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Am I Being a Dick?

I think it's a little brash to label me as controlling just because I want better for my girlfriend. I never said she couldn't do that job, or that I wouldn't support it. Just because I didn't get all gung ho enthusiastic about it and voiced legitimate (very legitimate) concerns doesn't make me controlling. Should I also support her if she wants to be an exotic dancer? After all, it's her time and her money, why should I object? I'd be controlling, right? The peanut gallery would stand 110% behind their SO doing that job too, right? Where do you draw the line? Surely you want your kids to go to college and get good jobs, right? Would wanting the best and steering your kid towards it be controlling as well?

The point I was trying to make is that the job is a waste of her potential. She can do better for herself, and I want her to do better for herself, just as anyone else would want for their SO or their kids. I know what she's thinking the job is like, and I know my culture and people and tax system and economic situation, and I know hers as well having spent three years here. I have a pretty solid understanding of what she's up against, and I'm trying to mitigate potential problems that can arise later. I truly don't think she will be happy doing that job, certainly not beyond a year or two. I want something for her that engages her brain, and I know she will get nothing but brain rot in that job. I'm concerned about these things primarily.

Call me what you will, but yes there is a financial aspect to it as well. When you grow up poor, you damn well remember it the rest of your life. My sister never seemed to get the memo, given her bankruptcy she's going through now. You vow to never, ever be in that position again. There has GOT to be something else she likes that pays better than McDonald's money. Her time is more valuable than that; she's done enough in life and been enough places and worked hard enough for her time to be worth more than $10/hr. I refuse to believe there is no compromise between her happiness and something actually worth her time. I don't think there's anything wrong with having some standard for aspirations in your SO.

--It's a waste of her potential
--It isn't worth her time
--High chance of extreme dissatisfaction
--Dead end/no advancement
--Brain rot
--It puts a financial strain on both of us

I want what's best for her, and I don't think I need to veil that I want what's best for both of us too.

As an aside, every single person on this website is materialistic to a degree; there's just a difference between who knows it and who doesn't, or doesn't want to. Nobody who isn't materialistic spends $1k+ on a luxury computer. I know my place and I'm comfortable with it, even if it isn't popular.
 
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I think you're looking at it a little black and white. Just because she goes to college for hotel management doesn't necessarily mean that she has to do it for the rest of her life (or even at all). Other opportunities could present themselves along the way. She could meet someone in college or even at work that could move her in a different direction.

For instance, I worked part time at a Day Care center a few years ago trying to get experience to become an elementary school teacher. I didn't necessarily care for teaching but I knew I was good at it. Well, I met one of the parents of the kids who needed a Website built for him. I told him that Web design was a hobby of mine, got him as one of my first clients, and now I am an in house Web designer for a local business in Miami, FL.

It's hard to bank on some random occurrence that could happen, but they DO happen. Opportunities present themselves everyday, we just have to keep aware and take hold of them when they arrive. I don't think you are being a dick, just have an open mind.
 
puma1552 said:
Money is the number one cause of divorce
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More precisely, I would say that arguing about money is, which you seem interested in pursuing. Your harping on this is far more likely to put strains on the relationship. Why don't you just learn to let go a little and let her set her own individual goals and pursue them for now, as a stepping stone to something else down the line until she feels more comfortable in a new country. You underestimate her lack of confidence in her language abilities and the big step of emigrating, being far out of her comfort zone.

After all, setting sights a little too high when starting out and potentially failing is just as demoralising. Success breeds success.


puma1552 said:
It's a waste of her potential
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"I know what's best for her. She doesn't."

puma1552 said:
It isn't worth her time
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"I am a better judge of the direction of her life than she is."

puma1552 said:
High chance of extreme dissatisfaction
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"Especially if I keep on at her like this."

puma1552 said:
Dead end/no advancement
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"I wouldn't want to do this job."

puma1552 said:
Brain rot
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"This is a job for stupid people."

puma1552 said:
It puts a financial strain on both of us.
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"I'm worried about my own money."
 
Putting words in my mouth? Real appropriate.

:rolleyes:

Gee, with as asinine of quotes as what you put up, I'm almost sorry I give a **** about her doing well for herself and having hopes for her to do well, instead of just saying "Sitting at a dead end job? Sounds good enough for you, eh?"

:rolleyes:

Try having a little more tact instead of putting outrageous words in my mouth that are so far off from anything I've said. Those quotes are utter, utter rubbish. It seems like the only thing I could say here that wouldn't warrant such things would be "Sure, go ahead, sell yourself short, dear! You're only as good as what you want to do, no such thing as wasted potential!"

You make it seem like it's criminal to care.
 
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puma1552 said:
Try having a little more tact instead of putting outrageous words in my mouth that are so far off from anything I've said.
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Tact? I'm not the one spilling my relationship and financial concerns over a public board. No need to be so thin-skinned, outraged even, and ignore the perfectly sensible advice that I and others have given you, zeroing in on the unpleasant aspects of how you are coming across to others, as evidenced by many replies.

Seems that I've struck a nerve that is clear to me from your thread title and other comments, where you suspected that you were probably being unreasonable, and that by inviting public feedback you knew that people would disagree with you.

If you're coming here merely to seek affirmation for what many people in this thread feel is an unreasonable stance, then I can't help you with that. Your certainty in assuming that what she wants to do is completely unsuitable for her and that it's a dead end, suggests to me that you can't see beyond your own limited view of the future, and even more worryingly, will not be prepared to let the issue go.

It's an extremely tight job market. Like I said: Let her find her feet at first... at her own pace. Not yours.
 
Let her work the job for a while once you move, it'll be income and a level of security whilst she also builds her confidence and also her employability.

Once you're actually settled in the US, with both of you earning, then maybe she'll want a new job. Maybe she'll work on that front desk and realise it isn't what she wants, and then she will look for a new challenge.

So yes, you're trying to force her in to doing what you want her to. Stop.
 
Get real OP. Your thread title tells us you know you're being a dick. You've been here long enough to take the temperature of the community and know what type of responses you'd get here.
 
puma1552 said:
Putting words in my mouth? Real appropriate.

:rolleyes:

Gee, with as asinine of quotes as what you put up, I'm almost sorry I give a **** about her doing well for herself and having hopes for her to do well, instead of just saying "Sitting at a dead end job? Sounds good enough for you, eh?"

:rolleyes:

Try having a little more tact instead of putting outrageous words in my mouth that are so far off from anything I've said. Those quotes are utter, utter rubbish. It seems like the only thing I could say here that wouldn't warrant such things would be "Sure, go ahead, sell yourself short, dear! You're only as good as what you want to do, no such thing as wasted potential!"

You make it seem like it's criminal to care.
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Stand back for a second a re-read this entire thread.

We are not out here to crucify you or call you some sort of Satan or anything. You have not killed anybody or robbed a bank or masterminded a Ponzi scheme, and heck, you have not done anything legally wrong.

I think people are telling you to reboot, sleep on it, and re-evaluate your values, that's all. So you grew up poor. Many people did but it does not give you the right to slide into a downhill path of materialism. It you are going to go to hell on good intentions, don't take her down with you (if you believe in this type of stuff) or put in another way, "Karma is a bitch".

We all make mistakes in life and we all get our priorities wrong. It's only human.

I don't feel we are out to make an example of you. You sound like you have a great girlfriend and she's willing to travel with you half way across the globe. That's big of her. You are already trying to fit her into a $30,000+ plus year a job in a country you know nothing about (since this recession, or depression), and you are worried about her making $20,000 dollars a year? So we are talking about a $10,000 dollar discrepancy. What's more important, a girl who sounds like she has everything going for her (and someone I would recommend to any of my single friends), or if she makes $20K a year?

And if this economy recovers anytime soon, then you can talk about her advancement in starting pay. Listen to what she wants to do as well as how much she wants to make. What a person wants to do ranks higher than how much they want to get paid.

Anyway, do some research, see a therapist for couples or just yourself if you can afford it, and ignore any bad vibes your are getting from this thread, but hang onto the good advice that is in abundance here.

Most of us are probably older than you, and may have made the same mistake you are about to make. We have all lost relationships where we were basically mostly in the wrong. It's practically inevitable and you seem to be like a guy driving 100 mph into a brick wall you don't see. Don't get mad at the rest of us when we tell you that you are in danger (in this case losing your girlfriend).
 
Um... Blimey... There's an old saying - 'life is what happens to you in between the plans'.

Be careful of what you wish for - that job that you pushed her into and you think is perfect for her (but she really didn't want to do) might mean she has to work long career enhancing hours with her boss who also happens to be wealthy, charming and very single man. ;-)

Careers are funny things. Let her do want she wants to do... It'll work out.
 
puma1552 said:
Should I also support her if she wants to be an exotic dancer? After all, it's her time and her money, why should I object?
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why would you object? she'd be making a ton of money, maybe more than you - and you seem to care more about money than her happiness. OOOOH but her being an exotic dancer wouldn't make YOU happy now would it?

the more you keep going on this, the more it's becoming blatantly obvious this is really all about you. you say you want her to live up to her potential, blah blah blah, but i don't buy it. you don't want to be stuck with someone for the rest of your life whom you deem lazy. i don't see anything wrong with that -i dont want to be with anyone who is lazy. but if i was with someone i thought was lazy, i wouldn't try to change them, i'd look for someone who had ambition. just be honest about it instead of trying so hard not to look like a jerk.
break up. in this case, love is not enough.
 
As someone who has been in the exact same situation (Japanese wife, moving to the US, wife with English degree, etc), I'm going to go against the grain of what I have read here and say that you are not being a dick or a control freak. I think where you are probably wrong is to think that she won't find a Japanese community. She will in St. Paul (and you should probably start thinking ahead to trips to Chicago to pick up all the Japanese stuff you can't get there). Frankly, I don't think the people who have responded to this thread quite understand the difficulties of moving to the US as a non-native speaker. I think, OP, that you do understand to an extent and what they are seeing as your control freakishness is just you being worried.

You are definitely right to start thinking about this now, before you move. It would be helpful for you both to have clear plans going forward about how she will be earning money. It might mean, for example, that she start acquiring skills before you leave. Believe me, though, sorting this out now might save you from some future stress.

You are wrong to try to push your girlfriend onto a particular career path, however. I would suggest that you both continue brainstorming. Also, try to locate members of the Japanese community where you will be going. Try for example, to find out if there is a Japanese school (for children) there and contact someone there to give your girlfriend a dose of the reality of the area. Honestly, you probably don't know what sort of jobs are open to her. Nursing is a common one, but if she's not interested, don't push it. There are likely (Japanese) restaurants she could work in, but finding something less physically demanding might be better for her. Although she may not be keen on the idea, I'd imagine that if you are near UMN, she could probably find work as a tutor. Or, what is common around here, she could take a graduate course in Japanese teaching, be a TA for a time and find work at a local school. I'm not sure what the scene it like in MN, but Japanese is a reasonably popular subject for high schools to offer. Basically, she'd work as a high school teacher.

I could go on, but I'd recommend that the other thing for her to do is have a look at the huge number of blogs written by Japanese living in the states. She may even find some bloggers in St. Paul. Basically, she needs to do research. There is an amazing amount of information for Japanese moving to specific areas, she just needs to find it. I think if she gets a better idea of what life is like, what kind of work is available, and who to talk to she and you will be able to get a clearer picture of what is ahead.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info/advice.
 
puma1552 said:
I think it's a little brash to label me as controlling just because I want better for my girlfriend.
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That's not why people here are labeling you as controlling.

We're labeling you as controlling because you don't want her to choose for herself; you're trying to choose for her. That's exactly what we're talking about.

--It's a waste of her potential
--It isn't worth her time
--High chance of extreme dissatisfaction
--Dead end/no advancement
--Brain rot
--It puts a financial strain on both of us
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You forgot

-- I don't approve

As an aside, every single person on this website is materialistic to a degree; there's just a difference between who knows it and who doesn't, or doesn't want to. Nobody who isn't materialistic spends $1k+ on a luxury computer. I know my place and I'm comfortable with it, even if it isn't popular.
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Hey, I wish my wife made more money, too - but she likes her job. Who the hell am I to tell her to quit it and do something that pays her better so I can buy more toys?
 
It's amazing, the more advice I see given on this forum, the more I see people here as whiny liberals who need to be silenced with a silencer. ;) This is from a person who couldn't care less about all politics ever.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting your mate to be just slightly above the poverty level. My first salary close to 6 years ago was $30K. I was ridiculously underpaid. And you know what? It was very difficult to survive on that even living in the boonies (40 min drive from Boston) and buying bare necessities. That was a while ago so it was more back then than it is now. Taking $10K off that would be a salary that simply implies living with parents or your spouse dragging your ass along. There is no other way here. Luckily I left that miserable place after 8 months for a much better salary but OP's girlfriend won't have that option because that's her general salary range. So he doesn't want her to be dependent on him for the rest of their lives. I can sure as hell understand that. I wouldn't want that either.

And isn't US all about gender equality nowadays? And that means that people should be independent of each other.
 
I am not familiar with Japanese culture, but I am very familiar with American born and raised people marrying someone from another country and trying to get them to assimilate into American society.

The best thing, be supportive and let them figure it out. Its seriously the best way for them to learn. If she wants to work in a hotel, let her. Being the owner/manager of a hotel, I will tell you that she will find out rather quickly whether or not its the career for her. But you shouldn't make that decision for her, let her figure it out on her own.

You say she is worthy of a $100k a year job, and if she is, she will NOT settle for a $20k a year job.
 
puma1552 said:
I think it's a little brash to label me as controlling just because I want better for my girlfriend.
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Trying to control her decisions based on what you want is not fair. Give her your best advice and support her decision. Let her get her feet wet in the U.S. business marketplace, get used to life and cultural differences in the U.S. Maybe she will start out modestly and then want more.
 
I think you're being prudent... sure in a climate of supposed equality and other fairy tales you're going to encounter a lot of resistance to having to educate an adult (much less a male educating a female... gasp!), but at the end of the day people don't come to America to get below minimum wage jobs, unless they don't understand America (which is quite likely).

If you think that she is a six-figure employee, then she has to realize that for herself and that might mean doing bikini waxes or flipping burgers until potential comes along and awakens her.
 
Thank god, a couple voices of reason!

The truth is that you could be hit by a bus any day, and every adult needs to be capable of being self sufficient. Poverty wages are not something to strive for. I 100% believe that an intelligent and educated person can find a career that pays the bills and is enjoyable. I think the answer is for her to simply do career planning, for which there are many resources on the web and in government places. yojitani has a really great idea of reaching out to the Japanese community in your city, to find out what opportunities exist. And even just for her to make friends and network.

If she doesn't come up with a plan, or career path, before coming here, I'd encourage her to not sign up for any expensive schooling with no real pay-off, but instead to just live in America for a bit, and feel out the opportunities on the ground, in person, while learning English.

- Mark

Fiveos22 said:
I think you're being prudent... sure in a climate of supposed equality and other fairy tales you're going to encounter a lot of resistance to having to educate an adult (much less a male educating a female... gasp!), but at the end of the day people don't come to America to get below minimum wage jobs, unless they don't understand America (which is quite likely).
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yojitani said:
As someone who has been in the exact same situation (Japanese wife, moving to the US, wife with English degree, etc), I'm going to go against the grain of what I have read here and say that you are not being a dick or a control freak. I think where you are probably wrong is to think that she won't find a Japanese community.

<SNIP>

I could go on, but I'd recommend that the other thing for her to do is have a look at the huge number of blogs written by Japanese living in the states. She may even find some bloggers in St. Paul. Basically, she needs to do research. There is an amazing amount of information for Japanese moving to specific areas, she just needs to find it. I think if she gets a better idea of what life is like, what kind of work is available, and who to talk to she and you will be able to get a clearer picture of what is ahead.
Click to expand...
 
MarkCollette said:
Thank god, a couple voices of reason!
Click to expand...


There's more reason in this thread than just the most recent posts. Think the general hostility was due to how the topic was framed as a complaint about their partner's goals and how it didn't appear to fit into a plan that appeared to suit the needs of only one person as he defined it. Note the thread title is about him, not her.

If the original question had been posed as: Moving back to the US, would appreciate career advice for my Japanese partner who has such and such skills and qualities... then it would have evolved differently.
 
Synchromesh said:
It's amazing, the more advice I see given on this forum, the more I see people here as whiny liberals who need to be silenced with a silencer. ;) This is from a person who couldn't care less about all politics ever.
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Yeah, we are the liberal scum (according to another enlightened macrumors member now in time out in the political forums) and for some reason, it's us liberal scum who haven't come to the manly realization that maybe we don't beat up our women enough.:rolleyes:
 
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