsistent user experience depending on where an app was acquired.

Having app stores offering the same apps is an issue. However, if the app stores offer something different, then they are welcome. For instance, If MacPaw (which is planning to open an app store) offers the same apps as they offer in the app store then that app store is not a value add unless they have apps that have more functionality or cheaper. However, if EPIC games has a store, then you have to install it if you want their games. Similarly, there may be a store for a particular category (kids app store) then it is easier to get the apps from that store for that particular category.
It is not always bad. If you listen to Vstager, you can understand the EUs rationale.

 

[1129846]

The lack of ability to update apps while not in the EU is not good enough. It introduces a security hole, as security updates will be parked until the person returns to the EU.

This will affect tens of thousands of cross-border workers, and students like my daughter who is from Ireland, but goes to college in the UK. Ireland is not the only country with a land border with non-EU countries, or who imports/exports students. There will be many people adversely affected by this.

And this from a company that's supposed to be all in on security!

This is an example of the Security reason screaming by Apple is a complete and utter lie and pure FUD.
People screaming that this is a security issue for Apple and the App store keeps them safe I would argue I ahve magic beans to sell them. If the app store is needed to keep iOS secure then iOS is not a secure OS.

 

[Karma*Police]

I think it’s insane that people are rooting for the government to bully companies instead of just voting with their wallets.

If a 3rd party App Store is so important, don’t buy an iPhone. Simple. But we all know this is a non-issue for the vast majority of consumers.

But it’s a great excuse for the EU to steal more money from the private sector because we know their voracious appetite for our hard earned money is insatiable.

 

[Zest28]

?? macOS is the #2 desktop OS on the market -- 2nd to Windows which has dominated the desktop market for 30 years.

In that time, some estimates are that "macOS usage has more than quadrupled from Jan. 2009 to Dec. 2020 to 30.62%" (from Wikipedia). Statcounter shows a surprising shift back to Windows since 2023 but still holding at 25%. No other OS has come closer to challenging Windows for the desktop market in 30 years.

Otherwise comparing OS volumes across different market segments doesn't make sense. Should Oracle just release their database for the iPhone since its volume alone dwarfs the volume of all the server platforms they do support?

Android, Windows, iOS, Linux are all used way more than Mac OS.

Mac OS is at the bottom of number of users.

 

[thebeans]

The lack of ability to update apps while not in the EU is not good enough. It introduces a security hole, as security updates will be parked until the person returns to the EU.

This will affect tens of thousands of cross-border workers, and students like my daughter who is from Ireland, but goes to college in the UK. Ireland is not the only country with a land border with non-EU countries, or who imports/exports students. There will be many people adversely affected by this.

And this from a company that's supposed to be all in on security!

It’s simple. Just don’t install apps from the alternative stores. There’s a bazillion apps on the tel App Store. Do you really need something else from another store?

 

[gnipgnop]

This is an example of the Security reason screaming by Apple is a complete and utter lie and pure FUD.
People screaming that this is a security issue for Apple and the App store keeps them safe I would argue I ahve magic beans to sell them. If the app store is needed to keep iOS secure then iOS is not a secure OS.

FYI: corporations lock down the laptops/phones they give to employees for security purposes. You're typically limited to downloading/installing things that are in a corporate portal and have been approved for that by the IT department.

 

[NagasakiGG]

I don't get it, why don't they roll out the feature for anyone? Why don't they let users decide what they want and what not?

 

[gnipgnop]

If you listen to Vstager, you can understand the EUs rationale.

The first thing that Vestager talks about (paying in-app versus paying on a web site) has never been supported by the evidence. Spotify started out on desktop/laptop operating systems in 2006 so they have always had a web payment system in place. Their service predates iOS and Android. And at the time of Spotify's complaint to the EU, they had 99% of their iOS subscribers paying via internet without any communications in-app.

 

[spazzcat]

Android, Windows, iOS, Linux are all used way more than Mac OS.

Mac OS is at the bottom of number of users.

I would not mix device, embedded or server OS with desktop OS. From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

Category	Source	Date	Linux	UNIX and Unix-like (not incl. Linux)	Windows	In‑house	Other
Desktop, laptop	StatCounterGlobal Stats[266]	June 2023	Linux kernel family 7.23%: ChromeOS4.15% (in the US up to 8.0%) plus traditional "Linux"3.08%	21.38% (macOS)	68.15% (all versions)		3.24%

 

[MilaM]

But it’s a great excuse for the EU to steal more money from the private sector because we know their voracious appetite for our hard earned money is insatiable.

You could say the same thing about Apple and app publishers. Just replace EU with Apple.

 

[bzgnyc2]

A high level of security can continue to be maintained with alternate app stores thanks to app signing and sandboxing. This fight was never about security.

And I would argue that comprehensive sandboxing is a better security model than a guarded app store. The App Store is clearly not curated -- submissions are a at best screened -- and there's no way for Apple to prevent all apps with hidden agendas from getting onto the app store. The "Allow App to Access" controls are a good start and Apple's customers would have been better served by investing further there.

 

[webkit]

I know what MS was doing in the 90s, and Apple isn't even close to it.

That can depend on what a company or person wants/needs. In the 1990s, for example, a consumer could buy a disk/CD-ROM or download the Navigator browser directly from Netscape or get it through a wide number of software stores for use on a Windows machine. Apple was (and still is in most countries) preventing consumers from doing similar (accessing apps for iOS) outside the App Store. I can't download Firefox for iOS anywhere but through the App Store and even at that, it doesn’t have the Gecko engine.

 

[Beautyspin]

The first thing that Vestager talks about (paying in-app versus paying on a web site) has never been supported by the evidence. Spotify started out on desktop/laptop operating systems in 2006 so they have always had a web payment system in place. Their service predates iOS and Android. And at the time of Spotify's complaint to the EU, they had 99% of their iOS subscribers paying via internet without any communications in-app.

The following is Spotify's version. They were hounded by Apple, but you will not know that because it was done in private.

Timeline - Time to Play Fair

www.timetoplayfair.com

 

[webkit]

No, they didn't allow OEMs to sell any OS other than MS or install any other OS on their hardware. Apple makes the hardware and the software, so it isn't the same thing.

That's not entirely true. Computer makes could've chosen not to go with Windows and used Linux, BeOS or some other alternative. Also, end users were able to install alternative operating systems on their computers. Can I install Android on my iPhone?

 

[webkit]

You have "freedom", but you still paid for a Windows license no matter what, so MS got their money.

And iPhone buyers paid for an iOS license as part of the total price of the iPhone.

 

[Beautyspin]

You aren’t making a point at all. You’re trying to justify your position by ONLY listing Adobe, Microsoft, or Autodesk. Those verifiably legitimate and secure apps from reputable developers does NOT mean a system is NOT less secure by allowing side-loading. For every reputable developer you mentioned…there‘s a shady one as well and you seem to be ignoring that. The simple fact that something that ISN’T legitimate or reputable can be downloaded easily…makes it less secure. macOS and Windows are inherently less secure due to the simple fact that software can be downloaded from anywhere.

You mean just like the shady apps that are in the App Store?

Apple App Store Is Home To Scam Apps: What We Know!

If you’ve been the victim of a scam app sold on the Apple App Store, you may have legal options. Learn more today!

mccunewright.com

84 dangerous scam apps found on iPhone App Store stealing your money; check full list of apps

Nearly 7 million iPhone users are in danger from these 84 scam apps on Apple App Store. Known as fleecewear, they are stealing money and must be deleted from phones.

tech.hindustantimes.com

Beware of scammers! Dangerous apps in the App Store

Dangerous investment-apps in the App Store take users’ personal data and hand it to phone scammers.

www.kaspersky.co.in

 

[treacher]

App Store approvals are the same kind of sideshow you get at airport security.

 

[spazzcat]

That's not entirely true. Computer makes could've chosen not to go with Windows and used Linux, BeOS or some other alternative. Also, end users were able to install alternative operating systems on their computers. Can I install Android on my iPhone?

I will never understand this argument. Before you buy an iPhone, you know it will only run on iOS; if you want Andoird, you will buy one of the many different phones that come with it. You also understand that the iPhone is a closed system before you buy one. You make your choice before you buy the phone as a consumer.

 

[CarAnalogy]

hmmm... isn't all your information outdated or soon to be outdated since you no longer use any of their products?

Also, your socialization seems to revolve around the negative since you seemingly have nothing positive to say about the company. Not sure how healthy that is.

If Apple and their products aren't right for you, I think it's great that you got them out of your life.

You do you, but maybe consider getting them out of your head too?

PS. We appreciate your crusade to save us, but look around... there are plenty of Apple skeptics around here.

I’m not actually the one you replied to. It was just an Office joke. They were having brownies and he came in there just to tell them how bad brownies are for them, and someone asked him why he even came in there.

 

[bzgnyc2]

FYI: corporations lock down the laptops/phones they give to employees for security purposes. You're typically limited to downloading/installing things that are in a corporate portal and have been approved for that by the IT department.

That's because they own it and want to control it.

In this case it's my phone and I own it and want to control it.

 

[j26]

The following is Spotify's version. They were hounded by Apple, but you will not know that because it was done in private.

Timeline - Time to Play Fair

www.timetoplayfair.com

Really interesting to see how long the Spotify issue was going on.

Now that the DMA is coming into force, hopefully these type of issues will be dealt with much faster, one way or the other.

 

[Beautyspin]

No one is forcing them into an ecosystem.

Reality number 1. They are the most secure phones on the market. We don't need to rehash the malware debate here, but Android suffer pretty badly.

And they have clearly addressed your concerns about app security here:

"..risks from installing software from unknown developers that are not subject to the Apple Developer Programme requirements, installing software that compromises system integrity with malware or other malicious code, the distribution of pirated software, exposure to illicit, objectionable and harmful content due to lower content and moderation standards, and increased risks of scams, fraud and abuse."​

They also lose their rights on open Internet when they go to certain countries. Women also lose rights when they go to certain countries. But let's worry about downloading the latest porn from your favourite side loading app store shall we?

Perspective people, it's downloading an app when you have been out of the country for 2+ months!

Reality check, they are not.

Is iOS really more secure than Android?

Which is better for corporate mobile communications security-wise: iPhone or Android device?

www.kaspersky.co.in

 

[Antoniosmalakia]

I am a recent convert to Apple universe and before that had Android phones.
You have several app stores. For instance, Amazon has an app store. There is an app store for only open-source apps (F-droid). I get my ad blockers from there.
Samsung has an Appstore.
You can install directly from websites by downloading apk files. This is possibly an entry point for malware if you are not careful about the website from where you download the apks. Same as downloading dmg from website.
I never had a malware problem while using Android for 10+ years.
Bloat is something no one can resist. Samsung phones have Samsung apps, which many might not use. My iPhone has lot of first party apps that I do not use (Maps, Music, etc). They are a bloat for me and I do not know if I can uninstall them.

I think you can delete Music and Maps, at least. Hold your finger on the display on the home screen, and the apps will wiggle and each should have a button in the top left* corner, which once pressed will give several options. Delete is one of them.

Thank you for your experiences of Android. It does seem, judging by the responses I've had, that most people don't really have issues. I appreciate you (and the others) for taking the time to answer my question.

 

[MilaM]

I will never understand this argument. Before you buy an iPhone, you know it will only run on iOS; if you want Andoird, you will buy one of the many different phones that come with it. You also understand that the iPhone is a closed system before you buy one. You make your choice before you buy the phone as a consumer.

I'm certain, that's what Tim Cook and other execs at Apple think. But how do you know if consumers are really aware of this aspect of iOS. Maybe they buy iPhones because it's a fashion statement, because of blue chat bubbles, or because they think the camera is great, or maybe because they perceive it as a means to belong to an in group?