Amazon Introduces 8.9-Inch and 7-Inch Kindle Fire HD at $299 and $199, Updated Kindle Fire Drops to $159

[TraceyS/FL]

I"M only up to page 15 (2 to go), but I wonder WHY you would want to release this before Apple did theirs?

From we can tell Apple has a month now to modify their game plan and sort out a way to keep people with iOS - especially since the HD models aren't shipping until late November. I realize their supply figures probably forced them to do it now, but I don't think I would have wanted to go first.... so "early" in the holiday season.

It's going to be curious to see unfold.

Personaly, I have ZERO desire to own an Android device.

Except.... those parental controls ROCK for my Special Needs daughter. For now she keeps her eInk kindle for reading - despite my wanting her to use the awesome bookshare app for her books (so I don't have to jump thru hoops to get them on the kindle).

And, yes I sent feedback to apple on it yesterday.

 

[damir00]

Personaly, I have ZERO desire to own an Android device.

Prejudice is an ugly thing.

Android is creeping ever more effectively into our Walled Garden of Appleness. The Nexus 7 with the console emulators and "every ROM ever produced" has completely relegated iPads to second class citizens with the younger ones. The S3 has replaced iPhones, for a variety of reasons.

Apple still rules laptops and desktops, though!

 

[rhuber]

Of course you can. They are DRM-free AAC files, anything that can play AAC files can use them. And if you are one of the five people on Earth who still uses a device that cannot play AACs, you can batch-convert them to MP3s inside iTunes (or with lots of other tools).

There are plenty of things to criticise with Apple but as long as people just (incorrectly) assume their arguments I cannot help myself but thinking that criticising Apple is more used as a way of letting of steam at a convenient target than expressing a valid opinion.

Try to pay pay attention, buddy. Again... I was talking about streaming, and I am not talking about music specifically, but all media (movies, books, music, etc). My statement was accurate, whether you know it or not.

Secondly, this was not a criticism of apple. As I've said, apple offers very elegant solutions... IF you want to fully adopt the apple ecosystem. As a reminder, that's what the post was about.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, I do in fact know what I'm talking about, and your (very rudely and arrogantly) disagreeing with me does not invalidate my statements.

 

[Technarchy]

Amazon...no bueno

 

[TraceyS/FL]

Prejudice is an ugly thing.

Android is creeping ever more effectively into our Walled Garden of Appleness. The Nexus 7 with the console emulators and "every ROM ever produced" has completely relegated iPads to second class citizens with the younger ones. The S3 has replaced iPhones, for a variety of reasons.

Apple still rules laptops and desktops, though!

Great for you.

I wouldn't call it prejudice - I started to type that I have no desire to own a Google product. I just don't agree with a lot they do, and personal choice is a great thing isn't it?

I am heavily invested in iOS apps and devices, i am currently a single mom and full time student whose kids qualify for free lunch. I'm 99% sure you would say I shouldn't be buying anything new anyway, and that it makes more fiscal sense to stay with what I own should I "need" to replace a device.

I'm not into jailbreaking, flashing ROMs, hacking, pirating, and all that. I worked too long in IT in my former life, I don't want to do it again.

But competiion is good, choice is good, so everyone comes out a winner right?

The newest Fires are more compelling to me than the first one. And if you think i'm truly not a potential buyer - despite my aversion to android - i can say that I am reasonably active in a Fire forum and try to stay atop new & quirks. Which means I have never truly written it off...

I would greatly prefer my 7-8" tablet purchase to be an Apple device. But right now, the Fire and it's free time settings make it the best device for the job. My mind is open and processing all the options... the next move is Apples (if the basic $159 kindle wasn't available until November also I would have a pre-order in).

That said, I do NOT like the thought of an ad-supported tablet for my child (that has an ad supported eInk device already).

ANYWAY. I'm not prejudiced - I just don't want to go there.

 

[scottw324]

Blow through 250 MB in a day or two... doing what? There are wifi networks just about everywhere, and you can store most content you need locally, so once again: doing what? Streaming porn on the way home from work?

Based on your answer then there is no need to have more than 250MB data plan on any mobile device since there is wifi everywhere.

Some of us do of live in cities with Starbucks on every corner.

 

[linkgx1]

Great for you.

I wouldn't call it prejudice - I started to type that I have no desire to own a Google product. I just don't agree with a lot they do, and personal choice is a great thing isn't it?

I am heavily invested in iOS apps and devices, i am currently a single mom and full time student whose kids qualify for free lunch. I'm 99% sure you would say I shouldn't be buying anything new anyway, and that it makes more fiscal sense to stay with what I own should I "need" to replace a device.

I'm not into jailbreaking, flashing ROMs, hacking, pirating, and all that. I worked too long in IT in my former life, I don't want to do it again.

But competiion is good, choice is good, so everyone comes out a winner right?

The newest Fires are more compelling to me than the first one. And if you think i'm truly not a potential buyer - despite my aversion to android - i can say that I am reasonably active in a Fire forum and try to stay atop new & quirks. Which means I have never truly written it off...

I would greatly prefer my 7-8" tablet purchase to be an Apple device. But right now, the Fire and it's free time settings make it the best device for the job. My mind is open and processing all the options... the next move is Apples (if the basic $159 kindle wasn't available until November also I would have a pre-order in).

That said, I do NOT like the thought of an ad-supported tablet for my child (that has an ad supported eInk device already).

ANYWAY. I'm not prejudiced - I just don't want to go there.

Not being prejudiced is an ugly thing.

 

[manu chao]

Try to pay pay attention, buddy. Again... I was talking about streaming, and I am not talking about music specifically, but all media (movies, books, music, etc). My statement was accurate, whether you know it or not.

Secondly, this was not a criticism of apple. As I've said, apple offers very elegant solutions... IF you want to fully adopt the apple ecosystem. As a reminder, that's what the post was about.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, I do in fact know what I'm talking about, and your (very rudely and arrogantly) disagreeing with me does not invalidate my statements.

Let's recount who is paying attention:
YOU:[among other things] I never purchase music from iTunes. I do that from amazon, because I know I can (...) listen, on any device (including just about tv).
ME: And you couldn't listen to music bought from iTunes on any device?
YOU: um, other than apple devices or computers with itunes installed, no... i can't. Can you?
ME: Of course you can. They are DRM-free AAC files, anything that can play AAC files can use them.

Your reply about streaming was not a reply to me and I did not reply to your post about streaming. That was not part of our argument.

I challenged your statement that music purchased on iTunes can only be listened to on apple devices or computers with itunes whereas music purchased from Amazon you can listen [to] on any device.

You cannot cop out of this by claiming that a statement like Peter, Paul and Mary are idiots was not specifically about Paul. If you include Paul in that list, you have own up to what you've said.

I still feel that your first post I replied to was motivated by a desire to criticise; adding the (small) lie by saying that music purchased from iTunes can only be played on Apple devices (or iTunes) just made that criticism more forceful and thus including it made you feel better. Because I cannot think of another reason why somebody would purposefully lie if it didn't bring him some benefit (in this case some personal satisfaction).

 

[divinox]

Based on your answer then there is no need to have more than 250MB data plan on any mobile device since there is wifi everywhere.

Some of us do of live in cities with Starbucks on every corner.

Pure fabrication. I questioned that _most_ _blast through_ 250MB in _1-2_ days. Nothing more, nothing less. I would, however, expect that for _most_ this tablet would be a _secondary device_ to their _smart phone_ on which they _more likely than not_ already have a data plan. Particularly so if they happen to be active users, in need of big data plans (no one stops you from buying more data on your fire anyway, so the point is sort of moot regardless).

 

[damir00]

I challenged your statement that music purchased on iTunes can only be listened to on apple devices or computers with itunes whereas music purchased from Amazon you can listen [to] on any device.

That's what I heard, too. The post he made his claim to was specifically talking about music.

No idea where his resultant rant came from...

----------

But competiion is good, choice is good, so everyone comes out a winner right?

For sure!

It appears my post was taken (or came across) more aggressively than it was intended. Apologies for that - I'm a firm believer people should get what they think will work best for them.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

For sure!

It appears my post was taken (or came across) more aggressively than it was intended. Apologies for that - I'm a firm believer people should get what they think will work best for them.

I had just come from my Pharmacology class message board where a classmate had said that he would refuse to dispense the morning after pill to a rape victim because it was against his morals.

I was probably a bit over sensitive at the time

(For the record, I wouldn't have a problem dispensing it - who am I to judge the person in front of me's choices? I've not walked in their shoes. Just like I still talk to my Android toting friends )

 

[emaja]

Well, looks like Amazon ha backtracked and caved.

For a mere
$15, they will take them off.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

Well, looks like Amazon ha backtracked and caved.

For a mere
$15, they will take them off.

Interesting price point. Wayyyy cheaper than it should be (based on past devices), but to make it higher would make them look really bad about the whole thing.

They handled this very very poorly starting with the deception at the announcement.

I could relate it to statements the guy just made in my pharmacology class again, but I'm too dumbfounded over the whole thing. Kinda like when you read a post on here and you think, "oh lord, i'm embarrassed to be an American"... LOL!

 

[rhuber]

Let's recount who is paying attention:
YOU:[among other things] I never purchase music from iTunes. I do that from amazon, because I know I can (...) listen, on any device (including just about tv).
ME: And you couldn't listen to music bought from iTunes on any device?
YOU: um, other than apple devices or computers with itunes installed, no... i can't. Can you?
ME: Of course you can. They are DRM-free AAC files, anything that can play AAC files can use them.

Your reply about streaming was not a reply to me and I did not reply to your post about streaming. That was not part of our argument.

I challenged your statement that music purchased on iTunes can only be listened to on apple devices or computers with itunes whereas music purchased from Amazon you can listen [to] on any device.

You cannot cop out of this by claiming that a statement like Peter, Paul and Mary are idiots was not specifically about Paul. If you include Paul in that list, you have own up to what you've said.

I still feel that your first post I replied to was motivated by a desire to criticise; adding the (small) lie by saying that music purchased from iTunes can only be played on Apple devices (or iTunes) just made that criticism more forceful and thus including it made you feel better. Because I cannot think of another reason why somebody would purposefully lie if it didn't bring him some benefit (in this case some personal satisfaction).

K. Whatever you think, dude. Didn't know we were having an argument, but apparently you are under the impression we were. We were discussing the pros and cons of amazon's media services... even as I am an avid apple user. Guess you got something else out of it, and think I'm "copping out" because I have an opinion. I wasn't criticizing a damned thing and I'm not playing that game with you.

I like amazon's media solutions. So the **** what?

 

[Medic311]

Blow through 250 MB in a day or two... doing what? There are wifi networks just about everywhere, and you can store most content you need locally, so once again: doing what? Streaming porn on the way home from work?

you forget the fact that many streaming audio and video have variable quality, based on the detected data speed. this is so it can buffer properly and you can enjoy a continuous stream. on many sites, such as CNN, you cannot manually downgrade your video quality - it's automatic.

watching random 2 mins recap video clips will exceed 250MB in less than an hour at high quality streams

remember when the iPad 3 just came out and people were complaining they reached their 2GB data limit within 4 days???

a 250MB/mo 4G data plan is useless for anyone who uses their tablet for more than emails, articles, and non-streaming web browsing

 

[fertilized-egg]

a 250MB/mo 4G data plan is useless for anyone who uses their tablet for more than emails, articles, and non-streaming web browsing

That data plan 250MB/month for $50/year sounds like a heaven for smartphone users who just need to check email and send IM. I wonder if someone will get the plan and try to use the SIM card(if it's still SIM based) with another device.

 

[manu chao]

I like amazon's media solutions. So the **** what?

Well, but you are apparently not self-confident enough about having made that decision that you need to paint the alternative in a negative light by lying so your decision feels more justified. And even if directly confronted, you will not admit to lying. What does that say about you?

 

[kdarling]

Well, looks like Amazon ha backtracked and caved.

For a mere
$15, they will take them off.

That's reasonable. They priced the devices downward, assuming that they'd make up the difference in ads, and $15 is about the ad revenue that mobile devices bring in every two years. That has to paid back somehow.

Personally, I agree with the author of the article. The ads aren't that intrusive. If it was my only tablet, I might feel differently, though.

 

[John.B]

That's reasonable. They priced the devices downward, assuming that they'd make up the difference in ads, and $15 is about the ad revenue that mobile devices bring in every two years. That has to paid back somehow.

Personally, I agree with the author of the article. The ads aren't that intrusive. If it was my only tablet, I might feel differently, though.

I still think it cheapens the image of the Kindle Fire hardware, especially in terms of gift giving. I know they probably didn't want to add to their ever-expanding number of SKUs, but I think people should be able buy the "without ads" version of the Kindle Fire 4G outright for $514, instead of buying the "w/ ads" version for $499, only to have to log into Amazon on a web browser, then disable ads for an additional $15.

And, really, how stupid was it to allow this whole "with ads" discussion to steal the thunder of their big product launch?

 

[charlituna]

Yes, then losing customers. The new Kindle Fire/HD is an excellent product at a low price.

So you have one of the new Kindle Fire HD. You have used it personally and thus can rate it.

Or are you assuming cause the announcement looks good, the product is also.

 

[linkgx1]

So you have one of the new Kindle Fire HD. You have used it personally and thus can rate it.

Or are you assuming cause the announcement looks good, the product is also.

Wont people be doing the same thing next week?

 

[charlituna]

This is what tablets are worth anyways. Nothing but simple web-browsing devices. You want more, you gotta wait for upcoming Intel tablets.

Perhaps for you, but web browsing is a tiny fraction of my time on my iPad. Too busy doing work on it. And by that I mean notating shot details, watching the camera monitors, reviewing choreography for stunts and FX shots etc

 

[John.B]

Excerpts from the Jeff Bezos interview with AllThingsD:

How long-term are you thinking for the Kindle?
Bezos: This one is pretty straightforward. We don’t want to lose a lot of money on the device.
Are you losing any money?
Bezos: We don’t disclose the exact bill and materials, so I can’t answer that. But we don’t want to lose a lot of money on the device because then we’d really hate it if you put it in the desk drawer. On the other hand, if you make a lot of money on the device, I believe you haven’t earned your money on it yet, and then you’ve incentivized them (the customers) to stay on the upgrade treadmill that I mentioned today.

Is the price of the Kindle Fire HD with LTE ($499) subsidizing the data plan?
Bezos: I’m not going to break out the economics of any particular piece with you, but you’re right, it’s an astonishing price point.
How does special offers, or the advertising, play a role in the price point?
[Bezos:]We had it on our E-Ink devices, but haven’t had it on the Kindle Fire. For those, it’s very good, no one really buys the non-special-offers version. Everyone buys the special-offers version. There aren’t two versions of this (pointing to the new 7-inch Kindle Fire HD). That was a decision we made because no one is willing to buy the non-special-offers version.

http://allthingsd.com/20120906/maki...amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-explains-it-all-mostly/

So they won't say how much they're losing on each unit, but clearly they are losing something.

He also dances around the question of subsidizing the data plan for the Kindle Fire 4G, though we'll know that soon enough when the first 250MB/month plan renewals show up in 13th month or the 2nd year. If that isn't communicated clearly, a lot of people are going to be upset when they figure out their renewal isn't $50/year as well.

Most interesting to me is that Bezos clearly didn't see the impending "with ads" ****storm that ensued (this interview obviously took place before Amazon capitulated over the $15 fee to turn off ads).

 

[charlituna]

Amazon is selling, for $49, 3GB of data, divided up over 12 months, on a device that is being sold to compete with Apple's groundbreaking device, on a (claimed) 4g network, with many more choices in content consumption.

Here's what I want to know.

What happens that month that I accidentally use 251MB on my Fire.

----------

400 iPad at even $400 = $160,000
What "value" does an iPad bring to a school that a Kindle HD could not?

How about you back up your contention that the Fire HD has more 'value'. And remember hardware costs are not the only factor

----------

*2 examples/schools doesn't make this widespread adoption. More of a trial from looking at those articles

use your googles. There are dozens more examples.

----------

Wont people be doing the same thing next week?

Some might. Hell they might be doing it this week. And I will say the same thing. You can't say something you haven't used is awesome

 

[tigress666]

I still think it cheapens the image of the Kindle Fire hardware, especially in terms of gift giving. I know they probably didn't want to add to their ever-expanding number of SKUs, but I think people should be able buy the "without ads" version of the Kindle Fire 4G outright for $514, instead of buying the "w/ ads" version for $499, only to have to log into Amazon on a web browser, then disable ads for an additional $15.

And, really, how stupid was it to allow this whole "with ads" discussion to steal the thunder of their big product launch?

I think whether that would be the smarter move, it's probably too late at least for the first batch to implement it that way. They already have the skus planned out and everything so this was probably the quickest way to backtrack on the decision.

I do think it was a stupid move in the first place to think people wouldn't want at least the choice to remove ads on an expensive product. I think what they missed was that people looking at the price point of the cheaper kindle probably have tighter pocketbooks and more willing to make a deal or put up with stuff to make it cheaper. Not to mention 15-20 dollars is more a percentage off a 100 or so dollar device vs. a 500 dollar device so it looks to be a much better bargain when the device is priced that low. At 500 it doesn't seem like much more to add 15 dollars to remove ads (or at 515 not much savings to remove 15 dollars to put up with ads). If they had only priced the regular kindle 5 dollars cheaper I bet they would find a lot more people who would have bought the no ads version as at that price point 5 bux doesn't seem like much extra (or taken off).