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Amazon Listing for Dual 2.7 Ghz PowerMac
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AidenShaw said:
O.K., I configured a dual 3.4 Xeon at Dell and got $3,036. I tried to give it comparable specs, such as 512 MB RAM. I chose the Dell 670 Workstation, since it has the tower case.
Of course the Dell is running Windows (64 bit).
But tomorrow for the same price we will have 2.7 Ghz- which will do something. It's fair to mention the 2.7 since I am mentioning the Windows 64 bit, which was just released.
Uh oh...
Amazon let the cat out of the bag a day early. Something tells me that by the end of today, the messy remains of the Amazon.com staff will be found in their homes, splattered all over the house. Steve Jobs will later be taken from his own by a riot squad, covered in blood and entrails and screaming about the filthy Amazon people stealing his thunder.
Amazon let the cat out of the bag a day early. Something tells me that by the end of today, the messy remains of the Amazon.com staff will be found in their homes, splattered all over the house. Steve Jobs will later be taken from his own by a riot squad, covered in blood and entrails and screaming about the filthy Amazon people stealing his thunder.
No doubt. Tempting to go into the old threads and make a list of the users that should be eating crow.aswitcher said:
Thinksecret is more often right than wrong. There's a reason Apple wants to shut them down.
Best part were the people saying that the rumors weren't true and Apple was feeding TS "disinformation."
Comedy. Gold.
Yvan256 said:
rofl - Yeah, it sucks so hard that only one Athlon is needed to run Doom3 twice as fast as two G5s. (And no, it wasn't a horrible port.)
All that legacy crap really slows things down!
Seriously guys, face it:
The update sucked, and it's not Apple's fault. IBM promised them a good processor and failed to deliver. So what?
Why do we even want faster Macs? Because gaming is where it's at. Most people don't see the reason why they should invest into a console or an extra PC just to play games.
Theoretically, Steve Jobs could get on his knees and beg Bill Gates to bring those (easily portable) XBox2 games to the Mac. But BG would decline, because he doesn't want to loose Windows market share.
Everything will stay the same. Macs will always suck for gaming and will always be good for office work.
Liking Macs comes with the disadvantage of having to buy another system for games. That's it and it will never change. Therefore, Apple's market share will never grow.
BRLawyer said:
There aren't any. But this message board is geared towards enthusiasts. That is an important distinction. We like to have all the latest gizmos, run the fastest, and look the nicest. If you try to break down every comment on this board into logic you will utterly fail because of this.
So, with that said, most of us seem to want a dual core Power Mac with PCI-E graphics and DDR2 667 Ram. Why? Because the combination of these three factors would be the boost we need to break out of incremental speed boosts.
But let me take this one step futher and speak directly to the graphics card portion of the issue. It's not that all these technologies are flat out FASTER. It's that they lay better tracks for the future of the platform. We need to piggyback on the latest PC technologies to see a good return on our investments. PCI-E 16x graphics cards aren't really any faster than AGP 8x cards-- we want them because all high performance cards from here on out will be based on PCI-E in the PC world. We already get nailed on the Mac luxury tax for graphics cards so adding additional engineering time to make a backwards compatible card hurts the Mac market. Even in the PC world, an AGP 8x version of a PCI-E 16x card pulls a $100 premium. This is generally 33% more for a card to be backward compatible. Why? I dunno.
So, yes, we may have some irrational requests because we're hobbyists. BUT, there are some sound economical reasons based around our investments. Personally, I could really use every last GHz for 3D rendering and Video rendering... but it sure would be nice to have a bitchin' game machine to boot.
plinden said:
What I mention is relevant b/c performance increases don't always come from clock speed increases. Imagine if the 2.7G5 had an on-die memory controller? The 200Mhz increase wouldn't be a big disappointment anymore would it?
I mention the XP vs. 64 comparison b/c Joe Schmoes would look at the clock speed and see that clock speeds really never increased. (XP 3200+ = 2.2Ghz, but so is an A64 FX-51). AMD didn't have to (increase clock frequencies) b/c the reduced latencies made such a big difference.
If the G5 simply went up to 2.7 (from 2.5), I'd say that's a very big disappointment if there were no core improvements.
last week in Cupertino
Steve: So guys,what about those new 3Ghz PMs?
Hardware Engineer: Oh well Steve,you see,the entire industry has hit the wall and....
Steve(interrupts angrily): Yes,yes,tell me about it,that´s what I had to say last year during WWDC,so don´t give me any of this crap...
Hardware Engineer: Well,at least we have a revision ready with PCI-e and more expansion bays,should keep our faithful happy,don´t you think?
Oppenheimer(CFO) interjects hastily: No,no,no,NOOOOO way,we are sitting on thousands of old cases and motherboards ,what do you expect us to do with those,uh?
Smart Marketing Guy #1: um,I got it,lets put em into Ipods,uh?
Steve(looking slightly menacing): Yes,right,thank you for your contribution?
Hardware Engineer: Oh well,Mr. Oppenheimer,what will people say ,dishing out 3 grand for a Pro machine with non uptodate features?
Oppenheimer: No problem there,let´s just say we are facing the mother of all BS challenges...I think that´s where marketing might come in handily,these guys haven´t been too active lately,have they?
Smart Marketing Guy #2: Oh yes,we only need to remind customers they can proactively empower themselves and...
Cassanova(just pops in briefly): AND DON`T FORGET TO MENTION H.264 !
Steve very nearly suffers a coronary.
Hope this does not come across as trolling;am just simply underwhelmed by this update,primarily by the lack of PCIe.......
Steve: So guys,what about those new 3Ghz PMs?
Hardware Engineer: Oh well Steve,you see,the entire industry has hit the wall and....
Steve(interrupts angrily): Yes,yes,tell me about it,that´s what I had to say last year during WWDC,so don´t give me any of this crap...
Hardware Engineer: Well,at least we have a revision ready with PCI-e and more expansion bays,should keep our faithful happy,don´t you think?
Oppenheimer(CFO) interjects hastily: No,no,no,NOOOOO way,we are sitting on thousands of old cases and motherboards ,what do you expect us to do with those,uh?
Smart Marketing Guy #1: um,I got it,lets put em into Ipods,uh?
Steve(looking slightly menacing): Yes,right,thank you for your contribution?
Hardware Engineer: Oh well,Mr. Oppenheimer,what will people say ,dishing out 3 grand for a Pro machine with non uptodate features?
Oppenheimer: No problem there,let´s just say we are facing the mother of all BS challenges...I think that´s where marketing might come in handily,these guys haven´t been too active lately,have they?
Smart Marketing Guy #2: Oh yes,we only need to remind customers they can proactively empower themselves and...
Cassanova(just pops in briefly): AND DON`T FORGET TO MENTION H.264 !
Steve very nearly suffers a coronary.
Hope this does not come across as trolling;am just simply underwhelmed by this update,primarily by the lack of PCIe.......
deputy_doofy said:
Notice how the G4, with its "pathetic" 167 Mhz bus, still competes more or less with the G5 clock for clock (of course most G5s are higher clocked than most G4s)... So yeah bus speed helps but I still say it's mostly the CPU clock
And yes, it could also be optimization for the G5 processor, but there's still a valid point that having 5 times the bus speed isn't responsible for the type of performance that people think it is.who cares about speed bump, really, 200MHz is good enough, what Apple should really do is provide decent architecture with the speed upgrade! I doubt anyone *in their right mind* would buy anything with AGP now... On the otherhand, if 2.7GHz had PCIe I'd buy one tomorrow! who cares about 250GHz hd, Maxtor have nice 250/300 GB disks with *16MB* cache! Dual layer, again, who cares, they are all so cheap to buy! And Apple are really taking the piss with memory prices!
my 2c
my 2c
BRLawyer: "I would like to know WHICH PC system is FASTER and MORE powerful than a Dual G5 2.7...no o'clocked crap, please...just mass-produced products...
Could you show me that? Thanks."
Frobozz: "There aren't any."
http://www.barefeats.com/mac2pc.html
Could you show me that? Thanks."
Frobozz: "There aren't any."
http://www.barefeats.com/mac2pc.html
Attachments
SplishSplash said:
WOW. Where to start.... the reason why the PC version of Doom 3 is faster is clearly laid out by Glenda Adams and has very VERY little to do with the CPU. In fact, game developers on the Mac are getting a lot done for them on their behalf at Apple recently. OS X 10.4, new GPU drivers, and new OpenGL drivers will make a gigantic difference. To break it down:
1) The GCC compiler is less optimized than the Compilers for the x86 platform. This is the most CPU related issue, but is not actually the biggest reason for the difference. GCC 4.0 should greatly improve this. Compilers make massive differences.
2) Mac OS X is a preemtive multitasking environment. As such, nothing ever gets 100% of the CPU like on the PC. This is good and bad for obvious reasons. It's good for everything but Games.
3) OpenGL drivers are more optimized on the PC and have a more direct route around the OS. This is why Windows sucks at real time effects like CoreImage and CoreAudio, but their games are fast.
4) Graphics card drivers are optimized for certain games on the PC, and they aren't on the Mac. This means "cheats" are enabled to speed up rendering when the driver sees a specific game. Case in point is that nVidia cards run Doom3 faster than ATI cards, but ATI cards monkey stomp nVidia cards on every other game in the market right now.
It's never as simple as one component and it's definatly not just a hardware issue. From what I hear OS X 10.4 (and it's many planned point revisions) will GREATLY enhance game and OpenGL performance. So I think the great divide will be far norrower in the future.
Hiroshige said:
See my post below. You're only using games as a comparison. To fight fire with fire:
http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html
... plus, the poster above said he wants to know what a dual 2.7 will do against the current crop. There's no need, in most cases, to go beyond dual 2.5 to spank a PC. Even when they compare server chips and $5k to $10k super beast systems to a dual 2.5, it holds it's own. The only place they win hands down is in gaming, and there are clear ways the Mac can gain in this area.
The 2.5GHz needed liquid cooling to be reasonably quiet last year. Since then, IBM's production yields have bound to have improved to where they should be able to produce a G5 that can quietly run with air cooling alone. My question is how much have they improved and is it to the point that the 2.7GHz can get by with air cooling. Apple would love to get away from the liquid cooling systems since it seems they cannot get the manufacturer to guarantee the intergrity of their setups for more than a few years.daveL said:
As for the 2.3GHz machines being liquid cooled, the xserves aren't currently and it is a much smaller enclosure.
Don M. said:No doubt. Tempting to go into the old threads and make a list of the users that should be eating crow.
Thinksecret is more often right than wrong. There's a reason Apple wants to shut them down.
Best part were the people saying that the rumors weren't true and Apple was feeding TS "disinformation."
Comedy. Gold.
If Apple would change it's maketing plan to one of controlled release instead of no release, there would not be a TS and the rumor mill would shut down. I don't give a hoot about "this is what Steve does and such." This last two weeks has been a debacle for Apple and most of all for it's loyal customers who just want to purchase a computer to meet a need. If Apple was going to release the mother of all upgrades, thats one thing. But these upgrades to the PM and iMac are just that...upgrades. FGS let the users be aware so they can spend their money wisely. Now Amazon "jumps the gun" and everyone says Steve will be going bonkers. Good...go bonkers...he created the fisasco with his stupid secrecy about a simple product upgrade.
I will still buy a new iMac whenever Apple decides to "allow" us to find out what it contains and how much it will be. Other than that, Apple has lost a "fan" and once I get the machine...don't bother me until I need another one. The rumor mill and sites can continue to create noise and Steve will certainly help if he continues on this endless route.
BTW...I understand the PB G5 will be introduced three weeks from Sunday...the source failed to say which Sunday...what a crock!
NevadaJack said:
How many Apple products does Amazon sell for Apple?
I don't have any numbers, but I would guess that Amazon is probably one of Apples biggest customers since they may very well sell more Apple products than any other organization outside of the Apple itself (i.e. Apple Store).
There is also the likelyhood that more than a few of the sales Apple generates through Amazon are to Wintel users who might not visit an Apple Store.
In the real world, a company like Walmart has the clout to tell a manufacturer how to package a product or what lyrics to put on a music CD. The manufacturer is in no position to issue demands to the retailer in the case of Walmart. I can't imagine Apple's relationship is any different with Amazon than Tide's relationship with Walmart.