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Another damned if they do damned if they don't? Before there were cries about the mandatory ads and no way to opt out. Now for $15 you can opt out and it's "Amazon" caving and it's portrayed as a bad thing.

Ridiculous.

More companies should be so responsive and pro-active in listening to their customers.
 
Another damned if they do damned if they don't? Before there were cries about the mandatory ads and no way to opt out. Now for $15 you can opt out and it's "Amazon" caving and it's portrayed as a bad thing.

Ridiculous.

More companies should be so responsive and pro-active in listening to their customers.

Again, this is more about the "yes, we will", "no, we won't", "yes, we will" nature of Amazon's public decision making process. Continually changing their minds is maybe too responsive, it shows a lack of commitment and leadership to their defined business plan.

In the AllThingsD interview, Bezos taks far too much credit for being in touch with his future tablet customer base, based solely on Amazon's experience with the very-low-end Kindles. In case you missed it the first time around:

[Bezos:]We had it on our E-Ink devices, but haven’t had it on the Kindle Fire. For those, it’s very good, no one really buys the non-special-offers version. Everyone buys the special-offers version. There aren’t two versions of this (pointing to the new 7-inch Kindle Fire HD). That was a decision we made because no one is willing to buy the non-special-offers version.

News flash, forced ads are a tacky thing to tack on (no pun intended) to a $500 tablet. How in the **** does he spout off about this to the tech arm of the WSJ and not know this?
 
Again, this is more about the "yes, we will", "no, we won't", "yes, we will" nature of Amazon's public decision making process. Continually changing their minds is maybe too responsive, it shows a lack of commitment and leadership to their defined business plan.

In the AllThingsD interview, Bezos taks far too much credit for being in touch with his future tablet customer base, based solely on Amazon's experience with the very-low-end Kindles. In case you missed it the first time around:



News flash, forced ads are a tacky thing to tack on (no pun intended) to a $500 tablet. How in the **** does he spout off about this to the tech arm of the WSJ and not know this?

so you agree - amazon is damned either way for responding. Just what I said :)
 
so you agree - amazon is damned either way for responding. Just what I said :)

Well it's pretty eff'ed up to not bring up the subject at all in their dog-and-pony show (it's not even in any of their press photos), have Bezos give an unequivocal "no one is willing to buy the non-special-offers version" message in an interview, only to find themselves in a position to have to walk that back? Yeah, at that point they were screwed. And then to painfully, publicly continue to change their tune? By then they had completely lost control of their message. Yeah, sure, "damned either way" is about right. You can't put that genie back in the bottle.

IMO, Bezos should fire his PR team, especially if he was the PR team for this rollout.
 
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so you agree - amazon is damned either way for responding. Just what I said :)

I'm with you on this one, Sam. I think Jeff's steps to get it right through feedback is part of what makes him a great leader. I've always wondered who the lemmings were who simply swallowed the "you'll take what we want you to have and you'll love it" approach that Apple leans towards and I think you've found their leader. :rolleyes:
 
Ads were fine until the $500 mark. Might as well get a IPad at that price with no ads.
 
400 iPad at even $400 = $160,000
What "value" does an iPad bring to a school that a Kindle HD could not?
Unless you have an article or facts to back up your statement, I'm calling...
Image

Able to administer multiple tablet devices at once ( Apple Configurator ), provide tools for better multimedia ebooks ( iBooks Author ) Lower the price of school books making them much more affordable to schools then hardback books.

Amazon is not focusing on education like Apple is doing. Amazon is just trying to at least break into the tablet market alone.
 
Ads were fine until the $500 mark. Might as well get a IPad at that price with no ads.

Yep.... However, I never would wanna see Ads on any lock-screen...

Its one thing seeing them, its another paying $15 to get rid-of-them, something why would i need to pay "extra" for something i never knew about. It would be like "Thanks fo bying the Fire...... Oh, and by the way we'll need some more money from you to be a "special customer"

Total BS...

Its YOUR kindle... not someone elses.

I don't mind if ads are on websites, that the user has control via blocking software etc... but not on a lock screen when THEY have control.:apple:
 
Yep.... However, I never would wanna see Ads on any lock-screen...

Its one thing seeing them, its another paying $15 to get rid-of-them, something why would i need to pay "extra" for something i never knew about. It would be like "Thanks fo bying the Fire...... Oh, and by the way we'll need some more money from you to be a "special customer"

Total BS...

Its YOUR kindle... not someone elses.

I don't mind if ads are on websites, that the user has control via blocking software etc... but not on a lock screen when THEY have control.:apple:
You've obviously never owned a Kindle before.
There's a reason why they are inexpensive... the reduced cost is subsidized by the ads.
Don't want the ads, pay the higher price.
Just like buying a phone on contract or off contract.
Want it cheaper... agree to a 2 year contract.
The $500 Kindle HD is worth more than $500.
That $50 a year LTE plan they offer costs a hell of a lot more than $50.
 
I still think it cheapens the image of the Kindle Fire hardware, especially in terms of gift giving. I know they probably didn't want to add to their ever-expanding number of SKUs, but I think people should be able buy the "without ads" version of the Kindle Fire 4G outright for $514, instead of buying the "w/ ads" version for $499, only to have to log into Amazon on a web browser, then disable ads for an additional $15.

And, really, how stupid was it to allow this whole "with ads" discussion to steal the thunder of their big product launch?

Advertising the device at $514 is a lot different than $499.
 
That's reasonable. They priced the devices downward, assuming that they'd make up the difference in ads, and $15 is about the ad revenue that mobile devices bring in every two years. That has to paid back somehow.

Personally, I agree with the author of the article. The ads aren't that intrusive. If it was my only tablet, I might feel differently, though.

I'd pay $15 to take them off in a heartbeat.
 
Nope. Not buying it.

They advertise the Paperwhite at $119, but also sell the SKU for the ad-less version for $139 on the same page: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007OZNZG0/

Any other excuses?

You're missing the point. They're pitching the Fire HD as a better value than the iPad so there's a consicous decision to keeping it at $499. It's obvious that $514 is just nominally higher, but $499 is the critical threshhold.
 
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You're missing the point. They're pitching the Fire HD as a better value than the iPad so there's a consicous decision to keeping it at $499. It's obvious that $514 is just nominally higher, but $499 is the critical threshhold.

Sorry, I'm not missing anything.

Nothing in the way they advertise the pricepoint of the $119 Paperwhite says they have to emphasize they also sell a $139 no-ads version.

jeffletter-2012-ereader-1._V389711294_.jpg


Nothing in the way they advertise the pricepoint of the $499 Kindle Fire says they have to emphasize the 64GB Kindle Fire costs $599.

jeffletter-2012-fire-1._V389711289_.jpg


Try again.
 
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you forget the fact that many streaming audio and video have variable quality, based on the detected data speed. this is so it can buffer properly and you can enjoy a continuous stream. on many sites, such as CNN, you cannot manually downgrade your video quality - it's automatic.

watching random 2 mins recap video clips will exceed 250MB in less than an hour at high quality streams

remember when the iPad 3 just came out and people were complaining they reached their 2GB data limit within 4 days???

a 250MB/mo 4G data plan is useless for anyone who uses their tablet for more than emails, articles, and non-streaming web browsing

I am not forgetting anything. I am, however, questioning average joe's need to stream audio and video on the fly. That it is possible to "blast through 250MB (or whatever) in 1-2 days is without doubt". I do not, however, think its something that _most_ people do. Unless they are plain ignorant, that is.

And, as elsewhere stated, if the cheap data is not enough to get you through your day no one stops you from buying more. Right?
 
I am not forgetting anything. I am, however, questioning average joe's need to stream audio and video on the fly. That it is possible to "blast through 250MB (or whatever) in 1-2 days is without doubt". I do not, however, think its something that _most_ people do. Unless they are plain ignorant, that is.

And, as elsewhere stated, if the cheap data is not enough to get you through your day no one stops you from buying more. Right?

as i stated, blowing through 250MB in a single day is very possible. all it takes is browsing CNN's homepage and watch video clips and them jacking up your video quality based on the 4G connection. there needs to be an override within iOS to limit video quality streams, since carriers have decided to nickel and dime customers for data amounts (which isn't even a finite resource at all i might add). it's not like electricity, water, or natural gas... yet carriers have forced us to believe that if we go over 2GB we "cripple" their networks and lower the quality for the average user. that was my deviation rant...now onto your original post:

Blow through 250 MB in a day or two... doing what? There are wifi networks just about everywhere, and you can store most content you need locally, so once again: doing what? Streaming porn on the way home from work?

you asked what...i told you several times what average people do that will easily blow through 250MB in a matter of 1-2 days solely due to the fact of variable video streaming quality.

you fail to realize that most people who use data are not using the data of content they can store locally, but rather content that is only available on the web or through apps. when you leave for work at 7am, how can you locally store the 5 mins ESPN clip ahead of time that gets released at 4:00pm? i get what you're trying to say, but you're not taking into consideration that most people already store their movies and music locally on their iOS devices. their data consumption is from other sources.

B you can store most content you need locally, so once again: doing what? Streaming porn on the way home from work?

i guess what set me off about your post was that you assume that anyone who goes over their 250MB limit streams porn. that's a rather obnoxious thing to say and many would take offense to that
 
My guess is that it will start at $349 for a 16GB model. That's going to be your game changer because it's a genuine iPad, compatible with iOS apps, and the first sub-$400 current model iPad. (I also suspect Apple will quietly discontinue the iPad 2).

$349!!!???

Too Expensive. $399 give me an iPad 2 and eBay can get me a used one for $200. You really think people will pay MORE for less hardware and limitations instead to get the full iPad and enjoy a really great tablet? If you answer "yes becasue people are looking for a smaller iPad to read" I don't buy it. Kindle is perfect for reading, the best choice in town for that specific need and it's just $79

----------

Guaranteed? By who?

by Mr. $100 less
 
$349!!!???

Too Expensive. $399 give me an iPad 2 and eBay can get me a used one for $200. You really think people will pay MORE for less hardware and limitations instead to get the full iPad and enjoy a really great tablet? If you answer "yes becasue people are looking for a smaller iPad to read" I don't buy it. Kindle is perfect for reading, the best choice in town for that specific need and it's just $79

----------



by Mr. $100 less


Ahem... people pay $299 for a 32GB iPod Touch right now. Apple doesn't sell anything at cost. Its business model is not give away the razor, sell the blades at high cost. The Fire and Nexus 7 (the razor) are sold at cost to sell media (the blade). In fact the new Fire models have to be subsided with advertising to get to its price point.

So, yes, I think people that want a smaller iPad, not just a smaller tablet, will pay $349+ for a 7" because they'll have to or Apple won't release one.

Also, unclear what you mean that a 7" iPad would have hardware limitations. We don't even know if the 7" exists for sure, much less the specs.

One more thing.. you say "too expensive," like Apple sells anything for cheap. Confused.
 
as i stated, blowing through 250MB in a single day is very possible. all it takes is browsing CNN's homepage and watch video clips and them jacking up your video quality based on the 4G connection. there needs to be an override within iOS to limit video quality streams, since carriers have decided to nickel and dime customers for data amounts (which isn't even a finite resource at all i might add). it's not like electricity, water, or natural gas... yet carriers have forced us to believe that if we go over 2GB we "cripple" their networks and lower the quality for the average user. that was my deviation rant...now onto your original post:

LEARN
TO
READ

In the quoted post i explicitly stated that it is possible to blow through 250MB in a single day. I have questioned whether MOST people do. Is it that fun knocking down open doors?

you asked what...i told you several times what average people do that will easily blow through 250MB in a matter of 1-2 days solely due to the fact of variable video streaming quality.

MOST, not average. Further, the figure offered for the average use would not amount to 250MB in 1-2 days. No matter how you spin things, the numbers are not on your side.

And since you seem to have a hard time reading, ill repeat myself: Yes it is possible to use even gigabytes of data in a single day. MOST people, however, do not. And more importantly, most people do not have that need! (When given the option to use more without extra cost, people generally do. Thus, actual use is a poor substitute for demand*)

* this works both ways, of course, as it is essentially a function including price. If wireless were free and lightning fast, people would not bother connecting to wifi-networks, for example.

you fail to realize that most people who use data are not using the data of content they can store locally, but rather content that is only available on the web or through apps. when you leave for work at 7am, how can you locally store the 5 mins ESPN clip ahead of time that gets released at 4:00pm? i get what you're trying to say, but you're not taking into consideration that most people already store their movies and music locally on their iOS devices. their data consumption is from other sources.

I would watch it at work, using company wifi. Or on the bus, using free public wifi. Or when i got home, using my home wifi. To me, watching a 5 minute ESPN clip is not important enough to spend big money on it. And, you know what, i think MOST people are in my corner on that.

Are there people who do want it straight away? Yes! Can they pay more to do so? Yes. What is the fundamental issue here? If you get an extra refill free of charge, and some people prefer drinking 3 gallons instead so what? Let them buy their 3 gallons. The free refill is still free and thus still a good deal.

i guess what set me off about your post was that you assume that anyone who goes over their 250MB limit streams porn. that's a rather obnoxious thing to say and many would take offense to that

Take offense to porn? Porn is like the single most fantastic thing to ever happen to the world of technology. Even if you dont watch it, its the engine behind a vast amount of progress that has been made in the online space.

Yay porn!
 
Kindle fire

Has anyone know have tried getting rid of the ads done the following?

However, my suspicion is that since you pay via from the device to get rid if ads, you would need network access, and different ads would probably/even if there the same, it would be on the lock screen, which means a constant access to network..


Simple solution here,,, turn off network access BEFORE u lock….

This may work, as no ads would be hard coded in the device, it would have to come over the air….. but since you turned no network connection, ads would not be displayed.


Bot of an annoyance factor. yes, but i bet it would work.
 
LEARN
TO
READ

In the quoted post i explicitly stated that it is possible to blow through 250MB in a single day. I have questioned whether MOST people do. Is it that fun knocking down open doors?



MOST, not average. Further, the figure offered for the average use would not amount to 250MB in 1-2 days. No matter how you spin things, the numbers are not on your side.

And since you seem to have a hard time reading, ill repeat myself: Yes it is possible to use even gigabytes of data in a single day. MOST people, however, do not. And more importantly, most people do not have that need! (When given the option to use more without extra cost, people generally do. Thus, actual use is a poor substitute for demand*)

* this works both ways, of course, as it is essentially a function including price. If wireless were free and lightning fast, people would not bother connecting to wifi-networks, for example.



I would watch it at work, using company wifi. Or on the bus, using free public wifi. Or when i got home, using my home wifi. To me, watching a 5 minute ESPN clip is not important enough to spend big money on it. And, you know what, i think MOST people are in my corner on that.

Are there people who do want it straight away? Yes! Can they pay more to do so? Yes. What is the fundamental issue here? If you get an extra refill free of charge, and some people prefer drinking 3 gallons instead so what? Let them buy their 3 gallons. The free refill is still free and thus still a good deal.



Take offense to porn? Porn is like the single most fantastic thing to ever happen to the world of technology. Even if you dont watch it, its the engine behind a vast amount of progress that has been made in the online space.

Yay porn!


oh i can read perfectly fine, in your original post you questioned what people would even blow through 250MB doing. i gave you several examples, now you change your tune, acting like all along you never questioned the inadequacy of a 250MB/mo plan.

numbers are against my side? really? well if you go with what the carriers have said (if you believe that, and trust me...this number is extremely conservative) is that the average data plan user in Q2 2012 consumed 1.1GB per month which increased from 450MB in Q2 2011. with regards to what "most" users use...you have failed to understand what the nature of averages means. average, or mean, means that 50% of people would fall above 1.1GB and 50% below. the above statistic accounts for ALL users who have data plans, whether or not they have a smartphone or a non-smartphone. if you look at just smartphone users, or in other words the only group of people who will be using the 4G network now, that average will be substantially higher thus further making 250MB/mo extremely insufficient.

most public transportation systems do not offer free wifi in the USA. that's great that your's does, however the one in Philadelphia (SEPTA) does not, nor does the one in New Jersey (NJ Transit). since you love using the word "most" - MOST people with smartphones are not using their company's wifi for data during the day, MOST people are not using public transportation wifi during morning and afternoon commutes, and thus MOST people are using the cellular network for their data plans.

your argument has absolutely no foundation to stand on. no direction, nothing. you can't sit there and shot gun an argument in this thread, bouncing around from misc point to misc point. stick with your point and defend it, or don't even bother. no one has questioned the ability to pay more for more data, no one. not me, not anyone else. the point was raised earlier in the thread, before i even joined, that while 250MB/mo for $49/yr seems like a good deal it is more of a gimmick to get people onto a data plan in hopes they exceed the monthly allotment and upgrade to a more expensive plan. it's brilliant marketing - i call it subsidized data, at least at the bottom tier.

AGAIN...importance has nothing to do with reality. the reality is, watching a 5 mins ESPN clip on a 3G network results in 5MB of data consumption. without the ability to toggle video streaming quality manually in nearly every case (videos watched on the iPad open up through Quicktime and ESPN and CNN apps do not allow video stream quality toggling within the app), the ability to effectively control data consumption is lost unless you completely cease the activity all together. that same 5 mins video stream on ESPN results in 50MB since it defaults to a HD standard of video quality. this is why 250MB/mo is not sufficient. that argument is NOT related to your's about "it's a free world, go buy a more expensive data plan". the argument was never that, you're point is not constructive.


i suggest you go back to streaming porn on your iPad in your parents basement on their wifi network, and stay off these forums. you've made a fool of yourself
 
Ahem... people pay $299 for a 32GB iPod Touch right now. Apple doesn't sell anything at cost. Its business model is not give away the razor, sell the blades at high cost. The Fire and Nexus 7 (the razor) are sold at cost to sell media (the blade). In fact the new Fire models have to be subsided with advertising to get to its price point.

So, yes, I think people that want a smaller iPad, not just a smaller tablet, will pay $349+ for a 7" because they'll have to or Apple won't release one.

Also, unclear what you mean that a 7" iPad would have hardware limitations. We don't even know if the 7" exists for sure, much less the specs.

One more thing.. you say "too expensive," like Apple sells anything for cheap. Confused.

IPod shuffle, Mac Mini, Apple Tv... Do you want me to continue?
 
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